Which school would you pick and why?

[Dr. Chiquita]

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Hypothetically speaking, if someone were to get into both Tulane and U-Texas at Houston, which school do you think this person should go IF MONEY WASN'T THE ISSUE? I just wanted to hear any feedback on their reputations, residency prospects, etc.

U-Texas at Houston seems to place almost everybody into Texas hospitals, do you think that's just because the students choose to stay in Texas or due to its lack of reputation across the country?

I am torn between the two. 🙁

 

[Spitting Camel]

I am torn between the two.

Haha So it's not really hypothetical is it? You crack me up!

 

[Optimist]

Originally posted by AlreadyInDebt
Haha So it's not really hypothetical is it? You crack me up!

Hypothetical for most people, is it not?

 

[Dr. Chiquita]

I'm not really torn between the two. It's someone I really really care about. So it's kinda my problem as well.

If you look at my profile, I haven't even applied yet. 😉

Any help would be nice here. 🙂

 

[Spitting Camel]

Originally posted by Optimist
Hypothetical for most people, is it not?

I didn't think of it that way... you are absolutely right!! Sorry, JHS 🙂

 

[chapinsita]

Originally posted by JHS
I haven't even applied yet. 😉

I say you shouldn't worry about it until you're in. The whole process is such a crap shoot that you never really know. Tulane didn't even give me an interview, yet I'm in at some higher ranked schools. Take it one day at a time, and at this point think more about where you would like to end up after med school. Do you want to stay in Texas? Or would you rather get out and get a different perspective? Think about it, but don't stress just yet!

 

[HollyJ]

UTH places a lot of their grads in the TMC, not just in Texas. The med center is a big draw for a lot of people, and I'm inclined to think that most people at UTH choose to stay because the med center offers such a huge range of opportunity.

As far as rankings go, they're really, really similar -- Tulane is tied for 54, UTH is tied for 56. Take this for what it's worth, but this seems to indicate that their reputations are pretty comparable.

If it were me, I'd go to UTH, just because of the TMC. On the other hand, I'm a Houston girl, so I might be biased.

I think it all comes down to personal preference. Both schools are great, and both will get you into good residencies.

 

[elias514]

You would be INSANE to not attend UT Houston med school. The reason why students stay in Texas is because there are so many excellent residency programs in Texas, especially at the Texas Medical Center. Are you aware of the fact that the TMC is widely regarded by physicians as one of the finest medical centers in the WORLD. No ****, man. The place is freakin incredible. Top ranked programs in so many different specialties. If you want to go into oncology, you got MD Anderson, which is the best cancer center in the country. People fly in from all over the world to get treatment at MD Anderson. If you're interested in pediatrics, you got the Texas Children's Hospital, which is easily in the top five for pediatrics. Amazing place. For cardiology, especially cardiovascular surgery, again you can't beat the TMC. The list goes on and on. BILLIONS of dollars are invested in the TMC, and the money keeps on coming.

Do the smart thing--go to UT Houston med school.

 

[BigRedPingpong]

I would pick U mich because it turns out UMich is the BIGGEST medical complex in the world (MSAR, 2003). U-tex-Houston is not the largest medical complex in the world FYI JHS. So there! Taaaaaaaaaa!

BTW, I got an A- in BIOCHEM 320. In your FACE!

 

[BigRedPingpong]

Originally posted by elias514
You would be INSANE to not attend UT Houston med school. The reason why students stay in Texas is because there are so many excellent residency programs in Texas, especially at the Texas Medical Center. Are you aware of the fact that the TMC is widely regarded by physicians as one of the finest medical centers in the WORLD. No ****, man. The place is freakin incredible. Top ranked programs in so many different specialties. If you want to go into oncology, you got MD Anderson, which is the best cancer center in the country. People fly in from all over the world to get treatment at MD Anderson. If you're interested in pediatrics, you got the Texas Children's Hospital, which is easily in the top five for pediatrics. Amazing place. For cardiology, especially cardiovascular surgery, again you can't beat the TMC. The list goes on and on. BILLIONS of dollars are invested in the TMC, and the money keeps on coming.

Do the smart thing--go to UT Houston med school.

Thats funny that US news doesn't rank Texas' medical center as even top 15 (honor roll), yet you have put it up on such a high pedestal. If it had such high rankings in all those specialties, it should have made honor roll. Even vanderbilit made honor roll.

 

[HollyJ]

Hi BigRedPingpong,

U-tex-Houston is not the largest medical complex in the world FYI JHS.

Uh, yeah. There is no U-tex-Houston medical complex. That might explain a lot. By the way, the the UMich center is great, but in point of fact, it sees a little less than 2 million patients a year (according to its website), while the TMC sees about 6 million. The UMich center is the largest medical school system, but the TMC is much, much bigger.

The reason that the Texas Medical Center isn't on the US News Honor Roll is because it isn't a traditional hospital center. All of the hospitals are ranked separately because they are independantly administrated. Each of the hospitals in the TMC has its own specialties, which is why none of them are ranked highly in that many areas.

The TMC has six hospitals that rank in the top 10 in their specialties according to US News, and 2 that rank highly in more than 3 areas. The areas included cancer, ENT, opthamology, cardiology, neurology and neurosurgery, rehabilitation, psychiatry, pediatrics, gynecology, and urology.

On top of the leading hospitals, the TMC also has a whole lot of research institutions, two medical schools, a ton of allied health, two giant trauma centers, and a huge urban and rural population to boot. It gets almost 6 million patients every year. Also, it's just really, really cool. If you want to see a whole lot of stuff, Houston's not a bad place to be.

 

[Dr. Chiquita]

HollyJ and elias: Thanks for the insightful info! So you guys think that UT-Houston has as good or even better reputation than Tulane. And as far as residency goes, students prefer to stay at TMC and it's not the case that they are unable to match into hospitals in NYC or Cali due to Houston's lack of presence in terms of reputation in the Northeast areas. Not saying that NYC and Cali hospitals are better, but I know this person would rather settle down in NYC and Cali.

Ping: Taaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! 😉
My 'Ta' is longer. 😉 In your face!!!


Anybody else?
Can I hear from someone who thinks Tulane better and why?

 

[elias514]

If you're interested in settling down ultimately in the Northeast, then you ought to go to med school up there. If you go to med school in the NE, it will be much easier for you to make connections with attendings and residency directors at teaching hospitals in the NE. These connections are invaluable in securing residency spots; to be sure, numbers are important (grades, Step 1 score, evaluations, etc.), but familiarity is equally important. Residency directors, generally speaking, prefer to select applicants whom they know. If you do your residency in the NE, chances are you'll end up practicing there, because residency location is the BEST predictor of where you'll end up practicing.

The bottom line: go to a school in the Northeast. Forget Tulane and UT Houston.

 

[Dr. Chiquita]

I don't think this person would have the option of attending schools in NE. He will if he could. Most likely he has to choose between Tulane and UT-Houston, come April.

Which school do you think he should choose? From looking at Tulane's residency match list, it looked like they send their students across the country versus UT-Houston, which is Texas-heavy. But then like you guys mentioned, there is always this preference factor, which skews UT-Houston's match list to being Texas-heavy. 😕

 

[elias514]

He has yet to apply, so he still has the option of applying to schools in the Northeast next year.

There are so many good schools in the Northeast, some of which are not ultra-competitive with respect to admissions. Don't feel obligated to apply to the Ivy League med schools up there. Research the private schools up there, because you'll have a much better shot of gaining admission to a private school than a public (the reason is fairly obvious--public schools have significant in-state quotas to fill that are usually on the order of 75-90%). In fact, you'll have an excellent shot at many of these private schools because the majority of students in the South tend to focus on gaining admission to schools in the South. Since every medical school tries to create a diverse class, with "diversity" encompassing geographic location, you'll have a good shot at filling the "Southern Niche" at a med school in the Northeast.

Good luck next year!

 

[elias514]

I think that the reputations of Tulane and UT Houston are currently about the same. However, keep in mind the fact that UT Houston is relatively new school. It's only been around (correct me if I'm wrong) about 20 years or so. I strongly suspect that UT Houston is going to swiftly climb the US News and World Report rankings, simply because of its affiliation with the Texas Medical Center. If you disagree with my suspicion, then you ought to investigate the history of Baylor. The TMC has worked wonders for it.

 

[HollyJ]

I just wouldn't worry about residency matching at this point, unless your friend has a very specific program that he wants to match to. Either Houston or Tulane will be fine for matching anywhere.

 

[BigRedPingpong]

Originally posted by HollyJ
Hi BigRedPingpong,



Uh, yeah. There is no U-tex-Houston medical complex. That might explain a lot. By the way, the the UMich center is great, but in point of fact, it sees a little less than 2 million patients a year (according to its website), while the TMC sees about 6 million. The UMich center is the largest medical school system, but the TMC is much, much bigger.

The reason that the Texas Medical Center isn't on the US News Honor Roll is because it isn't a traditional hospital center. All of the hospitals are ranked separately because they are independantly administrated. Each of the hospitals in the TMC has its own specialties, which is why none of them are ranked highly in that many areas.

The TMC has six hospitals that rank in the top 10 in their specialties according to US News, and 2 that rank highly in more than 3 areas. The areas included cancer, ENT, opthamology, cardiology, neurology and neurosurgery, rehabilitation, psychiatry, pediatrics, gynecology, and urology.

On top of the leading hospitals, the TMC also has a whole lot of research institutions, two medical schools, a ton of allied health, two giant trauma centers, and a huge urban and rural population to boot. It gets almost 6 million patients every year. Also, it's just really, really cool. If you want to see a whole lot of stuff, Houston's not a bad place to be.

Ummm.... Perfect example to counter your rebuttal,

Check this: UPMC 5 hospitals, Presby, Monte, Magee-women's, children's, and one more (iforgot the name). Yet pitt made the honor roll. Also, each hospital individually ranked

Yo, Jhs: Beware of biased answers from students attending UT. The number of pts a place sees does not correlate with "goodness" of hospital. Mayo doesn't see a ton either but people from all over the world are on the waitlist to be treated there.

 

[elias514]

Look, Mr. Pingpong, the best indicator of quality regarding hospitals is what physicians think. Ask any current physician what they think about the Texas Medical Center. Ask them. You're gonna hear a lot of praise for that place, especially from physicians in Texas. The place is amazing, honor roll or not. You're mistaken if you think otherwise.

And, once again, I invite you to do some research on the TMC regarding the quality of its various hospitals. You will be very surprised!

 

[Dr. Chiquita]

elias,

this person that I started this thread for is applying this cycle and has been accepted to Tulane and waiting for UT schools to give him decisions. (all UT's make decisions by Feb 1st.) He wasn't interviewed at Southwestern, but he was interviewed at all the other UT's and he ranked Houston as his number one choice on the match. Unfortunately, no word from any of the Northeast schools, nadda. He had a really good interview at Houston, so he thinks he will match there. So most likely, it comes down to Houston or Tulane.

 

[BigRedPingpong]

Originally posted by elias514
Look, Mr. Pingpong, the best indicator of quality regarding hospitals is what physicians think. Ask any current physician what they think about the Texas Medical Center. Ask them. You're gonna hear a lot of praise for that place, especially from physicians in Texas. The place is amazing, honor roll or not. You're mistaken if you think otherwise.

And, once again, I invite you to do some research on the TMC regarding the quality of its various hospitals. You will be very surprised!

MISTER pingpong? How do you know it's not a MS.? A little sexist are we?

Also, I never said Texas sucked. I just didn't think it is the God of all hospitals and shouldn't be placed on that kind of pedestal.

 

[Giving My .02]

The reason UT-H places so many people in Texas is because they must accept 90% Texas residents, so a lot of the people want to stay in Texas and practice. Houston is a nice complex, and honestly the UT hospitals are world renown. Herman was spotlighted on national television during summer 2002 & MD Anderson, lets just say #1 cancer hospital in the world. Almost everyone goes here from the U.S. When I went to church in Houston, there were families from all over the U.S. I met who were coming to Houston just for MD Anderson. It has a great repuation.

 

[HollyJ]

Originally posted by BigRedPingpong
Ummm.... Perfect example to counter your rebuttal,

Check this: UPMC 5 hospitals, Presby, Monte, Magee-women's, children's, and one more (iforgot the name). Yet pitt made the honor roll. Also, each hospital individually ranked

Yo, Jhs: Beware of biased answers from students attending UT. The number of pts a place sees does not correlate with "goodness" of hospital. Mayo doesn't see a ton either but people from all over the world are on the waitlist to be treated there.

That's incorrect. Pitt is ranked as "University of Pittsburgh Medical Center" (see here, number 12), so it's on the honor roll. TMC hospitals are not ranked as a group AT ALL, only separately. Therefore, TMC as an entity is not eligible for the Honor Roll. God. I don't know what your deal is about the TMC.

By the way, I don't go to UT. Also, number of patients seen does not necessarily determine quality, although I think that larger numbers can contribute to the breadth of your education. I mentioned the number of patients since you incorrectly stated that the UMich med center was larger than the TMC.

 

[FowlersGap]

Originally posted by BigRedPingpong
I would pick U mich because it turns out UMich is the BIGGEST medical complex in the world (MSAR, 2003). U-tex-Houston is not the largest medical complex in the world FYI JHS. So there! Taaaaaaaaaa!

BTW, I got an A- in BIOCHEM 320. In your FACE!

i hate to burst your bubble homie but UCLA holds that honor; the UCLA medical center is the second largest building/complex in the country...what comes first?...no not michigan's "complex" but the PENTAGON!

 

[greggth]

I think U Texas Southwestern is a good school if you are interested in research.

 

[::Seabass::]

as a Tulane undergrad, and UT Houston med student, I would stay the decision is obvious 😉

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by BigRedPingpong
Ummm.... Perfect example to counter your rebuttal,

Check this: UPMC 5 hospitals, Presby, Monte, Magee-women's, children's, and one more (iforgot the name). Yet pitt made the honor roll. Also, each hospital individually ranked

Yo, Jhs: Beware of biased answers from students attending UT. The number of pts a place sees does not correlate with "goodness" of hospital. Mayo doesn't see a ton either but people from all over the world are on the waitlist to be treated there.

Actually you couldnt be more incorrect. As HollyJ pointed out, those schools are all under the auspices of a central organization- UPitt school of Medicine.

The TMC is a diverse group of autonomous hospitals with lots of affiliations, but they each have their own management structure. Thus, they are functionally seperate and not considered a part of Baylor or UTH nor their finances (even though their staff are chiefs in those hospitals and students do residencies there).

And the TMC isnt unified in the same way Cleveland Clinic is (which previously did not have its own med school).

So the TMC is a unique case, and probably one of the reasons its the largest in the world is probably because there are several autonomous institutions that manage their own growth, as opposed to having resources controlled by some central authority.

Case in point, look at each individual hospital rankings. Youll notice that autonomous TMC institutions such as MD Anderson, TX Childrens, Messinger Clinic, Methodist, and St Lukes are at the top of a variety of fields. They are also each independent financial institutions. Yet there are still institutional interlinkages, for example the chief of pediatrics at TCH is a baylor prof, but TCH is the nation's largest independent pediatric hospital.

So you wont find TMC or Baylor or UTH listed for overall honor roll, but if you look at the specific specialties, you will see top ranked programs from each of these hospitals in EVERY SINGLE field. Since they are specialized as such, and not part of a unified system, they wont make the honor roll, but the programs there and the educational linkages are there, they just each have independent managment and financial structures.

 

[Gleevec]

TMC Hospital Rankings (from US News 2003)

Cancer: #1 MD Anderson
Digestive Disorders: None
Ear, Nose, Throat: #10 MD Anderson
Eyes: #13 Methodist
Geriatrics: #35 Methodist
Gynecology: #4 MD Anderson
Heart/Heart Surgery: #8 St Luke's
Hormonal Disorders: None
Kidney: #38 Methodist
Neurology/Neurosurgery: #11 Methodist
Orthopedics: #33 Methodist
Pediatrics: #5 Texas Children's Hospital
Psychiatry: #5 Menninger Clinic
Rehabilitation: #2 TIRR: The Institute for Rehabilitation and Research
Respiratory: None
Rheumatology: None
Urology: #9 Methodist

If they were all part of the same administrative system that would be quite the hospital system. The hospitals are connected in terms of professors and equipment and patients, but they each have their own financial and administrative structure and thus dont fall under the guise of one medical center, making it hard to rank it as a whole. You can do rotations and research at any school in the TMC though as a med student, and there are tons of interinstitutional affiliations.

So I did the calculation for shiz and giggles and according to their point system (top programs get 2 pts, below that get 1) I got 23 total points, ranking TMC 5th overall in the Honor Roll tied with Cleveland Clinic and just ahead of Duke.

So Im not trying to say that we should add TMC and that it would be #5 for sure, but as a medical center, it is definitely up there with the big guns, and would be a top 8 medical center overall at the absolute worst (I said top 15 program = 2 pts, they dont define what a top program is though). So its pretty good 😉

Since there are a lot of affiliations academically you can do rotations and research anywhere quite easily, so there is a lot to be accessed in the TMC between Baylor and UTH med students. And I am REALLY surprised that as a medical center it actually would be ranked higher than such awesome schools as Duke, WashU, UCSF, UM, and Penn. Not that I know enough to judge the accuracy of such a claim, but according to US News' own formula for ranking med centers this would be the case.

I really dont buy into this US News bullcrap too much, but since BigRed seems to think US News rankings are the end-all-be-all of an institutions overall quality, I felt the need to provide some quantitative evidence to show how incorrect the rankings ****** were on this one. 😛

 

[spumoni620]

bigredpingpong,

you irritate me. try researching your facts before influencing another premed's opinion, or at least show the humility to know when you're wrong. 🙄 Gleevec and HollyJ bring up valid points; the TMC is an incredible place, the largest medical center of its type in the world, and offers invaluable opportunities for students lucky enough to study there.



Info about TX Med center

 

[nykka3]

Originally posted by HollyJ
UTH places a lot of their grads in the TMC, not just in Texas. The med center is a big draw for a lot of people, and I'm inclined to think that most people at UTH choose to stay because the med center offers such a huge range of opportunity.

As far as rankings go, they're really, really similar -- Tulane is tied for 54, UTH is tied for 56. Take this for what it's worth, but this seems to indicate that their reputations are pretty comparable.

If it were me, I'd go to UTH, just because of the TMC. On the other hand, I'm a Houston girl, so I might be biased.

I think it all comes down to personal preference. Both schools are great, and both will get you into good residencies.

hey hollyJ,
how do you know about the ranking of these two schools? how can i find out about rankings past the top 20 on US News and world reports?

 

[No Egrets]

Nobody here has mentioned the cost difference so far-- if this person is a Texas resident, then it seems like UTHouston wins hands-down with a tuition of, what, like $8,000 per year? I don't know what Tulane's is, but I'm sure it's at least 3 times that, right?

As for getting out-of-state residencies, I really don't believe that going to UTH severly limits your possibilities. At my UTH interview they gave me a copy of their match list, and I was surprised by the number of graduates who went out of state for residency. Glancing through the '03 matches, here are some examples:

Johns Hopkins - psychiatry
Albert Einstein - general surgery
UNC Chapel Hill - IM/peds
Vanderbilt - prelim. surgery
NYU - prelim. medicine
UC Irvine - OB/gyn
Duke - ortho
GW - IM

and that's only through last names starting with D. Oregon, Emory, Hawaii, UCSD, Wake Forest... the list goes on. Even some who went to Tulane if that's your thing.

So I wouldn't go in thinking that UTH is a one-way ticket to a lifetime in Texas. Of course many of these graduates stayed in TX for residency (and you have the occasional random thing like "Valley Baptist Medical Center - family practice" here and there)... But I would say this list is definitely nothing to scoff at.

For anyone interested on more specifics about this list, feel free to PM me.

 

[vtucci]

I understand that a lot of Tulane students do not do as well on the boards so I'd probably lean toward UT.

But I have heard it is a great place and I am sure that you will do well if you study.

 

[Northerner]

Originally posted by Optimist
ACCEPTED
Believe in yourself, for if you don't no one else can and no one else will.
~ The Optimist

I believe in yourself too, Optimist.

*high-five*

 

[HollyJ]

Originally posted by nykka3
hey hollyJ,
how do you know about the ranking of these two schools? how can i find out about rankings past the top 20 on US News and world reports?

Theoretically, you have to buy the premium US News subscription. I'm pretty sure that someone has posted the entire list, so you might just want to google it.

 

[deleted36260]

Originally posted by BigRedPingpong
MISTER pingpong? How do you know it's not a MS.? A little sexist are we?

Also, I never said Texas sucked. I just didn't think it is the God of all hospitals and shouldn't be placed on that kind of pedestal.

Texas Medical Center is comprised of just over 60 facilities 🙂 It's not one hospital 🙂

 

[deleted36260]

I may be biased, but until I started looking towards medicine as MY career, I ran a business that put me in the Texas Medical Center 4 days a week.
If nothing else, UT at H will get you into a facility that you will NOT be dissapointed with. The medical center is a never ending wonder to me, and the atmosphere it creates is nothing short of exilerating!

Assuming that all other things are equal, UT at H will offer a city largely built around it's medical community, meaning instand networking for the future.

I presently live about 2 hours from Houston (moved for family reasons, and tofinish school) and will be returning if possible for med school. 🙂

Good luck on yoru friend's decision!

 

[pekq]

I heard from a fellow applicant at my UR interview that Tulane has one of the best international medicine program. Not sure if that's true but if your friend likes studying abroad, that might be something to look into.

 

[HollyJ]

I heard from a fellow applicant at my UR interview that Tulane has one of the best international medicine program. Not sure if that's true but if your friend likes studying abroad, that might be something to look into.

Caveat: "international medicine" doesn't mean medicine in, say, Paris. It means medicine in Haiti or the Congo. International medicine = medicine in tropical and developing places.

I didn't know that before I started looking into it. 🙂