Who to choose for eLORs

[ntaylor2013]

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I have a couple of general questions concerning eLORS. First, I am unsure how many veterinarians people usually use for their evaluations. I could have all three be vets but would it be better to choose a professor?

If I choose a professor do you think it would be more beneficial for it to be one in my major of study even though an anthropology professor would give be one of the strongest recommendations?

Feel free to post any other questions regarding eLORs!

And thank you in advance for your help.

 

[equineconstant]

It sounds like you're only planning to submit 3 letters. I don't know where you're applying so maybe your schools wouldn't read more than 3 letters or something, but VMCAS lets you submit up to 6.

Personally, I'm planning to have 3 vets write me recommendations. This is partly because I'm applying to Cornell and they need letters of recommendation from "up to 5 most significant animal/vet experiences." I'm still trying to figure out my other three. 😉

 

[ntaylor2013]

Most of the schools I am applying to require 3. I was thinking about adding in a 4th if they want to read it. However, from other things I have read you dont really want them to feel overwhelmed by a ton of recommendations so I guess I will just choose those who will write the best ones. ?? who knows if this is accurate though.

 

[Abnerrs]

From what I've learned it would be beneficial to make sure you have a professor. And I have been told a science professor would be best but as long as it's a professor you should be good. And yeah, you can do more than 3. I am using the 2 vets I worked for the longest and my 2 pre-vet advisors, one who happens to also be a vet. But this is all based on my top choice schools bear in mind.

 

[equineconstant]

Probably just depends on the school. Like I said, Cornell wants a lot. Missouri won't read more than 4. UPenn will read everything you send but advise not to "water it down" with too many. If you're only going for three, I'd probably suggest getting 3 letter-writers who can speak to different parts of you. Definitely at least one should be a vet, but maybe you could get your anthropology professor to write one and...an employer or something? Or a professor in a science department?

 

[LetItSnow]

Most of the schools I am applying to require 3. I was thinking about adding in a 4th if they want to read it. However, from other things I have read you dont really want them to feel overwhelmed by a ton of recommendations so I guess I will just choose those who will write the best ones. ?? who knows if this is accurate though.

The key is having three awesome ones. I'm not on anyone's admissions comittee, but if I were I wouldn't see one bit of difference between three awesome ones and three awesome plus a fourth mediocre.

And really, once you've hit three awesome ones ... any more are superfluous.

I would really only bother to go past three if you're applying somewhere that requires three vets AND you happen to have someone really important who isn't a vet who will speak incredibly highly of you.

But that's just me. I know some people feel lots of the "but they allow six! I must have six!" pressure. Silly gunners.

 

[equineconstant]

I was having trouble keeping it down to six (well, when I thought I needed an employer letter too)! But it's not 'cause I'm a silly gunner. I blame it all on Cornell.

 

[mooshagen]

Hi guys! First of all, good luck on the application cycle, and deep breaths! These are all great concerns. 🙂 The admissions game is a bit of a crap shoot, and there really is no tell tale way to do things. However, I will just let you know what schools told me - Missouri in particular said they would read all six of my letters but really said they wanted them to be veterinarians (the best kind) or shelter owners, etc. They were blunt when they said professors did not matter very much at all. I had three vets, one professor (also my academic advisor and research advisor), an equestrian trainer, and a wildlife rescue owner write for me. I would use 6 if you feel you have 6 people who would write awesome letters. If you feel you have three awesome ones, then just stick with three. I was a bit like equineconstant in where I was kind of freaking out that I had a limit (especially when med schools get to submit a lot more!). Anyway, quality is very much more important than quantity. And I like the advice about writers who will portray different aspects of you. That's good advice. However, I tried to follow - veterinarians are most important, and I think that helped. Schools like to hear from vets because they are the people who understand the profession and can tell them if you'd fit into it well.

 

[Abnerrs]

Hi guys! First of all, good luck on the application cycle, and deep breaths! These are all great concerns. 🙂 The admissions game is a bit of a crap shoot, and there really is no tell tale way to do things. However, I will just let you know what schools told me - Missouri in particular said they would read all six of my letters but really said they wanted them to be veterinarians (the best kind) or shelter owners, etc. They were blunt when they said professors did not matter very much at all. I had three vets, one professor (also my academic advisor and research advisor), an equestrian trainer, and a wildlife rescue owner write for me. I would use 6 if you feel you have 6 people who would write awesome letters. If you feel you have three awesome ones, then just stick with three. I was a bit like equineconstant in where I was kind of freaking out that I had a limit (especially when med schools get to submit a lot more!). Anyway, quality is very much more important than quantity. And I like the advice about writers who will portray different aspects of you. That's good advice. However, I tried to follow - veterinarians are most important, and I think that helped. Schools like to hear from vets because they are the people who understand the profession and can tell them if you'd fit into it well.

Blah. That is really frustrating. It would be nice if the schools could just settle on a set list of crap they want. Wishful thinking 🙄 WSU, OSU "advised" a professor and Penn told me they require it. Jeebus. The only thing you can do, and this seems to always be the advise that crops up, is check with the schools you plan on applying to ,see what they want and tailor your app to those schools.

 

[equineconstant]

Again, I have no clue how people apply to 11 or 12 schools. How can you possibly "tailor your app" to that many?

 

[Abnerrs]

Again, I have no clue how people apply to 11 or 12 schools. How can you possibly "tailor your app" to that many?

You can't really. I applied to 14 last year and I just did the very best I could. This year I'm definitely parring it down so that I can focus on the schools I REALLY want.

 

[irrelephant23]

I'm planning on applying to 12 and I can definitely feel the pressure! I've listed all the things that the schools are looking for in the PS, and I must say it's a lot! Fortunately, I will only be working from now on and not taking classes so that is helpful! I honestly don't know how I did this last year when I was working and a full-time student. Maybe I can blame that on why I'm reapplying! 🙄

 

[Tco87]

I could be wrong, but I thought most schools REQUIRED that one LOR be from a vet and one be from a professor or academic adviser? Something to keep in mind when you're picking people, what is this person's reputation when it comes to submitting letters on time? There were two professors at my undergrad who were notorious for not submitting letters until you had pestered them for a month or two about it. I had someone not submit their letter until the day before it was due the first time I applied. You may want to avoid that stress if you can.

The longer the person has known you, the better. I don't really have anything else to add. Good luck!

 

[Emiloo4]

The key is having three awesome ones. I'm not on anyone's admissions comittee, but if I were I wouldn't see one bit of difference between three awesome ones and three awesome plus a fourth mediocre.

And really, once you've hit three awesome ones ... any more are superfluous.

I would really only bother to go past three if you're applying somewhere that requires three vets AND you happen to have someone really important who isn't a vet who will speak incredibly highly of you.

But that's just me. I know some people feel lots of the "but they allow six! I must have six!" pressure. Silly gunners.

Completely agree! 👍

The only thing you can do, and this seems to always be the advise that crops up, is check with the schools you plan on applying to ,see what they want and tailor your app to those schools.

And yeah, OP, if you are applying to one school, and they told you that you need a professor, then you need a professor. What other schools want, doesn't matter at all. As you can see by the numerous answers to your question, every school is different and the more you apply to, the more difficult it becomes to please them all. If I could have stopped at three, I would have. eLORs to me were the most stressful part of my application.

 

[hopefulinva]

I'd recommend eLORs that will demonstrate how you are as a person.

I had one of the vets I work with, to speak on my professionalism in the field.
I had my research professor, to illustrate my interest in a related field of science.
I had my marching band instructor, to reinforce my dedication to community service (we did a lot of service events) and the fun things in life.

Honestly, with the exception of Cornell who requires a LOR for every experience, and those schools who require 2 vets - stick to just 1. Let your other eLORs be used by people who can comment on you as a person. There's more to being a vet than medicine!

 

[Emiloo4]

I could be wrong, but I thought most schools REQUIRED that one LOR be from a vet and one be from a professor or academic adviser?

Nope, not the case. Out of 12 schools I applied to, I think only 3 wanted one from a professor. Most want vets, some want an employer, its all crazy. Look at each school's requirements and figure out how to please them all. I needed 5 for one of the schools, a professor for 3 of them and an employer for 1 or 2...
So I got three vets, a professor, and an employer.

 

[Emiloo4]

I'd recommend eLORs that will demonstrate how you are as a person.

I had one of the vets I work with, to speak on my professionalism in the field.
I had my research professor, to illustrate my interest in a related field of science.
I had my marching band instructor, to reinforce my dedication to community service (we did a lot of service events) and the fun things in life.

Honestly, with the exception of Cornell who requires a LOR for every experience, and those schools who require 2 vets - stick to just 1. Let your other eLORs be used by people who can comment on you as a person. There's more to being a vet than medicine!

Yeah, and this is why some of them want employers as well. They want to know your work ethic. 👍

 

[equineconstant]

Nope, not the case. Out of 12 schools I applied to, I think only 3 wanted one from a professor. Most want vets, some want an employer, its all crazy. Look at each school's requirements and figure out how to please them all. I needed 5 for one of the schools, a professor for 3 of them and an employer for 1 or 2...
So I got three vets, a professor, and an employer.

And definitely check the actual school's site. The aavmc site said Missouri needed a letter from an employer, but the school's site didn't have that. When I emailed, they said they didn't need an employer's letter.

 

[tigerkissedqt]

It's tought to pick your LOR providers! I was lucky in that I had some obvious choices that would be great. I gave one vet, my boss at the doggy daycare, my clinical laboratory science professor/primary academic advisor/work-study boss, and my art professor/secondary advisor. Most places I applied only wanted 3 so I left out my boss when that was the case since I thought they might think it strange that I provided a letter from one of my major's departments and not the other major's.
Depending on where and how many places you apply I would vote to get up to 6 that you feel will be excellent ( <-- I stress this word) letters and you can always pick which go to which schools if they will only look at 3 or 4 for example. I think it's safe to say all schools place high value on veterinary eLORs, but if you have non-vet individuals that will write a rave review and sing your praises- pick that person over a vet that may only write a mediocre letter on your behalf.

 

[OH Bunny Girl]

I was told by an AdCom member in one of my file reviews (blech!) that they also look at the amount of time you've known your reviewer. How many hours of experience (either animal or vet) have you gathered with them? They also wanted to know how well you keep in touch with them over that amount of time you've known them.

My example: Even though my thesis advisor knew me extremely well and had wonderful things to say, b/c all my direct work/communication with him was 2+ years ago, they mentioned that my current PI might be a better option.

Just my $.02

Good luck 👍

 

[SpunkyMaddie]

However, I will just let you know what schools told me - Missouri in particular said they would read all six of my letters but really said they wanted them to be veterinarians (the best kind) or shelter owners, etc. They were blunt when they said professors did not matter very much at all.

Really? that's weird because all 3 of my letters came from professors and they didn't mention anything about that in the interview. One of the professors was also a vet though. 😕 If its true that they really only care about vets I guess I'm lucky I got in

 

[bbeventer]

I had someone not submit their letter until the day before it was due the first time I applied. You may want to avoid that stress if you can.

They day before it was due... I so would of taken that!! I had one of my writers wait 30minutes before the deadline to submit!! I didn't even know they made it until that evening when I saw all my writers on VMCAS. eLors suck, its the one portion of your application you can't control.

 

[LetItSnow]

They day before it was due... I so would of taken that!! I had one of my writers wait 30minutes before the deadline to submit!! I didn't even know they made it until that evening when I saw all my writers on VMCAS. eLors suck, its the one portion of your application you can't control.

My last submitter - also my best and most important LOR - took until the day before. I was getting really ... grumpy ... about what to do about the whole thing. Didn't want to pressure her, because she's probably the single-most important factor in me getting into school (not just her LOR, but the few hundred hours of experience she gave me), but really didn't want her to miss the deadline.

 

[abbercadaver]

Don't feel like quoting everyone here, but definitely echo:
1) If you are applying somewhere where they say you had to have a particular type of professional (professor/vet/advisor) have an eLOR, DO IT. You'll shoot yourself in the foot otherwise.
2) Definitely have outstanding eLORs. Don't fish around to fill all the slots.
3) If you have 6 fantastic ones, submit them all. No harm there; and you're covered in case one missed the deadline (one of mine did. 🙁)

So I worked at 2 vet clinics full time in the 2 years between graduation and application. Each clinic had a part-time and a a full-time/owner vet.

So I had 4 vets.

Then my riding instructor (who accounted for about 392822000 hours of my equine animal experience). This was the one that ended up not making the deadline. 🙁

And a high school teacher I was particularly fond of.

 

[DilliaP]

Has anyone had an experience where they couldn't get a LOR from a professor. I have been out of school for a bit and sad to say I can't even remember most of my prof's names. My 2 instructors I was going to ask has retired and I have no way to get in contact with them.

Also, can my supervisor write a LOR for me. I work in a research lab and she has a masters in bioinfomatics (I think that's what it is 😕). I also may bite the bullet and ask my boss for one. She has a PhD in I think genetics. The worst that can happen is she can yell and fire me.

 

[abbercadaver]

Has anyone had an experience where they couldn't get a LOR from a professor. I have been out of school for a bit and sad to say I can't even remember most of my prof's names. My 2 instructors I was going to ask has retired and I have no way to get in contact with them.

Also, can my supervisor write a LOR for me. I work in a research lab and she has a masters in bioinfomatics (I think that's what it is 😕). I also may bite the bullet and ask my boss for one. She has a PhD in I think genetics. The worst that can happen is she can yell and fire me.

I bet someone at the school knows how you can get a letter or email to those instructors. Just call and ask. If they blow you off completely, maybe consider visiting the school to ask. Sometimes you have better luck with things like this in person.

Not all schools require you to have a professor to write you an eLOR. If yours does, you'd better find one. Otherwise don't sweat it. 😎

If you think your boss or supervisor might fire you for asking for an eLOR...I would not ask at all. You do not need a bad eLOR floating around in your pile.

 

[DilliaP]

I bet someone at the school knows how you can get a letter or email to those instructors. Just call and ask. If they blow you off completely, maybe consider visiting the school to ask. Sometimes you have better luck with things like this in person.

Not all schools require you to have a professor to write you an eLOR. If yours does, you'd better find one. Otherwise don't sweat it. 😎

One prof moved to Chicago with no forwarding address. The other no one who I talked to knew. I cant go to the school. I live in DC I graduated from Univ of New Orleans. Can't take the time off or afford the plane and hotel fare right now. I want to apply to Ross, and according to my research. the require one from a professors. So... *gulp*!!

 

[abbercadaver]

If you remember their full names, maybe you could try googling? That can be surprisingly fruitful.

According to this link: http://www.rossu.edu/veterinary-school/admissions/getstarted.cfm, it looks like you just need two letters of recommendation or your pre-ved advisory committee. It doesn't specify (here) who needs to write them for you. But here: http://www.rossu.edu/veterinary-school/documents/VetApplicationChecklist.pdf it does say. That's sticky. Have you contacted the school to see if this is a strictly adhered to policy or if there is wiggle room?

 

[DilliaP]

If you remember their full names, maybe you could try googling? That can be surprisingly fruitful.

According to this link: http://www.rossu.edu/veterinary-school/admissions/getstarted.cfm, it looks like you just need two letters of recommendation or your pre-ved advisory committee. It doesn't specify (here) who needs to write them for you. But here: http://www.rossu.edu/veterinary-school/documents/VetApplicationChecklist.pdf it does say. That's sticky. Have you contacted the school to see if this is a strictly adhered to policy or if there is wiggle room?

I will try google to try to track them down. I'm a bit worried they may think I'm a stalker and will refuse just for that. But I can try. If I cant find them, I will just contact Ross and plead and beg and whatever else I have to do.

 

[hai1983]

So, eLOrs. I have two already(!) submitted, one from my organic chemistry professor and another from a veterinarian. A third letter, from another veterinarian, is in progress. I feel like these letters will represent me as a student, tech, potential veterinarian and person well.

And now I ran into one of my clients while I was shopping and she asked if she could write a LOR for me. Is this something people do, submit LORs from clients? I've known her for four years and I feel like she would write a very strong letter about my character/compassion/patience... but I don't want to give her the go ahead if letters from clients are just not done. Thanks for your opinions!

 

[LetItSnow]

And now I ran into one of my clients while I was shopping and she asked if she could write a LOR for me. Is this something people do, submit LORs from clients? I've known her for four years and I feel like she would write a very strong letter about my character/compassion/patience... but I don't want to give her the go ahead if letters from clients are just not done. Thanks for your opinions!

If you trust her to write a very positive one, I don't see why you wouldn't do it. You've got the important bases covered ... I'm having trouble seeing a negative to having her submit one. If anything, she might be able to speak to certain skills/traits that are highly desirable.

Dunno. I haven't heard of people doing this, but my first gut reaction is that I'd welcome it if I were evaluating you.

 

[hai1983]

If you trust her to write a very positive one, I don't see why you wouldn't do it. You've got the important bases covered ... I'm having trouble seeing a negative to having her submit one. If anything, she might be able to speak to certain skills/traits that are highly desirable.

Dunno. I haven't heard of people doing this, but my first gut reaction is that I'd welcome it if I were evaluating you.

Thanks, LIS. My reaction is the same, I just haven't heard of anyone using a client LOR. I guess if nothing else it might be distinctive.

 

[SnowyRox]

The key is having three awesome ones. I'm not on anyone's admissions comittee, but if I were I wouldn't see one bit of difference between three awesome ones and three awesome plus a fourth mediocre.

And really, once you've hit three awesome ones ... any more are superfluous.

I would really only bother to go past three if you're applying somewhere that requires three vets AND you happen to have someone really important who isn't a vet who will speak incredibly highly of you.

But that's just me. I know some people feel lots of the "but they allow six! I must have six!" pressure. Silly gunners.

The issue here is that some school will say that if you send more than 3 letters, they will randomly select which 3 to read. This means they might only see 2 awesome & 1 mediocre. Which is sub-optimal. This is the reason that I crossed Iowa off my school list... my 2nd vet letter was going to be mediocre. Great man & great vet, but not a great writer.

The vast majority of letter writers make it sound like an applicant walks on water. Mediocre is bad in this process. You want to be the best.

 

[LetItSnow]

The issue here is that some school will say that if you send more than 3 letters, they will randomly select which 3 to read. This means they might only see 2 awesome & 1 mediocre. Which is sub-optimal. This is the reason that I crossed Iowa off my school list... my 2nd vet letter was going to be mediocre. Great man & great vet, but not a great writer.

I wouldn't worry too much about the writing quality - no reasonable vet school reader is going to hold that person's writing quality against you; it's content that matters. (Within reason - if your letter reads like an 8-year-old wrote it, then sure, they might wonder about the judgment of the person writing it.) It's not like most vets are amazing writers, either. 🙂

 

[StartingoverVet]

If you trust her to write a very positive one, I don't see why you wouldn't do it. You've got the important bases covered ... I'm having trouble seeing a negative to having her submit one. If anything, she might be able to speak to certain skills/traits that are highly desirable.

Dunno. I haven't heard of people doing this, but my first gut reaction is that I'd welcome it if I were evaluating you.

I agree. Anything those shows you have amazing traits useful to be a vet is helpful, especially if they can compare you to others in the industry.

The best letter is as follows:

I have observed 18,325 vets in my life, and LIS has shown me that he would be in the top 1 or 2 of those when he gets to practice. he is <blah, blah, blah>

and in my mind a client is just as competent to write that letter as anyone.

I had a breeder who I worked with in rescue write me a letter (which I saw) in where she compared me to her gold standard vet (who is well-regarded in socal) and saw me as being capable of reaching that standard. I was flattered and I think it was effective even if she wasn't going to win any nobel laureates.

 

[hai1983]

I agree. Anything those shows you have amazing traits useful to be a vet is helpful, especially if they can compare you to others in the industry.

The best letter is as follows:

I have observed 18,325 vets in my life, and LIS has shown me that he would be in the top 1 or 2 of those when he gets to practice. he is <blah, blah, blah>

and in my mind a client is just as competent to write that letter as anyone.

I had a breeder who I worked with in rescue write me a letter (which I saw) in where she compared me to her gold standard vet (who is well-regarded in socal) and saw me as being capable of reaching that standard. I was flattered and I think it was effective even if she wasn't going to win any nobel laureates.

You make an excellent argument, and I like your anecdote about the breeder who wrote you a letter. Thanks!

 

[adams30]

Any thoughts on having a current vet student write an eLOR?

I already have 1 physiology professor, 2 vets (1 large animal and 1 small animal), and the resident director that I work with for my volunteer mentoring program that I'm part of (has NOTHING to do with animal but does with people).

I'm volunteering at the wildlife medical clinic this summer through the U of I vet teaching hospital and our hospital managers are two veterinary students. One student has been impressed by our hard work and said "if you ever need any recommendations for vet school just ask." I'm thinking of taking her up on that offer because I feel that she could write a strong letter.

Even though she's a student (just finished her first year) she does have the hospital manager position.

Any thoughts?

 

[adams30]

as in "hospital manager" I just meant student manager of the wildlife clinic

 

[capirinha]

.

 

[equineconstant]

Has anyone had more than one vet included in a letter? I work at a clinic with 4 doctors and I was thinking of asking them all to come together and write one letter, rather than having separate recommendations coming from the same place discussing similar experiences...

If anyone has done this, how do you list this in the vmcas app? Just pick one to be the "main" recommender and use their info to submit to vmcas?

I didn't do that, but I do have a committee letter, which is sort of similar. On VMCAS, I put the committee chair's name and info.

 

[boilermaker713]

I'd recommend eLORs that will demonstrate how you are as a person.

I had one of the vets I work with, to speak on my professionalism in the field.
I had my research professor, to illustrate my interest in a related field of science.
I had my marching band instructor, to reinforce my dedication to community service (we did a lot of service events) and the fun things in life.

Honestly, with the exception of Cornell who requires a LOR for every experience, and those schools who require 2 vets - stick to just 1. Let your other eLORs be used by people who can comment on you as a person. There's more to being a vet than medicine!

It is good to read that you used your marching band instructor as a LOR, because I was thinking of using mine as one. I march at Purdue University where I've held leadership positions and had the opportunity to travel, represent our university, etc. Do you feel this LOR was a good choice for you? I feel it would show I was well-rounded and comfortable with getting outside of my main focus. Any other opinions on what the LOR demonstrated about you?

 

[hopefulinva]

It is good to read that you used your marching band instructor as a LOR, because I was thinking of using mine as one. I march at Purdue University where I've held leadership positions and had the opportunity to travel, represent our university, etc. Do you feel this LOR was a good choice for you? I feel it would show I was well-rounded and comfortable with getting outside of my main focus. Any other opinions on what the LOR demonstrated about you?

It was absolutely a good choice for me. =) Granted, the man is known for his recommendation-writing skills, but I think having someone in there who knows you well outside of your drive as a pre-vet student is important. Especially since you've held leadership positions (he can speak about your responsibility, etc) and have represented your school outside of its home turf.

I think most importantly, it shows that you're a person. Not that nose-to-the-grindstone students who eatsleepbreathe pre-medicine aren't, but your participation in marching band shows an artistic opposite to your scientific self, which completes the picture of a well-rounded individual. IMO. =)

If I had to do it all over again I'd pick him for an eLOR every time.

 

[equineconstant]

Since we've got a thread for this and all...

Do you think I should include a 6th LOR from my employer (at the writing center at my school)? My other letters are 3 vets (equine, small, and exotic), my trainer I rode with in high school, and an academic-focused letter from the health professions advising committee at my school. I'm considering it because I think Cornell looks really positively on work experience...but Missouri only reads 4 letters, so that would be another letter they won't even look at, and I'm not sure how that would come across. What do y'all think?