Why being middle class sucks for school.

  • Thread starter Thread starter exmissionary
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E

exmissionary

Because your parents are too poor to help you with school and too rich to qualify for any type of aid.

Out of my three roommates, the first: Grandma pays for school, the second: family is so poor government subsidizes part of education, the third: smart enough for a full ride scholarship.

I pay for everything out of pocket.

Did I miss something?
 
Yea i would so much rather be poor than middle class. 🙄

Keep it relative, I know where your coming from but come on.
 
Because your parents are too poor to help you with school and too rich to qualify for any type of aid.

Out of my three roommates, the first: Grandma pays for school, the second: family is so poor government subsidizes part of education, the third: smart enough for a full ride scholarship.

I pay for everything out of pocket.

Did I miss something?

I'm wondering the same thing you are: Did I miss something? What was I supposed to do differently? My parents are divorced and my dad hasn't given me a penny in over three years. My mom is way too poor to help me and though I do get some federal subsidized loans, it's not enough and I don't get any scholarships. I mean, I have a 4.0, doesn't that count for anything? But no, I guess not. It makes me nauseated to think about how much debt I'm in already and I'm only a junior in undergrad this year.
 
I WOULD think like that, but then I realized how lucky I was to have been able to grow up with my parents in a comfortable environment that they worked hard to produce for my sister and I. If I have to take a couple loans out to fund my education, then so be it. 🙂 Just saying, maybe some perspective would help the situation.
 
No, you didn't miss anything.
You did forget thought, that should you get a steady job that pays well and supports you in some sort of comfort, you will be touted as a middle class sell-out that doesn't know anything about having it tough.
 
Being poor is not a comfortable enviroment, I would much rather pay for school than live in some of the places I have lived.

I can understand your envy of having a rich grandmother but being jealous of 4 people living in a studio apartment is nothing to be jealous of.
 
middle class > disadvantaged any day.
 
Because your parents are too poor to help you with school and too rich to qualify for any type of aid.

Out of my three roommates, the first: Grandma pays for school, the second: family is so poor government subsidizes part of education, the third: smart enough for a full ride scholarship.

I pay for everything out of pocket.

Did I miss something?
Cry me a river.
 
work and take out loans.

get a good job and pay off said loans.



problem solved. i know where you're coming from...i'm already in alot of debt because the brunt of paying for my education lies mostly on my shoulders. but i was lucky in that i had the opportunity to get a good education and also the ability to get a good job...assuming i get into medical school of course 😀


look on the bright side - even though some people on this site seem to think you need upwards of $200,000 to live a comfortable life, since you lived a middle class life...living with anything over $125,000 will give you the extra feeling of being self-made. 👍


shove that in grandmama's boy's face.
 
Because your parents are too poor to help you with school and too rich to qualify for any type of aid.

Out of my three roommates, the first: Grandma pays for school, the second: family is so poor government subsidizes part of education, the third: smart enough for a full ride scholarship.

I pay for everything out of pocket.

Did I miss something?

Word.
 
Would you rather be so poor you couldnt afford college (and require subsidized loans). Debating day and night whether you will even get the federal aid to be able to attend?

OR

Wealthy enough to get loans and not worry whether college is an option. And not having to worry whether doing X or Y with friends/family is an option (due to finances), etc.

I realize it's not the perfect scenario (I would rather have millionaire parents who pay for everything), but it is better than being poorer and requiring a subsidized education. There is always someone in a better situation and a worse situation... don't exclusively envy those in the best situation, but also be grateful you are in a better situation than others.
 
Cry me a river.

256306-200705021335.jpg
 
I'm lucky in that I have AccessUVA paying for almost 100% of my education. But were I at almost any other school, that wouldn't be the case. So I consider myself lucky.

But hey, at least you have money to live off of. I'm trying to make it off $40 this week after rent and electricity. I have to get gas to make it home. Sweet, huh?
 
haha i feel lucky, because of where i live.. the government pays for tuition (only $2000 per semester actually), books (only $400 per semester), airtravel (to school, back from school, to home from christmas and back from christmas) and $700 per month for 4 years of school.

And if you get into med school, they'll basically pay for it
 
Sorry, but I agree with exmissionary.

Seems like private, OOS schools are for the very rich, or very poor. I had a friend in high school in a very low income bracket, and he was able to pay for school (a private university in Louisiana) for about $2K per year after federal aid alone. I got into the same school in a lower middle-class income bracket with a substantial academic scholarship and outside scholarships, and it still would've cost me about $20K in loans. That's a huge freakin' difference. We went to the same high school, and lived about a mile or two away from each other. I mean, I wanted to go to an OOS school so bad when I applied for undergrad--applied for tons of scholarships, recieved academic scholarships from most of the universities I was accepted to. Including full-tuition at one. But with freshmen being required to live on-campus (look at the prices of dorms at some private schools per semester, geeez), other OOS living expenses, and fees, it still wasn't enough (my parents didn't help with paying for school either, I don't think they should've had to, anyway). I feel your pain. Private schools are ridiculously expensive. I know so many people taking out $50K in loans per year for their undergraduate degrees. I said screw that, I would like to graduate med school with <$300,000 in debt, so I go to a state school. I know a guy who went to my UG, med school at Stanford, and residency at Harvard. No kidding. Radiologist. Everyone keeps telling me "undergrad is what you make of it", and from what I've seen so far, I agree.

Maybe private schools will get the hint when more and more intelligent people elect to stay in-state for their UGs cos we can't afford to do otherwise (seems like starting to lean that way now even). Until then, c'est la vie.
 
This is pretty much how it is with everything in life. The middle class are not poor enough to qualify for aid-whatever it may be-but not rich enough to be able to pay for it alone.
 
Should've done better in high school.

FWIW, I worked incredibly hard in high school and was in the top of my class. Unfortunately, most of the more prestigious private schools don't give merit aid anymore. I was accepted at several top schools and chose a lesser-known school because they gave me a huge scholarship.
 
This is pretty much how it is with everything in life. The middle class are not poor enough to qualify for aid-whatever it may be-but not rich enough to be able to pay for it alone.

Well said! 👍

I consider myself 'poor' because the government pays for my tuition... so yeah.
 
Maybe private schools will get the hint when more and more intelligent people elect to stay in-state for their UGs cos we can't afford to do otherwise (seems like starting to lean that way now even). Until then, c'est la vie.

Public, state schools are state schools because they receive state funding!

Private schools obviously do not receive the same state funding and are accordingly more expensive.

It is expensive to send a student through your university (professor fees, building expenses, faculty, etc. etc.) and it is much more expensive for a private school since they do not receive state funding.

Private schools are more expensive out of necessity and will always remain that way.
 
Because your parents are too poor to help you with school and too rich to qualify for any type of aid.

Out of my three roommates, the first: Grandma pays for school, the second: family is so poor government subsidizes part of education, the third: smart enough for a full ride scholarship.

I pay for everything out of pocket.

Did I miss something?

Amen to that.
 
Solution: ask your parents to switch to lower paying jobs.
 
^^^lol^^^

Granted you have no idea what it's like checking your moms paycheck at the end of the year just to make sure her YTD isn't more than last years because then you won't qualify for a full pell grant. Or making sure that you don't make a certain amount of money because then you'll have to start paying for school on your own because the government thinks that your 10k plus your moms 35K is just enough to pay your tuition+books+room&board for that year.
 
The middle class really carries the brunt of the rest in a lot of situations, college education being one of them. One thing to keep in mind though is that those disadvantaged students you see who are being pampered by the government as far as tuition were largely being dealt nothing the first 18 years of their life.

Best advice I could give if you don't feel you're quite competitive to secure a full scholarship would be to just look for outside sources of money and lots of them. FastWeb is a good albeit tedious resource for this. Also, there's nothing wrong with state educations. I understand if you want to leave but I'm just saying that at the very least a state education generally isn't that bad.
 
FWIW, I worked incredibly hard in high school and was in the top of my class. Unfortunately, most of the more prestigious private schools don't give merit aid anymore. I was accepted at several top schools and chose a lesser-known school because they gave me a huge scholarship.
That's the name of the game. I know people say not to worry about the med school debt, but I'll be keeping an extra 200k in my pocket compared to some of my peers.
 
Because your parents are too poor to help you with school and too rich to qualify for any type of aid.

Out of my three roommates, the first: Grandma pays for school, the second: family is so poor government subsidizes part of education, the third: smart enough for a full ride scholarship.

I pay for everything out of pocket.

Did I miss something?

Nope... you didn't miss anything. most of the "poor" people around where I live drive nice cars, get free meds, and basically have a grand old time reproducing like rabbits to keep their monthy salary (i.e. welfare check) up... course I would not say this is how all people below the poverty line live, some are legitimately disadvantaged (I've seen it).. but these people are just malingering fat trailer park trash with an endless line of excuses for why they can't contribute anything to society.
 
Nope... you didn't miss anything. most of the "poor" people around where I live drive nice cars, get free meds, and basically have a grand old time reproducing like rabbits to keep their monthy salary (i.e. welfare check) up... course I would not say this is how all people below the poverty line live, some are legitimately disadvantaged (I've seen it).. but these people are just malingering fat trailer park trash with an endless line of excuses for why they can't contribute anything to society.
HAHA, i like you, lmao.
 
Nope... you didn't miss anything. most of the "poor" people around where I live drive nice cars, get free meds, and basically have a grand old time reproducing like rabbits to keep their monthy salary (i.e. welfare check) up... course I would not say this is how all people below the poverty line live, some are legitimately disadvantaged (I've seen it).. but these people are just malingering fat trailer park trash with an endless line of excuses for why they can't contribute anything to society.
The thing is about poverty is that if you collect a welfare check you basically are making as much as you would working 40 hours a week at minimum wage. If the minimum wage were higher, than there would be a logical incentive to work. And personally, a guy making minimum wage is earning his check far more than the guy making $30+ an hour. (ie. ever work at a call center, fast food joint? The people above you are on power trips and treat everyone below them like absolute ****)

Anyways, anyone who says being poor is better than middle class needs to be slapped with a $100,000 stupidity fine so they can get a taste of what it is like to have serious financial woes.
 
Middle class people pay more taxes than poor people too! Man I hope Obama fixes this.
 
Nope... you didn't miss anything. most of the "poor" people around where I live drive nice cars, get free meds, and basically have a grand old time reproducing like rabbits to keep their monthy salary (i.e. welfare check) up... course I would not say this is how all people below the poverty line live, some are legitimately disadvantaged (I've seen it).. but these people are just malingering fat trailer park trash with an endless line of excuses for why they can't contribute anything to society.

I am glad you aren't considering going into politics 😀.

And comme on OP being Upper class isn't that great. Money can't buy happiness.
 
There's a difference between being legitimately at a disadvantage (i.e. grew up in the inner-city into a single-mother family) and being a malingerer (i.e. 5 generations of your family have been on welfare with no lasting meaningful employment going back 75 years in your family tree). I live in a rural area where the "poor" people are mostly of the latter group... I work in a local pharmacy, am very active in the community, and serve in various groups on campus who's main purpose is to help kids who are truly disadvantaged. Just because I lay it all out in a blunt and not so pleasing fashion doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.

True being poor is not worse than being middle class but being a malingering piece of garbage is far better than both... and yes, if you don't contribute anything to society by faking illness and REFUSING (see: making a choice) not to seek gainful employment, then you are a strain on society and need to be cut-off immediately. If you were raised in a poor household with significant barriers to overcome, then I respect you and am not minimizing your situation in anyway ... but don't think there aren't other people out there who fake being in your disposition just so they can lay back and have their bills paid on those of us who do decide to contribute. I see these people every single day and have ample proof of their immoral practices so don't tell me there aren't any.

Politics? No thanks... I'd have to bow down to the alter of liberalism/socialism (democratic party) or phony neo-conservativism (republican party - that ironically is much more - and in my mind, even worse than - liberalism/socialism than any respectable form of limited government conservativism).

Go out and vote for your Obama... I'm sure he'll be a fantastic president. I mean, it's so awesome how he can give a speech without sounding like a complete *****... that must mean he's qualified to hold the most powerful office in the entire world. Forget the fact that he's a phony ward politician from the most politically corrupt county in the entire world (Cook... I mean Crook County, Illinois). You are all complete fools for falling for this joke called Barack Obama... sure he may be better than John McCain and GWB (and honestly, who wouldn't be?) but at the end of the day he's another huckster with his own ties to special interests, big corporations, and anyone who can advance himself and his causes (not yours). You think he's looking out for you and yours? :laugh:

And like I said, sure maybe he will do a better job than McCain but to me I see almost no difference between the two. Both of them are completely phony to me... they are both plucked out of the same nest of villains within the Washington, D.C. power structure. These days there is absolutely no chance for an honest man or women to seek office... corruption is a requisite for national office. Without it the media will ignore you and the 2-party complex will ignore and marginalize you (or worse) for not advancing the status quo.

The ignorance of the American people is going to lead this country right into the ground. As sure as I'm sitting here with this bottle of Belgian-owned Budweiser, this country is going down a long, steep hill into the oblivion that all greedy and misguided nations in written history eventually found themselves in.

I encourage everyone to not vote for either of the two clowns running for office. Don't be another one of the sheep following the unbelievably corrupt 2-parties into the paddock.

Just ask yourself this question: "Does Obama/McCain really care about me and my family or are they both held up in the media, the government, and powerful special interests because they will both help to maintain the status quo?" Does being a war veteran half a century ago necessarily make you a patriot today -- regardless of how often you change your official stance on very serious issues just to please the prevailing power structure and procure support for your acquisition of power? Does being an articulate, good-looking guy necessarily make you a good leader?"

In both cases, these men rose to the top of the power structure because they took short-cuts and engaged in dishonest tactics that have no place in a society that is headed anywhere but in steep decline... that's the only way they got to be the remaining two candidates because that is the only strategy that is even remotely successful in our two-party system (the exact setup Jefferson warned us not to move towards over 200 years ago for these exact reasons)... In regards to corrupt political structures, a major influence of western philosophy and democracy once observed of corrupt governments that "honesty is, for the most part, less profitable than dishonesty" (Plato). Even a guy who lounged around in a toga all day thousands of years ago has a better analysis of what is going on in America than the average college-educated citizen.

And so the disadvantaged will vote for Obama because he promises a better future and the rich and privileged will vote for McCain because he promises to keep things they way they are. The irony of discussing the election in a thread such as this is that the middle class will continue to be squeezed into a smaller and smaller segment until the class distinction in America is even more extreme or no longer there --- there will simply be the haves and have-nots (the result of what McCain wants) or just the have-nots (the result of what people like Obama want)... the transformation may not take place in 4 or 8 years but I doubt any surveyor with decent knowledge of history (given he is not an ideologue) will argue that we aren't headed that way because both candidates represent segments of society that are decidedly anti-freedom and most certainly not concerned with the needs of the average farmer in Bettandorf, Iowa or the single mother in the housing projects of Los Angeles County. Sadly they both be fooled by these candidates and therein lies the problem.

Keep thinking one of the two represent what's best for a country slowly dying from a cancer of grossly immoral fiscal irresponsibility, overly-zealous foreign policy, an increasingly self-entitled populace who eat McDonalds three times a day, smoke five packs a week, and drink their liver into a cirrhotic mess and then turn around with their newly hired jackass from NY Law with a law suit for not fixing them... Keep ignoring the growing generation of kids who care more about American Idol and Paris Hilton than any of the matters I just brushed upon.

Ignorance is bliss until it catches up to you--then you look for a savior to fix it all ... too bad by then its too late and all the good people have no shot... the society has already devolved and all the people seen as saviors are nothing more than what the bible calls wolves in sheep-skin...



"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves among those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor&#8212;he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and wears their faces and their arguments. He appeals to the baseness that lies deep within the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation&#8212;he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city&#8212;he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared."
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, Roman Orator (42 B.C.)




No I don't want to debate on this. Go ahead and post your reply anyway if you'd like... I'll still read them but as you can see I get a little too "riled up" about politics. I'm tired.
 
Because your parents are too poor to help you with school and too rich to qualify for any type of aid.

Out of my three roommates, the first: Grandma pays for school, the second: family is so poor government subsidizes part of education, the third: smart enough for a full ride scholarship.

I pay for everything out of pocket.

Did I miss something?

I know what you mean. My parents have to support three kids through college at the same time (which has come to more like my sister and I support our selves and they pay for my brother). I have a little bit of aid but it keeps getting less and less. I did well in high school, but I was one point away on the ACTs to get a full ride scholarship and strangely pushed out of the top ten percent of kids in the senior class which I was told on my graduation day that some kids "mysteriously" brought their grades up in the last week and I'm now pushed back (I had a 4.6 gpa out of 4.0). What sucks about it now, I found out that the county schools were actually pulling kids out of the top ten percent just to put certain kids in, and it caused a huge lawsuit and junk. Anyway, I'm struggling now to pay and am wondering if I may even have to drop out of school cause I can't afford it anymore. I have a 3.9 gpa and volunteer a lot while a friend of mine has a full ride scholarship (she gets like $500 back a semester) because of her family's financial trouble, but works like 40 hours a week (she spends the money on vacations and junk, since she can't drive) and has very low grades. I guess it can be very irritating at times.
 
There's a difference between being legitimately at a disadvantage (i.e. grew up in the inner-city into a single-mother family) and being a malingerer (i.e. 5 generations of your family have been on welfare with no lasting meaningful employment going back 75 years in your family tree). I live in a rural area where the "poor" people are mostly of the latter group... I work in a local pharmacy, am very active in the community, and serve in various groups on campus who's main purpose is to help kids who are truly disadvantaged. Just because I lay it all out in a blunt and not so pleasing fashion doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.

True being poor is not worse than being middle class but being a malingering piece of garbage is far better than both... and yes, if you don't contribute anything to society by faking illness and REFUSING (see: making a choice) not to seek gainful employment, then you are a strain on society and need to be cut-off immediately. If you were raised in a poor household with significant barriers to overcome, then I respect you and am not minimizing your situation in anyway ... but don't think there aren't other people out there who fake being in your disposition just so they can lay back and have their bills paid on those of us who do decide to contribute. I see these people every single day and have ample proof of their immoral practices so don't tell me there aren't any.

Politics? No thanks... I'd have to bow down to the alter of liberalism/socialism (democratic party) or phony neo-conservativism (republican party - that ironically is much more - and in my mind, even worse than - liberalism/socialism than any respectable form of limited government conservativism).

Go out and vote for your Obama... I'm sure he'll be a fantastic president. I mean, it's so awesome how he can give a speech without sounding like a complete *****... that must mean he's qualified to hold the most powerful office in the entire world. Forget the fact that he's a phony ward politician from the most politically corrupt county in the entire world (Cook... I mean Crook County, Illinois). You are all complete fools for falling for this joke called Barack Obama... sure he may be better than John McCain and GWB (and honestly, who wouldn't be?) but at the end of the day he's another huckster with his own ties to special interests, big corporations, and anyone who can advance himself and his causes (not yours). You think he's looking out for you and yours? :laugh:

And like I said, sure maybe he will do a better job than McCain but to me I see almost no difference between the two. Both of them are completely phony to me... they are both plucked out of the same nest of villains within the Washington, D.C. power structure. These days there is absolutely no chance for an honest man or women to seek office... corruption is a requisite for national office. Without it the media will ignore you and the 2-party complex will ignore and marginalize you (or worse) for not advancing the status quo.

The ignorance of the American people is going to lead this country right into the ground. As sure as I'm sitting here with this bottle of Belgian-owned Budweiser, this country is going down a long, steep hill into the oblivion that all greedy and misguided nations in written history eventually found themselves in.

I encourage everyone to not vote for either of the two clowns running for office. Don't be another one of the sheep following the unbelievably corrupt 2-parties into the paddock.

Just ask yourself this question: "Does Obama/McCain really care about me and my family or are they both held up in the media, the government, and powerful special interests because they will both help to maintain the status quo?" Does being a war veteran half a century ago necessarily make you a patriot today -- regardless of how often you change your official stance on very serious issues just to please the prevailing power structure and procure support for your acquisition of power? Does being an articulate, good-looking guy necessarily make you a good leader?"

In both cases, these men rose to the top of the power structure because they took short-cuts and engaged in dishonest tactics that have no place in a society that is headed anywhere but in steep decline... that's the only way they got to be the remaining two candidates because that is the only strategy that is even remotely successful in our two-party system (the exact setup Jefferson warned us not to move towards over 200 years ago for these exact reasons)... In regards to corrupt political structures, a major influence of western philosophy and democracy once observed of corrupt governments that "honesty is, for the most part, less profitable than dishonesty" (Plato). Even a guy who lounged around in a toga all day thousands of years ago has a better analysis of what is going on in America than the average college-educated citizen.

And so the disadvantaged will vote for Obama because he promises a better future and the rich and privileged will vote for McCain because he promises to keep things they way they are. The irony of discussing the election in a thread such as this is that the middle class will continue to be squeezed into a smaller and smaller segment until the class distinction in America is even more extreme or no longer there --- there will simply be the haves and have-nots (the result of what McCain wants) or just the have-nots (the result of what people like Obama want)... the transformation may not take place in 4 or 8 years but I doubt any surveyor with decent knowledge of history (given he is not an ideologue) will argue that we aren't headed that way because both candidates represent segments of society that are decidedly anti-freedom and most certainly not concerned with the needs of the average farmer in Bettandorf, Iowa or the single mother in the housing projects of Los Angeles County. Sadly they both be fooled by these candidates and therein lies the problem.

Keep thinking one of the two represent what's best for a country slowly dying from a cancer of grossly immoral fiscal irresponsibility, overly-zealous foreign policy, an increasingly self-entitled populace who eat McDonalds three times a day, smoke five packs a week, and drink their liver into a cirrhotic mess and then turn around with their newly hired jackass from NY Law with a law suit for not fixing them... Keep ignoring the growing generation of kids who care more about American Idol and Paris Hilton than any of the matters I just brushed upon.

Ignorance is bliss until it catches up to you--then you look for a savior to fix it all ... too bad by then its too late and all the good people have no shot... the society has already devolved and all the people seen as saviors are nothing more than what the bible calls wolves in sheep-skin...



"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves among those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor—he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and wears their faces and their arguments. He appeals to the baseness that lies deep within the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation—he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city—he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared."
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, Roman Orator (42 B.C.)




No I don't want to debate on this. Go ahead and post your reply anyway if you'd like... I'll still read them but as you can see I get a little too "riled up" about politics. I'm tired.
blah blah blah...ill read was..I have a big floppy va.....
 
There's a difference between being legitimately at a disadvantage (i.e. grew up in the inner-city into a single-mother family) and being a malingerer (i.e. 5 generations of your family have been on welfare with no lasting meaningful employment going back 75 years in your family tree). I live in a rural area where the "poor" people are mostly of the latter group... I work in a local pharmacy, am very active in the community, and serve in various groups on campus who's main purpose is to help kids who are truly disadvantaged. Just because I lay it all out in a blunt and not so pleasing fashion doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.

True being poor is not worse than being middle class but being a malingering piece of garbage is far better than both... and yes, if you don't contribute anything to society by faking illness and REFUSING (see: making a choice) not to seek gainful employment, then you are a strain on society and need to be cut-off immediately. If you were raised in a poor household with significant barriers to overcome, then I respect you and am not minimizing your situation in anyway ... but don't think there aren't other people out there who fake being in your disposition just so they can lay back and have their bills paid on those of us who do decide to contribute. I see these people every single day and have ample proof of their immoral practices so don't tell me there aren't any.

Politics? No thanks... I'd have to bow down to the alter of liberalism/socialism (democratic party) or phony neo-conservativism (republican party - that ironically is much more - and in my mind, even worse than - liberalism/socialism than any respectable form of limited government conservativism).

Go out and vote for your Obama... I'm sure he'll be a fantastic president. I mean, it's so awesome how he can give a speech without sounding like a complete *****... that must mean he's qualified to hold the most powerful office in the entire world. Forget the fact that he's a phony ward politician from the most politically corrupt county in the entire world (Cook... I mean Crook County, Illinois). You are all complete fools for falling for this joke called Barack Obama... sure he may be better than John McCain and GWB (and honestly, who wouldn't be?) but at the end of the day he's another huckster with his own ties to special interests, big corporations, and anyone who can advance himself and his causes (not yours). You think he's looking out for you and yours? :laugh:

And like I said, sure maybe he will do a better job than McCain but to me I see almost no difference between the two. Both of them are completely phony to me... they are both plucked out of the same nest of villains within the Washington, D.C. power structure. These days there is absolutely no chance for an honest man or women to seek office... corruption is a requisite for national office. Without it the media will ignore you and the 2-party complex will ignore and marginalize you (or worse) for not advancing the status quo.

The ignorance of the American people is going to lead this country right into the ground. As sure as I'm sitting here with this bottle of Belgian-owned Budweiser, this country is going down a long, steep hill into the oblivion that all greedy and misguided nations in written history eventually found themselves in.

I encourage everyone to not vote for either of the two clowns running for office. Don't be another one of the sheep following the unbelievably corrupt 2-parties into the paddock.

Just ask yourself this question: "Does Obama/McCain really care about me and my family or are they both held up in the media, the government, and powerful special interests because they will both help to maintain the status quo?" Does being a war veteran half a century ago necessarily make you a patriot today -- regardless of how often you change your official stance on very serious issues just to please the prevailing power structure and procure support for your acquisition of power? Does being an articulate, good-looking guy necessarily make you a good leader?"

In both cases, these men rose to the top of the power structure because they took short-cuts and engaged in dishonest tactics that have no place in a society that is headed anywhere but in steep decline... that's the only way they got to be the remaining two candidates because that is the only strategy that is even remotely successful in our two-party system (the exact setup Jefferson warned us not to move towards over 200 years ago for these exact reasons)... In regards to corrupt political structures, a major influence of western philosophy and democracy once observed of corrupt governments that "honesty is, for the most part, less profitable than dishonesty" (Plato). Even a guy who lounged around in a toga all day thousands of years ago has a better analysis of what is going on in America than the average college-educated citizen.

And so the disadvantaged will vote for Obama because he promises a better future and the rich and privileged will vote for McCain because he promises to keep things they way they are. The irony of discussing the election in a thread such as this is that the middle class will continue to be squeezed into a smaller and smaller segment until the class distinction in America is even more extreme or no longer there --- there will simply be the haves and have-nots (the result of what McCain wants) or just the have-nots (the result of what people like Obama want)... the transformation may not take place in 4 or 8 years but I doubt any surveyor with decent knowledge of history (given he is not an ideologue) will argue that we aren't headed that way because both candidates represent segments of society that are decidedly anti-freedom and most certainly not concerned with the needs of the average farmer in Bettandorf, Iowa or the single mother in the housing projects of Los Angeles County. Sadly they both be fooled by these candidates and therein lies the problem.

Keep thinking one of the two represent what's best for a country slowly dying from a cancer of grossly immoral fiscal irresponsibility, overly-zealous foreign policy, an increasingly self-entitled populace who eat McDonalds three times a day, smoke five packs a week, and drink their liver into a cirrhotic mess and then turn around with their newly hired jackass from NY Law with a law suit for not fixing them... Keep ignoring the growing generation of kids who care more about American Idol and Paris Hilton than any of the matters I just brushed upon.

Ignorance is bliss until it catches up to you--then you look for a savior to fix it all ... too bad by then its too late and all the good people have no shot... the society has already devolved and all the people seen as saviors are nothing more than what the bible calls wolves in sheep-skin...



"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves among those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor—he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and wears their faces and their arguments. He appeals to the baseness that lies deep within the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation—he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city—he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared."
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, Roman Orator (42 B.C.)




No I don't want to debate on this. Go ahead and post your reply anyway if you'd like... I'll still read them but as you can see I get a little too "riled up" about politics. I'm tired.



*Killed by massive wall of text*


Seriously though, you could have probably done like 3 secondaries in the time it took you write this :laugh:
 
Cbrons, did you seriously type all of that out? I don't think I could sit there and type out something that long that I'm just posting up 🙁
 
I probably wouldn't have made it to college if I'd grown up in a poor family.
Middle class has enough problems as it is, I can only imagine being "poor" poor
 
Cbrons, did you seriously type all of that out? I don't think I could sit there and type out something that long that I'm just posting up 🙁

no.. i didn't type any of it. i sat there with a beer in my hand and dictated it with dragon naturally speaking 9.5.. took me about 30 seconds, cept I copied and pasted the cicero quote. This program rocks pretty hard, I highly recommend it for note taking too.
 
I agree man. Everyone I know gets cash income.
I think we need to stick to plan B and become Waiters :laugh:jk!
 
Middle class people pay more taxes than poor people too! Man I hope Obama fixes this.

I don't think the poor will or even should ever pay as much tax as the middle class, but Obama's plan does appear to trump McCain's "tax cuts" in payoff to middle class by threefold. This would be paid for by changing capital gains, which benefits mostly wealthy taxpayers > $100,000. I'm not an economist, but here is a NY Times article that gives some explanation...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/us/politics/13check.html

Middle class life seems to have sucked a lot more relative to the upper 1% since Reagan. Where's the trickle-down, GOP? 30 years and we're still waiting!!!
 
no.. i didn't type any of it. i sat there with a beer in my hand and dictated it with dragon naturally speaking 9.5.. took me about 30 seconds, cept I copied and pasted the cicero quote. This program rocks pretty hard, I highly recommend it for note taking too.

That sounds sweet I wanna try that 😱
 
I'm wondering the same thing you are: Did I miss something? What was I supposed to do differently? My parents are divorced and my dad hasn't given me a penny in over three years. My mom is way too poor to help me and though I do get some federal subsidized loans, it's not enough and I don't get any scholarships. I mean, I have a 4.0, doesn't that count for anything? But no, I guess not. It makes me nauseated to think about how much debt I'm in already and I'm only a junior in undergrad this year.

I have a friend who is in the same situation as you and she only claims her mother's income on her fafsa. She gets everything paid for by scholarships because of it!
 
Woe is me, im a caucasian middle class male, life sucks🙁
 
There are always going to be people who game the system, but the question for the policy makers is whether they want to err on the side of preventing people from taking advantage, or making sure that the intended beneficiaries get the help they need. In one of the areas where I grew up 40% of the people below the poverty line worked full-time, and I believe 70% of the households below the poverty line were single parent (mother), and thus had childcare difficulties to deal with.

Education is the most effective way to break the cycle of poverty in a community, so to me the benefits of access far outweigh the costs brought on by the people who take advantage. Not to mention the fact that poverty puts enormous strain on the healthcare system for a variety of reasons, a fact that presumably is of interest to future doctors.
 
So, let me get this straight.. You want to be poor, or do you wish you were miraculously considered a poor person while applying for aid?
 
I grew up below the poverty line, received grants because of it, and still graduated with over $18k in Staffords and Perkins loans. My family is still poor and I consider myself lucky to be only $18k in debt for UG to get out of that situation. You should be willing to pay for your education. Being poor is not a get out of jail free card in terms of financial commitment.
 
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