Why Isn't Anatomy and Physiology a Prerequisite?

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Chevy Chase Fan

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Seems like the most relevant class of any. Kinda bummed because I'm taking it this summer and doing very well in it. Be sweet if it counted toward the prereqs.

For those of you who have taken it, how did it compare to chemistry and physics? Was it harder or easier? Trying to get an idea for what I should expect in the Fall.
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I haven't taken either (anatomy/physio), so I can only speculate (having taken chem 1/2).

Gen chem was pretty much a memorization/plug and chug type course while I'm pretty sure physiology requires more applications of concepts that you learn throughout the course. If it is anything like the cell biology course I took in the Spring, the difficulty is not comparable.
 
It's not a pre-req because you are going to learn it in so much detail in med-school anyways it would be kind of pointless to. Can't help you with the other questions.
 
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A&P is a good class to take period. Its relatively fun and more or less lightweight. And why its not a specific pre-requisite is because which biology class isn't specified. There are simply too many biology classes. Not to mention anatomy and physiology is only offered by a few schools and primarily those with nursing programs.
 
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serenade said:
A&P is a good class to take period. Its relatively fun and more or less lightweight.
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I have never heard of it being lightweight..I actually heard it can be pretty difficult.
 
chman said:
I have never heard of it being lightweight..I actually heard it can be pretty difficult.
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It's school dependent and person dependent. My A&P class wasn't heavy in my eyes, it required a little bit of reading and studying. The labs a bitch, but otherwise nothing too bad.
 
its not required b/c you have to learn it in much greater detail in med school (as was stated above).

and comparibly its tougher b/c of the amount of info you have to learn is much larger. the concepts are not as difficult as the ones you will learn in chem in physics though. hope that helps.
 
chman said:
I have never heard of it being lightweight..I actually heard it can be pretty difficult.
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I've seen it make nursing students cry. The never slept. The ate Taco Bell every singe day. They memorized the entire text, studied for weeks and all they got was an 80 on the final.

I took it in high school. I'm not sure what the college course would entail, but I only took it because I needed help drawing people.
 
I study a lot for this class. Its for nursing and health science students. Definitely one of the harder classes I've taken, although I haven't gotten to chem and physics like I said. Its giving me some confidence after being out of school for a while though, and that's a big thing for me.

I haven't taken bio since highschool (like 7 years ago), so that'd be pretty sweet if my AP I and II will count for the bio prereqs. That's 2 less classes I have to take in a mountain of daunting classes.
 
serenade said:
The labs a bitch, but otherwise nothing too bad.
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Yes, the lab is a major pain. What's most annoying is the numbers are rubbing off all the models at my school, which makes learning where everything is incredibly aggravating.

What are chem and physics labs like? I have no idea what to expect. Are they easier?
 
Chevy Chase Fan said:
Yes, the lab is a major pain. What's most annoying is the numbers are rubbing off all the models at my school, which makes learning where everything is incredibly aggravating.

What are chem and physics labs like? I have no idea what to expect. Are they easier?
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Chem requires that you be more careful, especially OChem. If you are good at baking (not cooking...baking), you will probably be good at Chem lab. It is all about following directions to the letter.

Physics lab was a joke at my school so I can't really tell you.
 
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because the pre-med requirements are MINIMUM requirements and BASICS that everyone must know PRIOR to starting to medical school...you need that basic foundation to be strong before you can build on it and understand the more advanced science in medical school...
 
starxed said:
I've seen it make nursing students cry. The never slept. The ate Taco Bell every singe day. They memorized the entire text, studied for weeks and all they got was an 80 on the final.
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Now try to imagine what would happen if they took the medical school version of these courses.
 
Some schools offer one class that is A&P. At mine, those were 2 different classes at 4 credit hours each (both had a lab). I'm sure at some schools both are offered but some programs will take the A&P "bundle" and other majors might require the full-length seprate classes. That might explain the difference in rigor that people are talking about. I found them to be pretty challenging compared to my other classes.
 
I took dual enrollment (college level) A&P my senior year of high school. It was pretty in depth and took a ton of work.

I am in my third week of anatomy class now at med school. It is a whole different ball game.

Plus, the point of pre-reqs are to give you basic principles and understanding. It's silly to make a class that you're going to take to be taken before you actually get there. If you have a desire to take it, go for it. But it certainly won't make anatomy cake for you.
 
I took anatomy and physiology separately + physiology lab. Each of those was a full credit class. Anatomy was pretty memorization intensive but we didn't have a lab to really do anything in person. Did have an AMAZING anatomy book though. Physio was probably one of the most interesting classes I've taken in college and even though it was graded straight scale, it was fairly easy imo compared to other bio classes, especially the physics stuff. Also had the physio book from the same publisher that was fantastic. In my opinion, physio lab was harder than both classes because it had a little bit of both and you had to do more in depth stuff.

personally though, i'd rather take it ALL again then set foot in another physics lecture. That's just me though.
 
yeah, i got physics coming up and am a little intimidated by it. i think for me the key is probably just to demystify it, not put it on so much of a pedestal. im very strong in classes that require taking in large amounts of information, and less comfortable in classes that require the application of conceptually difficult principles.
 
I thought anatomy was harder than physiology. anatomy is a bunch of memorization. physiology is easier because you are already familiar with most of your bodies functions. Pathophys and Medical Micro (or Pathogenic Micro), now thats a different story....

The little anedote about the nurses is lame. I majored in nursing and I aced all the classes above (cept Med Micro 🙁). I suppose some programs could use those as nursing weeder courses and that could explain why they are more difficulte, but as serenade said, its totally person dependent.

As far as chem and phsyics go, they arent bad if you are okay with your math. I hate math so I struggled to make good grades in those (worthless) pre reqs.
 
I think the reason most don't is that a lot of the time anatomy classes are not open to people that are not either allied health (sports medicine, kinesiology, etc..) or nursing majors into their class.

The biology department normally offers upper division physiology only for people not in those majors. (At least at my school)
 
Chevy Chase Fan said:
Seems like the most relevant class of any. Kinda bummed because I'm taking it this summer and doing very well in it. Be sweet if it counted toward the prereqs.

For those of you who have taken it, how did it compare to chemistry and physics? Was it harder or easier? Trying to get an idea for what I should expect in the Fall.
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I ve always thought that undergrad, especially for pre meds, was a test to see how well you learn scientific and mathematical concepts rather than a "preparation" for a medical career. I ve always wondered when on earth I would ever use physics as a physician but physics, my opinion, facilitates a certain problem solving complex that is necessary in a physician,: look at given facts observe, identify problem type (diagnosis), apply a method/equation (treatment). Just like a lot of physics major go into law, being good at a course doesn't necessarily indicate that you would be a good doctor: anatomy is mostly memorization anyways.
 
chman said:
It's not a pre-req because you are going to learn it in so much detail in med-school anyways it would be kind of pointless to. Can't help you with the other questions.
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I took anatomy+lab and it was almost a cake. But wouldn't learning it in introductory detail help when learning it in detail? Math is always easier if you already knew how to add and subtract.
 
Anatomy at my school was just a lot of memorization packed into a small time-frame (med students insert mocking laughter here), but overall pretty easy, while phys was a bit more abstract. Our professor would give us case studies on a regular basis where we would have to figure out the consequences of some condition, or if some person is presenting with some symptoms, what can the underlying causes be. She had a tendency to focus on some of the most unusual diseases, which made these studies difficult to figure out but very interesting at the same time.
 
I don't know about OSU, but OU probably requires it because a huge percentage of their class were Zoology majors (OU does not have a "biology" major) and it was a required course anyway. CVA at Oklahoma is pretty difficult- it felt a lot worse to me that "a piece of cake" that others have experienced on this thread.
 
i've wondered about this also. It's not a pre-req for my major, but I'll probably end up taking it as an elective.
 
MDhomieG said:
I ve always thought that undergrad, especially for pre meds, was a test to see how well you learn scientific and mathematical concepts rather than a "preparation" for a medical career. I ve always wondered when on earth I would ever use physics as a physician but physics, my opinion, facilitates a certain problem solving complex that is necessary in a physician,: look at given facts observe, identify problem type (diagnosis), apply a method/equation (treatment). Just like a lot of physics major go into law, being good at a course doesn't necessarily indicate that you would be a good doctor: anatomy is mostly memorization anyways.
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Agree with this.

Med schools are quite confident that they can teach you what you need to know IN medical school. Thus they don't require you to take medical school coursework prior to actually going to medical school.
 
Vadoff said:
Now try to imagine what would happen if they took the medical school version of these courses.
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"It's down the street not across it. You wanna get the job done right, don't you?"

-Courtesy of my friend C.
 
Anatomy and Physiology are not pre reqs because you are going to be taking those courses in med school. It makes no sense taking stuff before med school that you are going to be learning about later anyway.

Only exception for some schools is Biochem....(Harvard)
 
cadavers are expensive. it seems like making anatomy be a pre-med class would be disastrous and a big waste of money for the university, especially if half the people who enroll in the class drop it. and without cadavers, i think the class is pretty worthless.

i took anatomy in undergrad anyway. gross anatomy (two prosected cadavers for the whole class) which i thought was really great- at the time when i took it, i was still deciding whether i wanted to do medicine at all, and it definitely positively influenced the decision. then i took a&p for nursing majors (they wouldnt let me into the regular physio class since i was an art major) and it was extremely easy and not all that useful IMO. all based on plastic models. it was stupid.

so due to the cost issue i doubt a&p will be a prereq anytime soon. but if people feel compelled to take anatomy in UG anyway, i think it can be useful so long as you have realistic expectations of how it will help you. i think its good to become comfortable with cadavers before med school. i think if you do well, it will probably look nice on your transcript. it wont help all that much when it comes to med school anatomy though, because it won't have been as in-depth and you'll probably have forgotten most of it already anyway.

edit- anatomy was also really useful for me because my professor liked me and wrote a great LOR. thats something to consider if you're thinking about taking upper level bio classes- they are smaller and can probably generate much better LORs for you than your prof from intro to bio with 200 students in it.
 
well, if you apply to physical therapy school, they require A&P as a prereq, and you spend a lot of time in PT school learning A&P. I see what people are saying though.
 
I thought it was a prereq.

I took it at my school and, just like every science course I've taken there, it was easy.
 
ClulessTransfer said:
I thought it was a prereq.

I took it at my school and, just like every science course I've taken there, it was easy.
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It's listed as recommended for some schools. 10-11 MSAR.
Only a handful require it.

Your last sentence worries me.
 
MaryLennox said:
cadavers are expensive. it seems like making anatomy be a pre-med class would be disastrous and a big waste of money for the university, especially if half the people who enroll in the class drop it. and without cadavers, i think the class is pretty worthless.

i took anatomy in undergrad anyway. gross anatomy (two prosected cadavers for the whole class) which i thought was really great- at the time when i took it, i was still deciding whether i wanted to do medicine at all, and it definitely positively influenced the decision. then i took a&p for nursing majors (they wouldnt let me into the regular physio class since i was an art major) and it was extremely easy and not all that useful IMO. all based on plastic models. it was stupid.

so due to the cost issue i doubt a&p will be a prereq anytime soon. but if people feel compelled to take anatomy in UG anyway, i think it can be useful so long as you have realistic expectations of how it will help you. i think its good to become comfortable with cadavers before med school. i think if you do well, it will probably look nice on your transcript. it wont help all that much when it comes to med school anatomy though, because it won't have been as in-depth and you'll probably have forgotten most of it already anyway.

edit- anatomy was also really useful for me because my professor liked me and wrote a great LOR. thats something to consider if you're thinking about taking upper level bio classes- they are smaller and can probably generate much better LORs for you than your prof from intro to bio with 200 students in it.
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That must be awesome. I wish my school had cadavers...
 
starxed said:
Your last sentence worries me.
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i believe s/he posted another thing about transferring from CC to a 4 year school . . . so does that mean they took all their pre-reqs at CC? that would explain it, but i don't know if that was necessarily a good idea for them
 
My thought is although its not a pre-req, it (like several other upper-level bio classes) can probably help you on the bio science section of the MCAT and definitely won't hurt you at any rate
 
Chops369 said:
Undergrad level A&P is 100% cake IMO.
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This is completely school-dependent. At my school, A&P I & II was two separate classes (year-long series) and both came with labs. They were four credit hours a piece and part of the Bio major curriculum. I'd say it was more difficult than Chem II, but not Chem I. It was about as difficult as Orgo I & II and easier than Physics, which I hated with a passion.

It all depends on how it's taught/tested. I had a professor who was an MD and he used to test the phys part conceptually, so you had to really understand it in order to apply it. At some schools, it's all memorization and some people find that easier.
 
Sammich117 said:
I took dual enrollment (college level) A&P my senior year of high school. It was pretty in depth and took a ton of work.

I am in my third week of anatomy class now at med school. It is a whole different ball game.

Plus, the point of pre-reqs are to give you basic principles and understanding. It's silly to make a class that you're going to take to be taken before you actually get there. If you have a desire to take it, go for it. But it certainly won't make anatomy cake for you.
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Med school anatomy won't be cake no matter what, but I found that having the knowledge of A&P I & II made it easier for me. I'd at least heard of the majority of the structures we were studying and had some knowledge of their function, unlike some of my classmates.
 
BrainBuff said:
Anatomy and Physiology are not pre reqs because you are going to be taking those courses in med school. It makes no sense taking stuff before med school that you are going to be learning about later anyway.

Only exception for some schools is Biochem....(Harvard)
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Your rationalization isn't really accurate. If that was the case, no school would require biochem, genetics, micro, etc. Even Gen Bio I is just med school Cell Bio watered down. Undergrad A&P is to med school A&P what undergrad Biochem is to med school Biochem. It won't make you ace it at the med school level, but it will help you since you have a foundation in it.
 
IMO, pre-reqs are meant to be building blocks for medical study. Mastering pre-reqs allows you master more specific and relevant subjects - like A&P. Understanding chemical forces, basics of biology, physical forces, etc. is essential to learn medicine. Obviously taking A&P in undergrad might help a bit for when you learn it in medical school, but it's not essential. Just my opinion.
 
Chevy Chase Fan said:
Seems like the most relevant class of any. Kinda bummed because I'm taking it this summer and doing very well in it. Be sweet if it counted toward the prereqs.

For those of you who have taken it, how did it compare to chemistry and physics? Was it harder or easier? Trying to get an idea for what I should expect in the Fall.
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>>


Undergraduate AP is a survey course, thus making it less relevant than actual biology and chemistry when it comes down to maximum effeciency of time.

I took AP 1 and 2, and they were hard. Not so hard that I didn't pull A's in both, but still hard because of what they were trying to do. For me, I find survey courses to be the absolute worst. Too much information, no depth, spotty coverage of topics. Really, 1 system per week is not enough time to learn- just enough time to realize how little you know lol and confuse you. Our teacher liked to test us on trivia, and overlooked the entire "big picture" of actually understanding anything.
I took them both for nursing since my original plan was to become a Nurse Practitioner, but instead it sent me running straight into pre-med.
 
MDhomieG said:
I ve always thought that undergrad, especially for pre meds, was a test to see how well you learn scientific and mathematical concepts rather than a "preparation" for a medical career. I ve always wondered when on earth I would ever use physics as a physician but physics, my opinion, facilitates a certain problem solving complex that is necessary in a physician,: look at given facts observe, identify problem type (diagnosis), apply a method/equation (treatment). Just like a lot of physics major go into law, being good at a course doesn't necessarily indicate that you would be a good doctor: anatomy is mostly memorization anyways.
Click to expand...
>>


I couldn't agree more, well said!
 
CookDeRosa said:
>>I took AP 1 and 2, and they were hard. Not so hard that I didn't pull A's in both, but still hard because of what they were trying to do. For me, I find survey courses to be the absolute worst. Too much information, no depth, spotty coverage of topics. Really, 1 system per week is not enough time to learn- just enough time to realize how little you know lol and confuse you. Our teacher liked to test us on trivia, and overlooked the entire "big picture" of actually understanding anything.
I took them both for nursing since my original plan was to become a Nurse Practitioner, but instead it sent me running straight into pre-med.
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Just wait until you get to med school!
 
Quaero said:
I took anatomy+lab and it was almost a cake. But wouldn't learning it in introductory detail help when learning it in detail? Math is always easier if you already knew how to add and subtract.
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Eh, I don't know, maybe. One thing I hear though is that it is easy to forget a lot of it so you end up going over what you learned again anyways.
 
Is it smart to take it anyway even though its not required by most schools?
 
The anatomy part won't really be that helpful, but the physiology will be pretty helpful for the MCAT in my opinion.
 
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