Which non-surgical specialty works out to the best hourly rate?

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FlatIsJustice

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Sure radiologists make 300-400k depending on location but they work 50-60 hours a week whereas ER attendings make 220-300k working only 30-40 hours a week.

Does anything beat ER for hourly rate?
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WedgeDawg said:
Isn't the answer always derm?
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Derm is pretty good hourly but I don't think it's as nuts as everyone thinks.

Most Derms probably work 40-50 hours per week for 381k = 8.46k per hour worked (Dividing average salary by average hours per week) (Derm also went from 339 to 381 from 2015 to 2016 according to medscape)
EM would be around 30-40 for 309k = 8.82k
Ortho would probably be 50-60k for 443k = 9.05k (443 seems a little low from the orthopedic surgeons I've met. Most seem closer to 500)

Note: These are rough averages (medscape) and obviously vary, but the myth that all dermatologists are working 3, 9-5 days a week with no call and clearing 400k a year with months of vacation just aren't true. There are outliers in every field who make a killing, but those aren't the norm.

EDIT: didn't realize the question said non surgical only
 
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I'm a first year derm attending. I make ~$400k ($350k + ~$50k bonus) and work ~36 hours per week.

Home call once every few months (for one month at a time). Last month I got two calls. Both for med refills.
 
Radio still does pretty well hourly. They also take 8-12 weeks vacation/yr so you have to factor that in also. Also as said above I'm not sure if hours alone is really a good measure of "work". It's a measure of your time there but is more leisurely or stressful depending on what you're doing.
 
username456789 said:
I'm a first year derm attending. I make ~$400k ($350k + ~$50k bonus) and work ~36 hours per week.

Home call once every few months (for one month at a time). Last month I got two calls. Both for med refills.
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Out of curiosity what is your practice set up? I've met a few dermatologists in single specialty groups and holy cow, they're making a lot of money and they aren't even partners.
 
Derm can make huge bucks if you go into cosmetics in a rich area and your patients are paying cash. People drop so much money on their skin for vanity it is literally insane and they probably need to see a psychiatrist instead.
 
Anything with a quick, high volume procedure fares well. Think cataracts for ophtho or c-scopes/EGD for GI. Derm makes a lot because their visits are short (i.e. high volume), and they frequently bill for multiple procedures/visit.

This is all well and good, until they nerf FFS and go to straight value-based payments or some other half-cocked payment scheme, and then we're all ****ed.
 
Dermpire said:
Out of curiosity what is your practice set up? I've met a few dermatologists in single specialty groups and holy cow, they're making a lot of money and they aren't even partners.
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Non-partner private practice office. Derm only, not a multispecialty group. Very little cosmetics if any.
 
username456789 said:
I'm a first year derm attending. I make ~$400k ($350k + ~$50k bonus) and work ~36 hours per week.

Home call once every few months (for one month at a time). Last month I got two calls. Both for med refills.
Click to expand...

What precludes derms from working closer to a 50-60 hr week? Is it solely preference? Or is there some unforeseen economic disincentive that I'm missing?
 
I would go into derm if I didn't have to look at skin all day
 
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Psychiatry. Those guys work 40 hours a week and make 200k a year. You do the math
 
Anicetus said:
Psychiatry. Those guys work 40 hours a week and make 200k a year. You do the math
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Comes to 100 and some change an hour for most of them.

EM can break 200 easily on locums. I've even heard of one guy that won't get out of bed for less than 400, but he works in the sticks.
 
username456789 said:
I'm a first year derm attending. I make ~$400k ($350k + ~$50k bonus) and work ~36 hours per week.

Home call once every few months (for one month at a time). Last month I got two calls. Both for med refills.
Click to expand...

You're a first year derm attending? How long did you practice before you became an attending?
 
Mad Jack said:
Comes to 100 and some change an hour for most of them.

EM can break 200 easily on locums. I've even heard of one guy that won't get out of bed for less than 400, but he works in the sticks.
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you can break 200 at your regular job in the 'burbs with smart nurses and cute scribes and a bunch of those restaurants with the goofy decorations on the walls. the STICKS will pay 500 for short notice locums grinding it out in the pit
 
Anicetus said:
Psychiatry. Those guys work 40 hours a week and make 200k a year. You do the math
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Okay... 200/40=5k per hour worked. It's the most poorly paid specialty anybody has mentioned so far.

If you're going into psychiatry, you'd better have another gig lined up on the side. I know I am.
 
I'm a little lost.. but are y'all mentioning these $400K salary WITH benefits or without? It is an employee salary or independent contractor?
 
sazerac said:
Okay... 200/40=5k per hour worked. It's the most poorly paid specialty anybody has mentioned so far.

If you're going into psychiatry, you'd better have another gig lined up on the side. I know I am.
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because that 200 000 just isn't enough to live on??

What on earth does the other 95% do...
 
I'm a Psych resident in the NYC area.

I know Adult Psychiatrists that charge cash only: $300-$400/hr. Child Psychiatrists charge: $500-$700/hour. 45-50 hours/week. Do the math.

Of course, this is NYC. You can't charge this type of money in a smalltown midwest. But there is a lot of scope in Psych if you are in NYC/LA/SF with patients wanting cash only. And psych is quickly becoming mainstream, give it 10 years and it will be demand demand demand, and huge shortage of psych. So simple economics determines your price....

200k is the low end. I'm getting offers of 300k to 350k (granted these are 'undesirable' jobs). But the average I've seen is 250k to 275k for 40 hour weeks. Not bad for salary job. But if you want big bucks, head to a big city on the coasts and hustle, cash only practice. Your salary will easily be 400-500k.

And you guys keep forgetting, its not only how much you make. Also take into consideration Malpractice/Overhead costs. Malpractice for Psych is around 8-10k in NYC. For reference, OBGYN = 140kish.

And overhead is also very low.

Just my 2 cents,
 
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Blitz2006 said:
I'm a Psych resident in the NYC area.

Malpractice for Psych is around 8-10k in NYC. For reference, OBGYN = 140kish.
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140k malpractice??? How much do they get paid?
 
y123 said:
140k malpractice??? How much do they get paid?
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From what I heard, here in NYC, 400ish. But I'm no expert on obgyn salaries.

My point is that people get too obsessed with pay, and forget about other factors like cost of living, malpractice, overheads, number of hours you work.

Sure general surgeons here in the New York area make 400-500, but they also crush 60 hour weeks. This is why specialities like derm and ENT are the best. I've researched all the specialities, but I honestly think psych is a hidden gem.

And also keep job market in mind. Psych you can find a job anywhere you want pretty much. Radiology, pathology has pretty rough job market. Even other specialities like cards, ophtho, tighter..

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
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You can make $300K+ as a Hospitalist... just depends on location..

I have uncles clearing $450K in FM and IM..... dudes are playing golf while they are on call.

One just copped a new $200K Benz and the other is building a huge house on a golf course. You can say they are doing pretty damn well.

Primary care pays... no matter what SDN nerds on here say.

While everybody is jizzing in their pants over derm and surgical spots... primary care pays.

EM pays as well... limted hours and clear $400K with no call.

I personally shadowed an EM doc who would pick up extra shifts at urgent cares and get paid $170/hour to sleep BESIDES his gig at the hospital where he quoted earning "more than $350/hour". He only saw 8 patients over a 12 hour period when I shadowed him and he is ballin' out.
 
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Blitz2006 said:
I'm a Psych resident in the NYC area.

I know Adult Psychiatrists that charge cash only: $300-$400/hr. Child Psychiatrists charge: $500-$700/hour. 45-50 hours/week. Do the math.

Of course, this is NYC. You can't charge this type of money in a smalltown midwest. But there is a lot of scope in Psych if you are in NYC/LA/SF with patients wanting cash only. And psych is quickly becoming mainstream, give it 10 years and it will be demand demand demand, and huge shortage of psych. So simple economics determines your price....

200k is the low end. I'm getting offers of 300k to 350k (granted these are 'undesirable' jobs). But the average I've seen is 250k to 275k for 40 hour weeks. Not bad for salary job. But if you want big bucks, head to a big city on the coasts and hustle, cash only practice. Your salary will easily be 400-500k.

And you guys keep forgetting, its not only how much you make. Also take into consideration Malpractice/Overhead costs. Malpractice for Psych is around 8-10k in NYC. For reference, OBGYN = 140kish.

And overhead is also very low.

Just my 2 cents,
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Yeah but the patients are not for everybody. I don't get how people do not understand this. You better love psych to do it... just like you better love surgery to do that as well.
 
DetectiveAlonzo said:
Yeah but the patients are not for everybody. I don't get how people do not understand this. You better love psych to do it... just like you better love surgery to do that as well.
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I agree with you.

But medical students don't get proper exposure to psych. Most spend 4 weeks in inpatient unit and that's it. That's only a fraction of psych. Most med students have no clue of all the subpecialities in psych :

Child
Forensics - work in jails
Sleep medicine - polysomnographys
Pain - can do epidural and scrub in OR to do spinal cord stimulators
Addiction - work in suboxone or methadone clinics
Geriatric- lots of neuroimaging and dementia
Neuropsychiatry - can do brain stimulation like ECT/runs, neuro imaging
Consult Liasion/ER, - work closely with other specialists

Psych isn't just treating 'crazies' in a locked unit 8 hours a day.

Also, I personally would rather spend my days doing cool brain stimulation or epidural and nerve blocks than primary care stuff, like check hba1cs and lipid profiles all day. I would be bored out of my mind. But again, that's just personal preference.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
Blitz2006 said:
I agree with you.

But medical students don't get proper exposure to psych. Most spend 4 weeks in inpatient unit and that's it. That's only a fraction of psych. Most med students have no clue of all the subpecialities in psych :

Child
Forensics - work in jails
Sleep medicine - polysomnographys
Pain - can do epidural and scrub in OR to do spinal cord stimulators
Addiction - work in suboxone or methadone clinics
Geriatric- lots of neuroimaging and dementia
Neuropsychiatry - can do brain stimulation like ECT/runs, neuro imaging
Consult Liasion/ER, - work closely with other specialists

Psych isn't just treating 'crazies' in a locked unit 8 hours a day.

Also, I personally would rather spend my days doing cool brain stimulation or epidural and nerve blocks than primary care stuff, like check hba1cs and lipid profiles all day. I would be bored out of my mind.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
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Definitely agree with you. Glad you found a field you love.

Different strokes for different folks.
 
OP... can't forget about Anesthesia.

Buddy of mine showed me offers for $450K for 50-60 hours a week on the California coast... private practice. 9 weeks of vacation.

Jobs are out there.
 
DetectiveAlonzo said:
OP... can't forget about Anesthesia.

Buddy of mine showed me offers for $450K for 50-60 hours a week on the California coast... private practice. 9 weeks of vacation.

Jobs are out there.
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For anesthesia jobs use gasworks.com

But anesthesia is crashing last few years in the match statistics. CRNAs are pushing them out...

If you go the anesthesia route you might as well do pain... Crash an easy 500k in pp. 750k if you hustle.


DetectiveAlonzo said:
Definitely agree with you. Glad you found a field you love.

Different strokes for different folks.
Click to expand...


Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
Blitz2006 said:
For anesthesia jobs use gasworks.com

But anesthesia is crashing last few years in the match statistics. CRNAs are pushing them out...

If you go the anesthesia route you might as well do pain... Crash an easy 500k in pp. 750k if you hustle.





Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Which is the secret... because GAS is becoming super easy to get into now....but CRNAs will NEVER replace gas docs... ever... sure you may have to work with them... but if you wanna make $$$ and do your job and come home... Gas is where it's at for many people.

Many CRNAs do NOT want the extra training... simple... and many places DO NOT want to hire them... atleast according to my buddy.. who looked into all of this before he matched and finally got a job...

will it change? sure... but not for another 40-50 years..

Do a fellowship in cards , OB, or pain... and you can cash outtttttttt.
 
Agreed. Just make sure to do fellowship if you do gas to make yourself marketable.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
Psai said:
What's wrong with the gas match statistics?
It's only getting tougher at the top.
Click to expand...

https://www.aamc.org/services/eras/stats/359278/stats.html

Check out the residency app data

Since 2009, number of applicants to Gas is a roughly around 1600...steady, despite having a growing number of spots. Unlike all the other specialities which have grown over the past few years (except for Rads, until this past year)
 
avalon10 said:
DetectiveAlonzo-

If someone is earning $450k and spends $200k on a Benz...

That person is just not smart.
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Umm.. not if that person has been stackin' that paper for close to a decade, has no loans, and has some side investments and lives in a region that has high demand for them.

These folks don't live by the "save 20%, spend 80%" that the majority of Americans do.

These guys have saved for years and are very frugal with their money but actually spend it once they realize they have enough in their bank account to retire off of.

I'm pretty sure they can afford it. lol
 
avalon10 said:
DetectiveAlonzo-

If someone is earning $450k and spends $200k on a Benz, whether it's your uncle or whoever...

That person is just not smart.
Click to expand...
To be fair you can probably find a garage version used for half the price or less with less than 10k miles on it as well if you look around.
 
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