Will a good COMLEX make up for a bad USMLE or vice-versa?

[TexasTriathlete]

Or will it just look like you didn't take one of them seriously?

Anyone with any experience with this?

Not that it really matters to me, as I will be doing well on both of them, and that won't be for a couple years. Just curious.

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[group_theory]

Or will it just look like you didn't take one of them seriously?

Anyone with any experience with this?

Not that it really matters to me, as I will be doing well on both of them, and that won't be for a couple years. Just curious.

Quick answer: NO


Long answer: You only take USMLE if you are interested in allopathic residencies. If you do poorly on it, why show them that you did poorly on their test. Having a high COMLEX score might or might not impress PDs, but having a low USMLE score will certainly raise a red flag.

When it is time for application, you have the option of listing your USMLE and/or COMLEX scores. In fact, you have to pay each respective boards (NBME and NBOME) if you want them to release your board scores to ERAS ($50 per set of boards, so you if you want both usmle and comlex scores released, it's $100 as of 2007).

If you did poorly on USMLE but well on COMLEX, then just release your COMLEX score. If you did well on both, then you can release both (and pay the fees to both boards)

 

[Old_Mil]

Or will it just look like you didn't take one of them seriously?

Anyone with any experience with this?

Not that it really matters to me, as I will be doing well on both of them, and that won't be for a couple years. Just curious.

...a good COMLEX cannot make up for a bad USMLE.

 

[nlax30]

I agree, from what I've been told it'll look better if you just did well on COMLEX, than if you did well on COMLEX and not-so-well on USMLE.

That said, is it possible to take USMLE step 1 and then depending on what you received, not report? Will programs find out?

We had a little workshop the other week the above question was asked and the speaker wasn't real sure.

 

[Terpskins99]

I agree, from what I've been told it'll look better if you just did well on COMLEX, than if you did well on COMLEX and not-so-well on USMLE.

That said, is it possible to take USMLE step 1 and then depending on what you received, not report? Will programs find out?

We had a little workshop the other week the above question was asked and the speaker wasn't real sure.

Technically speaking, no. Since most programs request (read require) you to release any and all of your board scores... you're supposed to release these scores to them (programs will literally state in their interview application: have you ever taken the USMLE Step I? yes or no).

Practically speaking, there are ways around this (though ideally you'd want to do WELL on USMLE in the first place to avoid dealing with it). I've heard of people that conveniently neglect to release their USMLE score and have interviewed at allopathic sites just on the basis of their COMLEX. I attribute this mostly to the fact that some programs simply don't really give a hoot what your board score is (if they did... they wouldn't care about your comlex, they'd require the USMLE and would reject your application if you didn't take Step 1 to begin with).

 

[nlax30]

Technically speaking, no. Since most programs request (read require) you to release any and all of your board scores... you're supposed to release these scores to them (programs will literally state in their interview application: have you ever taken the USMLE Step I? yes or no).

Practically speaking, there are ways around this (though ideally you'd want to do WELL on USMLE in the first place to avoid dealing with it). I've heard of people that conveniently neglect to release their USMLE score and have interviewed at allopathic sites just on the basis of their COMLEX. I attribute this mostly to the fact that some programs simply don't really give a hoot what your board score is (if they did... they wouldn't care about your comlex, they'd require the USMLE and would reject your application if you didn't take Step 1 to begin with).

Kinda figured that is the case. I would never do this, if I'm taking the USMLE I'm gonna be damn sure I'm prepared for it. Kinda seemed similar to trying to avoid sending in a transcript from a college with bad grades when applying to med school.

 

[Jpc984]

Kinda figured that is the case. I would never do this, if I'm taking the USMLE I'm gonna be damn sure I'm prepared for it. Kinda seemed similar to trying to avoid sending in a transcript from a college with bad grades when applying to med school.

Sounds more like the SAT and the ACT for undergrad.

 

[RockfordWF]

Or will it just look like you didn't take one of them seriously?

Anyone with any experience with this?

Not that it really matters to me, as I will be doing well on both of them, and that won't be for a couple years. Just curious.

No. If you have a USMLE score on your application, the ACGME programs won't look at your COMLEX score.

The AOA programs won't look at your USMLE score in any case.

 

[AwesomO]

If you have a USMLE score they all but ignore your COMLEX.

I've heard of people that conveniently neglect to release their USMLE score and have interviewed at allopathic sites just on the basis of their COMLEX. I attribute this mostly to the fact that some programs simply don't really give a hoot what your board score is (if they did... they wouldn't care about your comlex, they'd require the USMLE and would reject your application if you didn't take Step 1 to begin with).

Don't know about that. From my interview experience most programs were shocked that I took both. Some even said I was the first applicant they've seen do it. It seems they are just use to DO applicants only taking the COMLEX. One program even broke down the conversion formula they used for COMLEX to USMLE scores because "DO students never took the USMLE."

That being the case it probably would by easy to hide a bad USMLE score, however if you are ever asked point blank "have you taken the USMLE" you are pretty much screwed.

 

[jbp100]

Don't know about that. From my interview experience most programs were shocked that I took both. Some even said I was the first applicant they've seen do it. It seems they are just use to DO applicants only taking the COMLEX. One program even broke down the conversion formula they used for COMLEX to USMLE scores because "DO students never took the USMLE."

May I ask which specialties you have interviewed with that have said that DO students never take the USMLE and were shocked that you took both?

I am trying to figure out if I need to take both or not. I want to stay in Texas and I have heard that the residency spots are very DO-friendly (I don't know if this means COMLEX friendly or not).

 

[RockfordWF]

May I ask which specialties you have interviewed with that have said that DO students never take the USMLE and were shocked that you took both?

I am trying to figure out if I need to take both or not. I want to stay in Texas and I have heard that the residency spots are very DO-friendly (I don't know if this means COMLEX friendly or not).

UT Southwestern will not interview you without the USMLE. This is likely true for the rest as well....

 

[jbp100]

UT Southwestern will not interview you without the USMLE. This is likely true for the rest as well....

It is interesting that you would say that. We had one of the chief residents @ UT-Southwestern in emergency medicine come and speak at a lunch meeting last week. He said that their program took USMLE or COMLEX.

Maybe you are referring to some of the more "competitive" residencies @ Southwestern? (I am not implying that the EM is not competitive, however, IMHO there are other programs there that are more well known).

 

[RockfordWF]

It is interesting that you would say that. We had one of the chief residents @ UT-Southwestern in emergency medicine come and speak at a lunch meeting last week. He said that their program took USMLE or COMLEX.

Maybe you are referring to some of the more "competitive" residencies @ Southwestern? (I am not implying that the EM is not competitive, however, IMHO there are other programs there that are more well known).

The residency director stated that they do "accept" COMLEX, but you will not be strongly considered unless you take the USMLE.

Decide your own fate.

 

[Lamborghini1315]

Ok it almost seems like some people consider taking USMLE's as a betrayal of the DO profession. The best way to think of differences between comlex and usmle is simply opening 1000 doors vs opening 10 doors. If you want to see more opportunities take USMLE's and then you have put yourself in a better position for the residency you desire. No one cares what your opinion is about comlex or usmle, neither do i..just do what it takes to make things easier. You will still come across people that are adamant about DO's taking USMLE's but hey let them think the way they want..will they pay off your debt? will they take your pain when you fail to match at a program coz the director considers only USMLE scores..so don't gamble! You have paid thousands of dollars to become a doctor a few more bucks and an extra week of studying, exams is not going to kill you. In my opinion, if you are fully prepared and confident to take a board examination..go ahead and take both comlex and usmle step 1...that's how simple this issue will boil down to..but the key is be a 110 percent prepared, standardized tests are part knowledge and part strategy need to have it down pact!

 

[jbp100]

The residency director stated that they do "accept" COMLEX, but you will not be strongly considered unless you take the USMLE.

Decide your own fate.

Wow, sounds like gloom and doom if you don't take the MIGHTY USMLE.

But it seems to be contradictory. Yes, we take the COMLEX *wink*. No you don't "HAVE to take the USMLE." It seems to me if they wanted you to take the USMLE, then that should be their requirement. There shouldnt be hidden expectations and unspoken rules. And why don't these programs just come out and say what they want? As a second year medical student, I am expected to make a decision about a career-altering test to take based on no knowledge whatsoever from my school about the process of getting into the residency of my choice.

I think I am a little bent out of shape about have to spend an extra $500 and an extra day out of my life to take the same test twice. 😡

 

[RockfordWF]

Wow, sounds like gloom and doom if you don't take the MIGHTY USMLE.

But it seems to be contradictory. Yes, we take the COMLEX *wink*. No you don't "HAVE to take the USMLE." It seems to me if they wanted you to take the USMLE, then that should be their requirement. There shouldnt be hidden expectations and unspoken rules. And why don't these programs just come out and say what they want? As a second year medical student, I am expected to make a decision about a career-altering test to take based on no knowledge whatsoever from my school about the process of getting into the residency of my choice.

I think I am a little bent out of shape about have to spend an extra $500 and an extra day out of my life to take the same test twice. 😡

Legally, they are required to take the COMLEX, even though they really don't.

Who cares about $500? You'll make that in a few hours on a shift as an attending.

Just take the stupid test.

 

[DrWBD]

Wow, sounds like gloom and doom if you don't take the MIGHTY USMLE.

But it seems to be contradictory. Yes, we take the COMLEX *wink*. No you don't "HAVE to take the USMLE." It seems to me if they wanted you to take the USMLE, then that should be their requirement. There shouldnt be hidden expectations and unspoken rules. And why don't these programs just come out and say what they want? As a second year medical student, I am expected to make a decision about a career-altering test to take based on no knowledge whatsoever from my school about the process of getting into the residency of my choice.

I think I am a little bent out of shape about have to spend an extra $500 and an extra day out of my life to take the same test twice. 😡

Their residency, their rules. It wasn't too long ago that DOs didn't even get considered for ACGME residencies at all. You'll see, down the road, that taking the USMLE is a small price to pay for the opportunity it can potentially afford you (if you do well, that is). 😀

 

[jbp100]

Their residency, their rules. It wasn't too long ago that DOs didn't even get considered for ACGME residencies at all. You'll see, down the road, that taking the USMLE is a small price to pay for the opportunity it can potentially afford you (if you do well, that is). 😀

I completely agree that they should run their programs however they see fit. My bigger point was that the requirements for each program be made more transparent vs. having to read between the lines.

 

[AwesomO]

May I ask which specialties you have interviewed with that have said that DO students never take the USMLE and were shocked that you took both?

I'm doing family medicine so that could have something to do with it. Most folks who know they are going FM only take COMLEX. I wasn't sure so I took both.