Why aren't you interested in Osteopathy?

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nezlab99

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I was just curious if anyone on this board is interested in applying to osteopathic school for whatever reason, but is hesitant because of the general perception of the DO's inferiority to the MD.

I'm not saying either degree is superior, but I do know that significant discrimination exists.
 
I have never been fond of the history or general principles underlying osteopathy. I can't say I was ever considering it, regardless of the negative perceptions many hold about the profession.
 
I'm actually very interested in osteopathic medicine. One of my family members is a D.O. and i've been around the philosophy all my life. D.O.'s are just as intelligent as M.D.'s but they just have a different outlook when practicing medicine. They really focus on the patient and just not on the disease. D.O.'s have the same medical training as M.D.'s and can get the same residencies as M.D.', although most D.O.s go into family practice or peds. I am applying to both D.O and M.D schools hoping to get into one school. If I were accepted to a D.O and an M.D, i would probably pick D.O. However if i am only accepted to a M.D school i would go there. I really like the philosphy however if its not possible for me to go to a D.O. school, thats fine, i really just want to be a doctor. 😛 😀
 
Oh and by the way...i started a thread yesterday about the discrimination of osteopaths. There was one particular response that really annoyed me....just check it out below in the list.
 
What exactly is the do's philosophy?
 
These terms are pretty general. Could anyone tell me any specific difference (difference in curriculum, attitude to treatments) Until now, I thought that DO's are the ones who pressribes those "natural drugs."
 
I'm applying to 3 DO schools in addition to a bunch of MD schools.
 
As long as there is a Student Doctor Network Forum, there will be a thread regarding MD vs. DO. Please do some research into DO philosophy so that you may sort the ignorance from the valid points. It makes sense for anyone planning to become a physician to know the differences and similarities between allopathic and osteopathic schools of thought.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by SunnyOne:
•As long as there is a Student Doctor Network Forum, there will be a thread regarding MD vs. DO. Please do some research into DO philosophy so that you may sort the ignorance from the valid points. It makes sense for anyone planning to become a physician to know the differences and similarities between allopathic and osteopathic schools of thought.•••••Hence, the question. What is the DO school of thaught?
 
Damn it. Thought.
 
I have absolutely no reason for not choosing to apply to DO schools, save for the general "reputation" they have. The DO philosophy is fine and dandy, and I have no problems with it. The future in medicine, in my opinion, will not proceed along the lines of strictly DO or allopathic pathways, but instead a hybrid of many kinds of medicine (traditional allopathy, plus homeopathic, naturopathic etc.)

That said, i also believe that our medical system is too conservative, and our country too lobby controlled to allow major changes in attitude (for example the negative attitude toward homeopathic medicine).
 
I have a few friends doing DO, and from what I've seen, if you think Med School is hard, wait till you try DO. Not only are DO's trained as well as MDs, but they also have to learn a lot of hand manipulation stuff that MD's don't bother looking at. A few of these DO schools actually don't give you summers off b/c you have to learn the extra stuff before the 4 years are over.

There are two general principals in medicine that have prevailed through it's birth--
the first one being "cure the symptom = curb the disease" which is traditionally allopathic. the other one is "cure the root cause of disease, not just the symptoms by aggravating the symptoms more" which is traditionally DO/homeopathic. the latter didn't do very well in ancient history very well, and has had it's rebirth through "DO." Note: DO is NOT the same as homeopathic. More on that if asked. So, if you went to a DO, the doc would do a much more "holistic" exam on you...as opposed to an MD that will look at the symptom, prescribe you medication to cure the symptom (note, not the disease) and let you go. I believe prescriptive abilities of DOs and MDs are the same. You can't say the same about homeopaths and naturopaths--those are the true "natural stuff" people, and can't prescribe stuff like DO's and MD's can.

so bottom line, if you go to an MD with a problem in your foot, let's say you HEEL hurts, he may give you some anti-inflamm. drugs and let you go. If that doesn't work, he moves to the next therapy, perhaps a scan..or whatever. I am not sure of the sequence, but you know what I mean. 🙂 But if you went to a DO, he would probably take a look at your blood to see if it's anemia, and a few other things looking for the ROOT CAUSE of the problem, and fix THAT problem, instead of prescribing you something for just the pain.

I know this example is a big generalization, but I just want to cast a wide net and show you the big picture. My reason for not wanting to do DO is simple--I want to keep my doors open to academic medicine, and I don't see too many DO's doing that. I also don't like the idea of having even less time during summers learning a philosophy I am not sure I agree with. Furthermore, there are higher concentrations of DO's practising in Arizona, Texas and other places that actually have DO schools--none of these where I'd like to live since it's far from my family. (No offense to people living in those states).

Hope this makes more sense. 🙂
Tweetie
 
From what Tweetey says, it's sounds great. I do have a problem with homeopathic and anchient medicine. For the most part, that kind of medicine is pure BS and never been proven (see St John's Wort) Sometimes it has been proven right, like asperin, but I don't think things like that should be perscriobed until it has been proven to be effective.
I personally didn't apply to DO's because I thought there was a lot of this type of thing taught. Also there is the reputation. If you go to a DO school, a lot of doors are closed already, or at least harder to get through.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Jalbrekt:
•From what Tweetey says, it's sounds great. I do have a problem with homeopathic and anchient medicine. For the most part, that kind of medicine is pure BS and never been proven (see St John's Wort) Sometimes it has been proven right, like asperin, but I don't think things like that should be perscriobed until it has been proven to be effective.
I personally didn't apply to DO's because I thought there was a lot of this type of thing taught. Also there is the reputation. If you go to a DO school, a lot of doors are closed already, or at least harder to get through.•••••True, that's why I don't want to go DO--it closes a lot of my doors. Sure, it's a great field, I know of cardiothoracic surgeons who are also DO. but in response to your comment about things having to be "proven"...is not true. A LOT of allopathic medications are not proven to be helpful, we only do it b/c first or second phase clinical trials have shown that in small populations,they have helped. NOT ALL DRUGS you take out there are FDA approved, in fact, it would be safe to say most are not. Even allopathic medicine is truly experimental, people just don't realize it. The reason most of these drugs are not FDA appoved is b/c it takes so damn long to get it approved! The "moral" dilemma with this is the following--it is not good to put life saving/pain relieving medication on hold due to some beaurocratic red tape. Instead, they put it on the shelves with a big warning--"NOT FDA APPROVED." A lot of DO medications (since they are similar to MD) have been proven useful. Homeopathy and naturopathy--I won't even go there.

Tweetie
 
Homeopathy and naturopathy--I won't even go there.

That's what I'm talking about. That and herbal stuff.
 
This is from the AACOM Web site (http://www.aacom.org/om.html):

Osteopathic medicine is a distinctive form of medical practice in the United States. Osteopathic medicine provides all of the benefits of modern medicine including prescription drugs, surgery, and the use of technology to diagnose disease and evaluate injury. It also offers the added benefit of hands-on diagnosis and treatment through a system of therapy known as osteopathic manipulative medicine. Osteopathic Medicine emphasizes helping each person achieve a high level of wellness by focusing on health education, injury prevention and disease prevention.

Osteopathic medicine was founded in the late 1800s in Kirksville, Missouri by Andrew Taylor Still, M.D., who felt that the medical practices of the day often caused more harm than good. After losing members of his immediate family to meningitis, Still focused on developing a system of medical care that would promote the body's innate ability to heal itself. He called his system of medicine osteopathy, now known as osteopathic medicine.

Osteopathic physicians, also known as D.O.s, work in partnership with their patients. They consider the impact that lifestyle and community have on the health of each individual, and they work to erase barriers to good health. D.O.s are licensed to practice the full scope of medicine in all 50 states. They practice in all types of environments including the military, and in all types of specialties from family medicine to obstetrics, surgery, and aerospace medicine.

D.O.s are trained to look at the whole person from their first days of medical school, which means they see each person as more than just a collection of body parts that may become injured or diseased. This holistic approach to patient care means that osteopathic medical students learn how to integrate the patient into the health care process as a partner. They are trained to communicate with people from diverse backgrounds, and they get the opportunity to practice these skills in the classroom with simulated patients.

Because of this whole-person approach to medicine, approximately 60 percent of all D.O.s choose to practice in the primary care disciplines of family practice, general internal medicine and pediatrics. Approximately 40 percent of all D.O.s go on to specialize in a wide range of practice areas. If the medical specialty exists, you will find D.O.s there.

While America's 45,000 D.O.s account for only 5 percent of the country's physicians, they handle approximately 10 percent of all primary care visits. D.O.s also have a strong history of serving rural and underserved areas, often providing their unique brand of compassionate, patient-centered care to some of the most economically disadvantaged members of society.

In addition to studying all of the typical subjects you would expect student physicians to master, osteopathic medical students take approximately 200 additional hours of training in the art of osteopathic manipulative medicine. This system of hands-on techniques helps alleviate pain, restores motion, supports the body's natural functions and influence the body's structure to help it function more efficiently.

One key concept osteopathic medical students learn is that structure influences function. Thus, if there is a problem in one part of the body's structure, function in that area, and possibly in other areas, may be affected. For example, restriction of motion in the lower ribs, lumbar spine and abdomen can cause stomach pain with symptoms that mimic irritable bowel syndrome. By using osteopathic manipulative medicine techniques, D.O.s can help restore motion to these areas of the body thus improving gastrointestinal function, oftentimes restoring it to normal.

Another integral tenet of osteopathic medicine is the body's innate ability to heal itself. Many of osteopathic medicine's manipulative techniques are aimed at reducing or eliminating the impediments to proper structure and function so the self-healing mechanism can assume its role in restoring the person to health.

In addition to a strong history of providing high quality patient care, D.O.s conduct clinical and basic science research to help advance the frontiers of medicine and to demonstrate the effectiveness of the osteopathic approach to patient care. Currently, several national osteopathic organizations are working to facilitate the development of a national center for osteopathic clinical research. This facility's staff will help enhance osteopathic clinical outcomes research by serving as a national catalyst to develop and conduct multi-center, collaborative clinical research studies. Initially, studies will focus on demonstrating the effectiveness of osteopathic manipulative medicine as it applies to many facets of patient care.
 
This is from a post by Painman. It basically states what the prior post states....The New England Journal of Medicine November 4, 1999;341:1426-1431, 1465-1467.

The Paradox Of Osteopathy
In the spring of 1864, Andrew Taylor Still, a rural Kansas practitioner, watched helplessly as the best medications then available failed to save his three children from spinal meningitis. Bitterly disappointed, Still set out to devise an alternative healing practice. He eventually based his new system on the idea that manipulation of the spine could improve blood flow and thus improve health by allowing the body to heal itself. His philosophy included a healthy dose of moralism; patients were forbidden to consume any liquor and, as part of the break from existing practices, were also forbidden to take any medicine. Still founded a school to teach his new system of osteopathy in Kirksville, Missouri, in 1892.

Osteopathy was not the only system of spinal manipulation to be created in the late 19th century. Chiropractic, established in 1895 by Daniel David Palmer, aimed to relieve obstruction in the nerves rather than in the blood vessels. Osteopathy and chiropractic initially shared several characteristics. Both were founded when Americans freely chose from many systems of healing. Both were homegrown American systems created at about the same time by messianic Midwesterners. Both systems were seen by many Midwesterners as preferable to the reductionist European model of laboratory-based medicine, which was established most firmly on the eastern seaboard and was fast becoming the standard.

Over the course of the 20th century, medicine as practiced by M.D.'s (sometimes called allopathy) has come to dominate U.S. health care. Chiropractic and osteopathy, initially parts of a pluralistic medical system, have taken very different paths. Chiropractors have generally remained focused on spinal manipulation for a limited set of conditions, particularly those that are often resistant to allopathic therapy, such as back pain. Osteopaths, on the other hand, have worked hard to employ the entire therapeutic armamentarium of the modern physician, and in so doing they have moved closer to allopathy. )

The move toward assimilation became explicit in California in the early 1960s, when the California Medical Association and the California Osteopathic Association merged in what has been called the osteopathic profession's darkest hour. By attending a short seminar and paying $65, a doctor of osteopathy (D.O.) could obtain an M.D. degree; 86 percent of the D.O.'s in the state (out of a total of about 2000) chose to do so. The College of Osteopathic Physicians and Surgeons became the University of California College of Medicine, Irvine. Many osteopaths feared that the California merger was the wave of the future and that the profession would not survive. But it did, and in so doing it may have become even stronger. D.O.'s are now licensed in all 50 states to prescribe drugs, deliver babies, and perform surgery -- in short, to do anything that M.D.'s can do. Despite national recognition, osteopathy is still a regional phenomenon in ways that mirror its historical origin. The ratio of D.O.'s to the population varies by a factor of almost 3, from a low of 7.7 per 100,000 population in the West to a high of 20.4 per 100,000 in the Midwest; the number is 8.5 per 100,000 in the South and 18.3 per 100,000 in the Northeast. M.D.'s are far more evenly distributed throughout the country.

Osteopathy was originally created as a radical alternative to what was seen as a failing medical system. Its success at moving into the mainstream may have come at a cost -- the loss of identity. Most people -- including physicians -- know very little about the field (most people know more about chiropractic). Many people -- even osteopaths -- question what osteopathy has to offer that is distinctive.

Those who claim that osteopathy remains a unique system usually base their argument on two tenets. One is the holistic or patient-centered approach, with a focus on preventive care that they say characterizes osteopathy. That claim to uniqueness is hard to defend in the light of the increasing interest paid to this approach within general internal medicine and other areas of allopathic medicine. The other, potentially more robust, claim to uniqueness is the use of osteopathic manipulation as part of the overall therapeutic approach. In osteopathic manipulation, the bones, muscles, and tendons are manipulated to promote blood flow through tissues and thus enhance the body's own healing powers. The technique, based on the idea of a myofascial continuity that links every part of the body with every other part, involves the "skillful and dexterous use of the hands" to treat what was once called the osteopathic lesion but is now referred to as somatic dysfunction. Osteopathic manipulation is not well known (or practiced) by allopathic physicians, but for decades it has stood as the core therapeutic method of osteopathic medicine.

Some claim that osteopathic physicians are more parsimonious in their use of medical technology. Thus, they can provide more cost-effective medical care and reduce the need for medications, which, although effective, can have serious side effects. The specific mechanism that would account for any improvement in back pain directly related to osteopathic manipulation is unclear, but the most important studies will be those that test whether the technique works in clinical practice. Part of the success of osteopathic manipulation for patients with back pain may come from the fact that physicians who use osteopathic manipulation touch their patients.

Osteopathic manual therapy is claimed to be useful for treating a wide range of conditions, from pancreatitis to Parkinson's disease, sinusitis, and asthma. Some leading osteopaths say that manual therapy should be part of almost every visit to an osteopathic physician. A recent president of the American Osteopathic Association claimed that he "almost always turned to [osteopathic manipulation] before considering any other modality," and he asserted that 90 percent of his patients got better with osteopathic manipulation alone. Such claims underscore a raging debate within osteopathy and a disconnection between its theories and its practice. A 1995 survey of 1055 osteopathic family physicians found that they used manual therapy only occasionally; only 6.2 percent used osteopathic manipulation for more than half of their patients, and almost a third used it for fewer than 5 percent. The more recent their graduation from medical school, the less likely practitioners were to use osteopathic manipulation, a finding consistent with the view that osteopathic practice is moving closer to allopathic practice. A decreasing interest in osteopathic manipulation may also indicate that more physicians enter osteopathic medical school not as a result of a deeply held belief in the osteopathic philosophy but after failing to be admitted to allopathic medical schools. The osteopathic physicians who are more committed to osteopathic manipulation tend to be more likely than their colleagues to have a fundamentalist religious orientation.

With or without manipulation therapy, osteopathic medicine seems to be undergoing resurgence. Although the number of allopathic medical schools in the United States has remained stable since 1980, at about 125, the number of osteopathic medical schools has increased from 14 to 19. The number of graduates each year has increased at an even more disproportionate rate. The number of graduates of allopathic medical schools has increased only slightly, from 15,135 in 1980 to 15,923 in 1997, whereas the number of graduates of osteopathic medical schools has almost doubled, from 1059 to 2009, over the same period. Osteopathic medical schools have not done as well as allopathic medical schools in recruiting underrepresented minorities and women, and students entering osteopathic medical schools have somewhat lower grade-point averages and lower scores on the Medical College Admission Test. On the other hand, the ratio of applicants to those admitted is higher for osteopathic medical schools, 3.5 applicants for each person admitted, as compared with 2.4 for allopathic medical schools.

Overall, osteopathic medical schools have come to resemble allopathic medical schools in most respects; some students even share classes. Graduates of osteopathic medical schools more often than not go on to residency training in allopathic programs. An evaluation of performance on the certifying examination of the American Board of Internal Medicine in the 1980s noted that although physicians from osteopathic medical schools did not do as well as those from allopathic programs, overall they "did well" and could be an "untapped reservoir of talented physicians" for internal medicine.

Although they constitute only about 5 percent of U.S. physicians, osteopaths may be disproportionately important for the health care system by virtue of their distribution in terms of specialty and location: 60 percent of graduates of osteopathic medical schools select generalist fields. Because osteopathic education is more community-based than allopathic education, and because osteopathic schools are smaller, osteopathic education may be able to adapt more quickly to new approaches to health care delivery. Many more osteopaths than allopaths (18.1 percent vs. 11.5 percent) select rural areas in which to practice. One osteopathic medical school found that 20 percent of its graduates were practicing in underserved communities.

At the end of the century, osteopathy continues its uneasy dance with allopathy, but only one partner is really paying attention. The resurgence in the numbers of osteopaths should not mask the precarious position of osteopathy. At its birth, osteopathy was a radical concept, rejecting much of what allopathic medicine claimed was new and useful. Today, osteopathic medicine has moved close to the mainstream -- close enough that in general it is no longer considered alternative medicine. The long-term survival of osteopathic medicine will depend on its ability to define itself as distinct from and yet still equivalent to allopathic medicine. That argument may best be articulated not in theoretical terms, but by demonstrating treatment outcomes. The paradox is this: if osteopathy has become the functional equivalent of allopathy, what is the justification for its continued existence? And if there is value in therapy that is uniquely osteopathic -- that is, based on osteopathic manipulation or other techniques -- why should its use be limited to osteopaths?

Joel D. Howell, M.D., Ph.D. University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48109-0604

The New England Journal of Medicine November 4, 1999;341:1426-1431, 1465-1467.

[Editors Comment]
COMMENT: I rarely print an entire article; but this one is a rare exception. I am an osteopathic physician and I have never read a more eloquent and accurate assessment of osteopathic medicine. This is a classic. I believe I will reprint this article and hand it out to patients who wish to know what an osteopathic physician really is. I have mixed feelings about having chosen to be a D.O. as I chose it for its natural philosophical orientation. In reality however, as Dr. Howell so beautifully describes, there is essentially little difference between a D.O. and an M.D. I did find it interesting that it is actually harder to get into a D.O. school than an M.D. school. One of my friends could not get accepted into an osteopathic medical school and had to go to a regular medical school. Patients frequently ask for a physician who practices medicine like I do and mistakenly believe that all D.O.'s practice natural medicine. I have to regrettably tell them that this is not so and that they are better off contacting ACAM for a referral (800-532-3688) as most ACAM physicians are at least oriented towards natural medicine and more open to those alternatives. I do believe that the selection process for osteopathic schools is oriented to identifying other variables than grades and test scores, which tends to produce more empathic physicians.
 
thanks for giving my post some much-needed traffic, SuzieQ!
 
That description of osteopathy was great! Generalized and accurate...nice!
 
I was going to apply to a couple DO schools but decided not to. One of the main reasons is that I want to do radiation oncology, and I want to focus on treating the disease (i.e., cancer). There's nothing wrong with the DO philosophy. Preventive medicine is great, a holistic approach to patient care is great, but I want to help those whose lives have already been drastically altered by cancer. Treating the disease is more important to me hence my choice to go MD.
 
at one point i thought osteopathy was running along the same line as naturopathy and homeopathy, both of which i personally find somewhat "out there." i think the holistic approach the osteopaths take in their eval/treatment is great, but just as any other MD who take time to get to the patients better by taking a much more indept social history, including lifestyle, occupation etc. i mean, MDs often do consult patients to other allied health professionals such as PTs, OTs, SLPs, dieticians, pharmacists etc, all of whom, working together can provide a sound & reasonable treatment plan under a multidisciplinary approach.
 
I am a DO student, so I thought I would add my two cents worth (even though I am sick of these MD vs. DO discussions 🙄 )
First off, let me clarify that in DO schools we do NOT learn about such things as homeopathy and naturopathic medicine. The only time homeopathy was ever mentioned to us was in the history of MEDICINE. It is not an osteopathic belief and we do not learn anything about it.
The main belief of DO's is that "the body is a unit," and that is the basis of the osteopathic manipulative techniques that DO's practice. Some of the stuff may seem "out there" for some people (some of the manipulations and such) but I guarantee that once any person has had any manipulation done on him/her by a DO, they will agree that manipulation actually does work.
I also don't feel that DO's have a lot of "closed doors." Granted, if you want to specialize in something like plastic surgery, it will be easier for you to get a residency if you were an MD. But there are DO's out there in ALL specialties, so it must be possible. A DO student who works really hard and is really good at what they do can have just as much opportunity getting what they want as MDs.
I guess my post doesn't answer the question that was the subject of this topic, "why aren't you interested in osteopathy?" but I just wanted to add in my opinion.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by SuzyQ:
• They really focus on the patient and just not on the disease. •••••I love this quote and it is so true. I go to a MD school and everyday the lectures tell us "now remember class focus on the illness because the patient doesn't matter." 😀
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by moo:
•I was going to apply to a couple DO schools but decided not to. One of the main reasons is that I want to do radiation oncology, and I want to focus on treating the disease (i.e., cancer). There's nothing wrong with the DO philosophy. Preventive medicine is great, a holistic approach to patient care is great, but I want to help those whose lives have already been drastically altered by cancer. Treating the disease is more important to me hence my choice to go MD.•••••You can go into any specialty you like when you are a DO, including Radiation Oncology. In fact, I can think of a ton of ways a DO can be beneficial to a cancer patient...i.e., Manipulative Medicine...just because a patient is already "altered" by a disease doesn't mean you can't still improve the patient's quality of life.

Just my two cents. 😀

KM, MS3
WesternU/Comp
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Tweetie_bird:
•so bottom line, if you go to an MD with a problem in your foot, let's say you HEEL hurts, he may give you some anti-inflamm. drugs and let you go. If that doesn't work, he moves to the next therapy, perhaps a scan..or whatever. I am not sure of the sequence, but you know what I mean. 🙂 But if you went to a DO, he would probably take a look at your blood to see if it's anemia, and a few other things looking for the ROOT CAUSE of the problem, and fix THAT problem, instead of prescribing you something for just the pain.

Tweetie•••••I was laughing until I realized you were serious.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Tweetie_bird:

so bottom line, if you go to an MD with a problem in your foot, let's say you HEEL hurts, he may give you some anti-inflamm. drugs and let you go. If that doesn't work, he moves to the next therapy, perhaps a scan..or whatever. I am not sure of the sequence, but you know what I mean. 🙂 But if you went to a DO, he would probably take a look at your blood to see if it's anemia, and a few other things looking for the ROOT CAUSE of the problem, and fix THAT problem, instead of prescribing you something for just the pain.

Tweetie•••••This is not entirely true...I would try using a better example...no offense! We won't let the patient live in pain. We can prescribe anti-inflammatories, too! But we, as a DO, will ALSO try and determine the cause the anemia so that they won't be anemic anymore. Maybe it's iron deficiency? maybe it's Vitamin B12 deficiency? Crhonic disease. By finding this out, we can eliminate the source of the pain. Plain and simple. :wink:
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Kiki2004:
• •••quote:•••Originally posted by moo:
•I was going to apply to a couple DO schools but decided not to. One of the main reasons is that I want to do radiation oncology, and I want to focus on treating the disease (i.e., cancer). There's nothing wrong with the DO philosophy. Preventive medicine is great, a holistic approach to patient care is great, but I want to help those whose lives have already been drastically altered by cancer. Treating the disease is more important to me hence my choice to go MD.•••••You can go into any specialty you like when you are a DO, including Radiation Oncology. In fact, I can think of a ton of ways a DO can be beneficial to a cancer patient...i.e., Manipulative Medicine...just because a patient is already "altered" by a disease doesn't mean you can't still improve the patient's quality of life.

Just my two cents. 😀

KM, MS3
WesternU/Comp•••••Yes, I realize that. In fact there is a DO among radiology residents at the U-dub in Seattle. I'm just saying the MD philosophy suits me and my future goals better. If I wanted to do family practice, a DO will probably be a better option than an MD.
 
•••quote:••• But if you went to a DO, he would probably take a look at your blood to see if it's anemia, and a few other things looking for the ROOT CAUSE of the problem, and fix THAT problem, instead of prescribing you something for just the pain.••••did this part bother anyone else? i agree that allo has its faults, tweety, but i highly disagree with the generalization that allo dr's merely opt to treat symptoms...in some cases, this is true, but i would dare say that the aim is ALWAYS attempting to treat the root of the problem, in each branch. perhaps an osteopathic doctor is more likely to take into account social factors causing migraine, etc, but if a patient comes in with persistent headache, i highly doubt a competent allopathic dr would ignore the problem and send the pt out with some naproxen.
 
yes, that bothered me, too...

and again, the pre-conceived notion that DO's HAVE to or SHOULD go into Primary Care is not fair.

kiki~
 
well im laughing at you because i want you to correct what you think is so funny.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Kiki2004:
We can prescribe anti-inflammatories, too! But we, as a DO, will ALSO try and determine the cause the anemia so that they won't be anemic anymore. Maybe it's iron deficiency? maybe it's Vitamin B12 deficiency? Crhonic disease. By finding this out, we can eliminate the source of the pain. Plain and simple. :wink: [/QB]••••Hi Kiki

I'm a bit new around here and not from to US, I was seeking some clarity on the difference in attitude between MD's and DO's.
Are you saying that if a patient approaches an MD about a symptomatic complaint, that the MD's treatment is entirely directed at relieving symptoms only?
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by strangeattractor:
• •••quote:••• But if you went to a DO, he would probably take a look at your blood to see if it's anemia, and a few other things looking for the ROOT CAUSE of the problem, and fix THAT problem, instead of prescribing you something for just the pain.••••did this part bother anyone else? i agree that allo has its faults, tweety, but i highly disagree with the generalization that allo dr's merely opt to treat symptoms...in some cases, this is true, but i would dare say that the aim is ALWAYS attempting to treat the root of the problem, in each branch. perhaps an osteopathic doctor is more likely to take into account social factors causing migraine, etc, but if a patient comes in with persistent headache, i highly doubt a competent allopathic dr would ignore the problem and send the pt out with some naproxen.•••••Hi guys,
Yes, I agree with what you said, and I did mention that I was making a generalization. I initially didn't want to reply to Jalbrekt's question b/c I was afraid that others might jump on my generalization, but I really was doing it like I said to contrast...not make any judgements on either profession. I think both are great in their own way. I am just re-iterating what I've been told over and over again by my DO friends and contrasted that with MD friends. 🙂 Don't bite the messenger. 🙂
Anyway, my apologies if I offended anybody.
Tweetie
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Tweetie_bird:
• if you go to an MD with a problem in your foot, let's say you HEEL hurts, he may give you some anti-inflamm. drugs and let you go. If that doesn't work, he moves to the next therapy, perhaps a scan..or whatever. I am not sure of the sequence, but you know what I mean. 🙂 But if you went to a DO, he would probably take a look at your blood to see if it's anemia, and a few other things looking for the ROOT CAUSE of the problem, and fix THAT problem, instead of prescribing you something for just the pain.

•••••I wanted to avoid this discussion like the plague, but this part needed addressing. If I had a problem with my foot, such as you describe, I would see a podiatrist (DPM). I know that they get blasted from time to time, but I think that they are unequivocally the experts in non-surgical foot and ankle problems.

Now for the rest. At this point in my life, I want to be a radiologist. Medical school, right now, is a means to that end. I applied to DO and MD schools and was accepted to both, hell UMDNJ-SOM is about $10K cheaper a year, but I chose Temple. Why? I am interested in radiology and so I asked some practicing DO radiologists in my area (with PCOM so close, there are a few) what they would do if they could do it again. Both said that 1)they never use Osteopathic principles in their work and that 2)looking beyond schooling to residency, fellowship and employment it would be easier to pick and choose with an MD as opposed to a DO. I asked them to bottom line it for me and this is what I was told. I also want to stay in the Philadelphia area for residency (no DO residencies in PA for radiology, allopathic ones are really competitive) and my career and I felt that Temple had better name recognition, better clinical opportunities, better reasearch opportunities, and a better opportunity to network and do away rotations at area hospitals without disrupting my family life. Also not too excited about taking 2 sets or boards (from what I hear a necessity for Rad).To me it isn't so much a problem with osteopathy or being a DO, I think many times there are lots of reasons for one choosing one or the other. I just made the best choice for me given what I would like to do in the future.
 
Thanks for all of the replies guys. I don't want this to be a allo vs osteo thing, I just wanted to know why you chose allo over osteo(or vice versa).
Personally, I think the osteo philosophy sounds great, but I think it sounds a little too much like propaganda. If osteo is as compassionate and holistic as it claims, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work for me. The only thing I'm afraid of is that it could narrow my horizons. Also, I'm not saying that osteo students are stupid or anything, but in general, they do have lower stats. I'm not sure if I want to go to a school where the average MCAT is 25 and GPA is 3.25 (estimated numbers). I want to be part of a student body that is smart, and these numbers are my only indicators.
I'm not saying any of this is absolute truth, they are just my own personal doubts. I wanted to hear what yall's were.
 
Hey there
I would not be too quick to judge people with a 3.25 as not smart. Be careful. Althoug my GPA is "only" a 3.5 I would never think someone with a 3.25 was not smart. Actually, depending on major, etc I would think they were pretty smart.
 
I'm not saying someone with any GPA is automatically not smart. That would not be smart. I am aware of all sorts of factors that influence one's GPA. But, these are the only numbers I am aware of that I can use to judge the intellect of the student body. I know there are all sorts of indvidual special cases, but something can be said for averages.
 
I see your point🙂
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Tweetie_bird:
•I have a few friends doing DO, and from what I've seen, if you think Med School is hard, wait till you try DO. Not only are DO's trained as well as MDs, but they also have to learn a lot of hand manipulation stuff that MD's don't bother looking at. A few of these DO schools actually don't give you summers off b/c you have to learn the extra stuff before the 4 years are over.

There are two general principals in medicine that have prevailed through it's birth--
the first one being "cure the symptom = curb the disease" which is traditionally allopathic. the other one is "cure the root cause of disease, not just the symptoms by aggravating the symptoms more" which is traditionally DO/homeopathic. the latter didn't do very well in ancient history very well, and has had it's rebirth through "DO." Note: DO is NOT the same as homeopathic. More on that if asked. So, if you went to a DO, the doc would do a much more "holistic" exam on you...as opposed to an MD that will look at the symptom, prescribe you medication to cure the symptom (note, not the disease) and let you go. I believe prescriptive abilities of DOs and MDs are the same. You can't say the same about homeopaths and naturopaths--those are the true "natural stuff" people, and can't prescribe stuff like DO's and MD's can.

so bottom line, if you go to an MD with a problem in your foot, let's say you HEEL hurts, he may give you some anti-inflamm. drugs and let you go. If that doesn't work, he moves to the next therapy, perhaps a scan..or whatever. I am not sure of the sequence, but you know what I mean. 🙂 But if you went to a DO, he would probably take a look at your blood to see if it's anemia, and a few other things looking for the ROOT CAUSE of the problem, and fix THAT problem, instead of prescribing you something for just the pain.

I know this example is a big generalization, but I just want to cast a wide net and show you the big picture. My reason for not wanting to do DO is simple--I want to keep my doors open to academic medicine, and I don't see too many DO's doing that. I also don't like the idea of having even less time during summers learning a philosophy I am not sure I agree with. Furthermore, there are higher concentrations of DO's practising in Arizona, Texas and other places that actually have DO schools--none of these where I'd like to live since it's far from my family. (No offense to people living in those states).

Hope this makes more sense. 🙂
Tweetie•••••I don't care to add to the current debate. I only want to point out that this comment is completely off base. To imply that MD's treat only symptoms and ignore the underlying basis of a patients disease demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of modern medical practice, DO or MD. Please tweetie, show a little more respect for our profession and refrain from posting your fantasies as though they were facts. You're embarrassing yourself

Bonecutter
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by nezlab99:
•I'm not saying that osteo students are stupid or anything, but in general, they do have lower stats. I'm not sure if I want to go to a school where the average MCAT is 25 and GPA is 3.25 (estimated numbers). I want to be part of a student body that is smart, and these numbers are my only indicators.•••••I don't want to add to the whole DO vs. MD debate either, but I found this highly insulting. I know you already explained what you meant by your post and I appreciate that, but I just want to clear this up. Being in med school for two years already, I have come to the conclusion that however you performed in undergrad is not much of an indication on how you will do in med school. I did extremely well in undergrad, but that didn't mean I could slack off. Med school is tough! If you haven't gone through it, you would have no idea what I am talking about. To me, undergraduate GPA's mean nothing. I am a DO student now and I would never say that I am with a student body that is not smart! This is ridiculous! Some of the brightest people in my class are by no means stupid! So with that being said, GPA's can no way be an indicator of the medical student body. I'm sorry to hear that you think you need to be at a school with a smart student body, but the bottom line is, when you are in medical school (allopathic OR osteopathic)you are considered to be the top 1% in the country...so to say that medical schools accept dumb people is wrong. I personally know of many former college acquaintances with GPA's around 2.7 that got into allopathic schools, i.e., Harvard, Stanford, UCLA (they are notorious for this) so are they stupid??

I'm sorry if I got worked up, it just bothered me to think that I may be "dumb". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />
 
Hi jonty-

Welcome to SDN, I would be more than happy to tell you about the Osteopathic profession, you can email me if you like. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Allopathic medicine, I just get tired of hearing people say osteopathy is a load of crap. Allopathic AND osteopathic doctors are both great, we just have a different way of thinking about the patient. 🙂

kiki~
 
Most of my friends are going to be DO's

I'm going to learn OMM after my MD training at one of the DO schools.

Or maybe during my residency I will be able to get the training.

I wonder if I can get a license to practice it after I learn even though I didn't go to a DO school

AK
 
•••quote:••• Some of the brightest people in my class are by no means stupid! So with that being said, GPA's can no way be an indicator of the medical student body. I'm sorry to hear that you think you need to be at a school with a smart student body, but the bottom line is, when you are in medical school (allopathic OR osteopathic)you are considered to be the top 1% in the country...so to say that medical schools accept dumb people is wrong.••••settle down. I specifically said I don't think osteo students are stupid.
Why would anyone be sorry to hear that I want to be part of a smart student body?
I don't believe osteo students are "dumb" either. I, too believe that statment would be wrong, but I didn't make it. I don't think that any type of medical student is "stupid," "dumb," or "not smart." I use the term "smart" relatively. I apologize if I came across judgmental, but it would seem that these numbers have some validity seeing as how all medical school applications request them.

I'm not bashing osteos, so quit getting defensive. Like I said, I myself am considering it. I just know that I have worked my a$$ off for my numbers, and they do mean something to me.
 
Kiki2004:

I think it really depends on the doctor's own personal beliefs. You can learn principles but if you don't want to practice medicine that way you don't have to.

I know my personal physician treats me not the symptoms. He looks at the illness the emotional aspects, my personal feeling about the illness.

He is an MD. It doesn't matter. I know DO's that practice no different than a MD.

AK
 
I'm sorry if my post sounded "defensive". I am studying for boards right now and I am going car-azzzzzzy! 😡

Hence, the reason why I am dropping in on SDN from time to time. I need the break.

Please don't think I was attacking you. I am sorry if I came across like that. 🙂
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by bonecutter:
• •••quote:•••Originally posted by Tweetie_bird:
•I have a few friends doing DO, and from what I've seen, if you think Med School is hard, wait till you try DO. Not only are DO's trained as well as MDs, but they also have to learn a lot of hand manipulation stuff that MD's don't bother looking at. A few of these DO schools actually don't give you summers off b/c you have to learn the extra stuff before the 4 years are over.

There are two general principals in medicine that have prevailed through it's birth--
the first one being "cure the symptom = curb the disease" which is traditionally allopathic. the other one is "cure the root cause of disease, not just the symptoms by aggravating the symptoms more" which is traditionally DO/homeopathic. the latter didn't do very well in ancient history very well, and has had it's rebirth through "DO." Note: DO is NOT the same as homeopathic. More on that if asked. So, if you went to a DO, the doc would do a much more "holistic" exam on you...as opposed to an MD that will look at the symptom, prescribe you medication to cure the symptom (note, not the disease) and let you go. I believe prescriptive abilities of DOs and MDs are the same. You can't say the same about homeopaths and naturopaths--those are the true "natural stuff" people, and can't prescribe stuff like DO's and MD's can.

so bottom line, if you go to an MD with a problem in your foot, let's say you HEEL hurts, he may give you some anti-inflamm. drugs and let you go. If that doesn't work, he moves to the next therapy, perhaps a scan..or whatever. I am not sure of the sequence, but you know what I mean. 🙂 But if you went to a DO, he would probably take a look at your blood to see if it's anemia, and a few other things looking for the ROOT CAUSE of the problem, and fix THAT problem, instead of prescribing you something for just the pain.

I know this example is a big generalization, but I just want to cast a wide net and show you the big picture. My reason for not wanting to do DO is simple--I want to keep my doors open to academic medicine, and I don't see too many DO's doing that. I also don't like the idea of having even less time during summers learning a philosophy I am not sure I agree with. Furthermore, there are higher concentrations of DO's practising in Arizona, Texas and other places that actually have DO schools--none of these where I'd like to live since it's far from my family. (No offense to people living in those states).

Hope this makes more sense. 🙂
Tweetie•••••I don't care to add to the current debate. I only want to point out that this comment is completely off base. To imply that MD's treat only symptoms and ignore the underlying basis of a patients disease demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of modern medical practice, DO or MD. Please tweetie, show a little more respect for our profession and refrain from posting your fantasies as though they were facts. You're embarrassing yourself

Bonecutter•••••Bonecutter--
You're the kind of person I usually keep in mind and am weary of when I try and help out other people. I know my generalizations are going to be attacked, even though I have said it in BOLD that it's a generalization. Please, read my ENTIRE post before making such comments. And in regard to the comments being offbase, they are only as offbase as most of my medical students and DO's have made them out to be. I don't have to spell out my resume, but have seen plenty to be able to make generalizations about certain aspects of medicine, espcially since some of my closest friends are both, MD's and DO's. So next time you try and insult somebody who actually tried to help, make sure you're doing more good than harm. It only makes you look like the fool.

I'll be 'off' SDN for a while. So much for trying to do some good......

Tweetie
 
Can we not have a constructive conversation about osteo and allo? I really think people have a lot to contribute without offending other people. I want to get some information about why you personally chose allopathy over osteopathy. Let us please steer away from the classic allopathy versus osteopathy thread.
 
I personally feel medicine, like everything else, is what you make of it. If you think you are going to be using different books or only training under specifically a DO or MD in either profession you are wrong. You will not have to the time to worry about the difference when you are out of school so don't worry about it now. The idea that DO's are more compassionate is ridiculous, people are compassionate because they care, that cannot be taught. You will have the access in both types of schools to excel in your profession if you choose to do so. If you want to know the difference read about each, go to the schools and find out, both philo's are much the same.
 
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