Just curious, how many of you turned down higher ranked schools (10+ ranks higher) to be in a better location like NYC (financial aid irrelevant)?
Who turned down higher ranked schools for locale?
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I did. I find that location and not quality of the teaching faculty can make a difference for me. Personally, I was looking for a location that would allow me to slow down life a little, provide little distraction, and allow me to focus on my studies.
Toledo, OH seemed to be the perfect fit. Luckily for me, the financial situation was matched by MCO in comparison to the UC's. So, I decided to take a hiatus out of Cali for a while to see a different part of the world.
I tend to work best by finding a quiet place to beat my head against some review books and medical literature.
Am I happy so far (currently only one week into living in OH), eh, I would probably do it again. Not exactly California whether, but I can tell you this much, very little distractions + a mile high mountain of literature, leaves little options but to do well in grad/prof school.
My $.02
Hope all goes well.
Toledo, OH seemed to be the perfect fit. Luckily for me, the financial situation was matched by MCO in comparison to the UC's. So, I decided to take a hiatus out of Cali for a while to see a different part of the world.
I tend to work best by finding a quiet place to beat my head against some review books and medical literature.
Am I happy so far (currently only one week into living in OH), eh, I would probably do it again. Not exactly California whether, but I can tell you this much, very little distractions + a mile high mountain of literature, leaves little options but to do well in grad/prof school.
My $.02
Hope all goes well.
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pekq said:
For me this decision really depends upon the school for which I was turning down a top 10. If we are talking about NYU or MSSM, and if I really loved NYC, I could see myself turning down a top 10 admission. However, since financial aid is irrelevant here, I don't think I would turn down a top 10 for SUNY Downstate.
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I turned down an higher ranked East Coast School (US News 😉 ) because I wanted to stay in california..and turned down a higher ranked school IN california because of location as well. LOL...as you can see....location is really important to me 
-Harps
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I turned down Buffalo even though it's less than half the cost of GW. I turned down Boston U. even though I had an RA position. I just wanted to be in DC and have better weather. I know there's not a significant difference but I wanted a new adventure. It's just going to cost me $50k more. But I rationalize it because if I'm not happy where I go to school then I won't be happy with medicine later on.
I have been accepted at a top ten school...and they gave me a nice fin. aid. package 😀 . However, I would turn them down in a heartbeat if MSSM took me off their waitlist. I am from NYC, and there's no place like home
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Please! said:
whoa, you got into a top 10 but NOT mssm? i believe this "it's a crapshoot" business more and more every day.
i'm seriously considering the situation currently. for those of you that have turned down a "better" school, were you actually familiar with that school's location or did you just want to go to the other place more?
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pekq said:
hmm, as a long islander i was rejected or waitlisted at every school in the NY metro area except NYMC, and i applied to them all.
I think people who choose schools based on ranking are in the minority. For 9 out of 10 people, locale is more important than ranking, so no offense to the OP, but this is a topic that could only work on SDN, where "rankings matter" because so many people here live life on the Internet and not in the real world.
I turned down University of Michigan for Northwestern. There is no way I could see myself spending a long time in Ann Arbor over Chicago. Medicine is about the connections just as much as any industry (I have worked with doctors who have said this, and the coordinator at my Duke interview said the same thing). Medicine is a business, and businesses hire people to do work. If you have some sort of connection to the place where you want to be, it is much easier to get a job there. Translation: I want to settle down and envision myself in/around Chicago 15 years from now. I certainly don't see myself staying around Ann Arbor for too long, nore do I want to pick up and leave all the connections you make for another location down the road (connections and networking takes years to build, and this includes a social network, such as friends, girlfriends, relationships in your industry/work, etc., and I'm sorry, after I spend 4 years building this fragile, very important network, I don't want to leave it all behind).
For me, Northwestern and Michigan are both "very great medical schools" so the difference becomes where you want to spend your life, and where can you envision yourself 15 years from now. I'm sorry, but I doubt any medical students who chose a higher ranked school, and in M3 they decide they hate the city they chose to live in and want to live somewhere else, are much less happy than those who are settled already in the environment that they want to be in. Don't underestimate establishing a social and business network for yourself--these things take years to build, and the older we get the harder it will be to create them, so go to the location that you can envision yourself in the most. No one sits around the house in a location they want to leave, and say to themselves "But I am so happy because that US News list shows I'm at such a high ranked school." Rankings are subjective anyway and don't show the quality of the education, just the research dollars, and other things which are fluid from year to year. But what is not fluid is I can bet you in 10 years Chicago will still be Chicago, and Ann Arbor will still be Ann Arbor.
I turned down University of Michigan for Northwestern. There is no way I could see myself spending a long time in Ann Arbor over Chicago. Medicine is about the connections just as much as any industry (I have worked with doctors who have said this, and the coordinator at my Duke interview said the same thing). Medicine is a business, and businesses hire people to do work. If you have some sort of connection to the place where you want to be, it is much easier to get a job there. Translation: I want to settle down and envision myself in/around Chicago 15 years from now. I certainly don't see myself staying around Ann Arbor for too long, nore do I want to pick up and leave all the connections you make for another location down the road (connections and networking takes years to build, and this includes a social network, such as friends, girlfriends, relationships in your industry/work, etc., and I'm sorry, after I spend 4 years building this fragile, very important network, I don't want to leave it all behind).
For me, Northwestern and Michigan are both "very great medical schools" so the difference becomes where you want to spend your life, and where can you envision yourself 15 years from now. I'm sorry, but I doubt any medical students who chose a higher ranked school, and in M3 they decide they hate the city they chose to live in and want to live somewhere else, are much less happy than those who are settled already in the environment that they want to be in. Don't underestimate establishing a social and business network for yourself--these things take years to build, and the older we get the harder it will be to create them, so go to the location that you can envision yourself in the most. No one sits around the house in a location they want to leave, and say to themselves "But I am so happy because that US News list shows I'm at such a high ranked school." Rankings are subjective anyway and don't show the quality of the education, just the research dollars, and other things which are fluid from year to year. But what is not fluid is I can bet you in 10 years Chicago will still be Chicago, and Ann Arbor will still be Ann Arbor.
Mr. Rosewater said:
Would you go to MSSM in a heartbeat over UPitt? 😀
Maybe I should start spreading nasty rumors about MSSM to open up some spots.
CTwickman:
I disagree, I think rankings matter a lot in where people decide to go to med school. If what you said was true, UPitt wouldn't have the kind of students that they have. The same can be said of Washu, Mayo, UMich and many top schools not located in desirable locales. These schools get top students based just on their prestige alone. Looking at my alma mater's list of where pre-meds got in and where they chose to go, it'd seem that they all went to the highest ranked school with the exception of state schools.
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ctwickman - Dude, what are you talking about!?!?! USNEWS = God! Possibly USNEWS > God. They are infallible; whatever they say must be the gospel truth. How can you state that rankings don't matter, or imply that USNews only publishes the rankings to generate the profits with which they keep their third-tier magazine financially solvent? Bow down and worship 'em. NOW!
On a more serious note, it's really ironic that people in general give so much importance to rankings from a magazine that, without the rankings issues, probably wouldn't crack the top 25 in circulation... in other words, a magazine that, if USNews ranked magazines, wouldn't make the top-tier cut. Man, that's messed-up.
On a more serious note, it's really ironic that people in general give so much importance to rankings from a magazine that, without the rankings issues, probably wouldn't crack the top 25 in circulation... in other words, a magazine that, if USNews ranked magazines, wouldn't make the top-tier cut. Man, that's messed-up.
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Newquagmire - I know you're considering Baylor, and I'm guessing you're considering a school lower-ranked than them, since I know you've said you're not crazy about Texas. No worries, not offended. If you don't mind my asking, what's the other school?
Exactly Baylorlion!
Personally I don't know of anyone that chose their school based on US News rankings. I know those people are out there, but I haven't met any, and nor would I want to meet someone that plans their life based on a fluid, subjective list. Their rankings are completely based on subjective methodology, plain and simple. If they change their methodology next year, the rankings would completely change, but yet the schools would not. And the rankings do not show, at all, what the quality of your education is going to be. Heck, look at Business School rankings. We have US News. We have Wall Street Journal. And we have Business Week. What school is "#1" depends on which one you read. If medical schools were "ranked" by other magazines and newspapers, I'm sure it would be as different from US News and Business Week's is with business schools. My point? I'm sure I can get Harvard out of the Top5, for instance, depending on what my methodology for "ranking" is.
Either way, they are only their to make some people feel better than others about their 4 year decision. As long as it has a "good reputation," your medical school will get you only as far as how restless you are. Time and time again, medical students and faculty told me not to base any decisions based on rankings--even the "higher ranked" schools told me this. There is a general consensus among all doctors I talked to that rankings DO NOT matter if you plan on going into clinical medicine, which I assume 95% of us will.
But this topic is old and tired. It's unfortunate for some, however, that think a list from a third-tier magazine like US News will honestly translate into real life experience. The only thing that list can do for you is act as a guide on how important research is for some schools. As far as where you will be 10 years from now, the only thing that matters is how restless you are, not the school you go to. Time and time again doctors will tell you this, and it's time some people start waking up and taking their word for it.
If you want to let a FLUID list from a crap-mag like US News govern such a major decision as where you are going to spend 4 years of your life during your prime years of age, so be it, there is nothing I can say. But most of us realize that medicine is like a business like any other, and subject to the connections you have in the area, not to mention how difficult it is to build a social and business network over 4 years, only to break it down and start from scratch all over again, especially as it becomes more difficult to meet and befriend others as you get older. For most of us, the locale is much more important than what some pundit at US News puts through a calculator.
Personally I don't know of anyone that chose their school based on US News rankings. I know those people are out there, but I haven't met any, and nor would I want to meet someone that plans their life based on a fluid, subjective list. Their rankings are completely based on subjective methodology, plain and simple. If they change their methodology next year, the rankings would completely change, but yet the schools would not. And the rankings do not show, at all, what the quality of your education is going to be. Heck, look at Business School rankings. We have US News. We have Wall Street Journal. And we have Business Week. What school is "#1" depends on which one you read. If medical schools were "ranked" by other magazines and newspapers, I'm sure it would be as different from US News and Business Week's is with business schools. My point? I'm sure I can get Harvard out of the Top5, for instance, depending on what my methodology for "ranking" is.
Either way, they are only their to make some people feel better than others about their 4 year decision. As long as it has a "good reputation," your medical school will get you only as far as how restless you are. Time and time again, medical students and faculty told me not to base any decisions based on rankings--even the "higher ranked" schools told me this. There is a general consensus among all doctors I talked to that rankings DO NOT matter if you plan on going into clinical medicine, which I assume 95% of us will.
But this topic is old and tired. It's unfortunate for some, however, that think a list from a third-tier magazine like US News will honestly translate into real life experience. The only thing that list can do for you is act as a guide on how important research is for some schools. As far as where you will be 10 years from now, the only thing that matters is how restless you are, not the school you go to. Time and time again doctors will tell you this, and it's time some people start waking up and taking their word for it.
If you want to let a FLUID list from a crap-mag like US News govern such a major decision as where you are going to spend 4 years of your life during your prime years of age, so be it, there is nothing I can say. But most of us realize that medicine is like a business like any other, and subject to the connections you have in the area, not to mention how difficult it is to build a social and business network over 4 years, only to break it down and start from scratch all over again, especially as it becomes more difficult to meet and befriend others as you get older. For most of us, the locale is much more important than what some pundit at US News puts through a calculator.
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The thing that frustrates me about US News is how fluid the rankings are (yeah, I know Harvard has been at #1 since the start, but with that huge NIH number from the hospitals (double the next school, I think UWash), that's not going to change for a while). I remember going to a accepted students weekend at a medical school where they showed that, if you fiddled with the numbers or the calculator somehow they would go from being near the bottom of the top 25 schools to within the top 5 or something like that.
I ended up picking the 2nd or 3rd highest ranked school I was accepted to. There's really not that much difference between the top schools, in my opinion (or even among medical schools in general). Some difference, but not enough of one to guarantee to yourself that school X's reputation will still be better than school Y's 10 or 20 years from now. Things change. I don't think our generation has the same respect for, say, Drexel that a generation or two ago had for MCP Hahnemann. Would UPenn be as highly regarded today if the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania had continued its financial hemorrhaging and dragged the med school's finances down with it? Will my own med school be as highly regarded as it is today if its decision to switch primary affiliation from Methodist to St. Luke's turns out to be a very, very bad one (which I think is entirely possible)? Or the new Baylor Clinic destroys the financial stability of the school? We can deal in probabilities all day, but like Peter Lynch says, past performance is no guarantee of future performance.
This was the question I asked myself - "If these two schools switch spots next year in the rankings, will you still be happy with your decision?" You don't even have to go that far - ask yourself what you would do if they came closer in the rankings.
I ended up picking the 2nd or 3rd highest ranked school I was accepted to. There's really not that much difference between the top schools, in my opinion (or even among medical schools in general). Some difference, but not enough of one to guarantee to yourself that school X's reputation will still be better than school Y's 10 or 20 years from now. Things change. I don't think our generation has the same respect for, say, Drexel that a generation or two ago had for MCP Hahnemann. Would UPenn be as highly regarded today if the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania had continued its financial hemorrhaging and dragged the med school's finances down with it? Will my own med school be as highly regarded as it is today if its decision to switch primary affiliation from Methodist to St. Luke's turns out to be a very, very bad one (which I think is entirely possible)? Or the new Baylor Clinic destroys the financial stability of the school? We can deal in probabilities all day, but like Peter Lynch says, past performance is no guarantee of future performance.
This was the question I asked myself - "If these two schools switch spots next year in the rankings, will you still be happy with your decision?" You don't even have to go that far - ask yourself what you would do if they came closer in the rankings.
BaylorLion said:
With an attitude like that, you are ahead of the game. In 3 years you are going to be working very hard--you better be in a place you like and one that you can envision yourself STAYING (at least in the same area, doesn't have to be the exact same city), otherwise you'll spend all of your time studying and no time having a real life, because if you don't love where you are and know that you are going to leave, there is no incentive to create that social and business network which will become hugely important down the road. Don't underestimate the power of building relationships within your industry with colleagues, and outside of it with friends. It's what makes life worth living, and will translate into being a much more successful, and better, doctor.
pekq said:
I thought the topic was basically: "Would you choose a lower ranked school for a locale that suits you better?" This begs the question of how valid the ranking system is. Or is this just a poll of people that basically "Did or did not choose their school based on a list in US News?"
ctwickman said:
It's a poll of people who chose to forego a school ranked one tier higher to go to a school located in a place they like better. Old Lady's choice of UAriz would be an example of that whereas Harp's wouldn't.
Probably. I spoke to the Dean over at UMich and he said that the top reason that people turn down UMich is location. (This info. came from a survey that they give to people that withdraw acceptances)pekq said:
