Why MDA??

[DreamLover]

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I honestly don't understand why as a field we let people refer to us as MDAs

I prefer MD, like every other MD in the entire country......

My pet peeve in the OR (okay...ONE of them) is when the circulator says let's do the timeout, and the scrub chimes in, "we can't do it until the doctor is in the room"....when I am standing right there....taking care of the patient...already under GA. I know they mean, the surgeon needs to be present as well....but they sure as hell can't do it if I'm not there either.

I prefer to be very good at what I do and fly under the radar and take care of my business...but when everyone in the hospital wears a long white coat...when the pharmacists are completing "residencies" and CRNA's are getting online PhDs.....I'm feeling like we're being attacked from all corners

Sometimes I feel like people expect me to apologize to them for being a doctor, like I did something to them personally....like I should be ashamed because as a physician, I am taking advantage of people and stealing their hard earned money and blowing it on beer and pretzels in my box seats at the Knicks games....if life was like that I wouldn't want to go to bed at 530 pm because Im so tired I don't even feel like eating

I encourage everyone to introduce themselves as doctor, be sure your patient knows who you are and that you are taking care of them...protect the practice of anesthesiology...remember...you are a physician treating the patient...not just an anesthetist performing algorithms

I'm going to bed...it's been a long day 😎

 

[jwk]

I completely agree. When pre-oping patients, I have been taking a moment to explain the difference between a MD and a CRNA and what each of our roles are in their care.

and AA's, if you have them. 😉

A similar pet peeve is the "Hey anesthesia" crap. My name isn't "anesthesia", and I don't answer to "anesthesia".

 

[Planktonmd]

What you are feeling right now is what you will be feeling for the rest of your career.
People will always underestimate you.
You will always be disrespected and every one around will think that they can do your job better than you do (including surgeons, nurses, cleaning people...etc)
There will always be nurses who will talk down to you.
You will always work in the background and most of the time no one will thank you for doing a good job.
Your patients most of the time will not even understand why they need you.
If any of these things is something you can not live with then leave now because it will not get better.

 

[DreamLover]

What you are feeling right now is what you will be feeling for the rest of your career.
People will always underestimate you.
You will always be disrespected and every one around will think that they can do your job better than you do (including surgeons, nurses, cleaning people...etc)
There will always be nurses who will talk down to you.
You will always work in the background and most of the time no one will thank you for doing a good job.
Your patients most of the time will not even understand why they need you.
If any of these things is something you can not live with then leave now because it will not get better.

That's depressing

I could care less what others think about me personally...but how the world views what Anesthesiologists do as a whole...affects me directly...and I do care about the image we portray to the public. It's up to us to maintin our practice and show people why they need us....why do they need an M.D. Vs independently practicing CRNA ....I have my answers....I hope everyone else does, because we need to shout it from the mountain tops these days...metaphorically speaking of course

So that's my best advice...be prepared to defend why you are needed and what you have to offer....

Honestly...if no one respects us for what we do...how much of that is our fault for not doing something to change that image? This is a grass roots effort and it starts with each one of us....I have no intention of keeping my mouth shut and just accepting peoples misconceptions of my role. I'm not Norma Rae here but don't think for a second that I don't fantasize about all physicians joining in a union and taking back our health care decision making capabilities...illegal and a pipe dream....but a girl can dream, can't she??

 

[creechy]

First time poster, was told about this site by a med student. I'm an anesthesia resident (love the field) at a decent program. I have rotated/worked at several different hospitals and know many anesthesiologists personally (family members included). I must say that I've never encountered so much pessimism regarding this field until I read a few threads on this website. Also, I've never heard of the term "MDA" used once in the OR or hospitals I've worked at. I will admit it sounds dumb. Also, nearly all of my patients know that I'm a doctor and treat me with respect (those that dont are usually the crackheads who treat everyone like a crap). Lastly, I know that these possible healthcare changes will effect us, but I venture to say with little fear that we will still have jobs and make a decent salary (i.e. not going to starve to death and can take the occasional vacation....i am able to do this on my 40k salary........ i have loans also 🙂). I'm not trying to be an ahole, just wondering why there seems to be soo much negativity on this board, has it always been like this? Sorry if i offended anybody.......

 

[Planktonmd]

I admire your enthusiasm.
So since you want to change the way this specialty is perceived could you kindly tell us what you did about the OR nurses saying that they can't do a time out until a "Doctor" is present?
Did you tell them that you also are a doctor?

That's depressing

I could care less what others think about me personally...but how the world views what Anesthesiologists do as a whole...affects me directly...and I do care about the image we portray to the public. It's up to us to maintin our practice and show people why they need us....why do they need an M.D. Vs independently practicing CRNA ....I have my answers....I hope everyone else does, because we need to shout it from the mountain tops these days...metaphorically speaking of course

So that's my best advice...be prepared to defend why you are needed and what you have to offer....

Honestly...if no one respects us for what we do...how much of that is our fault for not doing something to change that image? This is a grass roots effort and it starts with each one of us....I have no intention of keeping my mouth shut and just accepting peoples misconceptions of my role. I'm not Norma Rae here but don't think for a second that I don't fantasize about all physicians joining in a union and taking back our health care decision making capabilities...illegal and a pipe dream....but a girl can dream, can't she??

 

[Planktonmd]

If you haven't heard the term MDA yet and you haven't seen a reason for pessimism then I truly think that you must be doing your residency at the perfect place, I advise you to never leave that town.

First time poster, was told about this site by a med student. I'm an anesthesia resident (love the field) at a decent program. I have rotated/worked at several different hospitals and know many anesthesiologists personally (family members included). I must say that I've never encountered so much pessimism regarding this field until I read a few threads on this website. Also, I've never heard of the term "MDA" used once in the OR or hospitals I've worked at. I will admit it sounds dumb. Also, nearly all of my patients know that I'm a doctor and treat me with respect (those that dont are usually the crackheads who treat everyone like a crap). Lastly, I know that these possible healthcare changes will effect us, but I venture to say with little fear that we will still have jobs and make a decent salary (i.e. not going to starve to death and can take the occasional vacation....i am able to do this on my 40k salary........ i have loans also 🙂). I'm not trying to be an ahole, just wondering why there seems to be soo much negativity on this board, has it always been like this? Sorry if i offended anybody.......

 

[SleepIsGood]

Dream Lover

awesome...keep that spirit up man!

I always introduce myself as "doctor". I think individuals that choose to introduce themselves to pts are 'mike' or 'sally' are just not confident. Like you said, I feel like residents are almost scared these days to call themselves doctor because they feel as though they are perceived to be 'high and mighty'.

I heard a nurse overnight yesterday telling her other nursing buddy, "I'm saving up so next year I can start my doctorate in nursing program". I was about to vomit. Seriously these two nurses were COMPLETE idiots. She said "like" after every word practically, and had NO clue what she was talking about when she called me about one of my pts on the unit. Most of these nurses are community college grads, now after their 'doctorate'....ridiculous....

 

[DO4lifer]

Wait...does that make me DOA?

time of death...5 minutes ago.

the term doctor is long gone, when your college english professor called himself "doctor". Physician, thats OUR word.

 

[Dejavu]

Dreamlover,

I know what you mean about all of your post.

Let me respond to the part about you feeling like you insulted people by becoming a doctor. I was a CRNA for a decade or more and then went back to med school and anesth residency. Since then, one of my best friends back in the day ( a CRNA ) refuses to talk to me or answer emails or letters. He just stonewalls me.

I will not apologize to anyone for doing all the work to take the next step to improve my education and medical skills.

And the term MDA bugs the crap out of me too.

 

[sethco]

I'm not Norma Rae here but don't think for a second that I don't fantasize about all physicians joining in a union and taking back our health care decision making capabilities...illegal and a pipe dream....but a girl can dream, can't she??

So, I always wondered this.

Why can't physicians unionize? More specifically, why is it illegal? Is it an ethics issue? Is this universal for all health care professions (i.e. nursing, PT/OT, pharmacy, etc.)?

 

[jwk]

I admire your enthusiasm.
So since you want to change the way this specialty is perceived could you kindly tell us what you did about the OR nurses saying that they can't do a time out until a "Doctor" is present?
Did you tell them that you also are a doctor?

I doubt that was intended as a slam at the anesthesiologist. Timeout requirements mandate that all personnel are in the room, including the surgeon. The requirement is NOT that a doctor or physician be present. Unless of course your hospital's policy is poorly written or followed, in which case it doesn't follow JCAHO standards.

 

[DreamLover]

I admire your enthusiasm.
So since you want to change the way this specialty is perceived could you kindly tell us what you did about the OR nurses saying that they can't do a time out until a "Doctor" is present?
Did you tell them that you also are a doctor?

Don't think for a second that I let that pass....I said ,"The Doctor's right here!"

And they semi laughed and said, no no, they meant the surgeon needed to be present also (which I knew of course...but I wanted to make my point)

I don't think it was passive agressive per say, but they don't call me "Hey Anesthesia" anymore, they call me Dr, and as always I smile and say, "yes, what can I do for you?!"

 

[slunk]

Happened to me today as I was pre-oping a patient. The nurse told me I couldn't take the patient back yet because she "hadn't seen the doctor yet."
I told her "I was a doctor too, thank you very much. "
All of a sudden she acts all offended, as if I'm not supposed to standup for myself and have a backbone.

I feel like I'm in bizarro world sometimes. I work this hard thru med school, residency, and now fellowship to have nurses and everyone around me not respect me.

A trauma patient whose life me and my anesthesia colleagues played a big part in saving a few months back probably doesn't even know the role we played when she arrived without a measurable blood pressure. She doesn't know how much skill it required for us to place that a-line (with no pulse), central line, coordinate checking blood and resuscitation. You think any other type of doctor could have done that in the time required?

 

[DreamLover]

I feel like I'm in bizarro world sometimes. I work this hard thru med school, residency, and now fellowship to have nurses and everyone around me not respect me.

exactly...it's like the twilight zone sometimes where not only do people not respect me, they don't even see me

I like that....bizarro world

 

[poresofkohn]

exactly...it's like the twilight zone sometimes where not only do people not respect me, they don't even see me

I like that....bizarro world

>
I can understand your frustration. However, rest assured some of us have a great deal of respect for the specialty field of anesthesia and specifically Anesthesiologists. The ASA is not only a sponsor for the NBRC (Natl' Board for Respiratory Care) it also has a direct hand in the educational curriculum and credentialing examination content for entry level and advanced level Respiratory Therapists. The several Cardiopulmonary departments I've worked in have always has a strong working relationship with the Anesthesia department, and I've often looked to an Anesthesiologist for advice or mentoring of some sort.

http://www.asahq.org/Newsletters/2000/03_00/natborescare0300.html

 

[dienekes88]

I feel like I'm in bizarro world sometimes. I work this hard thru med school, residency, and now fellowship to have nurses and everyone around me not respect me.

There's a general decline in the respect for physicians. I get the feeling that even today's medical students have less respect than ever before for physicians.

I feel like I frequently have nursing, PA, and PT students tell me they're smarter than I am and have to learn more in their classes. I get it. I'm clearly an idiot since I have to spend 4 years in medical school and then do a residency before I can take care of patients.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

So, I always wondered this.

Why can't physicians unionize? More specifically, why is it illegal? Is it an ethics issue? Is this universal for all health care professions (i.e. nursing, PT/OT, pharmacy, etc.)?

It has to do with antitrust laws>

This article looks like a pretty good explanation of some of these issues:

http://www.facs.org/ahp/pubs/whatsurg0207.pdf

Unionization may be OK in certain circumstances, but striking generally isn't a good idea.

 

[sethco]

Thanks, arch.

 

[hoyden]

I honestly don't understand why as a field we let people refer to us as MDAs

I prefer MD, like every other MD in the entire country......

My pet peeve in the OR (okay...ONE of them) is when the circulator says let's do the timeout, and the scrub chimes in, "we can't do it until the doctor is in the room"....when I am standing right there....taking care of the patient...already under GA. I know they mean, the surgeon needs to be present as well....but they sure as hell can't do it if I'm not there either.

I prefer to be very good at what I do and fly under the radar and take care of my business...but when everyone in the hospital wears a long white coat...when the pharmacists are completing "residencies" and CRNA's are getting online PhDs.....I'm feeling like we're being attacked from all corners

Sometimes I feel like people expect me to apologize to them for being a doctor, like I did something to them personally....like I should be ashamed because as a physician, I am taking advantage of people and stealing their hard earned money and blowing it on beer and pretzels in my box seats at the Knicks games....if life was like that I wouldn't want to go to bed at 530 pm because Im so tired I don't even feel like eating

I encourage everyone to introduce themselves as doctor, be sure your patient knows who you are and that you are taking care of them...protect the practice of anesthesiology...remember...you are a physician treating the patient...not just an anesthetist performing algorithms

I'm going to bed...it's been a long day 😎

You are a CA-1, aren't you? I do not mean to offend you in any way, but all the above BS happens almost to every CA-1 and it fades away when you mature. By the end of your residency you will be Dr for everybody, because they will simply know you not only as a physician, but as a good one. You will also feel absolutely confident and won't be hurt when some of the circulators call you by name in the OR - the have seen a lot of residents passing by, you are neither the first, nor are the last.
BTW, pay attention, HOW the surgery residents of different levels are being treated - and you will see a lot - it may make you feel better 😉
Hang in there, girl - one thing won't change until the end of the tunnel - the desire to sleep at 5.30 pm

 

[DreamLover]

You are a CA-1, aren't you? I do not mean to offend you in any way, but all the above BS happens almost to every CA-1 and it fades away when you mature. By the end of your residency you will be Dr for everybody, because they will simply know you not only as a physician, but as a good one. You will also feel absolutely confident and won't be hurt when some of the circulators call you by name in the OR - the have seen a lot of residents passing by, you are neither the first, nor are the last.
BTW, pay attention, HOW the surgery residents of different levels are being treated - and you will see a lot - it may make you feel better 😉
Hang in there, girl - one thing won't change until the end of the tunnel - the desire to sleep at 5.30 pm

I'm not offended...I posted this to get lots of opinions...no worries, I know this is just an online message board. I'm a CA-2 and I understand your point...but it's not just my experiences that I am drawing from. I get these same feelings from the residents above me to some of the younger attendings not too far out of residency as well... Maybe it's that the older attendings just handle it better, or let it roll off easier, but I'm certainly not the only person with these sentiments.

I honestly don't mind when people call me by name, I've always been pretty laid back and hopefully not super pretentious...but too much informality over time leads to a graying of the lines and right to where we are now.....just my niave opinion I guess....there's a fine balance

 

[hoyden]

Do not get me wrong - I do not like "hey anesthesia" and MDA as well .
But.
The circulators in my program were mostly calling by name only if they respected and trusted you. Same was with SICU nurses.
Before that you were Dr so and so or anesthesia. Respect was gained as you go forward in training and become better.
In PP you are Dr and I haven't heard hey anesthesia for couple of months now 🙂

 

[coprolalia]

When some says, "Hey, ANESTHESIA!" just respond by saying "Yes, NURSING?" or "Yeah, O.R. TECHNOLOGY?" or "Whatcha need, SURGERY?"

They'll get the picture.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as the reason why doctors can't unionize, that has been prevented by the FTC for fear that collective bargaining among physicians would represent a violation of anti-trust laws in the U.S., as Arch points out.

There is also a good link right here that explains it, from a position statement from the FTC regarding a bill proposed in Alaska that would allow it:

The Commission's opposition to legislation intended to create an antitrust exemption for physician collective bargaining has historically focused on two fundamental points, both of which are relevant to your consideration of Senate Bill 37:

(1) such legislation would likely harm consumers - an antitrust exemption would authorize price-fixing by physicians, which could be expected to result in increased consumer costs and decreased consumer access to care; and

(2) such legislation would not likely improve the quality of care - an antitrust exemption would not likely improve patient care, and there are other, more effective means of addressing quality of care issues that do not sacrifice the benefits of a competitive marketplace.

http://www.ftc.gov/be/hilites/cruz020322.shtm

This forms the fundamental argument by the FTC which has historically prevented physicians from getting together and agreeing what should be a fair price for our services. As a result of this position, we are not allowed to know what Dr. Joe Blow down the street is charging for the same services we provide or, if we happen to know that info, using it to negotiate with insurance companies. Yet, trust me when I tell you that they know exactly how much they are paying you and everyone else.

In other words, this is yet another way that the private, for-profit insurance industry in the U.S. has us and everyone else party to this broken, self-serving system by the short hairs!

-copro

 

[scudrunner]

When some says, "Hey, ANESTHESIA!" just respond by saying "Yes, NURSING?" or "Yeah, O.R. TECHNOLOGY?" or "Whatcha need, SURGERY?"

They'll get the picture.

HA, I love it.

 

[mille125]

if you haven't heard the term mda yet and you haven't seen a reason for pessimism then i truly think that you must be doing your residency at the perfect place, i advise you to never leave that town.

lmao

 

[RabbMD]

My favorite response to "hey anesthesia", is to hold up a stick of propofol and say, "this is anesthesia, my name is Jeff." the unintelligent trolls just grumble, but the worthwhile people get it.