Women in medicine at a disadvantage when it comes to marriage?

[flatearth22]

Been doing a lot of reading recently...mostly nonfiction... and came across this exceprt (bottom of the post) from this book - http://www.amazon.com/What-Women-Want-What-Men-Want/dp/0195131037 - that brings up women in medicine and their perceived disadvantage when it comes to marriage. In a nutshell:

- women value status and money when looking for a life partner and want to "marry up."

- since women in medicine already have high status, they eliminate a large pool of low/mid-status men and what is left is the high status men who are already in high demand by all women.

- men, on the other hand, value looks and convenience when looking for a life partner, and don't care about status or money.

- since medical training is long and arduous, these two traits (looks and convenience) are compromised, leaving women in medicine not as attractive to men.

- high status women preferring high(er) status men coupled with the fact that medical training is not conducive to enhancing a woman's attractiveness makes finding
a suitable life partner a difficult and stressful task for women in medicine.

So should women who prioritize getting a good partner for marriage be wary of medicine and other high status careers?

And should those women who insist on becoming physicians do so as quickly as they can, avoiding gap/glide years and doing early graduation/7 year programs if possible, to mitigate the toll that a lengthy and stressful medical training will have on their future attractiveness to men?

Here's the excerpt:

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[ccfman1991]

there's a campus movement at my school called "Who Needs Feminism?", i'm sure they'd love reading this

 

[armybound]

maybe women should stop being such gold diggers then and go for guys who treat them right instead of those who have positions of power and wealth.
trolling/instigating on purpose

 

[sinombre]

This is way too oversimplified. Women who prioritize getting a good partner for marriage shouldn't grossly oversimplify men. Those of us worth marrying are looking for compatibility (i.e. intelligence and ambition), and not a trophy wife. If a guy chose a younger/less intelligent woman over you (for reasons suggested in the excerpt), would he be worth marrying anyway? Probably not.

 

[susan10]

I've never heard anything of the sort before :/

 

[TheMightySmiter]

Two things need to happen to mollify this situation: 1) women need to stop being so shallow about the status of the men they're interested in, and 2) men need to get over the fact that their future wife might make a lot more money than they do.

 

[Verum]

I disagree that women look worse because of their medical training. if they take care of themselves they should look pleasing no matter what they do.

 

[flatearth22]

there's a campus movement at my school called "Who Needs Feminism?", i'm sure they'd love reading this

AMCAS most significant experience?

Two things need to happen to mollify this situation: 1) women need to stop being so shallow about the status of the men they're interested in, and 2) men need to get over the fact that their future wife might make a lot more money than they do.

This is a lot easier said than done.

1) is like telling men they should go after kind hearted, homely women with poor waist-hip ratio and uneven facial symmetry. 2) is more dictated by women, according to the studies the book references. A woman going after a lesser-status man is the same as her going after a shorter man. As a female physician you're like a 5'10'' woman who has basically excluded her pool to 6' and taller guys who are already in demand from women of all heights increasing your competition.

It's hard to go against millions of years of evolutionary programming and change what you're attracted to.

I disagree that women look worse because of their medical training. if they take care of themselves they should look pleasing no matter what they do.

Medical education and training is pretty stress-inducing with all volume of knowledge to master, huge amounts of hours spent on the wards, and countless exams to take and pass. Women living relatively stress-free can more easily manage their diet, exercise, and take better care of their looks. I know when I was in UG my diet/exercise went to hell when midterms and finals rolled around. I can't imagine what it's like in med school where you're at that level or higher every week. I'm sure it can be done...but it will require priceless time and effort that could be spent on medicine.

 

[nysw]

Maybe the author shouldn't come to the conclusion that women just like status/prestige/want to marry 'up' from an n = 4.
So in short, the shallow women in medicine are at an disadvantage.

 

[tn4596]

Also, medical training is long and arduous (tougher time to maintain a family, relationship) and will likely take a woman into her mid 30s, when having kids is harder.

 

[kpcrew]

Maybe the author shouldn't come to the conclusion that women just like status/prestige/want to marry 'up' from an n = 4.
So in short, the shallow women in medicine are at an disadvantage.

oh please everyone is shallow

this is actually a relatively well known phenomena and it happens in other countries as well:
http://www.economist.com/node/21526329/
http://www.salon.com/2012/03/12/all_the_shengnu_ladies/

 

[MicroSteph]

This may sound like the reverse, but I think I would be turned off by someone who was in a position of equal or greater status. I imagine medicine to be a taxing and sometimes stressful job and will probably seek a partner who provides emotional stability and care, instead of someone who will be having the same problems.

 

[235788]

This may sound like the reverse, but I think I would be turned off by someone who was in a position of equal or greater status. I imagine medicine to be a taxing and sometimes stressful job and will probably seek a partner who provides emotional stability and care, instead of someone who will be having the same problems.

yeahhhhh, def the opposite.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

What the hell is a chirp?

 

[235788]

What the hell is a chirp?

I was wondering that too.


I love how the girl they used is named Zelda. I didn't know that was a real name!

 

[Narmerguy]

I used to think I just wanted a woman who would be pretty and be willing to spend more time at home to raise kids while I conquer the world--now I realize that'd be pretty miserable. I want someone who is driven, has intellectual goals and can relate to the kinds of things I struggle with/strive for.

Thankfully, my girlfriend is still hot anyway so I've got the best of both worlds 😀

As my dad always told me, somewhat more crudely, after 10-15 years you'll get tired of the physical stuff no matter how hot she is.

 

[whatbout2morrow]

This may sound like the reverse, but I think I would be turned off by someone who was in a position of equal or greater status. I imagine medicine to be a taxing and sometimes stressful job and will probably seek a partner who provides emotional stability and care, instead of someone who will be having the same problems.

This actually is the dynamic I have seen in four couples I met recently. The women are all paediatricians, in two of the couples the husbands run businesses from home, in the case of the other two couples, the men are stay at home dads.

 

[Narmerguy]

This actually is the dynamic I have seen in four couples I met recently. The women are all paediatricians, in two of the couples the husbands run businesses from home, in the case of the other two couples, the men are stay at home dads.

My orthopedic surgeon is that way. She works at a University and he works from home. Sadly, she said there still isn't as much time to do what they want with kids in the picture, and maybe she would have reconsidered orthopedics if she had known.

 

[gettheleadout]

I was wondering that too.


I love how the girl they used is named Zelda. I didn't know that was a real name!

 

[Bro Dude]

The book makes its assumptions in line with the fundamental tenets of Evolutionary Psychology. While incredibly intriguing (most interesting class I have ever taken), it is indeed overly simplified. Other superorganic factors come into play that most of these assumptions don't account for. A good read I recommend is "Not by Genes Alone" by Richerson & Boyd. I took a class with the latter; the man is a genius. His book does address the professional woman's predicament from a much more informed perspective.

 

[PreMedOrDead]

Most guys I know would love a girl in medicine.

It means she's bringing home the bacon.

 

[redpanda]

Two things need to happen to mollify this situation: 1) women need to stop being so shallow about the status of the men they're interested in, and 2) men need to get over the fact that their future wife might make a lot more money than they do.

I guess this depends on what your definition of "shallow" is, but I would suggest that wanting to marry a partner with comparable intellectual or academic ability is not a shallow desire. While the stratification of more intellectual men into high-status professions is not totally clean, it is less likely that one is able to find a man with similar or interesting (on an individual level) intellectual interests among retail clerks (for example) than among men in medicine or biomedical sciences. From my experience, it sucks when you can't talk to your partner about your work (which is very important to you) because they don't understand or choose not to want to understand.

On a personal note, I agree with point #2. I once dated a man with a complex over the fact that I'd certainly make more than him in elementary ed teaching with my profession prior to considering medicine. Then again, given that this guy also had a complex about me never wanting to change my given name in a marriage, it should've clued me into the fact that his view of gender roles is...stale.

 

[skiing]

I want someone who is driven, has intellectual goals and can relate to the kinds of things I struggle with/strive for.

I'm going to be blunt and say as a girl, this thread describes my feelings exactly. I'll be honest that if I am dating a guy who is less ambitious or accomplished as I am, I feel that I am wasting my time because I can't share my intellectual goals, struggles with him. Why should I have to support/teach/hand-hold my man intellectually, professionally, financially for the rest of his life if he can't get his own **** together? I don't believe that any of this is shallow. I simply want someone who is going to inspire and complement me. On top of that, we have to also be able to enjoy each other.

So I have, as this post stated, reduced my potential pool based on the above criteria. Add to the fact that I will be crazy busy during med school and won't have time to pursue men the way the other women mentioned in the OP will. Unlike men, I can't wait until I'm 35 to get married. I have much less free time to date, a shorter schedule to find a partner, and fewer available men. Things aren't looking pretty.

 

[Frazier]

maybe women should stop being such gold diggers then and go for guys who treat them right instead of those who have positions of power and wealth.
trolling/instigating on purpose

How can they help it? It would go against evolution/biology.

The Alpha male gets the action.

 

[Giggles88]

Wow.

Well lucky for me I don't like high-status guys. I find that the higher the status the bigger the ego. 🙁

Give me a mechanic or janitor anyday. I have no one to impress.

 

[Frazier]

I used to think I just wanted a woman who would be pretty and be willing to spend more time at home to raise kids while I conquer the world--now I realize that'd be pretty miserable. I want someone who is driven, has intellectual goals and can relate to the kinds of things I struggle with/strive for.

Thankfully, my girlfriend is still hot anyway so I've got the best of both worlds 😀

As my dad always told me, somewhat more crudely, after 10-15 years you'll get tired of the physical stuff no matter how hot she is.

He is a wise man. 👍

 

[Freesia88]

Me, I have every intention of being a cougar. Here is the plan:

1. Work my ass off to get into and complete medical school and residency etc now.
2. Get comfortable lifestyle as doctor later
3. Use greater income to repair damages done by med school, i.e eat better and work out, not cosmetic surgery.
4. Be hot and accomplished and sophisticated.
5. Attract younger guys and use their bodies shamelessly, while reserving intellectual stimulation for work.

Kiddin' 😀

I don't know. I am plenty conflicted about this myself. Que sera sera....

 

[45408]

This is way too oversimplified. Women who prioritize getting a good partner for marriage shouldn't grossly oversimplify men. Those of us worth marrying are looking for compatibility (i.e. intelligence and ambition), and not a trophy wife. If a guy chose a younger/less intelligent woman over you (for reasons suggested in the excerpt), would he be worth marrying anyway? Probably not.

🙄 The article is specifically saying that it's the women who are refusing the men, not that men are refusing more intelligent women.

And for the record, I wouldn't want to marry a physician. Surgery residency is fairly stressful, and if she were working anywhere near as much as me, I don't think we could make our marriage and family life work. Some people do it, yes, but I don't care about what some people can do. I don't think I could do it. I always wanted to have a family, and then my wife and I both came to the conclusion long ago that it would be best if one of us were home with the kids most of the time. Since we both knew I was going to be a physician (and then I decided I was going to do surgery), we were both happy with the idea that she would stay home.

While it's possible for someone to work part-time as a physician (but only after med school, residency and fellowship), it's all but impossible to take any more than a few months completely off at a time.

Most guys I know would love a girl in medicine.

It means she's bringing home the bacon.

According to the article, it's that the girls in medicine are less thrilled with that idea than the men.

Just for anecdotes' sake, I'm going to list off the female surgeons that I know who are married with children, and what their husbands do:

trauma surgeon ---> stay-at-home dad
colorectal surgeon ---> accountant
surgical oncologist ---> stay-at-home dad
plastic surgeon ---> software engineer
ENT ---> interventional radiologist
general surgeon ---> neurosurgeon

 

[45408]

I'm going to be blunt and say as a girl, this thread describes my feelings exactly. I'll be honest that if I am dating a guy who is less ambitious or accomplished as I am, I feel that I am wasting my time because I can't share my intellectual goals, struggles with him. Why should I have to support/teach/hand-hold my man intellectually, professionally, financially for the rest of his life if he can't get his own **** together? I don't believe that any of this is shallow. I simply want someone who is going to inspire and complement me. On top of that, we have to also be able to enjoy each other.

Ugh, really? So an engineer/architect/teacher, who is pretty likely to have less education and lower income than a physician has to have his hand held by you?

 

[Oxygen206]

I'm going to be blunt and say as a girl, this thread describes my feelings exactly. I'll be honest that if I am dating a guy who is less ambitious or accomplished as I am, I feel that I am wasting my time because I can't share my intellectual goals, struggles with him..

I am the exact same way. I do not, and cannot, stand to date a guy that is less intelligent than me. OMFG makes me crazy. Of equal or greater intelligence is what I specifically look for (after overall attractiveness, of course). Income or whatever doesn't matter. If he's a PhD making significantly less than a physician salary that's cool -- I don't judge based on career...I judge after getting to know the person.

 

[235788]

Most guys I know would love a girl in medicine.

It means she's bringing home the bacon.

Not always. Not all doc's make big $$

How can they help it? It would go against evolution/biology.

The Alpha male gets the action.

damn straight

🙄 The article is specifically saying that it's the women who are refusing the men, not that men are refusing more intelligent women.

And for the record, I wouldn't want to marry a physician. Surgery residency is fairly stressful, and if she were working anywhere near as much as me, I don't think we could make our marriage and family life work. Some people do it, yes, but I don't care about what some people can do. I don't think I could do it. I always wanted to have a family, and then my wife and I both came to the conclusion long ago that it would be best if one of us were home with the kids most of the time. Since we both knew I was going to be a physician (and then I decided I was going to do surgery), we were both happy with the idea that she would stay home.

While it's possible for someone to work part-time as a physician (but only after med school, residency and fellowship), it's all but impossible to take any more than a few months completely off at a time.


According to the article, it's that the girls in medicine are less thrilled with that idea than the men.

Just for anecdotes' sake, I'm going to list off the female surgeons that I know who are married with children, and what their husbands do:

trauma surgeon ---> stay-at-home dad
colorectal surgeon ---> accountant
surgical oncologist ---> stay-at-home dad
plastic surgeon ---> software engineer
ENT ---> interventional radiologist
general surgeon ---> neurosurgeon

I bet they only spent 2-6 hours together a week.

 

[Oxygen206]

The Alpha male gets the action.

YUP.

I think most women would agree with that.

 

[lobo.solo]

Me, I have every intention of being a cougar. Here is the plan:

1. Work my ass off to get into and complete medical school and residency etc now.
2. Get comfortable lifestyle as doctor later
3. Use greater income to repair damages done by med school, i.e eat better and work out, not cosmetic surgery.
4. Be hot and accomplished and sophisticated.
5. Attract younger guys and use their bodies shamelessly, while reserving intellectual stimulation for work.

Kiddin' 😀

I don't know. I am plenty conflicted about this myself. Que sera sera....

Really? because it sounds like a good plan... or you can have someone on the side while doing med school 😉

Wow.

Well lucky for me I don't like high-status guys. I find that the higher the status the bigger the ego. 🙁

Give me a mechanic or janitor anyday. I have no one to impress.

More power for you!. Just find another human being that makes you happy.

I'm going to be blunt and say as a girl, this thread describes my feelings exactly. I'll be honest that if I am dating a guy who is less ambitious or accomplished as I am, I feel that I am wasting my time because I can't share my intellectual goals, struggles with him. Why should I have to support/teach/hand-hold my man intellectually, professionally, financially for the rest of his life if he can't get his own **** together? I don't believe that any of this is shallow. I simply want someone who is going to inspire and complement me. On top of that, we have to also be able to enjoy each other.

So I have, as this post stated, reduced my potential pool based on the above criteria. Add to the fact that I will be crazy busy during med school and won't have time to pursue men the way the other women mentioned in the OP will. Unlike men, I can't wait until I'm 35 to get married. I have much less free time to date, a shorter schedule to find a partner, and fewer available men. Things aren't looking pretty.

Bolded statement doesn't make any sense. I feel sorry for this kind of mentality because there are missing the point of having a life partner. A partner is someone who can support you in all the ways possible, a person who is understanding, makes you laugh, bring your spirit up, makes feel "loved." All these and many other characteristics is what people should care about when talking about marriage and love. Status/money/power isn't important when you can deeply connect with another soul.

 

[redpanda]

Ugh, really? So an engineer/architect/teacher, who is pretty likely to have less education and lower income than a physician has to have his hand held by you?

I don't think most people here are suggesting that one must match MD to MD or MD to PhD or that all men without some form of a doctorate need handholding. However, getting into a selective profession like medicine, PhD level scholar, etc. tends to select against people who do not have their s*** together. Part of this is a matter of women playing the odds to find partners they find match their specs like certain men avoid women in medicine because they think female doctors will be terrible wives/mothers. The other part is that many women want a man who is an egalitatrian partner, not someone to take care of (after all, children are enough to take care of). A classic complaint of men (some, not all, clearly) is "women are needy. I don't like that." Guess what? Lots of women aren't into needy men either. The best advice here for all genders is to have your s*** together and make sure that shows.

 

[Lui Kang]

People are going to be mad at this, but life tends to balance out. Young men (from late teens to late20's) have kinda a hard time dating because young women are in high demand and young guys are struggling broke with no money. As time goes on and women get older, and those broke low status young males gain status and wealth, the situation starts to flip. Life is a B, like that. Just like in high school all the popular kids were cool, and the nerds were picked on. Well now the nerds are Mark Zuckerberg and the popular kids are on welfare with multiple kids.

 

[Freesia88]

Really? because it sounds like a good plan... or you can have someone on the side while doing med school 😉.

Are you volunteering? 😉

 

[lobo.solo]

I am the exact same way. I do not, and cannot, stand to date a guy that is less intelligent than me. OMFG makes me crazy. Of equal or greater intelligence is what I specifically look for (after overall attractiveness, of course). Income or whatever doesn't matter. If he's a PhD making significantly less than a physician salary that's cool -- I don't judge based on career...I judge after getting to know the person.

How can you tell if a person is less intelligent than you? I respect your preferences but I am curious as to why status is of much importance. I understand that being in a professional circle leads to people marrying people within those circles, but actively looking for people that are smarter and have this degree or the other seems counter-intuitive for the purpose of human relationships. Has any one in here read The art of Love by Eric Fromm? it's a great book btw.

 

[lobo.solo]

Are you volunteering? 😉

Talvez😛

 

[Oxygen206]

How can you tell if a person is less intelligent than you? I respect your preferences but I am curious as to why status is of much importance. I understand that being in a professional circle leads to people marrying people within those circles, but actively looking for people that are smarter and have this degree or the other seems counter-intuitive for the purpose of human relationships. Has any one in here read The art of Love by Eric Fromm? it's a great book btw.

You've never met someone who is generally just....dumb? I've met a lot of guys that are not the brightest crayons in the box. It's disappointing when you can't hold a decently intelligent conversation. I don't mean discussing theoretical physics or anything, but I think you get the idea. This is NOT based on profession -- although as someone else mentioned certain professions/degrees weed out those that don't have their shI*t together or those that are generally less intelligent.

 

[redpanda]

Bolded statement doesn't make any sense. I feel sorry for this kind of mentality because there are missing the point of having a life partner. A partner is someone who can support you in all the ways possible, a person who is understanding, makes you laugh, bring your spirit up, makes feel "loved." All these and many other characteristics is what people should care about when talking about marriage and love. Status/money/power isn't important when you can deeply connect with another soul.

The statement does make sense. Some people don't "feel loved" or "connected deeply with another soul" when they have to explain for the nth time (n>=3) in several years what it is they do in their job, despite their partner being an otherwise kind, loving, sensitive person. Intellect and one's individual and financial independence can factor into love.

 

[redpanda]

How can you tell if a person is less intelligent than you? I respect your preferences but I am curious as to why status is of much importance. I understand that being in a professional circle leads to people marrying people within those circles, but actively looking for people that are smarter and have this degree or the other seems counter-intuitive for the purpose of human relationships. Has any one in here read The art of Love by Eric Fromm? it's a great book btw.

There are plenty of ways to tell. A concrete one is the fact that I once ran a logical circle around a partner that I was having a fight with. I won the argument despite knowing that I did not have the ethical upper hand in it. I'm not saying what I did at that time was right, but it showed me that partner wasn't smart enough to win a fight in which he certainly had the opportunity to call me out. The alternative hypothesis is that he chose not to call me out and let me win. Knowing how stubborn he was, I doubt this would be true.

 

[WorldChanger36]

Been doing a lot of reading recently...mostly nonfiction... and came across this exceprt (bottom of the post) from this book - http://www.amazon.com/What-Women-Want-What-Men-Want/dp/0195131037 - that brings up women in medicine and their perceived disadvantage when it comes to marriage. In a nutshell:

- women value status and money when looking for a life partner and want to "marry up."

- since women in medicine already have high status, they eliminate a large pool of low/mid-status men and what is left is the high status men who are already in high demand by all women.

- men, on the other hand, value looks and convenience when looking for a life partner, and don't care about status or money.

- since medical training is long and arduous, these two traits (looks and convenience) are compromised, leaving women in medicine not as attractive to men.

- high status women preferring high(er) status men coupled with the fact that medical training is not conducive to enhancing a woman's attractiveness makes finding
a suitable life partner a difficult and stressful task for women in medicine.

So should women who prioritize getting a good partner for marriage be wary of medicine and other high status careers?

And should those women who insist on becoming physicians do so as quickly as they can, avoiding gap/glide years and doing early graduation/7 year programs if possible, to mitigate the toll that a lengthy and stressful medical training will have on their future attractiveness to men?

Here's the excerpt:

Flatsearth only you post this crap.... Come on bro give us a break how about some happy news?

 

[lobo.solo]

You've never met someone who is generally just....dumb? I've met a lot of guys that are not the brightest crayons in the box. It's disappointing when you can't hold a decently intelligent conversation. I don't mean discussing theoretical physics or anything, but I think you get the idea. This is NOT based on profession -- although as someone else mentioned certain professions/degrees weed out those that don't have their shI*t together or those that are generally less intelligent.

Fair enough, because looking for love based on what the other person does for a job/career is pretty narrow minded and leaves out tons of people that are otherwise smart and decent human beings. Yes, I have met dumb people and it's true that it's difficult to hold a stimulating conversation.

The statement does make sense. Some people don't "feel loved" or "connected deeply with another soul" when they have to explain for the nth time (n>=3) in several years what it is they do in their job, despite their partner being an otherwise kind, loving, sensitive person. Intellect and one's individual and financial independence can factor into love.

9th times? wow, maybe this person wasn't interested... because any average person will retain a basic concept such as what you do for a living. People do factor in intelligence and money and it's fine, the problem--I think--is when these are their main concern.

 

[Oxygen206]

There are plenty of ways to tell. A concrete one is the fact that I once ran a logical circle around a partner that I was having a fight with.

lol yeah this is a huge turn off. I generally don't pick up on it right away.. After a few weeks to months of dating (when you get past the whole fake part of the relationship and start to be real -- have some real conversations) I usually figure it out.

 

[Oxygen206]

Fair enough, because looking for love based on what the other person does for a job/career is pretty narrow minded and leaves out tons of people that are otherwise smart and decent human beings. Yes, I have met dumb people and it's true that it's difficult to hold a stimulating conversation.

For sure. I realize now how my original post could have given the impression I cared a lot about profession. I don't care as long as he can keep up or exceed me intellectually, and HE'S happy with where he's at professionally.

Actually, the smartest guy I've ever dated was kind of a hippie (no icky dreads or anything like that lol) -- but you'd never guess he was as intelligent as he was based on profession (welder). Thinking I would find a smart guy, I dated another premed once, but he was dumb as f*ck. That was only one person though, so I might find another med student/physician along the road if it works out that way.

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

Then again, given that this guy also had a complex about me never wanting to change my given name in a marriage, it should've clued me into the fact that his view of gender roles is...stale.

This would have bothered me greatly as well.

 

[redpanda]

9th times? wow, maybe this person wasn't interested... because any average person will retain a basic concept such as what you do for a living. People do factor in intelligence and money and it's fine, the problem--I think--is when these are their main concern.

1. n >=3 means I told said person more than three times.
2. I doubt that a partner who is truly uninterested sticks around in what is a long-distance relationship 8 months/yr for more than 2 years. I hold that he was not so smart.

 

[lobo.solo]

1. n >=3 means I told said person more than three times.
2. I doubt that a partner who is truly uninterested sticks around in what is a long-distance relationship 8 months/yr for more than 2 years. I hold that he was not so smart.

Ups, I misread that. But yeah maybe he wasn't so smart 🙄

 

[235788]

Flatsearth only you post this crap.... Come on bro give us a break how about some happy news?

Is this not a topic worth discussing? Would you rather read another thread about class schedule, calculating bcpm, AA, or MD vs DO?

 

[Frazier]

I'm going to be blunt and say as a girl, this thread describes my feelings exactly. I'll be honest that if I am dating a guy who is less ambitious or accomplished as I am, I feel that I am wasting my time because I can't share my intellectual goals, struggles with him. Why should I have to support/teach/hand-hold my man intellectually, professionally, financially for the rest of his life if he can't get his own **** together? I don't believe that any of this is shallow. I simply want someone who is going to inspire and complement me. On top of that, we have to also be able to enjoy each other.

I am the exact same way. I do not, and cannot, stand to date a guy that is less intelligent than me. OMFG makes me crazy. Of equal or greater intelligence is what I specifically look for (after overall attractiveness, of course). Income or whatever doesn't matter.

There you have it folks, some women just want a guy for their big..fat..juicy.... IQ.