why do med schools reject good students!!!

[Farrah]

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I'm looking through md applicants and i've also personally been hearing all of these stories about straight a - students getting rejected!!! I mean why!!! Why !! why reject a 3.9 student with good extracurriculars research and clinical work- why!!!!!!!! why reject them presecondary? why reject them postsecondary!!!! how do these adcoms sleep at night?????? 😱 😱 😱 i mean i'm no straight-a student but i can't imagine how it must feel for those 'straight-a students' who have done everything possible and still get rejected !!!!!!!!!!! i mean seriously - you spend all your time and effort for what??? do you guys call the schools???? and what do they say?

i'm starting to freak out now.........i feel like this whole process is a game......
🙁

 

[Medikit]

You neglected to consider the personal statement.

 

[Farrah]

oh ....

 

[MoosePilot]

I haven't figured this one out either. If medical care is supposedly so hard to get, why not flood the market? It would hurt doctors salaries, but with increased competition most doctors would probably work in an underserved area rather than be unemployed.

I don't know.

 

[g3pro]

First of all, there is no way to confirm the validity of profiles given at that site. Second, great GPA/great MCAT students don't get rejected en masse. Check out the statistics in the MSAR. Don't 3.8+/33+ get accepted at a rate of 90%?

 

[seethrew]

I was at a meeting this year with and admissions committee member from University of Maryland Med and he had an interested reject story: in a nutshell - the applicant was perfect numbers like 40-something MCAT, got an interview, but was rejected because of a poor interview. Adcom thought if said applicant had such bad social skills, he would not be well suited for med school.

Another tidbit: I heard Hopkins watches interviewees mingle together to determine same.

 

[bigbaubdi]

i mean i'm no straight-a student but i can't imagine how it must feel for those 'straight-a students' who have done everything possible and still get rejected !!!!!!!!!!! i mean seriously - you spend all your time and effort for what??? do you guys call the schools???? and what do they say?

Relax!

There are a lot of great applicants out there competing for a small number of spots. This is precisely the reason why people apply to 10-15 schools - the odds of getting into one particular school are slim but the odds of getting into med school are decent if you apply to enough places.

 

[Luck]

Because sometimes good students deserve a kick in the ass.

 

[fullefect1]

They reject them because they can.

 

[davedavedave]

I'm looking through md applicants and i've also personally been hearing all of these stories about straight a - students getting rejected!!! I mean why!!! Why !! why reject a 3.9 student with good extracurriculars research and clinical work- why!!!!!!!! why reject them presecondary? why reject them postsecondary!!!! how do these adcoms sleep at night?????? 😱 😱 😱 i mean i'm no straight-a student but i can't imagine how it must feel for those 'straight-a students' who have done everything possible and still get rejected !!!!!!!!!!! i mean seriously - you spend all your time and effort for what??? do you guys call the schools???? and what do they say?

i'm starting to freak out now.........i feel like this whole process is a game......
🙁

worrying about the randomness of the process wont do anything but stress you out... just take it this application stuff a day at a time, it'll be ok 🙂

 

[adamj61]

An adcom member once told me, "No one thing will keep you out, except the mcat, but only if it is really bad; however, if you have a bad letter, or a letter that says you are dishonest, you won't even see an interview."

Could be something like that...also, I know if all of your letters are like...yeah, hes a "good" student...does this and that, but never mentions you are intellectually superior to your peers...then you may have problems. Your prof letter writes are the only people who can really examine your "intelligence" when given grades and scores. So, a couple of these luke warm letters would also do the trick.

 

[velo]

I'm looking through md applicants and i've also personally been hearing all of these stories about straight a - students getting rejected!!! I mean why!!! Why !! why reject a 3.9 student with good extracurriculars research and clinical work- why!!!!!!!! why reject them presecondary? why reject them postsecondary!!!! how do these adcoms sleep at night?????? 😱 😱 😱 i mean i'm no straight-a student but i can't imagine how it must feel for those 'straight-a students' who have done everything possible and still get rejected !!!!!!!!!!! i mean seriously - you spend all your time and effort for what??? do you guys call the schools???? and what do they say?

i'm starting to freak out now.........i feel like this whole process is a game......
🙁

Oh didn't anyone tell you? you can't get into med school with those stats. A 3.9 GPA is pretty low....you don't want to slip much lower than a 3.98, and even that's pushing it. Of course you need a 42T or so on the MCAT, LORs from at least one nobel prize winner...although 2 are recommended. It helps to volunteer in calcuta working with orphans....orphans with diseases. And yeah its good that those people did research, but did they publish? If they did publish was it only one paper? 3 is still the gold standard.

Anyway, it sounds like these applicants had pretty borderline stats, its their own fault that they turned the process into a crapshoot.

 

[electric]

velocypedalist, I'm sure there's a specail circle of hell reserved for you. 😎

 

[principessa]

Just because.

But seriously. First of all, a perfect GPA doesn't mean much if it comes with a lousy MCAT score. Second, just because you are rejected at one school doesn't mean you'll be rejected everywhere. Schools know this. Once you get to the point of applying to a certain level of school (top 20 or so), you're no longer competing for a spot in medical school, you're competing for a spot at a specific school. I think this gives adcoms at top schools a lot less guilt in rejecting people. They know that if you don't get in there you will get in somewhere, possibly another school of equal caliber. They don't have many spots to offer, and they have to pick and choose who they want in the class.

 

[wytosk]

Maybe their interviews went bad because deep down they are horrible communicators and thus would make a bad doctor.

 

[adamj61]

Just because.

But seriously. First of all, a perfect GPA doesn't mean much if it comes with a lousy MCAT score. Second, just because you are rejected at one school doesn't mean you'll be rejected everywhere. Schools know this. Once you get to the point of applying to a certain level of school (top 20 or so), you're no longer competing for a spot in medical school, you're competing for a spot at a specific school. I think this gives adcoms at top schools a lot less guilt in rejecting people. They know that if you don't get in there you will get in somewhere, possibly another school of equal caliber. They don't have many spots to offer, and they have to pick and choose who they want in the class.

Word on the street is that schools can't see the other schools you are applying to. Right?

 

[velo]

velocypedalist, I'm sure there's a specail circle of hell reserved for you. 😎

haha, no doubt. Its the circle of sarcasim and man its gotta be deep in lower hell...probably close to the ice pit and the big man himself.... 😀

 

[bkmonkey]

didn't you know that they just throw darts at peoples' apps? if yours get hit, great. if not, too bad. more than 50% of the people who apply this year won't get in. and these people will cover the whole range of mcat scores and gpas. there's just no rhyme or reason...

 

[JohnHolmes]

I'm looking through md applicants and i've also personally been hearing all of these stories about straight a - students getting rejected!!! I mean why!!! Why !! why reject a 3.9 student with good extracurriculars research and clinical work- why!!!!!!!! why reject them presecondary? why reject them postsecondary!!!! how do these adcoms sleep at night?????? 😱 😱 😱 i mean i'm no straight-a student but i can't imagine how it must feel for those 'straight-a students' who have done everything possible and still get rejected !!!!!!!!!!! i mean seriously - you spend all your time and effort for what??? do you guys call the schools???? and what do they say?

i'm starting to freak out now.........i feel like this whole process is a game......
🙁

You have heard correct. It is a hard process but a lot of the rejected 3.9s are rejects from Harvard, Hopkins ,etc. The vast majority of people in that group get in SOMEWHERE. So don't worry. You will do FINE.

 

[Bones2008]

Word on the street is that schools can't see the other schools you are applying to. Right?

Right. The only time they know anything about other schools is post-May 15th if you're on a waitlist or two. All the schools still involved with you (active acceptance/waitlist) at that point then know about each other.

 

[EMDream]

You know I would gather that some applicants have self satisfied preachy personal statements that set off warning bells in adcoms heads. I think they can sniff out insincerity a mile away and it can be reflected in a bs personal statement that is trying to cater to what they wnat to hear and not actually a "personal" statement at all. AFter that point, its all about the interview. Not that everynoe goes in ona fair ground, obviously your gpa, mcat and experiences are still valid, but if you're a stellar looking applicant on paper and you come into the interview and cant organize your thoughts, stumble over your words too much or cme across as arrogant or fake, it won't matter how greaty our gpa is.

I am a PA student and I gather that medical school interviews follow somewhat the same format except ours were 3 applicants and a 3 member panel. I watched the girl next to me choke, i felt awful for her, though she had way more experience than me and probably had the grades, i doubt i'll be seeing her in my classes any time soon.

 

[nicko18]

I'm looking through md applicants and i've also personally been hearing all of these stories about straight a - students getting rejected!!! I mean why!!! Why !! why reject a 3.9 student with good extracurriculars research and clinical work- why!!!!!!!! why reject them presecondary? why reject them postsecondary!!!! how do these adcoms sleep at night?????? 😱 😱 😱 i mean i'm no straight-a student but i can't imagine how it must feel for those 'straight-a students' who have done everything possible and still get rejected !!!!!!!!!!! i mean seriously - you spend all your time and effort for what??? do you guys call the schools???? and what do they say?

i'm starting to freak out now.........i feel like this whole process is a game......
🙁

Its one thing to do well on a written exam, its a whole different thing altogether to be able to communicate and think quickly and abstractly under a pressure situation like an interview.

 

[i61164]

The OP makes a good point here:

why reject them presecondary?(

We all know that an applicant with exceptional numbers, ec's, and ps will still get rejected presecondary from some schools. This is before the interview and even before the school has seen LOR's, so they are irrelevant at this point. This applicant will eventually get accepted to Harvard, but will always wonder why they were rejected from Penn PRESECONDARY. What the hell?

 

[Tippy007]

It's probably because those really intelligent people have something deficient in their personalities. Maybe they are "know it alls" or compassionless or just plain evil. These are the people who get rejected from medicine and instead go into business, become CEO's, make millions, and then do five years in a minimum security prison for bilking the company or lying to shareholders. That or they become dentists. 😀

 

[elephunt]

I think this is why we all obsess so much about making our application package as perfect as possible. I mean, if you check out the mdapplicants site, there are people who get rejected to "lower-tier" schools but accepted to "upper-tier" schools all the time. Why? Who knows. Could be a million reasons. So we all worry and worry and worry about our applications, when the whole process really is pretty random and somewhat out of our control. All we can do is do the best we can, present ourselves in the best way possible, and hope we get lucky.

Actually, though, maybe the med schools are in collusion with each other to make this process appear nearly random, in order to encourage us to apply to more schools, thus boosting the amount of moolah each school gets from secondaries. Shady bastards! 😛

 

[W222]

The whole process is very random, someone may get rejected even after being told in their interview that they would be accepted, as was the case with me. I was also told I would probably get accepted by one school in particular because of close ties to the school, NOPE. Just strange I guess. As for those really strong applicants who get rejected by lower teir schools, the schools most likely know they are a safety school and dont want to waste an acceptance. Ohh, one final note: Life sucks if you take it too seriously.

 

[BaLeavaMD]

OP..It's because people with 4.0s and 45's on the MCAT often go to the interview and their ego can hardly fit them through the door!!! It is important to be humble at the interview. No doctor who has been working for 30 years wants to have some egotistical med student who won't listen...Adcoms see right through that!!

 

[W222]

RHLMDMPH2b, YOU are absolutely correct. If you are a prick they will see you coming a mile away. FOR instance, I met a girl one evening at a local bar and we had a few mutual friends, one of whom introduced us knowing we were both interested in med school. She said, "oh, you are thinking of med school, I just got my MCAT back and I did so well, nothing is going to keep me out. I am thinking about Hopkins or Wash U, UPitt is my safety. " My jaw just dropped, especially after I heard her list her mediocre ECs to me and how she did a little volunteer work. Then she asked me about my MCAT score and told me that I probably wouldnt get in. She came from BC and apparently thought it was considered Harvard-caliber education. Well, I guess she was wrong cause she only got into her state school, a safety school. On the several occasions we hung out she acted like her sh@t didn't stink, I was horrified that this girl was going to be a doctor. Still kinda am.

 

[izzyfine]

I'm looking through md applicants and i've also personally been hearing all of these stories about straight a - students getting rejected!!! I mean why!!! Why !! why reject a 3.9 student with good extracurriculars research and clinical work- why!!!!!!!! why reject them presecondary? why reject them postsecondary!!!! how do these adcoms sleep at night?????? 😱 😱 😱 i mean i'm no straight-a student but i can't imagine how it must feel for those 'straight-a students' who have done everything possible and still get rejected !!!!!!!!!!! i mean seriously - you spend all your time and effort for what??? do you guys call the schools???? and what do they say?

i'm starting to freak out now.........i feel like this whole process is a game......
🙁

Maybe some of those straight A students are real @ssholes. A few of those people with awesome numbers have horrible social skills and I have a hard time imagining them doing well in an interview. In a way it is comforting though to know that the game is more than just numbers...if some brains get rejected and some clowns get accepted...well, then you might just have a shot.

Tip - Don't waist time trying to psychoanalyze the adcoms, just study hard and try not to get a criminal record before starting medical school.

 

[Fermata]

Since when did high gpa = no social skills?

It's a game with rules, folks.

How can you take shots at those who try to play by them?

 

[velo]

Since when did high gpa = no social skills?

It's a game with rules, folks.

How can you take shots at those who try to play by them?

Oh come on Fermata, let them rationalize...

don't you read SDN? high gpa/MCAT= egotistic, unamicable, robot-gunner. 9 times out of 10

if you have lower stats it means you're a more well-rounded person and will probably be a better doctor...also having good LORs, ECs, and volunteering completly makes up for low stats (which is GREAT! 'cause anyone can get those things!)

If you don't let them believe this they'll all turn into nervous wrecks.

Now to everyone: no matter how good of an applicant you are, you won't get into every school you apply to. School's like to think of themselves as unique institutions looking for a very specific type of student, you can't possibly fit the bill for every adcom. Just apply to a wide range of schools, and if you're a reasonably competitive candidate you'll get in SOMEWHERE...don't stress it will be ok 🙂

Best of luck to all

 

[superdevil]

velocypedalist, you are spot-on here:

don't you read SDN? high gpa/MCAT= egotistic, unamicable, robot-gunner. 9 times out of 10

....and here...

if you have lower stats it means you're a more well-rounded person and will probably be a better doctor...also having good LORs, ECs, and volunteering completly makes up for low stats (which is GREAT! 'cause anyone can get those things!)

....and here...

If you don't let them believe this they'll all turn into nervous wrecks.

maybe this makes me an insensitive, no-social-skills, ego-driven, gunner prick, but i've never understood this stereotype (especially because it comes from pre-meds; a population which would otherwise pretend to be morally "above" stereotyping other things, i.e. race). i guess people just need to say whatever makes them feel better, and if there is one semi-genuine anecdote to back up that position ("i know of someone with a 44T who had to go to podiatry school!" 🙄 ), then i suppose that's good enough.

sheesh.

 

[Fermata]

That aside, people need to realize that it is a PRIVILEGE and not a right to be a doctor.

 

[BaLeavaMD]

That aside, people need to realize that it is a PRIVILEGE and not a right to be a doctor.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO TRUE!!!!!!

 

[tofurious]

Don't worry too much about what pre-meds say. The majority of pre-meds won't make it to med school, so the majority of pre-med opinions are at least misinformed if not totally wrong.

 

[!dr_nick!]

If i were an adcom id reject people with good scores just to keep the FEAR in everyone applying.

 

[Zweihander]

I haven't figured this one out either. If medical care is supposedly so hard to get, why not flood the market? It would hurt doctors salaries, but with increased competition most doctors would probably work in an underserved area rather than be unemployed.

I don't know.

The problem is not that there aren't enough doctors, it's that there are too many specialists and too little access to health care for the underserved and uninsured. We need to raise doctors salaries, at least for those who are in general care, not lower them.