withdrawing from an MPH

[rbnsafsadgf]

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Hi All,

I applied and got reject for the MD programs last year (2007), so I decided to wait two years to try again and enroll in a MPH program. I planned on applying to MD schools again (in 2009) and finishing the MPH.

However, I am not liking the MPH. Does it look bad to withdraw from a MPH? I will finish the term with good grades, but I don't think I want to go back.

Thanks.

 

[silas2642]

Hi All,

I applied and got reject for the MD programs last year (2007), so I decided to wait two years to try again and enroll in a MPH program. I planned on applying to MD schools again (in 2009) and finishing the MPH.

However, I am not liking the MPH. Does it look bad to withdraw from a MPH? I will finish the term with good grades, but I don't think I want to go back.

Thanks.

Yes, it looks bad. Generally when you start something, med schools want to see you finish it-- it shows commitment and that you know that when you want to do something, you follow through with it. They may be worried that if you drop your MPH, you may enter an MD program and decide you don't like that as well and withdraw, wasting a perfectly good seat that could have gone to another qualified applicant.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Yes it looks really bad, unless you have a very compelling reason to drop.

 

[gman33]

It will look bad.
You have below average stats, so this will just be one more strike against you. Wondering why you went the MPH route?
Someone in your position would be better off in a postbacc or SMP.
The MPH will do almost nothing to help your app, but since you started it, it will hurt if you drop out.

 

[rbnsafsadgf]

Wondering why you went the MPH route?

Come on man, my stats aren't that bad! Just my GPA.

I choose the MPH because I wanted to do a MD/MPH, so I figured I might as well do something I am interested in during my 2 year gap. I have wanted to do public health longer than I have wanted to do medicine. Plus, I got funded.

Seriously, are my stats bad? I thought a 34 on the MCAT is a good few points above the matriculated average. My science GPA has an upward trend.

 

[dragonfly99]

I think you should stay in your MPH. I know it sucks, but I agree quitting will look bad. I had to do a job I didn't like before med school, because I needed the money and didn't want to look like a quitter.
It sounds like you are on scholarship? You say "got funding"? If so, just suck it up and try to finish. If you are super burned out, you could throw out a couple of med school applications this year (I know it's late...) and see if you can get in. Then you could quit your MPH, and/or finish it up during med school.

 

[Blade28]

It's your 3.36 BCPM GPA that may be hurting you - remember that the mean for matriculants now hovers around 3.65.

Applying to 12 schools is FAR too narrow, IMHO. I advise even those with a GPA and MCAT around the mean to apply to at least 15-20.

And I agree that dropping out of your MPH program looks very, VERY bad unless you have a good reason to do so.

 

[gman33]

Come on man, my stats aren't that bad! Just my GPA.

I choose the MPH because I wanted to do a MD/MPH, so I figured I might as well do something I am interested in during my 2 year gap. I have wanted to do public health longer than I have wanted to do medicine. Plus, I got funded.

Seriously, are my stats bad? I thought a 34 on the MCAT is a good few points above the matriculated average. My science GPA has an upward trend.

If I wasn't clear, I was saying that your GPA is significantly below average. The way to fix that is postbacc or SMP. The MPH is good if you are interested in it, but it will do virtually nothing to help an applicant like you get into med school.
Yes, the MCAT is good, but if you don't apply for 2 more years, it will be expired.

 

[QofQuimica]

However, I am not liking the MPH. Does it look bad to withdraw from a MPH? I will finish the term with good grades, but I don't think I want to go back.

I get asked this question all the time by grad students. If you were in the first year of a PhD program and had not yet taken your quals, that would be one thing. Even then, I would encourage anyone in that situation to try to convert their PhD track into an MS track (many schools allow this) so that they could at least leave with something to show for their time in grad school. You're too late to apply for this year anyway, so there's no point in sitting out a whole year twiddling your thumbs.

But you have, at most, 1.5 years left to go to finish your MPH. There will be no way to hide having quitted if you decide to leave; you will be required by AMCAS to report those grades. For this reason alone, no one should *ever* drop out of any MS program without extenuating circumstances (such as major health issues), IMO. Looking like you're a quitter when the going gets rough is one of the biggest red flags that you can have on your record. Consider also that there are a lot of people with grad degrees (including MPH!) on adcoms. These people are going to hone in on your grad record like a beacon; that's human nature. Finally, you will possibly need or want LORs from someone at your grad school. I guarantee you that accomplishing this will be much harder if you drop out, because it will almost certainly burn some bridges with certain people at your grad school.

Like previous posters have said, the best thing you can do at this point is to commit yourself to finishing the degree and maximize your grad GPA. (Even though a great grad GPA doesn't really make up for a lower UG GPA, a poor grad GPA can tank you.) You should also look into what kinds of electives are available to you after your first year; in many grad programs, you take a required series of coursework during the first year and then get some choice of what you take second year. I (and many other former grad students) liked my second year grad school classes much better than my first year classes for exactly this reason.

FWIW, I don't agree that your UG stats are all that bad in the sense that they won't automatically exclude you from all consideration at most med schools. However, if you only applied to a handful of schools that all have average stats far above yours, then it's not surprising you didn't do very well in the app process last year. Next year, you should apply broadly to schools with averages closer to yours, and you should consider adding osteopathic schools as well if you haven't already. I would suggest applying to twice as many (20-25) carefully considered schools the next time.

Best of luck to you. 🙂

 

[chpueblo22]

I have somewhat of a related question. I am currently enrolled in a MPH program. I had a similar situation to the previous thread poster...wanted to do an MD/MPH, took some time off before reapplying and figured I would start working on my MPH in the meantime. I am in a very good MPH program at an in-state school that I am getting quit a bit of scholarship money for. I am applying now to medical schools for admission next year (which would be half way through my MPH program) for a couple reasons: 1) it allows me another chance the next year if I am not accepted 2) my mcat scores expire after this year 3) I think I am qualified to apply now. When they ask what my plan is, I am going to be perfectly honest - I will make a judgment call when the situation arises. If I am accepted to a school I want to attend, I will talk to them about deferring admission to finish my MPH program. If this is not an option, I can start medical school and finish my credit hours for the MPH either pre- or post-residency.

I don't really consider this "dropping-out" of a MPH program but this thread made me feel like this may be more of a problem than I anticipated. Will schools look at me poorly knowing that I may defer admission right off the bat? I feel like if I am qualified now, there is no use not applying...

Any input would be helpful

 

[dragonfly99]

In regards to the post right above here...your situation is a little different. You aren't "quitting" your MPH per se. You are staying in until such time as you get a med school admission.

Not sure how this will look to adcoms, but I wouldn't worry about it too much until you get to the interview stage. With your MCAT scores "expiring" I think you have a good reason to try now. I think it's OK to be honest with the adcoms about your reasons for doing this, and explain to them that though your desire to get your MD is paramount, you'd still like to finish your MPH. The die is cast now...you can't help it if they hold it against you. Some adcom members may, but I think some won't either. I would personally look on this differently than someone who had just quit an MPH program. Just be ready to explain during your interview what you have learned from your MPH, and if you have a plan to finish it (i.e. could you transfer your MPH credits to this new medical school, and/or take online classes to finish, or maybe keep working on your MPH the summer between 1st and 2nd year of med school, or maybe finish it after 4th year of med school?). Before you go on each interview, do research on the med schools where you get interviews...check to see if they offer an MPH and if so, try to see if they accept transfer students. Then you can show the adcom that you have done your homework and have a plan. If they don't offer an MPH, it will be harder for you to explain what you plan to do, but you can always tell them you plan on finishing it during residency. Also, there are some mostly online MPH programs (U of North Caroline, for one). I guess you could say you're planning to finish it that way...but be realistic and realize you won't have time for that during years 1-3 of med school, most likely.

 

[rbnsafsadgf]

Thanks for the advice guys.

I've decided to continue in the MPH, take one UG math class (to pad the UG-GPA), and reduce my hours at work.

 

[Vihsadas]

In regards to the post right above here...your situation is a little different. You aren't "quitting" your MPH per se. You are staying in until such time as you get a med school admission.

Not sure how this will look to adcoms, but I wouldn't worry about it too much until you get to the interview stage. With your MCAT scores "expiring" I think you have a good reason to try now. I think it's OK to be honest with the adcoms about your reasons for doing this, and explain to them that though your desire to get your MD is paramount, you'd still like to finish your MPH. The die is cast now...you can't help it if they hold it against you. Some adcom members may, but I think some won't either. I would personally look on this differently than someone who had just quit an MPH program. Just be ready to explain during your interview what you have learned from your MPH, and if you have a plan to finish it (i.e. could you transfer your MPH credits to this new medical school, and/or take online classes to finish, or maybe keep working on your MPH the summer between 1st and 2nd year of med school, or maybe finish it after 4th year of med school?). Before you go on each interview, do research on the med schools where you get interviews...check to see if they offer an MPH and if so, try to see if they accept transfer students. Then you can show the adcom that you have done your homework and have a plan. If they don't offer an MPH, it will be harder for you to explain what you plan to do, but you can always tell them you plan on finishing it during residency. Also, there are some mostly online MPH programs (U of North Caroline, for one). I guess you could say you're planning to finish it that way...but be realistic and realize you won't have time for that during years 1-3 of med school, most likely.

Medical schools usually require that you finish the degree program that you are in (regardless of what degree) before matriculating. What the above poster said in their post about transferring credits, however, would be a good idea to ask about at interviews. A good way to approach this would be, "I am looking into whether I can transfer my MPH credits to the school I attend for medical school to earn a joint MD/MPH. If that's not an option, I'll ask to complete my MPH and then pursue my medical degree."

GL!

 

[chpueblo22]

thanks for the input...first interview this week so I guess I will get an idea of how that conversation will go after that...kinda nervous

 

[brentb23]

It will look bad.
You have below average stats, so this will just be one more strike against you. Wondering why you went the MPH route?
Someone in your position would be better off in a postbacc or SMP.
The MPH will do almost nothing to help your app, but since you started it, it will hurt if you drop out.

I whole heartedly disagree with that statement. Many aspiring students go into medicine so that eventually they can work in public health administration or perform population/eipdemiology research (esp. MDs that are infectious disease specialists). To have a MPH backing that coincides with those interests could potentially be very strong for adcoms. Even if it didn't coincide, it shows he is a learner. Not to mention GPA is a weakness of his which will be shown up by a good graduate GPA. I really think it can do a lot.

Would he have been better served doing a SMP? Perhaps. I did one. It's to be announced how will it will serve my otherwise academically-lacking application.

 

[rbnsafsadgf]

...Many aspiring students go into medicine so that eventually they can work in public health administration or perform population/eipdemiology research...To have a MPH backing that coincides with those interests could potentially be very strong for adcoms. Even if it didn't coincide, it shows he is a learner. Not to mention GPA is a weakness of his which will be shown up by a good graduate GPA. I really think it can do a lot.

Thanks for the encouragement! I am trying to frame my app as primary care/under-served, so the MPH, I think, will be helpful. There is more to medicine than molecular biology. I don't think that the MPH will compensate for a crap GPA, but it won't hurt my application at least (while dropping it likely would have).

 

[chpueblo22]

It will look bad.
You have below average stats, so this will just be one more strike against you. Wondering why you went the MPH route?
Someone in your position would be better off in a postbacc or SMP.
The MPH will do almost nothing to help your app, but since you started it, it will hurt if you drop out.

Also very much disagree with this statement. I agree that an MPH will not be beneficial to your application if you are doing it to improve your app rather than job experience. But if you are genuinely interested in PH then it shows that you are doing what you want to do. Having an interest in PH makes you a more unique med school applicant and provides a different perspective to your med school education. As long as you are doing it for the right reasons, then I think it can be very beneficial.

 

[rbnsafsadgf]

Two year follow-up: I stuck out the MPH and got accepted into med school (x2 even)! Thanks for the advice and encouragement!

 

[Sikara]

Thanks for the update! I think sometimes people on SDN take the gospel of "the only thing that matters is uGPA and MCAT" a little too far. Yes they are important, but why would getting an MPH, and performing well, be completely irrelevant to admission as some posters claim?

 

[Buzz Me]

Two year follow-up: I stuck out the MPH and got accepted into med school (x2 even)! Thanks for the advice and encouragement!

Congrats! Good job not quitting on the MPH. 👍

 

[sweetlife]

Wow, this thread was really helpful. I am in the middle of a non-science masters, and this really put things into perspective. Thanks guys.

 

[njbmd]

I whole heartedly disagree with that statement. Many aspiring students go into medicine so that eventually they can work in public health administration or perform population/eipdemiology research (esp. MDs that are infectious disease specialists). To have a MPH backing that coincides with those interests could potentially be very strong for adcoms. Even if it didn't coincide, it shows he is a learner. Not to mention GPA is a weakness of his which will be shown up by a good graduate GPA. I really think it can do a lot.

Would he have been better served doing a SMP? Perhaps. I did one. It's to be announced how will it will serve my otherwise academically-lacking application.

To us on the admissions committee, an MPH is another graduate degree and is weighted about as much as an extracurricular activity. It does not offset a poor undergraduate GPA. The OP would have been better served by an SMP for credential enhancement or taking post bacc coursework. Graduate degrees don't offset or "help" a poor undergraduate GPA. Dropping out of a graduate program because you "don't like it" is a huge red flag.

 

[GUH]

To us on the admissions committee, an MPH is another graduate degree and is weighted about as much as an extracurricular activity. It does not offset a poor undergraduate GPA. The OP would have been better served by an SMP for credential enhancement or taking post bacc coursework. Graduate degrees don't offset or "help" a poor undergraduate GPA. Dropping out of a graduate program because you "don't like it" is a huge red flag.

Do undergrad science courses taken while doing an MPH improve one's uGPA?