Why do you volunteer and why do med schools care?

[swhite92]

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During my undergrad, I ended up in the ER with food poisoning - I ended up staying, by signing up to volunteer there. I love the atmosphere, the pace, the culture, the patient-doctor (and nurse) interaction, and pretty much just everything about it. That really turned me towards looking at med school, because I began to realize that (after shadowing some other types of docs) emergency medicine is really what I want to do with my life.

So, I know volunteering looks great on an app, but how great is it really? I think some med schools weight this too much, as many pre-meds only volunteer because it looks good on paper.... As a kind of philosophical question, I want to look at the goals of students who volunteer.

If you want to be a doctor and go to med school, I think you need at least some interest in the common good; otherwise, you will end up being a burned out drone after ten years in practice, only staying with it for the money. When med schools look at an applicant and see a s***load of hours volunteering, it at least proves that you can handle that burden and stick with something. But does it really show that you like doing it?

If you wish to respond, here are the things I want to know:
a) Did you volunteer as an undergrad (or are you currently)?
b) If so, how many hours?
c) Was it medical or non-medical experience (or a mix)?
d) And finally, why did you volunteer? Did you plan on going to med school and know that it would look good on your app or to get exposure to a field? Or was it because you truly enjoy doing it?

 

[circulus vitios]

When med schools look at an applicant and see a s***load of hours volunteering, it at least proves that you can handle that burden and stick with something.

Yeah, the unbearable burden of being accountable for literally nothing.

But does it really show that you like doing it?

If you wish to respond, here are the things I want to know:
a) Did you volunteer as an undergrad (or are you currently)?
b) If so, how many hours?
c) Was it medical or non-medical experience (or a mix)?
d) And finally, why did you volunteer? Did you plan on going to med school and know that it would look good on your app or to get exposure to a field? Or was it because you truly enjoy doing it?

A. Yes
B. "50 hours"
C. Medical
D. Because medical schools like to see it. I hated every second of it.

 

[amad01]

If you wish to respond, here are the things I want to know:
a) Did you volunteer as an undergrad (or are you currently)?
b) If so, how many hours?
c) Was it medical or non-medical experience (or a mix)?
d) And finally, why did you volunteer? Did you plan on going to med school and know that it would look good on your app or to get exposure to a field? Or was it because you truly enjoy doing it?

a) yes
b) lots
c) both
d) I had quite a bit of volunteer experience before medicine was even anything I'd ever thought about. I enjoyed those much more than what I've been doing lately. Everything I'm doing now feels like a chore with little meaning and it's only to look "good" on my app so I don't end up being a high school chemistry teacher... I think medical volunteering feels so pointless... I'm just making the janitor/tech's job easier so they get paid to do less. I'm sure most people here will tell me I'm doing it wrong. 😛

 

[swhite92]

Yeah, the unbearable burden of being accountable for literally nothing.

That's another set of problems with volunteering I forgot to mention. One, that often volunteering is completely pointless and you end up doing practically nothing useful. Second, that it is highly unlikely that they will even check that you were actually there. Could you imagine if AdComs contacted every single EC ref on every application they get? They would never have time to actually read the app!

A. Yes
B. "50 hours"
C. Medical
D. Because medical schools like to see it. I hated every second of it.

Sorry to hear that, what sucked about it?

 

[swhite92]

a) yes
b) lots
c) both
d) I had quite a bit of volunteer experience before medicine was even anything I'd ever thought about. I enjoyed those much more than what I've been doing lately. Everything I'm doing now feels like a chore with little meaning and it's only to look "good" on my app so I don't end up being a high school chemistry teacher... I think medical volunteering feels so pointless... I'm just making the janitor/tech's job easier so they get paid to do less. I'm sure most people here will tell me I'm doing it wrong. 😛

That sucks - I started to get that feeling until I got to know the nurses. A couple of them let me shadow them while I'm there, and I also get to just hang out with patients a lot. The ER I volunteer in is slower than most, so I generally have more time to interact with both patients and nurses & docs.

 

[MDwannabe09]

1) Yes
2) 80 so far
3) medical
4) I starting volunteering to get a more realistic view of medical care in a hospital setting. It gave me a nice reality check in that hospitals aren't what you see on tv and movies. Just volunteering for 80hrs so far has let me understand much more of what being a doctor actually involves as well as the roles of other health care workers. Before volunteering, I didn't get why clinical experience was so important in applying to med schools; however now I definitely see why and I'm glad I've done it. I like the ER and will continue volunteering there over the summer as well as participating in a hospital summer internship.

 

[0919mmk]

a) Did you volunteer as an undergrad (or are you currently)?
You won't find a med student who didn't volunteer - it is for all intents and purposes a requirement for acceptance

b) If so, how many hours?
I think most people are over 100 hours - I was probably around 150

c) Was it medical or non-medical experience (or a mix)?
They say a mix is pretty important to have. If you were going to only have one type, have clinical. I had a mix, and I would guess basically all of my classmates do as well.

d) And finally, why did you volunteer? Did you plan on going to med school and know that it would look good on your app or to get exposure to a field? Or was it because you truly enjoy doing it?
Again, I did it because it was a requirement for med school, and many (not all) med students will tell you the same thing. Is it kind of sad and jaded? Yeah. Does that change the facts of the endeavor? Nope. I have spoken to plenty of classmates who really are in to volunteering, and I believe them, but EVERYBODY has some on their CV.

 

[DrEnderW]

A. Yes (during undergrad and some during gap/research year)
B. Prob around 200 I'd guess
C. Mix. but <10% medical
D. Loved the non-medical part which was tutoring high risk HS students/ generic volunteering through college sports team - great way to genuinely give back. Absolutely abhorred the medical volunteering and stopped immediately after interviews started coming in. Any medical volunteering I did didn't actually help anyone and a payed staff member would have done it in my absence.

 

[LizzyM]

Some people are natural "givers" and others are not. Some say "Let me be of service" and others say "what am I getting out of this?"

Some people grumble about some small task, like stocking every exam room with bandaids, and say that it means that the low level staff members jobs are easier. What those volunteers may not realize is that the low level staff members are stretched very thin and that when a care provider can reach in and grab a bandaid rather than running around looking for one, the patient's care is smoother.

Some physicians on the adcom think that "givers" and those who want to be of service make better medical students. Other adcom members may not put as much emphasis on it.

Do recognize that some medical schools and some residency programs are going to require trainees to do a fair amount of work that seems beneath them in light of their education and training. If you can do this work with a smile, things will go more smoothly. If not, you may be a angry, stressed trainee who is unhappy with his lot in life.

 

[swhite92]

a) Did you volunteer as an undergrad (or are you currently)?
You won't find a med student who didn't volunteer - it is for all intents and purposes a requirement for acceptance

b) If so, how many hours?
I think most people are over 100 hours - I was probably around 150

c) Was it medical or non-medical experience (or a mix)?
They say a mix is pretty important to have. If you were going to only have one type, have clinical. I had a mix, and I would guess basically all of my classmates do as well.

d) And finally, why did you volunteer? Did you plan on going to med school and know that it would look good on your app or to get exposure to a field? Or was it because you truly enjoy doing it?
Again, I did it because it was a requirement for med school, and many (not all) med students will tell you the same thing. Is it kind of sad and jaded? Yeah. Does that change the facts of the endeavor? Nope. I have spoken to plenty of classmates who really are in to volunteering, and I believe them, but EVERYBODY has some on their CV.

That's about what I tell everyone who asks me - even if you don't like it, DO IT. It is a rare case indeed for someone to get into med school without volunteering, unless there is an extreme attenuating circumstance. I've picked up about 100 clinical and more non-clinical than I can count, but I am lucky enough to actually enjoy it. Not everyone is that way though, but sometimes you just need to suck it up and do something you don't want to do.

 

[Planes2Doc]

So, I know volunteering looks great on an app, but how great is it really? I think some med schools weight this too much, as many pre-meds only volunteer because it looks good on paper.... As a kind of philosophical question, I want to look at the goals of students who volunteer.

Actually that's not entirely correct. Volunteering won't look great (unless you do something worth thousands of hours of way out there), having it just keeps you from looking bad. Imagine lacking something that 90% of applicants have. There's a reason why it's called an unwritten requirement.

If you want to be a doctor and go to med school, I think you need at least some interest in the common good; otherwise, you will end up being a burned out drone after ten years in practice, only staying with it for the money. When med schools look at an applicant and see a s***load of hours volunteering, it at least proves that you can handle that burden and stick with something. But does it really show that you like doing it?

There's a big difference between having an interest in the common good, and providing free labor. When I volunteered, the hospital took advantage of me and had me do scut work. I'm guessing a majority of the experiences are quite similar. If you come to work every day and enjoy what you do, then that's great. If you come to work every day and do the best you can whether you like it or not, then it's great. Patients aren't going to care why you're there to treat them. Patients care about getting the services they need so they can get better or stay healthy. I don't understand why there is such a necessity as a pre-med to provide so much free labor. It's as if giving up the best years of your life to study medicine isn't enough, and there's such a huge need to put a huge pony show on top of it.

If you wish to respond, here are the things I want to know:
a) Did you volunteer as an undergrad (or are you currently)?
b) If so, how many hours?
c) Was it medical or non-medical experience (or a mix)?
d) And finally, why did you volunteer? Did you plan on going to med school and know that it would look good on your app or to get exposure to a field? Or was it because you truly enjoy doing it?

a) I did not volunteer as an undergrad, I volunteered as a post-bacc.
b) I ended up between 300-400 hours based on my ED experience plus some non-clinical sporadic work that I genuinely enjoyed. Since the latter was sporadic, it wouldn't have been enough, and I likely would have been seen as a selfish bastard.
c) It was a mix, with the majority being ED volunteering.
d) I volunteered because I wanted to go to medical school. I don't think that people who aren't pre-meds are lining up in droves at the hospital volunteer offices so they can do the work of the orderly for free. I added the non-clinical work to make my app look better. I ended up enjoying it, and I would actually do it under my own free will if I had the time.

And just to clarify, there's a pretty big difference between the SDN extra curricular mentality, and what takes place in the real world. You don't have to be the next Mother Teresa to get into medical school, unlike what you see on this website.

 

[mimelim]

Some people are natural "givers" and others are not. Some say "Let me be of service" and others say "what am I getting out of this?"

Some people grumble about some small task, like stocking every exam room with bandaids, and say that it means that the low level staff members jobs are easier. What those volunteers may not realize is that the low level staff members are stretched very thin and that when a care provider can reach in and grab a bandaid rather than running around looking for one, the patient's care is smoother.

Some physicians on the adcom think that "givers" and those who want to be of service make better medical students. Other adcom members may not put as much emphasis on it.

Do recognize that some medical schools and some residency programs are going to require trainees to do a fair amount of work that seems beneath them in light of their education and training. If you can do this work with a smile, things will go more smoothly. If not, you may be a angry, stressed trainee who is unhappy with his lot in life.

I won't be obnoxious and supersize this post, but this really should answer any questions people have on this matter. I have yet to hear from an adcom that disagrees with this overview (sample size, n= 5).

 

[swhite92]

Actually that's not entirely correct. Volunteering won't look great (unless you do something worth thousands of hours of way out there), having it just keeps you from looking bad. Imagine lacking something that 90% of applicants have. There's a reason why it's called an unwritten requirement.

True, I ended up making that point in a subsequent post. If you don't have volunteer experience and manage to get an interview, you damn well better be ready for the question "Why not?"

There's a big difference between having an interest in the common good, and providing free labor. When I volunteered, the hospital took advantage of me and had me do scut work. I'm guessing a majority of the experiences are quite similar. If you come to work every day and enjoy what you do, then that's great. If you come to work every day and do the best you can whether you like it or not, then it's great. Patients aren't going to care why you're there to treat them. Patients care about getting the services they need so they can get better or stay healthy. I don't understand why there is such a necessity as a pre-med to provide so much free labor. It's as if giving up the best years of your life to study medicine isn't enough, and there's such a huge need to put a huge pony show on top of it.

I can completely understand that sentiment, but don't you think it is good to understand how much s*** you will have to put up with before you apply? (Taking some creative license to LizzyM's post above) If you are going into med school without the complete realization that you are starting out at the BOTTOM and will have everyone at the top crapping on you all day, you will probably just end up a spiteful, angry person even more so than most.

a) I did not volunteer as an undergrad, I volunteered as a post-bacc.
b) I ended up between 300-400 hours based on my ED experience plus some non-clinical sporadic work that I genuinely enjoyed. Since the latter was sporadic, it wouldn't have been enough, and I likely would have been seen as a selfish bastard.
c) It was a mix, with the majority being ED volunteering.
d) I volunteered because I wanted to go to medical school. I don't think that people who aren't pre-meds are lining up in droves at the hospital volunteer offices so they can do the work of the orderly for free. I added the non-clinical work to make my app look better. I ended up enjoying it, and I would actually do it under my own free will if I had the time.

And just to clarify, there's a pretty big difference between the SDN extra curricular mentality, and what takes place in the real world. You don't have to be the next Mother Teresa to get into medical school, unlike what you see on this website.

Exactly, but you do need to know what you're getting into. Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you - I totally wish I had more free time to fill in that "Hobbies" section, but that's just the reality of being a premed. Med schools want people who have proven they are willing to give up their life for something they want. Not everyone can fill those shoes, but if you can it doesn't really matter how bitter you are about it.

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

Hospitals like volunteers because they save the hospital money. Rather than reducing executive and physician pay by 0.5% and hiring more help in under-staffed departments, hospitals would rather use retirees and premeds to do the work for free.

Looking at the physician population, it's fairly obvious that the vast majority of medical school graduates do not continue doing volunteer or pro bono work. Medicaid and Medicare patients are increasingly having trouble finding specialist care due to abysmal reimbursement rates. And those specialists are still getting paid! The free clinics I have been involved with have trouble getting enough attending physicians to keep the place open.

I don't fault the physicians. It makes zero economic sense for someone who's worth several hundred bucks an hour to go move boxes around at a soup kitchen. But I think it would be hypocritical for a committee composed primarily of highly skilled professionals who do little to zero volunteer work to exclude people from the profession for not having token volunteer experience on their resume.

 

[ericksonj15]

.

 

[pandahunter]

a) Yes
b) 150ish
c) Medical
d) Did it because med schools wanted it. For no other purpose. It always seemed to me that volunteering at a hospital doing menial inconsequential labor was just part of the game and no other volunteer in my program actually enjoyed it. I'm not against volunteering in general. In fact, I liked my other nonmedical volunteering experiences. But there is really no reward in restocking bandaids and transporting urine samples. If you spend most of your day folding blankets, you don't go home thinking "wow, I really gave back to the community today." But for some stupid reason, adcoms think volunteering in a medical setting is going to prove something about your character. Well, I suppose it does - it proves you're willing to jump through hoops and get on your knees to get into med school. I understand that at some point in medical training you have to do these things, but should it be an important criteria for med school admission? Does it really suggest you're going to be a good doctor or does it merely show you can play the game? In my experience and in getting to know most of my classmates in medical school, most students will fall into the latter category. It's as if admissions committees believe students who don't restock medical supplies end up being unruly residents/medical students, and those who do are more giving and altruistic.

 

[pdxhopeful]

I volunteered because it was a requirement, and because I was some help, and I actually got a lot out of it. I feel like I'm a lot more comfortable talking to patients than I would be otherwise, I'm a lot more confident I want that contact despite not being the most social person, I've seen something of how a floor is run when the docs aren't there, gotten some small experience keeping track of multiple patients... Like a lot of things, if you make it about racking up hours and just adhere to the position description (or worse, have to be prompted to do things) it's going to be miserable. Engage with it, put ego aside to help the team run as smoothly as possible and so you can learn from the ground up, and you might be surprised where it'll take you.

 

[birdie77]

a) yes, currently
b) so far, about 30
c) medical
d) i am volunteering at the hospital because people say it is important for medical school. i volunteer in the child life department so i have fun playing with the kids.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Hospitals like volunteers because they save the hospital money. Rather than reducing executive and physician pay by 0.5% and hiring more help in under-staffed departments, hospitals would rather use retirees and premeds to do the work for free.

Looking at the physician population, it's fairly obvious that the vast majority of medical school graduates do not continue doing volunteer or pro bono work. Medicaid and Medicare patients are increasingly having trouble finding specialist care due to abysmal reimbursement rates. And those specialists are still getting paid! The free clinics I have been involved with have trouble getting enough attending physicians to keep the place open.

I don't fault the physicians. It makes zero economic sense for someone who's worth several hundred bucks an hour to go move boxes around at a soup kitchen. But I think it would be hypocritical for a committee composed primarily of highly skilled professionals who do little to zero volunteer work to exclude people from the profession for not having token volunteer experience on their resume.

Very well said!!! 👍 I don't understand why the elderly throw themselves at hospital volunteering. Is any of this free labor actually directly benefiting patients? Let's see, if the hospital has an ED department, they are required by law to provide care to people without insurance. This can count as the charity care that's required to maintain non-profit status. I don't see them throwing happy wonderful things at patients with the money saved, other than the huge hospital bills the patients end up getting after they are discharged.

Therefore, I definitely agree with you that saving money on labor helps to line the pockets of the executives on the board of directors. Also that's a fantastic point that you bring up about ADCOMs being hypocrites, especially if they aren't providing such extensive service to the communities themselves.

Therefore I don't see how an elderly person working as a secretary for a hospital is any different than volunteering as a secretary at a bank or volunteering as a cashier at McDonald's. Any position can be stretched to make it seem like you're helping people out.

If you volunteer at a free clinic or hospital that provides free services, then it's different. I bet working at a for-profit hospital might be better since you might end up doing patient contact work only which actually benefits the patients. Also, I realize LizzyM says that the low-level workers are stretched thin, but at the ED I volunteered at (quiet suburban setting), they usually chatted amongst themselves, were surfing Facebook on the computers, or texting on their phones while forcing me to clean rooms. It's all different depending on the location, but I doubt a majority of the non-profit hospitals are as "charitable" as they make themselves out to be.

 

[Flashfan]

1) Yes
2) 50+
3) Mostly non-medical, but will get to volunteer at free clinic next year
4) I ahve always volunteered since grade school, so I can't imagine NOT making time for it. I am also in a fraternity so I work with my brothers to do something nice for our community. We aren't a bunch of rich kids, but we live better than most in our town, so it just makes sense to make the place better. I tutor kids in math, help refurbish houses after storms, organize fundraisers for the new charity clinic and do Relay for Life, etc. I also think it shows that I can manage my time. I am not a martyr, but it feels good knowing that my actions have a positive impact on someone else. I am looking forward to working in the clinic next year, since it will be medical, and the community really needs this clinic. I really don't care it if is stocking shelves.

 

[mimelim]

a) Maybe?
b) N/A
c) N/A
d) I may have put something down that seemed to fit as 'volunteering', tutoring comes to mind, but if I did, it was relatively small. I certainly didn't do it because of an application. I did it because thats what I wanted to do with my time and would have done regardless of what I was applying to. I applied to a top heavy list and interviewed virtually everywhere that I wanted. Maybe it is a manifestation of that. Nobody really seemed to care on the interview trail either. In general we had so much else to talk about or focus on that I don't see how it could have mattered.

 

[swhite92]

I've done a mix of clinical and non-clinical volunteering. When I started volunteering in an ER I really enjoyed it. I got to bring patients back to their rooms and interact with them quite regularly. Eventually, a few other volunteers must have made egregious errors and the volunteer policies in my hospital's ER changed dramatically. At this point, we're pretty much prohibited from doing so much as looking at or speaking to the patients, we can't even transport them in wheelchairs anymore. I don't mind doing the dirty work like cleaning rooms, but it has been frustrating to have responsiblities continually taken away rather than increased the longer I've volunteered.

>>Thatsucksbro

I haven't had that problem yet, but I've seen it at jobs I've worked in the past. One person makes a mistake and everyone else gets punished in the Litigious States of America. Fortunately at the ER I work in we get quite a bit of freedom and are actually encouraged to interact with the patients.

As far as non-clinical goes, I played hockey all the way through college, and I've spent the past few winters volunteering as a youth hockey coach. I really love coaching as it's great to see the kids improve and have fun. It's been really rewarding to give back to a sport that opened a lot of doors for me throughout the course of my life.

I've heard that kind of stuff really helps at interview. I've done some youth outreach and have liked it just as much as (if not more than) ER volunteering - those kinds of things are where you can really get some good stories and conversation going with the AdCom people you talk to. The more you can talk about something you enjoy and seem like a likeable person, the better off you are.

 

[ChartaBona]

a) Did you volunteer as an undergrad (or are you currently)?
You won't find a med student who didn't volunteer - it is for all intents and purposes a requirement for acceptance

b) If so, how many hours?
I think most people are over 100 hours - I was probably around 150

c) Was it medical or non-medical experience (or a mix)?
They say a mix is pretty important to have. If you were going to only have one type, have clinical. I had a mix, and I would guess basically all of my classmates do as well.

d) And finally, why did you volunteer? Did you plan on going to med school and know that it would look good on your app or to get exposure to a field? Or was it because you truly enjoy doing it?
Again, I did it because it was a requirement for med school, and many (not all) med students will tell you the same thing. Is it kind of sad and jaded? Yeah. Does that change the facts of the endeavor? Nope. I have spoken to plenty of classmates who really are in to volunteering, and I believe them, but EVERYBODY has some on their CV.

I didn't volunteer one bit, and I was accepted. Your argument is invalid.

I worked 1.5 yrs as one of those low levels that were spread so thin.

 

[UOIT]

Free slave labor!!!!!

😀


Can you just imagine millions of 19-21 year olds volunteering for all the "humanitarian" causes in the world!

 

[swhite92]

I didn't volunteer one bit, and I was accepted. Your argument is invalid.

I worked 1.5 yrs as one of those low levels that were spread so thin.

Well you just explained why your lack of volunteering didn't really matter. Clinical work experience isn't a small thing when applying. What school did you end up at?

 

[nm06003]

a) Yes. Currently volunteering in the ICU.

b) 40 hours so far

c) I volunteer in the ICU, stock up rooms, transfer pt's occasionally.

d) I honestly thought it would be fun and exciting to just be in a hospital. I had to send in an application and the whole process took 4 months in order to volunteer. By the time I was cleared to volunteer, I was already hired as a scribe. Volunteering has been boring so far, and the ICU is not as exciting as the ER. I actually would love if I could interact with patients, but everyone is completely out of it or intubated lol. So all I do is stock up rooms, hang out in the medical supply room or with the nurses. If I'm not doing that I'm circling around the whole ICU waiting for gowns to run out so I can restock them. Yup.

 

[Urnathok]

a) Did you volunteer as an undergrad (or are you currently)?
Yes.
b) If so, how many hours?
About 100 and counting.

c) Was it medical or non-medical experience (or a mix)?
That's kind of hard to pin -- the vast majority of volunteer programs outside of maybe free clinics have strict policies keeping volunteers from doing anything "clinical." The impression I get from my local hospital is that this is due to certain contracts they have with local colleges, which is a pain, but makes sense. If they're paying college tuition to be there, I shouldn't be able to do that for free.

d) And finally, why did you volunteer? Did you plan on going to med school and know that it would look good on your app or to get exposure to a field? Or was it because you truly enjoy doing it?
The gastroenterology lab where I volunteer is extremely laid back and full of very pleasant doctors and nursing staff, so judging by the "drudgery stories" I've heard from other volunteers, this may not be universal. I started there because it was an expected thing for medical admissions, but now that I've been there about six months, I can see why it's expected.

Provided you are not on a floor that is more hectic, like ER, volunteering gives you a good look at 1) basic exposure to the clinic as a workplace, 2) how physicians and nurses interact and what helps everyone work best together, and 3) a broad sense of how patients perceive and are perceived by the staff. Now, all of that may sound flowery and idealistic, but at the end of the day you're getting a fly-on-the-wall perspective of a hospital's modus operandi, so make of that what you will.

I've had a fantastic time helping out, and I plan on keeping it up as long as my class schedule allows, though a couple of the nurses are trying to help me into a job as a tech, so I'll probably drop volunteering once I can get in there as an employee. As long as you're not curmudgeonly about being free labor, I'd strongly recommend it. But again, on more high-strung floors, I can see how volunteers could be seen as more of a nuisance than a help. Try to go somewhere where you can do paperwork and put hookups on people to save the nurses' time.

 

[LiveLoveLearn]

a.) yes

b.) ~150 hours

c.) at a hospital in an orthopaedic floor, at an assisted living facility and on a medical mission trip

d.) A mix between really wanting to help people and gain exposure medicine, and knowing that it is looked upon favorably by medical schools.

I think that getting a quality volunteer spot at a hospital can be really challenging. There are so many people that want them, that the hospitals bring on volunteers for what seems more like a favor than a legitimate need by the facility. At the hospital I volunteered at, I felt that I was practically begging for people to let me do their dirty work so that I wasn't just standing around and in the way. While I am glad to have been able to include that experience on my application, I don't think that I provided much value to the hospital or patients, and kind of just felt like a nuisance.

On the other hand, I chose to volunteer at an assisted living facility that cared for patients suffering from dementia. I went in every week, and spent quality time with these patients - playing games, reading books, doing puzzles, or just telling them about my week. I developed relationships and could see how much my company helped to brighten their days. I never missed a week, and went multiple times if I could. I was also there long enough to experience the pain of losing several of our patients. I really hope that I was able to really better the lives of the individuals that I worked with, and I know that I grew as a person and a future physician from the experience. My medical mission trip was amazing - we helped to provide healthcare for people that don't have the basic necessities of life, and this really enabled me to gain some perspective on life.

At the SNF - I didn't work with or around physicians in this position, so I felt that it was really undervalued on my application, while the hospital gig where I spent most of my time begging Techs to let me restock the bed linens or empty the sharp boxes for them, seemed to take all of the attention.

Tl;dr - I loved my volunteer experiences at the assisted living facility and on my medical mission clinic, and did it because I felt that I was helping people, and that was very rewarding for me. I volunteered at the hospital because pre-med advisors said I should - I was bored, and largely in the way, so didn't feel that I was imparting much benefit to the patients or organization.

 

[loltopsy]

a) Did you volunteer as an undergrad (or are you currently)?
Undergrad and high school, yes.

b) If so, how many hours?
At least 1000 hours. Probably more. I put in ~400 hours one summer in high school (40 hours/week).

c) Was it medical or non-medical experience (or a mix)?
Both. The non-medical stuff was pretty boring. The medical stuff was more interesting, but it was mostly getting patients water/ice etc. The best parts were when I got to stand next to surgeons and watch them operate. I started doing that stuff in high school, and I won't ever forget see a woman's brain pulsating in front of me while the two surgeons casually talked about last night's American Idol.

d) And finally, why did you volunteer? Did you plan on going to med school and know that it would look good on your app or to get exposure to a field? Or was it because you truly enjoy doing it?
Most of it was to fill time. The medical stuff was fun. Shadowing was awesome because the doc I shadowed, he was eccentric. Every day, we would get into philosophical discussions involving and not involving medicine. Rounding in the ICU with him was an all day affair. 7am until 2pm usually. He also taught me a lot about reading CXRs and MRIs.

The non-medical stuff was mostly for med schools while the more clinical stuff was more for me. It was definitely overkill but /shrug.

 

[LizzyM]

One interesting observation....

adcoms want to see that you want to serve others and adcoms want to see that you've had some exposure to clinical settings. People tend to try to kill two birds with one stone and do volunteer work in a clinical setting and then bitch and moan that it was far removed for the presence of patients, etc.

Well, no one said you had to kill two birds with one stone. Get your clinical exposure through shadowing, employment or both and show your willingness to serve others through tutoring, coaching, serving the homeless, etc.

And, btw, I do volunteer to provide face-to-face service to the poor. Not a lot of hours per week but every month for years. And my fellow adcom members have served medical missions (something they are qualified to do), tutored, done advocacy for causes dear to their hearts and so forth. So believe me, we walk the walk.

 

[swhite92]

The gastroenterology lab where I volunteer is extremely laid back and full of very pleasant doctors and nursing staff, so judging by the "drudgery stories" I've heard from other volunteers, this may not be universal. I started there because it was an expected thing for medical admissions, but now that I've been there about six months, I can see why it's expected.

Provided you are not on a floor that is more hectic, like ER, volunteering gives you a good look at 1) basic exposure to the clinic as a workplace, 2) how physicians and nurses interact and what helps everyone work best together, and 3) a broad sense of how patients perceive and are perceived by the staff. Now, all of that may sound flowery and idealistic, but at the end of the day you're getting a fly-on-the-wall perspective of a hospital's modus operandi, so make of that what you will.

I've had a fantastic time helping out, and I plan on keeping it up as long as my class schedule allows, though a couple of the nurses are trying to help me into a job as a tech, so I'll probably drop volunteering once I can get in there as an employee. As long as you're not curmudgeonly about being free labor, I'd strongly recommend it. But again, on more high-strung floors, I can see how volunteers could be seen as more of a nuisance than a help. Try to go somewhere where you can do paperwork and put hookups on people to save the nurses' time.

Thanks for the info! Sounds like you have a pretty good gig there, I'm actually jealous. Your description of the dynamics is right on, I think that seeing how the medical team operates might be one of the most valuable things I've gotten out of my volunteering. Also, being able to talk to the patients and hear them either complain about or praise the staff really helps you understand what makes a good vs. bad doctor or nurse (at least in terms of likeability).

 

[pandahunter]

^meh. still doesn't change the fact that many students (and some who will go on to be great doctors) find most of their motivation for volunteer work in clinical settings from the necessity of playing/winning the game of medical school admission (and not from a place of true altruism). I think more and more adcom members are realizing this, and those who don't are in denial.

 

[mimelim]

^meh. still doesn't change the fact that many students (and some who will go on to be great doctors) find most of their motivation for volunteer work in clinical settings from the necessity of playing/winning the game of medical school admission (and not from a place of true altruism). I think more and more adcom members are realizing this, and those who don't are in denial.

I think that most people are pretty transparent about how they feel about their ECs. People think that they are really good at hiding how they feel, but most people can see through it, especially if you read tons of PS and review hundreds of applications.

 

[LiveLoveLearn]

One interesting observation....

adcoms want to see that you want to serve others and adcoms want to see that you've had some exposure to clinical settings. People tend to try to kill two birds with one stone and do volunteer work in a clinical setting and then bitch and moan that it was far removed for the presence of patients, etc.

Well, no one said you had to kill two birds with one stone. Get your clinical exposure through shadowing, employment or both and show your willingness to serve others through tutoring, coaching, serving the homeless, etc.

And, btw, I do volunteer to provide face-to-face service to the poor. Not a lot of hours per week but every month for years. And my fellow adcom members have served medical missions (something they are qualified to do), tutored, done advocacy for causes dear to their hearts and so forth. So believe me, we walk the walk.

I agree with this completely, as I feel that shadowing or actual work experience provides a much better understanding of what it is like to work in a clinical setting. That being said, unless you know someone, it can be very difficult to get a shadowing or healthcare employment spot. I even cold-called several doctors in addition to asking my husband's PCP, and the physicians that I met at the hospital with no luck. I only took on the additional volunteer gig for the clinical exposure once these attempts proved unfruitful. That being said, I went to a large state school in a fairly small town, so the medical systems there were probably more flooded with students looking for exposure then most.

 

[pandahunter]

I think that most people are pretty transparent about how they feel about their ECs. People think that they are really good at hiding how they feel, but most people can see through it, especially if you read tons of PS and review hundreds of applications.

I'm sure true passion comes out in the interview, and it's definitely easier to talk about volunteering when it involves substantial experiences like being there at the time of death of a patient in a hospice, but I would think most applicants have some sort of hospital volunteering as their main source of clinical experience outside of shadowing. And I challenge anyone to provide an interesting recount of filling water pitchers and folding blankets in an interview.

I mean I've had great experiences volunteering outside of a hospital and I've also had interesting conversations with patients working IN the hospital, but even I think it's hard to believe that so many premeds who volunteered in the hospital met a patient that changed their perspective of medicine so profoundly as to warrant the majority of the 100+ hours in the hospital doing menial labor.

 

[circulus vitios]

One interesting observation....

adcoms want to see that you want to serve others and adcoms want to see that you've had some exposure to clinical settings. People tend to try to kill two birds with one stone and do volunteer work in a clinical setting and then bitch and moan that it was far removed for the presence of patients, etc.

Well, no one said you had to kill two birds with one stone. Get your clinical exposure through shadowing, employment or both and show your willingness to serve others through tutoring, coaching, serving the homeless, etc.

And, btw, I do volunteer to provide face-to-face service to the poor. Not a lot of hours per week but every month for years. And my fellow adcom members have served medical missions (something they are qualified to do), tutored, done advocacy for causes dear to their hearts and so forth. So believe me, we walk the walk.

How many medical students do you think really care about "serving others?"

 

[487806]

During my undergrad, I ended up in the ER with food poisoning - I ended up staying, by signing up to volunteer there. I love the atmosphere, the pace, the culture, the patient-doctor (and nurse) interaction, and pretty much just everything about it. That really turned me towards looking at med school, because I began to realize that (after shadowing some other types of docs) emergency medicine is really what I want to do with my life.

So, I know volunteering looks great on an app, but how great is it really? I think some med schools weight this too much, as many pre-meds only volunteer because it looks good on paper.... As a kind of philosophical question, I want to look at the goals of students who volunteer.

If you want to be a doctor and go to med school, I think you need at least some interest in the common good; otherwise, you will end up being a burned out drone after ten years in practice, only staying with it for the money. When med schools look at an applicant and see a s***load of hours volunteering, it at least proves that you can handle that burden and stick with something. But does it really show that you like doing it?

If you wish to respond, here are the things I want to know:
a) Did you volunteer as an undergrad (or are you currently)?
b) If so, how many hours?
c) Was it medical or non-medical experience (or a mix)?
d) And finally, why did you volunteer? Did you plan on going to med school and know that it would look good on your app or to get exposure to a field? Or was it because you truly enjoy doing it?

a) Yes
b) Several and counting
c) Currently medical.
d) Because it's a requirement. Research is something more interesting and worthwhile doing.

 

[Belle Melodie]

Some people grumble about some small task, like stocking every exam room with bandaids, and say that it means that the low level staff members jobs are easier. What those volunteers may not realize is that the low level staff members are stretched very thin and that when a care provider can reach in and grab a bandaid rather than running around looking for one, the patient's care is smoother.

I never saw it this way and to be quite frank.. It makes a whole lot of sense and i feel like a light bulb went off in my head. Thank you.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

If you wish to respond, here are the things I want to know:
a) Did you volunteer as an undergrad (or are you currently)?
b) If so, how many hours?
c) Was it medical or non-medical experience (or a mix)?
d) And finally, why did you volunteer? Did you plan on going to med school and know that it would look good on your app or to get exposure to a field? Or was it because you truly enjoy doing it?

a) Not as an undergrad (was pre-PhD, my advisers told me to just focus on pumping out as much research as possible), but I'm doing it now

b) Only ~30 hours. It's not nearly as much as I wanted. Unfortunately, the free clinic around here has more volunteers than they can shake a stick at. I tried volunteering with a couple local hospices, but one never picked up the phone or answered their email, and the other was happy to let me come on board but were too incompetent to get me into their database (long story) so that never happened either. I gave up after that.

c) Non-medical

d) my 30 hours were at said free clinic when they had stuff no one else wanted to do. I did it because I'm a huge proponent of universal healthcare and currently free clinics are the only way the working poor are going to get healthcare.

On a side note, while it's too late for my app, I'm thinking I might look into tutoring old people how to use a computer at the library. Not sure if that's a job open to volunteers though, but it'd be pretty fun I think.

 

[amazing tekkers]

Free slave labor!!!!!

😀


Can you just imagine millions of 19-21 year olds volunteering for all the "humanitarian" causes in the world!

Spot on.

 

[mimelim]

I'm sure true passion comes out in the interview, and it's definitely easier to talk about volunteering when it involves substantial experiences like being there at the time of death of a patient in a hospice, but I would think most applicants have some sort of hospital volunteering as their main source of clinical experience outside of shadowing. And I challenge anyone to provide an interesting recount of filling water pitchers and folding blankets in an interview.

I mean I've had great experiences volunteering outside of a hospital and I've also had interesting conversations with patients working IN the hospital, but even I think it's hard to believe that so many premeds who volunteered in the hospital met a patient that changed their perspective of medicine so profoundly as to warrant the majority of the 100+ hours in the hospital doing menial labor.

To be honest, I have always thought that volunteering to do menial labor at a hospital was a waste of time which is why I didn't do it. I have no idea why anyone would do it. There are far better things to do with your time. Nobody is forcing you to get your clinical experience as a hospital volunteer (see LizzyM's post). Further, I would say looking at hospital volunteers, I'd say that it is a piss poor clinical experience on average. I'd put more stock in dedicated shadowing when looking at an application.

 

[Xenops]

Well, no one said you had to kill two birds with one stone. Get your clinical exposure through shadowing, employment or both and show your willingness to serve others through tutoring, coaching, serving the homeless, etc.

LizzyM, how I love thee. 😍 I volunteer through the school by helping exchange students with their English. This I find fun and satisfying, but folding towels at a hospital... 🙁

 

[Freesia88]

If you wish to respond, here are the things I want to know:
a) Did you volunteer as an undergrad (or are you currently)?
b) If so, how many hours?
c) Was it medical or non-medical experience (or a mix)?
d) And finally, why did you volunteer? Did you plan on going to med school and know that it would look good on your app or to get exposure to a field? Or was it because you truly enjoy doing it?

a. Yes
b. I put in between 1-2 hours a week.
c. Mix. I volunteer in hospice and I am a trained nurse aide. Sometimes it's just hanging out and sometimes it's actual patient care.
d. I do it mostly because when I was employed as a nurse aid, I saw first hand how important volunteer visits were to the well being of the residents. Exposure to geriatric patients will also help me ultimately as it is a field I plan to complete at least a fellowship in. Do I enjoy it? It has it's moments. Watching a person die can be heartbreaking but it can also be inspiring.

 

[BLACKMD]

I volunteer in a free medical clinic. I volunteer there because I want too. I love medicine and I have a passion for under served. My only other volunteer experience is with the military. Which is relatively for the same reason. I owe these vets. The least I can do is help feed/clothe them. Hours per week averages 8.

 

[ram1senk]

I posted in another forum about my experience volunteering at the local hospice house, so I won't be repetitive. But, I went into it with the attitude of just doing it to put on my application, and it has instead turned into easily my favorite six hours of the week (okay maybe besides Fridays and Saturdays from 9-2). Cliché to say, but truly changes your whole perspective on not only medicine, but life in general.

 

[Aerus]

a) Did you volunteer as an undergrad (or are you currently)?

Currently volunteering. Hoping to add three more volunteer gigs before next year..

b) If so, how many hours?

I have quite a few hours.

c) Was it medical or non-medical experience (or a mix)?

Medical and Nonmedical right now. I tutor and do clinical research in the ED.

d) And finally, why did you volunteer? Did you plan on going to med school and know that it would look good on your app or to get exposure to a field? Or was it because you truly enjoy doing it?

I love tutoring, so much it probably has become a hobby of mine. I would do it again and again whether medical school was in the equation or not. Clinical research is also really fun, since it's actually direct patient contact.

Stocking rooms and folding beds....that's a different story haha.

 

[JustinD]

a) Yes
b) Not many, this is my 4th week of volunteering (once a week) at a place
c) Non-medical, I help hand out food at a food pantry
d) I think for anyone who is a pre-med it has at least once crossed their mind that they could actually or will use this on their application. It would be ironic to say that a pre-med would volunteer for 100% the sake of volunteering, if they are going to be using it on their apps.

However, I think it helps pass the time much much faster if you actually enjoy the job you are doing. It doesn't cross my mind every shift as to why i'm actually there and that I'm using it on an app. It crossed my mind when I applied for the position, but once I started it hasnt been lingering. If I was stuck cleaning the supply room at a slow hospital, it would easily cross my mind much more.

My word of advice would be to find something that you will enjoy doing, not something that just looks the best on an application. Sure if I volunteered at a hospital cleaning supply rooms it might look better on an application. But I would not enjoy that, and I would much rather focus on something that will help prepare myself to become a doctor, than to just become a doctor.

 

[wjs010]

LizzyM, how I love thee. 😍 I volunteer through the school by helping exchange students with their English. This I find fun and satisfying, but folding towels at a hospital... 🙁

I did the same thing lol. ELS? My local hospital won't let anyone set foot in the ER to volunteer.. So I had to go to a smaller, specialty acute inpatient hospital to get direct patient contact. Honestly, I get so much interaction with even just shadowing... I enjoy shadowing even though I know I can only learn so much right now . Still , I think most people feel they have to be ahead of the game... I can't really blame them. Nothing wrong with wanting to have a wonderful career and trying extremely hard to get there.

 

[jm192]

During my undergrad, I ended up in the ER with food poisoning - I ended up staying, by signing up to volunteer there. I love the atmosphere, the pace, the culture, the patient-doctor (and nurse) interaction, and pretty much just everything about it. That really turned me towards looking at med school, because I began to realize that (after shadowing some other types of docs) emergency medicine is really what I want to do with my life.

So, I know volunteering looks great on an app, but how great is it really? I think some med schools weight this too much, as many pre-meds only volunteer because it looks good on paper.... As a kind of philosophical question, I want to look at the goals of students who volunteer.

If you want to be a doctor and go to med school, I think you need at least some interest in the common good; otherwise, you will end up being a burned out drone after ten years in practice, only staying with it for the money. When med schools look at an applicant and see a s***load of hours volunteering, it at least proves that you can handle that burden and stick with something. But does it really show that you like doing it?

If you wish to respond, here are the things I want to know:
a) Did you volunteer as an undergrad (or are you currently)?
b) If so, how many hours?
c) Was it medical or non-medical experience (or a mix)?
d) And finally, why did you volunteer? Did you plan on going to med school and know that it would look good on your app or to get exposure to a field? Or was it because you truly enjoy doing it?

A. Yes
B. ~250
C. Mix, 2/3 non-medical, 1/3 medical
D. Because it made my application look good. Anyone that is on here does it to make their application look good. It's very fulfilling, a lot of people love it. But, making your app look pretty is why peoplpe on here do things.

Why do med schools care? You're going to look someone in the face one day and utter the words "I like to help people." And, they're going to want to see that you've been helping people.

Also, it takes away from study time. It's pretty easy to get a 4.0 if all you ever do is study study study. Let us take away some of that precious time and then see how you do.

 

[notbobtrustme]

To be honest, I have always thought that volunteering to do menial labor at a hospital was a waste of time which is why I didn't do it. I have no idea why anyone would do it. There are far better things to do with your time. Nobody is forcing you to get your clinical experience as a hospital volunteer (see LizzyM's post). Further, I would say looking at hospital volunteers, I'd say that it is a piss poor clinical experience on average. I'd put more stock in dedicated shadowing when looking at an application.

Because it's ****ing easy dude. Sit in a corner, grab a good book and grind out 50 hours in a summer. Boom done, move on with the rest of your application. I "volunteered" at an ED and 99% of time consisted me of sitting in the corner with a book or Angry Birds and staying out of everyone's way. Waste of time? Sure. But it was ****ing easy.

Secondly, not everyone can find that deep and meaningful experience. Consider that there are 40k+ pre-med students who apply to school every year. There isn't enough "meaningful, engaging" bull**** out there for everyone. For every person who finds that type of EC, ten of us just ground out 100 hours in the ED and moved on with our lives. Most of us don't have 6-10 months to look for some meaningful experience; we'd rather just grind out 100 hours in the ED, plop that on the app and move the **** on.