Will a 38 MCAT make up for a 3.4 GPA?

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GeraldMonroe said:
I finally got around to taking the MCAT on 9/11. I studied for only 3 weeks for it, so I planned to merely try to get over 30 in order to go SGU in the Carribbean. (I had an accident, that pushed my schoolwork and everything back 6 months, so I didn't think I could apply to 2008 MD schools if I wanted to)

Well, I was surprised to find that I am very good at the MCAT. I scored 38 on 3 of the AAMC practice tests, adhering to the time constraints and with no cheating or notes or anything. I felt like I had equaled that performance on the real test. Let's suppose that October 15 rolls around and I DO have a 38. Would I be able to get into a US school? Can I apply to US schools, or is October 15 past the deadline for all of them? (I looked at the deadlines for some of the schools in my state : they were in September)

Whoa. I just went here : http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/2008deadlines.htm

Maybe it's possible.
Click to expand...

I won't lie to you, but hoping for a 38 on the real thing based on the practice AAMCs is not a good plan. You need to study for this thing as though you were scoring 32s.

Also, I applied with a 3.4 / 38 this cycle. Only one interview (still waiting on the decision - I was put on hold. UF is semi-rolling). I did apply late, but not super-late. August-September range for most secondaries. My point is don't go into this thing confidently, because I did, and it kicked my ass. Now I am running around in circles begging God to have mercy on me and give me an acceptance from the one school who interviewed me.
 
Good luck, Food. If you noticed the dates, I made that post in 2007. The thread got bumped because I did get a 37 on the MCAT and an acceptance.
 
batman1983 said:
I think the MCAT can compensate for low GPA(look at my case as an example). Btw, Nar congrats on your app sucess. If you dont mind me asking, what do you think helped you out so much? Did you do research or have some kind of life hardships(economic, etc)?
Click to expand...
wow it is cool to read some of these mdapps profiles. what does it mean that ut southwestern gives an "automatic mcat invite"?
 
nars etc said:
Testingpig, while this is true, three of my five siblings have gone to a foreign medical school (SGU). I will be starting a US school in Fall (Duke), and the fourth one of us is the black sheep of the family. :laugh:

Anyway, all three of them say that it is a pain in the butt to get a residency as a foreign grad. The thing is that SGU grads arent just looked at as foreign grads. They're branded the 'foreign grads that went to the caribbean because they didn't get into a US school' which IMHO is INCREDIBLY unfair. I mean these people are still (mostly ) US citizens' their loyalties lie with the US and they had some bad luck. Some of them even applied three or four years with very good MCAT scores and deecnt gpa's but had bad luck. However, my brother for instance got a 258 on the USMLE step I (and something very similar on step 2), the licensing exams; which were both a 99 percentile. He did not get a single interview in orthopedic surgery, he applied for match last year. He did not find a single scramble spot in prelim surgery. This year he has tried agian with success in scramble into prelim surgery, but it was a pain. He was in an honors society and on the dean's list, and had impressive EC's, he had three LORS from orthopods and imo a very good PS.

My two other siblings (twin sisters) had similarly very good stats. One got a pediatric residency but the other did not get anesthesiology, EM, or general surgery which were the three she applied for in her match year. She ended up doing prelim and is now scrambling for those three again.

In short, they are always on the brink of having a stroke due to stress of not finding residencies.

Unless you are absolutely sure you want to do primary care, I would advise against looking to SGU as the better/easier route. As a last resort, sure; but honestly I do not want to restrict myself to certain specialties since I know I like academics and would love to go into surgery for instance. Now, four years from now I may change my mind but at least I'll have the *freedom* to choose whatever I want without worrying about the school I'm coming from.

To the original poster:
37 is an excellent score. I'm surprised you didn't get some more top tier interviews, or I'm not sure if you applied to them. I will admit that GPA is probably a higher factor, or more of a 'cutoff' factor. I have a 4.0 overall and science with a double major and minor; and a marginal MCAT (32). I got into Duke, Columbia, UCSD, EVMS, Loyola, Penn state, and a handful of backup schools.

And also, I'm not Native American or Samoan; I mean, I am definitely not a minority. :laugh: I'm middle eastern, but theres enough of us in medicine where its not a handicap. Besides of all the brown folk out there, arabs aren't exactly the most pitied :laugh: :laugh:
Click to expand...

Thank you. I don't know what I want to do in terms of schools any more. But I do know that wherever I end up, I would shoot for EM residency. Supposedly it is easy to get it coming out of an american m.d. school.
 
testingpig said:
wow it is cool to read some of these mdapps profiles. what does it mean that ut southwestern gives an "automatic mcat invite"?
Click to expand...

If you were referring to my app, thanks. I use it to let off steam and provide info that may be of help to others. As for UTSW, sorry for not being clearer, but I was trying to say that UTSW gave me an interview based on my new MCAT score. I applied to the school through TMDSAS back in June, however, I didnt realize that they were the only TMDSAS school that required a secondary app. Anyways, the day after I notified TMDSAS of my new MCAT score in October, I received an invite from UTSW w/o submitting the secondary. I heard that Michigan and Vanderbilt do the same thing; giving automatic invites to applicants based on a certain MCAT/GPA combination. For applicants like me that apparently dont have the "noncognitive factors" to be a physician, those types of schools are advantageous.
 
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nars etc said:
Batman, I agree... i'm sure diff schools have diff cutoffs, some gpa, some mcat. Most probably have both in some combination, the thing to know would be which one counts more if they are not weighed equally.
You asked about what helped me out, I've been thinking about that myself since I've been trying to help out other peeps that are applying this year in my school and friends' circle. I'd probably attribute it to:
-applying early (June)
-sending secondaries in really early (July/August)
-two research gigs: neurology/clinical research, neurosurgery/basic science research.
-ECs: experience as a medical assistant in a Primary care office; medical mission abroad in Sudan, im an EMT as well and worked in the ER for six months or so, volunteered 200+ hours, and started a student club on campus hooking students up with drs. to research with/shadow.
-hardship: hm... I mean yeah who hasn't but I dont know if its more than the usual. I grew up in two diff countries, my father passed away when I was a teenager. we saw some extreme poverty (lived in a homeless shelter at one point, from being in a mansion); I've also been an abused child, but I dont think I mentioned that in any of my essays. I mentioned my financial hardship, but it was hardship in the sense that it was a major rollercoaster, being filthy rich to being a pauper; not that I was born into poverty.
I think I wrote very convincing essays. I was an English and Comparative religion major. I had a minor in Econ, and did science on the side; so my 4.0 I think reflects a lot of multidisciplinary thinking. I love writing, I write novels and stories too.

Funny thing is none of my research has been published yet even though Ive been working on it for two years. I have been published in english though (literary crit articles, and an original short story).

Sorry to tell you way more than you probably wanted... but I'm not even sure if Im a unique applicant. Im not sure if this is a UNIQUE thingto them, its hard to tell at some point, since everyone in the app cycle you meet is friggin amazing.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, It was very helpful. You have had some hardships and congrats on your success.
I use to think that good GPA/MCAT and medical related volunteering were all you need to get into med school, but based upon my experiences and those of others, more and more that does not seem to be the case. A good source told me that besides grades, successful applicants need to have an angle that medical schools will like. The obvious ones are ethnicity, research, and/or wanting to work with the underserved. However, it seems like some med schools seem to really value life hardships as well. At my UCSD interview, one of my interviewers kept wanting to focus on life hardships that I dealt with, and at my interview at Baylor, the grading criteria sheet used by interviewers to evaluate applicants contained several categories relating to applicants describing and overcoming hardships that they have encountered.
I guess for me, my angle was financial hardships in college and variety of professional experiences during and after college. However, that was a controversial angle that probably held me back in terms of receiving interviews, but, at the same time helped me do so well once I was at the interview stage, as long as I didn’t have PhD interviewers.
 
Food said:
Also, I applied with a 3.4 / 38 this cycle. Only one interview (still waiting on the decision - I was put on hold. UF is semi-rolling). I did apply late, but not super-late. August-September range for most secondaries. My point is don't go into this thing confidently, because I did, and it kicked my ass. Now I am running around in circles begging God to have mercy on me and give me an acceptance from the one school who interviewed me.
Click to expand...

I think our friend Viper said it best. I wanted to post this on the "I'm done" thread, but overly sensitive moderators closed it. Boo.

You're right though. Don't be so confident as to only apply to Harvard, and be humble enough to apply to lower tier and DO schools. A happy medium will suit you best.
 
GeraldMonroe said:
I finally got around to taking the MCAT on 9/11. I studied for only 3 weeks for it, so I planned to merely try to get over 30 in order to go SGU in the Carribbean. (I had an accident, that pushed my schoolwork and everything back 6 months, so I didn't think I could apply to 2008 MD schools if I wanted to)

Well, I was surprised to find that I am very good at the MCAT. I scored 38 on 3 of the AAMC practice tests, adhering to the time constraints and with no cheating or notes or anything. I felt like I had equaled that performance on the real test. Let's suppose that October 15 rolls around and I DO have a 38. Would I be able to get into a US school? Can I apply to US schools, or is October 15 past the deadline for all of them? (I looked at the deadlines for some of the schools in my state : they were in September)

Whoa. I just went here : http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/2008deadlines.htm

Maybe it's possible.
Click to expand...

i remember getting two 40s and a 38 on those AAMC practice tests

they're noticeably easier than the real MCAT

take a princeton review practice test, that's harder than the MCAT

and then you'll get a better idea of what you'll actually get on the MCAT
 
medhearter said:
i remember getting two 40s and a 38 on those AAMC practice tests

they're noticeably easier than the real MCAT

take a princeton review practice test, that's harder than the MCAT

and then you'll get a better idea of what you'll actually get on the MCAT
Click to expand...

the OP already got a 37 and is accepted to med school.
 
Congratz!!

Out of curiosity, what ECs warranted a "6/10"?
 
OP,

Look at all the threads i've started, and you'll find all the info you need. I'm going through that **** right now, with those exact stats. I've basically outlined all the mistakes I made in many of those threads, so hopefully you can learn something from it. Also look at my MDapps, and make sure not to apply the way I did.
 
Food said:
OP,

Look at all the threads i've started, and you'll find all the info you need. I'm going through that **** right now, with those exact stats. I've basically outlined all the mistakes I made in many of those threads, so hopefully you can learn something from it. Also look at my MDapps, and make sure not to apply the way I did.
Click to expand...

People, he already got in. This thread is from last yr.
 
Wylde said:
Congratz!!

Out of curiosity, what ECs warranted a "6/10"?
Click to expand...

6 months serving in the military, training as a medic. A summer working as an EMT. Deploying to hurricane Katrina with the National Guard.

I know, I know, if that ranks a 6/10, what did applicants who get a 9/10 do?

Not that it matters...on this school's point system, the MCAT and GPA were worth 70 points between the two.

You could be a healthcare worker for 5 years, max out the EC points with 10/10, and yet be beaten out by a pencil necked kid with no ECs but a little higher GPA and MCAT.
 
GeraldMonroe said:
6 months serving in the military, training as a medic. A summer working as an EMT. Deploying to hurricane Katrina with the National Guard.

I know, I know, if that ranks a 6/10, what did applicants who get a 9/10 do?

Not that it matters...on this school's point system, the MCAT and GPA were worth 70 points between the two.

You could be a healthcare worker for 5 years, max out the EC points with 10/10, and yet be beaten out by a pencil necked kid with no ECs but a little higher GPA and MCAT.
Click to expand...

I have a feeling that they add points for research. Can you further eleborate on the school's point system? Im just interested in how schools evaluate applicants. I know that Hawaii did a point system, where they gave 1 point for every MCAT subsection below 11 and 2 points if above 11. Thus, a 3 on the MCAT was equivalent to a 33 and a 36 was equivalent to a 45 based on their metrics.
 
GeraldMonroe said:
6 months serving in the military, training as a medic. A summer working as an EMT. Deploying to hurricane Katrina with the National Guard.

I know, I know, if that ranks a 6/10, what did applicants who get a 9/10 do?

Not that it matters...on this school's point system, the MCAT and GPA were worth 70 points between the two.

You could be a healthcare worker for 5 years, max out the EC points with 10/10, and yet be beaten out by a pencil necked kid with no ECs but a little higher GPA and MCAT.
Click to expand...

Wow. Those ECs seem pretty flippin substantial to me. Maybe it had to do with the well-roundedness of the ECs? Like you did some amazing things that were army/medical related, but what about thing like research, community service, etc. Hell I don't really know, just picking at straws here really.
 
Be cautious of the impression you give. Are you going to be perceived as a slacker who obviously has the intelligence to be a superstar but needs to develop maturity? Or are you going to be perceived as someone who had some struggles, was humbled by them, and got their act together?
 
thoffen said:
Be cautious of the impression you give. Are you going to be perceived as a slacker who obviously has the intelligence to be a superstar but needs to develop maturity? Or are you going to be perceived as someone who had some struggles, was humbled by them, and got their act together?
Click to expand...

I don't know. I'll keep that advice in mind when it comes time for advising any children of mine who want to follow in my footsteps and go to medical school.
Or not, if I ever have kids, they are going to have all the advantages I didn't have, and will have near perfect GPAs and standardized test scores.
 
batman1983 said:
I have a feeling that they add points for research. Can you further eleborate on the school's point system?
Click to expand...

I know that on this school's system, the MCAT score was 1:1. Meaning, If you get a 40, you get 40 points. 30, you get 30 points.

And ECs were only worth 10 points max. Personal statement was 8, letters of recommendation were 10.

Moral of the story? It's what you'd expect : if you have a high GPA and MCAT, you get so many points that getting into med school is vastly more likely. (gasp, who would have thought?) If you have the choice, earn the grades and don't waste time on anything else.
 
GeraldMonroe said:
I know that on this school's system, the MCAT score was 1:1. Meaning, If you get a 40, you get 40 points. 30, you get 30 points.

And ECs were only worth 10 points max. Personal statement was 8, letters of recommendation were 10.

Moral of the story? It's what you'd expect : if you have a high GPA and MCAT, you get so many points that getting into med school is vastly more likely. (gasp, who would have thought?) If you have the choice, earn the grades and don't waste time on anything else.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I think your ECs are very impressive and the experience you gained from them will help you as a physician. The only reason I could see them giving you a lower EC score is based on lack of research, which in my opinion, is usually very minimal at the undergrad level for most applicants, and consists of usually doing mundane tasks like pipetting. Yet, for some reason, it seems like more and more med schools want it.

As for applicant evaluation systems, I guess each school is different. From what I recall about Hawaii's system; the max number of points you could get on the MCAT was a 6 and the min was a 3, whereas just being a hawaii resident gave you 8 points. Based on their metrics, an instate applicant only needed 12-14 points to get an invite, whereas an OOS needed 16 to get an interview, which was essentially impossible without ties to the state or pursuing a graduate degree(that was worth 4points).
 
GeraldMonroe said:
I don't know. I'll keep that advice in mind when it comes time for advising any children of mine who want to follow in my footsteps and go to medical school.
Or not, if I ever have kids, they are going to have all the advantages I didn't have, and will have near perfect GPAs and standardized test scores.
Click to expand...

LOL. I guess this was an OLD thread.
 
batman1983 said:
Arent the exams standarized anyways, such that even if the exam is easier(in terms of material), the curve is tighter?
Click to expand...

yes, so basically if you think its hard, guess what? everyone else did too. your score is curved. so in the words of jim kramer...BOOYAH!
 
Well, I ended up scoring very close to what I made on the practice tests, as I mentioned earlier in the thread.

Maybe they are an accurate measure of performance, and maybe they aren't, but they worked for me.
 
yes, if you went to a good school.
 
batman1983 said:
I have a feeling that they add points for research. Can you further eleborate on the school's point system? Im just interested in how schools evaluate applicants. I know that Hawaii did a point system, where they gave 1 point for every MCAT subsection below 11 and 2 points if above 11. Thus, a 3 on the MCAT was equivalent to a 33 and a 36 was equivalent to a 45 based on their metrics.
Click to expand...

That's not completly true. Sections on the MCAT got negative points if they were low. So 36 = 45, but anything below decreases incrementally. Same with the writing section.
Same with both the total and BCMP GPA.
The ECs counted for a MAX of 1 pt (this counts reasearch/volunteer/job!)
A Master was 1 pt and a PhD 3 pts (counting the Master).
You got an extra 1 pt for an upward trend.
and there was another discretionary 1 pt if I remember correctly.
There might have been another point for something I'm not remembering right.
In the end, as resident you need 8 pts and 16 pts as a nonresident to be interviewed. After that the points did not matter anymore in your evaluation as a candidate.
 
batman1983 said:
As for applicant evaluation systems, I guess each school is different. From what I recall about Hawaii's system; the max number of points you could get on the MCAT was a 6 and the min was a 3, whereas just being a hawaii resident gave you 8 points. Based on their metrics, an instate applicant only needed 12-14 points to get an invite, whereas an OOS needed 16 to get an interview, which was essentially impossible without ties to the state or pursuing a graduate degree(that was worth 4points).
Click to expand...

Slade said:
That's not completly true. Sections on the MCAT got negative points if they were low. So 36 = 45, but anything below decreases incrementally. Same with the writing section.
Same with both the total and BCMP GPA.
The ECs counted for a MAX of 1 pt (this counts reasearch/volunteer/job!)
A Master was 1 pt and a PhD 3 pts (counting the Master).
You got an extra 1 pt for an upward trend.
and there was another discretionary 1 pt if I remember correctly.
There might have been another point for something I'm not remembering right.
In the end, as resident you need 8 pts and 16 pts as a nonresident to be interviewed. After that the points did not matter anymore in your evaluation as a candidate.
Click to expand...

Man, I should have applied to Hawaii. I have a graduate degree and just hit the 36 cutoff. I wanted to, actually 😛. Tuition was sexy-looking IIRC.


And congrats, OP 😀
 
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