Why are surgeons held with higher esteem than are physicians?

[Horowitz]

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I don't understand why though; for example, I think it takes more brain work to be a cardiologist than to be an orthopaedic surgeon. In short, "physicians use their brains; surgeons use their hands."

 

[coffeebythelake]

Huh? Why would you think that surgeons are held in higher regard?

 

[kypdurron5]

Held in higher esteem by who? I don't know anyone who thinks this way, layman or otherwise. Certain surgical subspecialties can be extraordinarily difficult to get into, and require a ludicrous number of years to complete...so there is that. But I would assume a pediatric cardiothoracic surgeon is good at that, and only that, while an EM physician is good with at least a small amount of everything. Plus, "brain surgeon" will always have a certain ring to it, like "rocket scientist."

 

[nonesuchgirl]

Because surgeons are sexier than cardiologists.

*fans self*

😎


Also, surgeons have to use their hands and their brains. Not just one.

 

[kypdurron5]

Because surgeons are sexier than cardiologists.

*fans self*

😎


Also, surgeons have to use their hands and their brains. Not just one.

Interesting choice of quote- isn't he the guy that was shot by his own men? Bet he didn't want that.... 😉

 

[nonesuchgirl]

Interesting choice of quote- isn't he the guy that was shot by his own men? Bet he didn't want that.... 😉

Yeah.

It's one of the things we have in common.

lol. 😎

 

[SocialistMD]

I think there is a taboo to cutting someone open that makes people admire what surgeons do. A lot of people think that, if they studied real hard, they could do what an internist does, but most people that I know outside of the profession could never cut someone open. This is all I really ever hear from my non-medical friends, "Wow, I could never do that." When you see someone who can do things you can't, you put them on a pedestal. Same for professional athletes; Mark McGuire could hit the ball so far he was a god in St. Louis, Brett Favre could throw the football nearly the length of the field on a rope and Michael Jordan could do things on a basketball court that no one had ever seen before. Think about anyone you have ever really idolized and then examine why you did. Chances are, it was because they did something on a daily basis that you could never do. That's all it is.

 

[Maxprime]

Surgery has the perception of danger.

 

[Catalystik]

I've never heard that surgeons are more esteemed. If anything they are victims of the stereotype that their skill is less cerebral and more a result of repetitive training. This is surprising considering that higher Step I scores are needed to get into the competitive surgical subspecialties.

 

[dizzyorange]

Seems to me like they're held in the same regard. Surgery can be very cerebral and medicine can be very hands on.

 

[NoMind]

It's simply because Surgery is a miracle and Surgeons are Gods who walk the Earth.

 

[Blade28]

From Trilla A et al, Phenotypic differences between male physicians, surgeons, and film stars: comparative study. BMJ 2006; 333:1291-3:

Objectives
To test the hypothesis that, on average, male surgeons are taller and better looking than male physicians, and to compare both sets of doctors with film stars who play doctors on screen.

Design
Comparative study.

Setting
Typical university hospital in Spain, located in Barcelona and not in a sleepy backwater.

Participants
Random sample of 12 surgeons and 12 physicians plus 4 external controls (film stars who play doctors), matched by age (50s) and sex (all male).

Interventions
An independent committee (all female) evaluated the "good looking score" (range 1-7).

Main outcome measures
Height (cm) and points on the good looking score.

Results
Surgeons were significantly taller than physicians (mean height 179.4 v 172.6 cm; P=0.01). Controls had significantly higher good looking scores than surgeons (mean score 5.96 v 4.39; difference between means 1.57, 95% confidence interval 0.69 to 2.45; P=0.013) and physicians (5.96 v 3.65; 2.31, 1.58 to 3.04; P=0.003). Surgeons had significantly higher good looking scores than physicians (4.39 v 3.65; 0.74; 0.25 to 1.23; P=0.010).

Conclusions
Male surgeons are taller and better looking than physicians, but film stars who play doctors on screen are better looking than both these groups of doctors. Whether these phenotypic differences are genetic or environmental is unclear.

(For any people here unfamiliar with the BMJ, every Christmas issue they conduct scientific, tongue-in-cheek studies like the one above.)

 

[Perrotfish]

You´re in a room with two other people. One of them has a reputation for cutting people and is holding something sharp. The other one has a book. Who are you gonna be more respectful towards?

 

[SoCuteMD]

I admire surgeons. I admire the sacrifices they have made in getting through training. I admire them for loving something enough to do that, and I think a lot of people in non-surgical fields feel the same way. Thus, we may be a bit deferrent to those who have worked so incredibly hard. Or we may just give them a lot of crap on the Internet! 😀 *waves to Blade*

 

[werd]

surgeons hold themselves in higher regard. also, many surgeons are feared/short-tempered/unapproachable, which can create the appearance of increased importance or regard.

 

[Danbo1957]

An article to the point:

http://www.webmm.ahrq.gov/case.aspx?caseID=122

 

[Blade28]

Thus, we may be a bit deferrent to those who have worked so incredibly hard. Or we may just give them a lot of crap on the Internet! 😀 *waves to Blade*

Everyone, ignore the first sentence in the above quote. There's no "deference" here on SDN! 🙂

 

[Mayhem]

I had a patient who was very pro - surgeon. His reason: When he had been admitted to surgery he had an operation and he was cured. Meanwhile here he was on medicine lying in the same bed for the last 3 weeks. Didn't matter to the patient that it was 2 different problems, all he knew is that surgery = instant cure.

 

[Blade28]

That's one of the reasons why I love surgery - I feel like I can make immediate, tangible changes in a patient's life.

It's very tough to "treat" or "cure" chronic conditions like HTN, DM, etc. But in many cases, for many disease processes, surgery offers the patient a chance at a cure - or, in other cases, the relief of suffering.

 

[mikedc813]

That's one of the reasons why I love surgery - I feel like I can make immediate, tangible changes in a patient's life.

It's very tough to "treat" or "cure" chronic conditions like HTN, DM, etc. But in many cases, for many disease processes, surgery offers the patient a chance at a cure - or, in other cases, the relief of suffering.

Heck you can interchange "radiation" for "surgery". That's one of the reasons why I am going into rad onc.

And I have NO idea what the original post means that surgeons are respected more than other physicians. Talk about ignorance inthe medical profession.

 

[FenderHM]

i think surgeons are the only ones that hold surgeons in a higher regard...



no but honestly, they can prescribe and diagnose same as other doctors, but other doctors can't cut (exceptions ob/gyn EM etc..) ... so i guess thats why?


but really dont let surgeons convince you theyre better cause lord knows theyll try, insecure egomaniacs

 

[smq123]

but really dont let surgeons convince you theyre better cause lord knows theyll try, insecure egomaniacs

😕 Did you have a bad experience with a surgeon?

That hasn't been my experience. The surgeons were really good about encouraging students to pursue their interests (whether or not that was surgery). And they were a lot of fun to be around.

Some surgeons are insecure egomaniacs. But so are some emergency med doctors, and so are some pediatricians. It's based on your personality...not your specialty.

 

[dilated]

Because nowadays people think that if they had a prescription pad and webmd.com they could spend the day as your internist without anyone noticing. Maybe one day we'll get appendectomy.com and then surgeons can join the disrespected crowd. 😛

 

[brimley]

Surgeons are physicians.

 

[Blesbok]

Because if you aren't nice the orthopods will run you up the flagpole by the elastic on your underwear.

 

[nonesuchgirl]

Surgeons are physicians.

Try telling a surgeon that.

 

[-Goose-]

Some surgeons are insecure egomaniacs. But so are some emergency med doctors, and so are some pediatricians. It's based on your personality...not your specialty.

Some of the most malignant, insecure, and downright intimidating attendings I've met are pediatricians. Really puzzling too me as I've met several pediatricians that are completely opposite.

 

[FenderHM]

but really dont let surgeons convince you theyre better cause lord knows theyll try, insecure egomaniacs

Im just saying... the surgeons I know tend to be more egotistical than other physicians ive met in general... so ok maybe that last statement was a little harsher than I meant it to be

 

[nonesuchgirl]

Im just saying... the surgeons I know tend to be more egotistical than other physicians ive met in general... so ok maybe that last statement was a little harsher than I meant it to be

Insert Blalock quote here.

 

[Tired]

for example, I think it takes more brain work to be a cardiologist than to be an orthopaedic surgeon.

Clearly you know very little about surgery in general or Orthopaedics in particular.

 

[Horowitz]

Clearly you know very little about surgery in general or Orthopaedics in particular.

and your username is contagious😴

 

[Orthodoc40]

I've never heard that surgeons are more esteemed. If anything they are victims of the stereotype that their skill is less cerebral and more a result of repetitive training. This is surprising considering that higher Step I scores are needed to get into the competitive surgical subspecialties.

Agree with this. In the medical field anyway, surgeons tend to be on the receiving end of many jokes implying less intelligence.

 

[smq123]

Try telling a surgeon that.

😕 Most surgeons will tell you that they're physicians...that, in fact, they are the only "complete" physicians because they can medically treat AND surgically treat patients of all ages and both genders.

Im just saying... the surgeons I know tend to be more egotistical than other physicians ive met in general... so ok maybe that last statement was a little harsher than I meant it to be

I'd hold off on that assessment, at least until you do rotations. Sure, some surgeons are egotistical d-bags, but I've had the misfortune of meeting many physicians in other specialties that were worse.

 

[BrainBuff]

Why are surgeons held with higher esteem than are physicians?"

Surgeons are the only ones who hold themselves with higher esteem. It has to do with their ego and nothing else. I could swear that some of them think they walk on water...

 

[nonesuchgirl]

😕 Most surgeons will tell you that they're physicians...that, in fact, they are the only "complete" physicians because they can medically treat AND surgically treat patients of all ages and both genders.

One of my boys, when told, "physician, heal thyself" (by someone other than me)

retorted, "I'm a surgeon, not a physician."

It was lol-worthy.

 

[CuteGoanGirl]

I don't understand why though; for example, I think it takes more brain work to be a cardiologist than to be an orthopaedic surgeon. In short, "physicians use their brains; surgeons use their hands."

Well I guess its the brain that directs either way. risos!

 

[smq123]

I don't understand why though; for example, I think it takes more brain work to be a cardiologist than to be an orthopaedic surgeon. In short, "physicians use their brains; surgeons use their hands."

😕😕😕

Are the cardiologists in your area using their feet to stent people, or something? And most physicians place an LP - not just hurl it in like a dart.

 

[MD2B2011]

So, I recall reading a survey of a random sample of the U.S. population by one of the famous polling firms (I am afraid I am too lazy to look it up again) assessing the amount of respect the average american had for each particular specialty. What was highest? Surgeons. Then physicians (interesting they made the distinction). Followed by astronauts then some other random ones and things like lawyers in 30th and politicans around 50th in terms of respect.

In short, the original poster is right, as evidenced by the aforementioned study. The average person thinks surgery is the most prestigious field.

Some of you, naive people think that medical school jokes about surgeons are indicative of how people in general perceive surgeons. Another important distinction to make is pointed out in one of those residency guide books (perhaps Iserson's...): academic medicine has much different perceived respect for certain specialties than medicine in general. What ranked higher when asking non-academic physicians for perceived usefulness/effectiveness of care: the surgical specialties, anesthesiology, radiology. What was on the academic-physicians' list: primary care, emergency medicine.

The point I am trying to make is that medical school colors your viewpoint to a very slanted perception of what is important/prestigious/useful/good/etc in terms of specialties - these perceptions do not match anything objective or what the general population believes: surgery is one specaialty that suffers a greatly in terms of jokes and stereotypes (albeit often true, but often not) made by academicians. The reason - surgeons do not teach medical students in the non-clinical setting (who does? primary care, path, Emed all at my school and I imagine most others) and compensation often is a factor I would infer.

In short, don't let people's perception mess with what you like/are good at in medicine. You'll find no matter what field you enter, someone will be denigrating it while another will laud it. Just do what you like. And always, Illegitimi Non Carborundum (don't let the bastards grind you).

P.S. I am not even doing surgery, nor do I particularly like it, but I could not tolerate to see such illogical statements made without greater consideration than the individual authors' opinions.

 

[ImFictional]

I think that's its really just women surgeons who are thought so highly of.
What man doesn't want to see the looks on the faces of his buddies as he introduces his girlfriend, the otolaryngologist.

Hey baby, can I resect that for you? .... I can't tell you how many guys I pick up on the weekends with that line.

 

[Eddie]

Surgeons are the only ones who hold themselves with higher esteem. It has to do with their ego and nothing else. I could swear that some of them think they walk on water...

I wanted to say something clever but I think BrainBuff has it covered.

 

[kdburton]

Well... There is lots of medicine in surgery, but there isn't any surgery in medicine (for the most part).

 

[DrDude]

I think a lot of it has to do with what one has to go through to become a surgeon. It seemed every other MS1 male student wanted to be a surgeon but after surgery rotation in MS3 few wanted to anymore. Kind of like in undergrad where every other student was premed but most were weeded out in one way or another and few made it to med school. Sure some found out they didn't enjoy surgery, but I'd say a lot liked it but couldn't/didn't want to handle the lifestyle that goes along with being a surgeon. So even though I might not go into surgery, I can still respect how hard those dudes work and the awesome things they accomplish. Refreshing to see people who work old-school hard at what they enjoy in an era where lots of people choose specialties that they're not particularly fond of but because it'll let them have easier hours.

 

[HEADintheCLOUDS]

Surgeons are held higher and are better. I am going to be a surgeon!

 

[Begaster]

Some of the most malignant, insecure, and downright intimidating attendings I've met are pediatricians. Really puzzling too me as I've met several pediatricians that are completely opposite.

I've always imagined that it takes a special kind of sociopath to berate his team-members and then turn around and be all smiles towards the kiddies. 😛

 

[vtucci]

I agree that there are egomaniacs in every specialty from surgery to GYN to primary care to internal med specialties. There are also incompetent physicians in every field from surgery through primary care.

While there is a stereotype of the malignant surgeon, I have been fortunate and my experience with the surgery department at USF was very pleasant. Uniformly sharp cookies and my general surgery and trauma surgery teams were comprised of nice and respectful men and women. Some of the best teaching I received during third year was from David Shapiro, trauma surgeon extraordinare. I had physical difficulties with the surgical rotation but thought my trauma rotation was a great learning experience. I only wish I could have spent the entire clerkship with trauma. It was a blast.

My worst experience of third year was GYN surgery (staffed by OB/GYN) and it was only the residents. The attendings were fantastic but the residents were very nasty to me. I could appreciate their technical skill (which was impressive) but their attitudes alienated me and left me with a huge distaste for the field.

 

[yohimbine1]

I don't understand why though; for example, I think it takes more brain work to be a cardiologist than to be an orthopaedic surgeon. In short, "physicians use their brains; surgeons use their hands."

It will take longer for surgery to be automated/computerized. Hands are a step further from CPUs than brains are.

That said, I'm avoiding it like the plague. The lifestyle is terrible and deep down I think many regret pursuing it.

 

[AK_MD2BE]

Surgeons are held with higher regard from people in the medical field b/c we know, respect, and recognize how extra-ordinarily difficult the training is.
Surgeons are held with higher regard from people outside of the medical field b/c surgery is glamorous/dangerous and pays extremely well (in most cases).

 

[lil pook]

i got mad respect for surgeons after doing this rotation.

always thought they were just meatheads, but it turns out they really know their **** (internal med wise)

and yeah, anyone who can stick their hands in someones body, without more than a few minor meltdowns, is in my mind, the tish

 

[Blesbok]

It will take longer for surgery to be automated/computerized. Hands are a step further from CPUs than brains are.

That said, I'm avoiding it like the plague. The lifestyle is terrible and deep down I think many regret pursuing it.

and you are looking at going into path?

 

[thestrugglingtraveler77]

I've never heard that surgeons are more esteemed. If anything they are victims of the stereotype that their skill is less cerebral and more a result of repetitive training. This is surprising considering that higher Step I scores are needed to get into the competitive surgical subspecialties.

Is that true? My dad is an oncologist and he has a great deal of respect for surgeons, he tells me that surgeons are the most respected and in the tumor board he does their cases first so they can leave. Definitely surgeons get the most respect, followed by oncologists.