Why so little interest in Psych among med students?

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Teufelhunden

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I'm an MS-II and we're now doing a 5-week Psychiatry block, and am becoming quite interesting in the field. A few questions, though...

Why does it seem to be so unpopular? I don't know ANYONE interested in Pysch...why is that?! Is there some huge "downside" that I'm unaware of?

Could someone tell me what the generally-accepted PROS/CONS of this field are. Also, I've seen some combined residencies out there -- mostly FP/Psych -- what type of practice would a graduate of one of those programs go into? Is there a niche out there for someone who is double-boarded in FP/Psych?

Thanks.
 
i dont know that psychiatry is so unpopular among med students. my class has 10% of graduates going into psych this year and this was true last year as well.
its an emotionally stressful field and manged care is making inroads into psych making it frustrating at times as well because you often cant get the treatment you want for your pts
also, everything depends on the interview
very few blood tests or other measures available to cnfirm diagnosis
and pts are usually not cured
since i'm going into psych, i love it and these are the only downsides i can think of
as far as double-boarded programs go, it hink they are useful if you plan on practicing in an underserved area where you might be the only doc around and therefore it would be impt for you to know medicine or family or pediatrics as well as psychiatry
plus if you're interested in neurological diseases which have psychiatric symptoms involved there are also a few neurology/psychiatry double-board programs
hope this helps
 
Psych has gotten a bit more popular in recent years (though so has most "lifestyle" residencies). But on the whole, I agree it is still relatively unpopular.

Anaismd makes a good point...it is emotionally stressful (high suicide and divorce rate compared to other specialties). And there is really no form of diagnostic testing. And the diseases are difficult to manage.

Probably the most damning is there remains some negative public opinion of psychiatrists and psychiatry. Just look at Time magazine, Atlantic Monthly, and Newsweek over the last two years. Treatments like ECT still draws a lot of negative opinion. Go to Amazon.com and type in a search for anti-psychiatry...you'll find a fair share of books written on the subject. A lot of the lay public do not realize psychiatrists go to medical school.

These are the negatives I've come across. However, there are a lot of positives too. There has been tremendous growth in research and treatment options during the last 10 years. In my opinion, psych patients are by far the most interesting. And clearly, the trend shows increased popularity in recent years.

There are several double/triple-board options. There is FP/Psych, Med/Psych, Neuro/Psych, and Peds/Child Psych/General Adult Psych. Most people I've spoken to who are doing FP/Psych are planning on practicing in rural areas in private practice. Med/Psych is getting more popular in hospitals. Many have Med/Psych units and see dual diagnosis patients and geriatric patients. Those I've met in Neuro/Psych are mostly planning on doing one or the other...though some are going into private practice doing both.

Hope this helps...hope you pursue psych...
 
Thanks for the info - your feedback was very informative.

Weird question...just something I have always thought of...are you aware of any Psych research into issues of non-compliance? I always thought that there were psych issues with patients who are grossly non-compliant, ie obese type-II DM pt's who eat candy/drink pop all day -- you get the picture. These patients are faced with, literally,'life & death' incentives to make life-style changes, yet don't. Anyway, I always thought that there may be a psych component to these issues that needs to be addressed, but currently isn't (that I know of).

Anyway....I'm rambling....if anyone is aware of any research and/or teaching programs that are addressing issues such as these, please let me know as this would be of great interest to me. Thanks again!
 
Originally posted by Teufelhunden
Why does it seem to be so unpopular? I don't know ANYONE interested in Pysch...
I believe the compensations for psychiatrists are also some of the lowest for medical doctors. I'm sure that must weigh in to the decision making process for some people, although those are perhaps the people that least belong in psychiatry anyway.

In my class, there was a stigma associated with going into psychiatry as well. The attendings were all a little odd, and the students who had an interest in psych were sort of the oddballs in the class. My dad was a mental health professional, so I don't mean anything by these observations (although he - and we - were a little oddball too... 🙂 )
 
I think the general public overlooks it, and does not really consider it to be a real medical profession. Alot of people, including inside the medical field, just believe psychiatry is " talking ". And, that anyone could do it just because its " talking ". I think it takes a special person to do psychiatry.
 
I have mixed feelings about psych. as a career. I like relating with people intimately, am fascinated by human behavior and enjoy learning why people do the things they do. On the other hand, out of all the specialties, it's probably the least objective and most abstract, theres no hands-on or technical skills involved, and it appears to be pretty low-paying (unless you can manage to set up a $200+/session practice with self-payers.) Also it seems that theyre not viewed as "real" medical docs or maybe as not being on par. I think this may have to do with the fact that non-MD's such as PhD's, MSW's, and other licensed individuals can also bill for psychotherapy.

A few questions: is it feasible for psychs. to maintain a practice where they just see patients for 40+ hrs/week or would this be too demanding? What do most psychs do to supplement their patient care? Teaching? Research? Is consulting a possibility?
 
Originally posted by vm26
I have mixed feelings about psych. as a career. I like relating with people intimately, am fascinated by human behavior and enjoy learning why people do the things they do. On the other hand, out of all the specialties, it's probably the least objective and most abstract, theres no hands-on or technical skills involved, and it appears to be pretty low-paying (unless you can manage to set up a $200+/session practice with self-payers.) Also it seems that theyre not viewed as "real" medical docs or maybe as not being on par. I think this may have to do with the fact that non-MD's such as PhD's, MSW's, and other licensed individuals can also bill for psychotherapy.

A few questions: is it feasible for psychs. to maintain a practice where they just see patients for 40+ hrs/week or would this be too demanding? What do most psychs do to supplement their patient care? Teaching? Research? Is consulting a possibility?

I have received some discouragement from the people around me about going into psych. But I think that I will stick with it because it is about time to look beyond prestige and money. I mean, you can do that your whole life without jumping out of that circle and you just go round and round again. Get the best grades in highschool to go to best college. Then in college, you sarcrifice some social life and drinking to get into the best med school. There, you try to kiss up to attendings and residents any way you can to get the honors you need so you can enter the best and most competitive residency (which is often proportional to the earning potential; right now you might still see a couple upper-level Radiology residents who are IMG when back then it was easy to get in. But once reimbursement for other specialities go down, it is all american med grads now). Do well in residency and get into a nice fellowship (i.e. Cardiology or GI after internal medicine at MGH). And then after a nice fellowship, get into a private group practice, work hard so you can get paid 500k+ (I mean, now instead of grades and performance, you are measured to your colleagues in terms of $$$$). I personally feel that within this long chain of events, you have to break the cycle at one point or another and do what you actually want to do. I think my puck stops here as I leave med school.

As for your second question, I also have a feeling that if you really want to cater toward rich patients with deep pockets, I don't see why you cannot make 200k+ a year. Psychiatrists are low-paid because psych patients are mentally ill and if you are mentally ill, you are not working (or you are addicted to drugs or alcohol, which have the same effect). And if you are not working, you either don't have enough money to pay for psychiatric services or you don't have health insurance even! So in the end, psychiatrists might end up doing some, basically, charity work for their patients.

However, I believe that in the rich, suburban neighborhood, there should always be some well-off patients who have minor depression and other issues, and if you want to cater your practice toward them, then I don't see why your income cannot be higher than the figure that is being thrown out there.

I also think that most psychiatrists don't do that much counselling. Their roles within the system is more on the side of medication adjustment.
 
Yes, this subject sounds interesting, indeed.
 
As many of you know from my previous posts, I' m a 4th year med student going into Psychiatry... The field continues to be popular at our school as we have 7 people (out of 100) going into the field. Last year our school had 5. Usually we have 2.

Pros:

1. The Patients-it feels good helping those that often go misunderstood in our society. Psychiatrists usually see the sickest of the sick and I like that challenge. You HAVE to spend time with the patient in order to find out what's going on.

2. Variety-The day to day variety of psych is unmatched. Our patient's unique life experience require unique approaches and treatments. I like that.

3. Neuropsychiatric, Neuroimaging, and Psychopharmacological advancements-The future looks verrry bright! The "buzz" is that Psychiatry and Neurology may be meeting up again in the future...hmmm...

4. Lifestyle and Pay-I don't know what people are talking about when they say that Psych docs dont make any money. Granted, we don't pull the bling that Orthopods and ENTs do but we don't work as many hours either. I dont know of any non- academic Psychiatrist that makes under $150k and that's a starting salary fresh out of residency. I know a few old school docs that make well over $250k. On the other hand, I know PLENTY of FPs and Gen Meds that cannot break the $150K mark and on top of that, their work hours are horrendous.

5. Career flexibilty-Private practice, group practice, university/Academic setting, VA, jail/ prison psych , Forensics, Consult Psych, Child and Adolescent, Telepsychiatry, ECT, etc.

6. Low overhead, low malpractice (relatively)


Cons:

1. Respect... while I have never hear anyone badmouth Psychiatrists (like they do FPs), I still occasionally hear the Medicine and Surgery residents joking around with Psych residents by saying "at least we're real doctors". Anyone who has spent time on the Psych wards or in outpatient clinics knows that the field of Psychiatry is very real and so are its physicians. I think many docs feel that Psychiatry is full of too many "gray" areas and not enough "hard science". That's total B.S. Psych patients DO get better and the results are absolutely dramatic. They say nothing about the fact that clinically diagnosising strep throat, for example, is the epitome of a medical "gray area".

2.HMOs-Duh! Our current helathcare system rewards "doing" (read: procedures) over "thinking" (read😛sychotherapy). This is why many Psychiatrists have resorted to Med management. Also, getting reimbursements for mental health care can be frustrating.

3.Ignorance-The general public, largely, does not know the difference between a Psychiatrist and a Psychologist. This is unfortuante, as many people think that the two are interchangable. I AM NOT A PSYCHOLOGIST GENERAL PUBLIC!!!😀

Finally for those that say that Psychiatrists are "weird"...I think that, in general, doctors/medical students PERIOD are weird. The psychopatholgy in the Surgery and Medicine call rooms is amazing!!! (just joking...well maybe not) 🙂 I think that any one who is willing to study as hard as we have and basically write off our 20s and 30s has to be a bit off. Peace.
 
Nice post!

plenty of surgeons have narcissist personality disorder (or at least, trait)....
😛
 
Hi
Can anyone please tell me how to effectively answer when asked about reasons for choosing this speciality.I have always been interested in psychology & talking to people.Thats the reason I chose this branch but unfortunately I have no research experience in psychiatry which could show my keen interest(reason being no opportunity..I am an IMG) & so I feel it might not be convincing enough to them.Please guide on how to convince them that I am genuinely interested in psychiatry which is a truth.As a matter of fact I have difficulty convincing even my friends who think that after having good scores(actually average:207 & 221) how could I think of just applying in psychiatry which is so unreal(thats the term my friend used).I personally feel that its like exploring the unknown..& thats the thing which makes it fascinating.Infact if i dont get into a decent program this year I am thinking of doing a research in psychiatry somewhere before applying next year coz i cant think of doing anything else in my life.
Another things is that I am very interested in the psychotherapy trainging.Is it ok to mention this during interviews?I was concerend because most programs emphasise on psychopharmacology & they might think of this as a negative point.
The interviews I have coming up are
Albert einstein beth israel
(Mount sinai) cabrini medical center
Nassau uni medical center
Maimonides medical center
SUNY brooklyn health center
Please lemme know if you have any idea about the programs here.Any input will be reeeeeeeeeeeaally appreciated.Thanks & good luck.
God bless
Please reply at [email protected] if possible.


If anybody else can guide me on this please do so.......thanks a ton.
 
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