Why is pathology uncompetitive?

[internist88]

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Hi,

I recently attended a pathology career informational session at a hospital today, and now I see why people are telling me (I'm in high school....yes u read correctly) that I shouldn't be worrying about choosing a speciality already. Because at first I was sure I wanted to do Surgery, or IM, but after seeing this, pathology seems like a neat field, but I'm digress. My point is, why is it that when I asked how compeititive path was to one of doctors, he said that the competition is low given that they make a lot (according to salary.com around 220k average+), and probably have better hours than say something like cardiology, surgery, or anesthesiology? Is it because of the lack of prestige, or boring or what?

also, if you can, please tell me what you think of the field.

thanks

 

[veo1]

Hi,

I recently attended a pathology career informational session at a hospital today, and now I see why people are telling me (I'm in high school....yes u read correctly) that I shouldn't be worrying about choosing a speciality already. Because at first I was sure I wanted to do Surgery, or IM, but after seeing this, pathology seems like a neat field, but I'm digress. My point is, why is it that when I asked how compeititive path was to one of doctors, he said that the competition is low given that they make a lot (according to salary.com around 220k average+), and probably have better hours than say something like cardiology, surgery, or anesthesiology? Is it because of the lack of prestige, or boring or what?

also, if you can, please tell me what you think of the field.

thanks

Its never to early to start thinking about career choice, esp. in medicine. I'm currently an MS-IV applying for path this year. It looks like I'll be the only one applying for a categorical path position next year out of a class of 150 (there's one guy who is semi-interested and going the military route, has to do a transitional year, and may end up getting sidetracked). Out of the class of 2006 at my school, NO ONE applied to path last year. We could go on for days about why ppl aren't doing path (although it is getting more competitive from what I hear). I think a lot of it stems from misinformation and lack of exposure to the field. At my school (and plenty others I'm sure) you're not required to do a pathology rotation thus the only exposure you get is during the 2nd year pathology course which is not at all representative of the field. A lot of people do find it boring (some of my classmates are like, man, i really couldn't sit behind a microscope all day). Lack of prestige is a likely factor as well, after all pathologists aren't real doctors ppl say. Its kinda sad. A lot of my classmates are absolutely miserable but choose fields for prestige and/or financial reasons. A good friend of mine is applying to IM programs this year yet says she is fed up with medicine and "doesn't really want to be a doctor anymore". I think family pressure is more of an issue in her case. There are all kinds of reasons dude. At the end of the day keep all of your options open. Don't go to med school with your mind set on one field as things will happen that change the way you think, esp. during the clinical years. Good to hear some sensible, non-idealistic thinking from a high schooler, as it seems to be lacking in most of my classmates!

 

[Gene_]

Its never to early to start thinking about career choice, esp. in medicine.

???

Ask this question again when you're in medical school. Your best preparation now is to be a NORMAL high school kid, ie. not the one who does extra homework for "fun" and talks about what kind of doctor they want to be.

 

[rirriri]

Pathology has become far more competitive over the past 5 years or so, and i expect it to continue climbing in competitive nature. Remember that 15 or 20 years ago, Radiology was THE easiest specialty to get into; no one wanted to do it. Now Rads is definitely at the peak of desirability considering its history. Pathology has made a slow and consistent rise towards competitiveness. If the # of residency positions is decreased, then the competition will surely rise as well.

I was speaking to the chairmen of our department a few weeks ago and we both agreed that exposure (or the LACK of...) is what the main contributor to the lack of widespread applications to Path.

it's already changing....and will continue to change.....especially when people realise that the field is hardly "dead people"...in fact Path is the reason people often STAY alive......it's SO MUCH science, it's the backbone of clinical medicine...

 

[uhoh!]

Path, non-competitive? Maybe you should ask this Q again around Feb-March, when the match-day is drawing closer and anxiety levels are peaking...All I can say about people who don't even consider it though they go through medical school is: their loss. They really have no clue what they are missing.

I guess one of the reasons is it is VERY different form the stuff you are exposed to in clinical medicine during your final years. A lot more people go into other fields by default, while Path requires someone to take some interest and find out about it a bit more, over-and-above the stuff you see everyday.

But, I guess that is true for any field you are seriously interested in. For now, get past undergrad, see if you still want to get into Med school, and then see where it takes you, without any pre-concieved notions. I honestly didn't consider Path till I was in my final year and realized the clinical medicine thing wasn't for me. Though its never too late to think about what you want to do, it is waaaaay more important to make an informed choice. Esp about something you will be working very hard at for a very, very long time.
Good luck!

 

[veo1]

???

Ask this question again when you're in medical school. Your best preparation now is to be a NORMAL high school kid, ie. not the one who does extra homework for "fun" and talks about what kind of doctor they want to be.

Must we really antagonize one another? Geez. And you don't call 'talking about what kind of doctor you want to be' thinking about a career choice (exactly what I said in my post)? Chill out man.

 

[yaah]

Pathology may be boring to some people, in particular, it is definitely boring to those who know nothing about it and judge the field on rumor and stereotype. I am rarely bored in residency - some CP months are a little boring, but I have so much other stuff to do that is interesting.

I found floor medicine the pinnacle of boredom. Office practice was more interesting, even the OR was more interesting.

As said, peoples' exposure to path consists of 1) 2nd year path lab which is geared towards learning things for a test, and is similar to having people develop an interest in pharmacology based on med school classes; 2) Rumor and hearsay from loudmouths in other specialties who don't know what pathology is yet talk about it a lot; 3) TV shows which have little to do with reality; 4) Assumption that because there is less patient contact it is somehow less of a field.

Path is not for everyone. I'm glad that there are other fields which tend to suck off some of the personality types that are terrible to work with (major prestige ***** gunners, short attention spans, slackers who test well, adrenaline junkies, people overcompensating for a poor childhood, etc).

 

[Gut Shot]

Pathology has become far more competitive over the past 5 years or so, and i expect it to continue climbing in competitive nature. Remember that 15 or 20 years ago, Radiology was THE easiest specialty to get into; no one wanted to do it. Now Rads is definitely at the peak of desirability considering its history. Pathology has made a slow and consistent rise towards competitiveness. If the # of residency positions is decreased, then the competition will surely rise as well.

A couple of years ago I saw Fred Silva present match data for pathology dating back to the late 1970's. It underscored the fact that, historically, applications to pathology have waxed and waned on ten year cycles, with low points falling in 1980, 1990, and 2000. It rose again from 2001-2005, and the match data from 2006 is remarkably similar to 2005 (91.4% fill rate both years, 62 vs. 60% US, 525 vs 526 positions).

The next two years will likely demonstrate if the pattern will continue. I, for one, will be watching with great interest to see if pathology's popularity once again softly spirals downward.

As for rads, that's an interesting example of market dynamics changing dramatically in a short period. One of my brothers is a radiologist. When he matched in 1993 it was super-competitive. Four years later the bottom had dropped out. Nobody could find a job anywhere. Four more years later it had reversed with a vengeance. Much of this reversal had to do with the spread of imaging technology and the burnout of the old guard (the only ones who were working in the mid-90's).

I suspect pathology could someday pull a similar stunt with non- or minimally invasive molecular screening tests, if the technology ever pans out.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I suspect pathology could someday pull a similar stunt with non- or minimally invasive molecular screening tests, if the technology ever pans out.

This isn't gonna happen for a while.

 

[mlw03]

one thing that hasn't been mentioned that i think accounts for a lot of the reason path is relatively uncompetitive is that there are a lot of med students who just want to interact with patients. clearly the people who go into path are OK with not getting that type of interaction, but most people go to med school with the idea that they'll be dealing with patients on a daily basis, and to enter a specialty where that simply doesn't happen is unappealing to them. the only other specialty i can think of with a similarly low level of patient contact is diagnostic radiology (where all they do is read films - no interventional stuff, no fluoro, etc).

 

[Gut Shot]

This isn't gonna happen for a while.

Agreed, but if it does we should be positioned to lay claim to it.

 

[fatboy]

one thing that hasn't been mentioned that i think accounts for a lot of the reason path is relatively uncompetitive is that there are a lot of med students who just want to interact with patients. clearly the people who go into path are OK with not getting that type of interaction, but most people go to med school with the idea that they'll be dealing with patients on a daily basis, and to enter a specialty where that simply doesn't happen is unappealing to them. the only other specialty i can think of with a similarly low level of patient contact is diagnostic radiology (where all they do is read films - no interventional stuff, no fluoro, etc).

How is pathology uncompetitive when path residents have better Step 1 scores, more research/pubs, and are even more likely to be AOA than IM, peds, FP, PMR, OB, surg, psych, and ER? I would even venture to say that percentage wise, path residents are more likely to have a PhD as well. I mean we're clearly not Rad-Onc, but I think we're far from "uncompetitive"...

http://www.nrmp.org/matchoutcomes.pdf

 

[Cabbage Head]

How is pathology uncompetitive when path residents have better Step 1 scores, more research/pubs, and are even more likely to be AOA than IM, peds, FP, PMR, OB, surg, psych, and ER? I would even venture to say that percentage wise, path residents are more likely to have a PhD as well. I mean we're clearly not Rad-Onc, but I think we're far from "uncompetitive"...

http://www.nrmp.org/matchoutcomes.pdf

He didn't say we weren't competitive residents, he wanted to know why it wasn't difficult to land a spot as a pathology resident...compared to some other specialties.

 

[1Path]

Is it because of the lack of prestige, or boring or what?

It isn't considered sexy, in other words "Dr.McDreamy" could NEVER be a pathologist!

 

[mcfaddens]

It isn't considered sexy, in other words "Dr.McDreamy" could NEVER be a pathologist!

Actually this Dr. McDeamy left pathology to persue an acting career

 

[Jiminy Cricket]

It isn't considered sexy, in other words "Dr.McDreamy" could NEVER be a pathologist!

the "real world" McDreamy is 5'7" with a gut that hangs lower than his ischemic sack of balls....lol.