or if not ever, then why do they have to wait a couple of years?
Why do some foreign medical graduates never get residency
- Thread starter uclakid
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2004
- Messages
- 8,026
- Reaction score
- 4,176
Poor grades, multiple failures on the USMLE, poor recommendations....
FMGs are at a disadvantage. Several programs such as Columbia (at least from what several attendings from that program told me) will not even consider a D.O. or FMG, no matter how good the scores are.
Aside from these programs, there are plenty willing to take in FMGs (or D.O.s) This is well enough to leave a large and comfortable area for FMGs to get into residency provided their scores and LORs are at least decent, even below average.
I have nothing against FMGs or D.O.s. As I've mentioned a few times, I am an FMG. In fact in my own residency program, the worst 2 residents (that were kicked out) while I was there were AMGs, but nonetheless, it is what it is.
If one's scores are below average, and there are at least a few failures on the USMLE, expect to have problems getting in.
Some other aspects: U.S. citizenship and or permanent resident status. I've heard some program directors say they're not as inclined to take in an FMG unless their status in this country is stable and for obvious reasons. They don't want a resident who may have to unexpectedly leave the country.
Another issue: the language barrier. Several non-native English speakers have problems with their ability to communciate with patients.
For better or worse, this culmination has created a type of upper and lower class based on where you went to school.
FMGs are at a disadvantage. Several programs such as Columbia (at least from what several attendings from that program told me) will not even consider a D.O. or FMG, no matter how good the scores are.
Aside from these programs, there are plenty willing to take in FMGs (or D.O.s) This is well enough to leave a large and comfortable area for FMGs to get into residency provided their scores and LORs are at least decent, even below average.
I have nothing against FMGs or D.O.s. As I've mentioned a few times, I am an FMG. In fact in my own residency program, the worst 2 residents (that were kicked out) while I was there were AMGs, but nonetheless, it is what it is.
If one's scores are below average, and there are at least a few failures on the USMLE, expect to have problems getting in.
Some other aspects: U.S. citizenship and or permanent resident status. I've heard some program directors say they're not as inclined to take in an FMG unless their status in this country is stable and for obvious reasons. They don't want a resident who may have to unexpectedly leave the country.
Another issue: the language barrier. Several non-native English speakers have problems with their ability to communciate with patients.
For better or worse, this culmination has created a type of upper and lower class based on where you went to school.
Last edited:
I am under the impression that failing the STEP 1 even once is a guarantee to never land a residency.
I have no idea how people take it more than once and still make it. What do they do? Bribe the residency program director?
I have no idea how people take it more than once and still make it. What do they do? Bribe the residency program director?
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2004
- Messages
- 8,026
- Reaction score
- 4,176
I've seen plenty of people who failed USMLE once and still get in.
It does hurt your odds of getting in, but you can still get in if that's the only blemish or one of a few.
It does hurt your odds of getting in, but you can still get in if that's the only blemish or one of a few.
this is untrue. i went to a caribbean school, (a well-known one, but still in the carib) where failures on step 1 are common. they all are in residency now, whether trying once or twice in the match. the thing was caribbean schools as opposed to other "kinds" of FMGs, is that we have 2 years in US clinicals and most all of us are US citizens. These 2 things are big in a residency program directors eyes. Many FMGS from other countries do not have US clinical experience. Even if they have decent or good USMLE scores, they will not get far without USCE.
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2007
- Messages
- 2,387
- Reaction score
- 129
Because the Step 1 score is only one of many relevant pieces of data for matching to any residency, including a psychiatry residency.
What are the other pieces?
Hi uclakid- in addition to board scores/ # of attempts and medical schools (US MD vs DO vs. USIMGs vs FMG)-other important intangibles include empathy, language skills, professionalism, med school record, intelligence, good interpersonal skills. Maybe research at the top tier programs.
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2004
- Messages
- 8,026
- Reaction score
- 4,176
Very true and something I forgot to mention.
I've seen several programs very open to putting St. George's or Ross students on almost equal footing with US medical graduates. They were not willing to do this for other FMGs.
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2008
- Messages
- 220
- Reaction score
- 2
true...these two factors, separately or combined, are very important between the unofficial two classes of FMG (USIMG and IMG)....
IMG may have 260+ scores, USCE, research experience etc., but he/she will still always lack US citizenship...and most prestigious programs just won't consider him/her....don't know how wrong or right it is ot whats the logical argument which may justify it....but thats the truth.
also, USCE has become so much important, and difficult to get as well, for IMG's.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2007
- Messages
- 58
- Reaction score
- 2
Because there is no guarantee that an FMG's training is as good as an AMG (M.D. or D.O.).
