Working engineer to doc ... am I crazy?

[sheepdog]

Hi everyone, longtime lurker, first time poster 🙂

I'm a 26 year old engineer, working in industry, and have been thinking about pursuing medicine (FYI I read related posts on this forum and panda bear's blog, I was hoping to get some feedback on my specific situation).

To give you some background, I come from what you could call a medical family (dad, uncle, and grandma are all doctors). My parents never pressured me to go into medicine although I did plan on going into it in high school. However, I also really enjoyed my math and physics classes and my hobbies included programming and building circuits and robots (yeah yeah, giant nerd, I know) so I decided to go into engineering in university. My thought process at the time was that I didn't want to do a bio degree because of the limited job opportunities, and engineering would be a good career if I decided to not go to med school (or didn't get in).

I got distracted from the whole med school thing in university. Engineering school was hard, and I mean hard. I have never been so burnt out and worn out before or since. My program didn't include bio courses, so I never completed the prereqs for med school, and doing them would have required stretching out my degree or taking courses over the summer, which I didn't quite have the motivation to do given there were another 8 months of hell around the corner ;-)

I also genuinely enjoyed engineering. I love design, making products that you can see and touch. I really enjoyed the math and physics courses (esp. quantum mechanics, that was my favourite).

After undergrad, I got a masters in engineering then headed to industry. I seriously considered doing medicine again in the 1st year of grad school, but again just couldn't commit to it.

So here I am again, 2 years out of school and again thinking about doing medicine. It's annoying, because I am doing quite well, I have challenging, interesting work, I'm well paid (not heart surgeon well paid, but still), am finally paying down loans and saving up for a house, work ~50 hrs a week so I feel like I'm working hard but also have time to relax and have hobbies, outside interests, etc.

Like I said, I'm 26 now, applications are due in October and I would have to:

- do 3-4 semester long courses to get the prereqs out of the way
- write the MCAT
- submit all the apps

(GPA is I think competitive and I did volunteer work at a hospital in high school / 1st year)

So the earliest I could start school is 28 (is it realistic to do the above in ~ 1 year?). That means finish med school at 32 and finish residency at 36.

Why am I considering medicine? It's a bit hard to explain. I keep telling myself its a bad idea but it seems to be an itch I can't make go away.

Thinking about it rationally though, here are the reasons I think I want to do it (isn't that kind of weird, you want to do something but have trouble figuring out why? Anyone else have that when they decided to go back?)

- Most important: I want to have an impact on disease. My field of eng. focuses on imaging so I think I could use that in something like radiology or pathology

- More meaningful work. That sounds really lame and its entirely not the right language, because I do think engineering is meaningful and important to society and I don't think doctoring is some sort of sainthood holy grail mecca of careers. I think what it comes down to is that when you are an engineer you work on large projects with many team members. Your contributions are important but diluted. As a doctor, you have a much more direct impact on a particular person's problems and health.

- A bit more social interaction, more walking about and not being in a cubicle

- More money. I think engineers are underpaid given the amount of schooling and difficulty of the work involved. Doctors were smart enough to constrict supply to drive up demand ;-)

- This nagging feeling that I'm selling myself short and am capable of more

Cons:

- I already like my job and have invested 6 years into my schooling
- Including tuition and lost wages, I'm looking at over half a million of opportunity cost. That is a lot of money to put on the line
- From the sounds of it, 3rd and 4th year of med school are killer. I want to spend time with my wife and my friends. You lose that time and can never get it back
- Might delay or eliminate having kids
- Losing the ability to do design and analytical work using math and physics

What do you guys think, should I do it?

I would probably aim for a specialty like radiology or pathology. While I want some patient contact I don't want a *lot* of patient contact, if you get my drift 😀

How are those residencies? I figure 3rd and 4th year med school are going to be a wash, but after that is it a lot more 50-60 hr type weeks? Do they have to do a general intern year to start off?

Also, I don't deal well with sleep deprivation.

Finally, for any engineers/physicists turned doctors in the audience, how did you deal with the switch from doing analytical/design work to bio? Do you miss it? How much of that do you find in medicine? I know my father would sometimes write his own image analysis programs as a pathologist, but I get the feeling thats very outside the norm.

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[vc7777]

Actually there is a lot of overlap in medicine and engineering and plenty of room for the engineer-turned-doctor. You are in good company and, frankly, not that unique (so don't bank on points for novelty). But the plus side of this is that it is very much doable and you won't get too many raised eyebrows in your interviews. I will try and post more later as my phone is dying. For starters, check out my profile if you need to see you are not doing the impossible.

 

[n3xa]

- A bit more social interaction, more walking about and not being in a cubicle

What do you guys think, should I do it?

I would probably aim for a specialty like radiology or pathology. While I want some patient contact I don't want a *lot* of patient contact, if you get my drift 😀

How are those residencies? I figure 3rd and 4th year med school are going to be a wash, but after that is it a lot more 50-60 hr type weeks? Do they have to do a general intern year to start off?

Also, I don't deal well with sleep deprivation.

Finally, for any engineers/physicists turned doctors in the audience, how did you deal with the switch from doing analytical/design work to bio? Do you miss it? How much of that do you find in medicine? I know my father would sometimes write his own image analysis programs as a pathologist, but I get the feeling thats very outside the norm.

😕

Well, we can't tell you what to do. And like DrMidlife always said 'round 'ere, if you can be happy doing something else, by all means do something else besides medicine.

Good luck to you.

 

[theseeker4]

So here I am again, 2 years out of school and again thinking about doing medicine. It's annoying, because I am doing quite well, I have challenging, interesting work, I'm well paid (not heart surgeon well paid, but still), am finally paying down loans and saving up for a house, work ~50 hrs a week so I feel like I'm working hard but also have time to relax and have hobbies, outside interests, etc.

You are in a good position from the sound of it. I would very seriously consider staying where you are at if you are not 100% convinced you need to pursue a MD/DO.

Like I said, I'm 26 now, applications are due in October and I would have to:

- do 3-4 semester long courses to get the prereqs out of the way
- write the MCAT
- submit all the apps

(GPA is I think competitive and I did volunteer work at a hospital in high school / 1st year)

So the earliest I could start school is 28 (is it realistic to do the above in ~ 1 year?). That means finish med school at 32 and finish residency at 36.

No, this is not really doable in that short amount of time, especially if you will be working full time. Which pre-reqs do you have to take? I assume you got the math and physics done already (might be wrong) but that would leave bio 1 and 2, chem 1 and 2, orgo 1 and 2 and possibly biochem, maybe others depending on the school. All but Biochem have labs required too. Squeezing all of those in and getting A's while working in a single year would be very difficult. You will also want to take the MCAT after all the pre-reqs are done and you have had time to study. Applications should be submitted in June/July for the best chance, not October. You would be starting med school in 2014 at the earliest ideally.

What was your GPA? Also, you will want to have recent clinical experience, not refer simply to late high school and early college for your only clinical volunteering. I would not worry about your age. Many people in this forum are applying to med school or preparing to apply and are older than you will be when you are an attending. Hell, I am one of the younger ones in here and I have two years on you.

Why am I considering medicine? It's a bit hard to explain. I keep telling myself its a bad idea but it seems to be an itch I can't make go away.

Thinking about it rationally though, here are the reasons I think I want to do it (isn't that kind of weird, you want to do something but have trouble figuring out why? Anyone else have that when they decided to go back?)

- Most important: I want to have an impact on disease. My field of eng. focuses on imaging so I think I could use that in something like radiology or pathology

- More meaningful work. That sounds really lame and its entirely not the right language, because I do think engineering is meaningful and important to society and I don't think doctoring is some sort of sainthood holy grail mecca of careers. I think what it comes down to is that when you are an engineer you work on large projects with many team members. Your contributions are important but diluted. As a doctor, you have a much more direct impact on a particular person's problems and health.

- A bit more social interaction, more walking about and not being in a cubicle

- More money. I think engineers are underpaid given the amount of schooling and difficulty of the work involved. Doctors were smart enough to constrict supply to drive up demand ;-)

- This nagging feeling that I'm selling myself short and am capable of more

Forget the money as a plus. You are established in a well-paying career. The lost money from quitting work, taking out loans for 4 years of medical school and the low pay of 3-8 years residency + fellowship means you will be around 50+ before you break even (very rough estimate, obviously, but you see the point) Look at this as sacrificing money you could be making now to do what you really want to do, not as a way to increase your salary, because even though you will earn a lot more a year as a doctor than an engineer, the payoff is so far down the road you will have a long, long, long way to go to break even.

Cons:
- I already like my job and have invested 6 years into my schooling
- Including tuition and lost wages, I'm looking at over half a million of opportunity cost. That is a lot of money to put on the line
- From the sounds of it, 3rd and 4th year of med school are killer. I want to spend time with my wife and my friends. You lose that time and can never get it back
- Might delay or eliminate having kids
- Losing the ability to do design and analytical work using math and physics

If I were in your position, having a steady, well paying job in an in-demand field doing something I enjoyed, I would probably reconsider attending medical school. I might not change my mind, but it would be a lot more to think about. Third and fourth year are bad, so are all the years of residency (minimum 3, up to 8 if you include fellowships depending on the specialty). You will be working 80 hours a week pretty much every week from third year through your residency, depending on the specialty.

What do you guys think, should I do it?

I would probably aim for a specialty like radiology or pathology. While I want some patient contact I don't want a *lot* of patient contact, if you get my drift 😀

How are those residencies? I figure 3rd and 4th year med school are going to be a wash, but after that is it a lot more 50-60 hr type weeks? Do they have to do a general intern year to start off?

Also, I don't deal well with sleep deprivation.

Finally, for any engineers/physicists turned doctors in the audience, how did you deal with the switch from doing analytical/design work to bio? Do you miss it? How much of that do you find in medicine? I know my father would sometimes write his own image analysis programs as a pathologist, but I get the feeling thats very outside the norm.

You will face a lot of sleep deprivation, not only during 3rd and 4th year but residency as well, and even as an attending depending on your specialty. Residents are NOT working 50-60 hour weeks typically, other than select specialties. I don't know about radiology and pathology specifically, but those are some of the more sought-after specialties, so there is certainly no guarantee you can match there until you know your step 1 scores, etc.

Whether you should do it is a personal choice, but you should definitely shadow doctors in various specialties before you even commit to taking the pre-reqs. Good luck.

 

[lostbunny]

I'm in a situation that is very similar while simultaneously being very different from yours- but the premiss is basically the same:

Like a previous poster said, no one can really tell you what to do, you've just hit one of those forks in the road where you have to make a decision.

The med school thing keeps popping up again and again. Maybe it might be helpful to get involved with some hospitals or clinics to just get a 'feel' for it again since you said the last experience you got was in high school/first year.

This is a big life decision and you do have to take chances in life. I'm 25 and if my schooling goes as planned, I won't be out until I'm 31... I've been thinking and thinking and pulling my hair out- but I've made a decision to pursue my not-in-school-until-i'm-27 thing.

It helps to read other's stories and situations, but in the end its your life and your decision. From this point you honestly sound like whatever decision you make is a good one (you can either continue being an engineer, or you can be a doctor). Its not like you've got to make a life or death decision, or if you choose one you'll lose everything. You sound like you've got a sound head on your shoulders, and whatever path you take you'll still end up having a good and happy life.

Best of luck to ya!

 

[sheepdog]

Hey vc7777, took a look at your profile, definitely seems like there is some overlap in our situations! What were your main reasons for skipping out on eng and transitioning to medicine?

n3xa: I realize those statements are a bit contradictory so let me try to explain: I do want more social interaction in my job, but I think I'd still be a lot more comfortable in a more behind the scenes aspect of medicine. Something like family medicine or even internal medicine would likely drive me up the wall after a while. I tend to be a bit impatient. Know thyself and all that.

 

[mauberley]

Disclaimer: I was a software engineer in the medical devices industry for eight years prior to my current identity as a first-year med student. My education was in electrical engineering.

Here is my MDApps profile if you're curious.

What do you guys think, should I do it?

Go out and shadow some docs. This is largely a thought exercise until you get some more experience with the field.

Also, I don't deal well with sleep deprivation.

I would anticipate this being a problem.

Finally, for any engineers/physicists turned doctors in the audience, how did you deal with the switch from doing analytical/design work to bio? Do you miss it? How much of that do you find in medicine? I know my father would sometimes write his own image analysis programs as a pathologist, but I get the feeling thats very outside the norm.

If you like design work, you ought to be able to find something that incorporates that. However, be aware that before you can reach that point, you'll be going through a *lot* of school, training, and otherwise laying the foundation for your career before you're that autonomous.

My rationale for pursuing this career was to be involved at the point of care rather than being steps removed, so while I get wistful about what I've left behind, I wouldn't say I miss it. Plus, 90% of my job was documentation anyway (mmm, highly-regulated industry).

 

[sheepdog]

Thanks for all the replies so far!

No, this is not really doable in that short amount of time, especially if you will be working full time. Which pre-reqs do you have to take? I assume you got the math and physics done already (might be wrong) but that would leave bio 1 and 2, chem 1 and 2, orgo 1 and 2 and possibly biochem, maybe others depending on the school.

I have math/physics and the humanities prereqs taken care of. For the university of Toronto I need 4 life sciences courses, so likely bio 1 & 2 and orgo 1 & 2. I took chem 1 (inorganic). I might be able to get away with a 4th year biophotonics course I took, would have to check that out. The other school I'm considering, McMaster, has no set prereqs. I'd pretty much have to stay in the Toronto area due to my wife's profession (finance). Not sure if this is too few to apply to. There's another two about 2 hours drive away.

What was your GPA?

Had 4.0 in grad school, probably ~ 3.5 in undergrad.

Whether you should do it is a personal choice, but you should definitely shadow doctors in various specialties before you even commit to taking the pre-reqs

Actually, I've got a question about shadowing. How do you actually do this? I'm not a shy person but I feel awkward asking, since if someone asked to follow me around at work I would feel weird about it

 

[lostbunny]

Actually, I've got a question about shadowing. How do you actually do this? I'm not a shy person but I feel awkward asking, since if someone asked to follow me around at work I would feel weird about it

Okay I'm going to come out of the closet and just explain first that I'm a pre-vet student, not a pre-med.... but I am a non trad lol.

What I did was just ask to speak with the hospital manager/whoever's in charge of hiring staff, and show up with your CV/resume. Then just explain the situation that you want to shadow docs for experience. Most people are quite happy to have you shadow, but some docs are better then others at teaching and explaining whats going on. Once you get in one place, its easier to do it more and more.

I'd love to have someone keen to follow me around at work. It shows that you're keen and eager to learn all there is to know about medicine and thats really why you're doing it right? 🙂

 

[LUCPM]

You're in good shape academically and your age shouldn't be an issue either. You also have good work experience and the only thing you need is to get some clinical experience.
For us non-trads, adcoms always want to see why we want to switch to medicine. We all have a lot to say about "Why Medicine?" but it is more convicing if you have real clinical experience you can passionately talk about. Best of luck to you.

 

[Bluesun]

Plus, 90% of my job was documentation anyway (mmm, highly-regulated industry).

I had to let out a knowing sigh/chuckle when I read this. Writing documentation all day sucks away your soul.

OP:
I'm also an engineer pursuing medicine. As others have pointed out, it is fairly unrealistic to expect to be able to finish your remaining prereqs in a year while working. You also need to allot time to study for the MCAT. As someone (vc7777) once told me, do not take the MCAT for granted because you are an engineer.

Also, as others have stated, do some social networking and shadow a few doctors before you really start committing to this.

Lastly, be very honest with yourself about why you are attracted to medicine. Make sure money is a very minimal motivator.

 

[dmf2682]

I've nothing to add to what others have said here but will simply add my voice. You're not alone here, there's plenty of us working engineers so don't feel like you're uniquely insane 🙂

 

[stefspets]

I would probably aim for a specialty like radiology or pathology. While I want some patient contact I don't want a *lot* of patient contact, if you get my drift 😀

If you're worried about time commitment per week and sleep deprivation, then choose another field.

If you want to do all of this to go into radiology or pathology, then choose another field.

I'm not saying radiology or pathology are bad fields. But why change from a challenging, financially rewarding field like engineering to go into a specialty that has a similar amount of human contact (in my opinion)? You said you like your job already. Most specialties in medicine are largely about human contact. No, they aren't all like that. But they will all require sleep deprivation and long hours during residency, you can't get around that.

You need to really think about why you want to do medicine and why you MUST do it over what you are doing now. The road is way too long, expensive, and challenging to do it just because of an inkling.

I'm being purposely negative here--you need to acknowledge the negatives and be willing to go through them because you want medicine that much. You need to be very clear about why you want to do it--reasons that medicine is the ONLY career for you, not just one career that will provide you similar benefits to other careers (like engineering) but pay you more.

You'll need to answer these questions in your application and interviews; it's good to think about this now before you set out on this road. Other people have given good advice about shadowing and volunteering as a start to help you figure this out.

My background: I am 26, I just got accepted to medical school, and I worked as an engineer for a couple of years out of undergrad. My reasons for choosing medicine aren't that different from yours, but they did become more defined as I did more shadowing and soul-searching. The main difference between us is that I really wanted patient contact and didn't find my engineering career rewarding at all for a variety of reasons (though I did enjoy school).

Good luck to you. Please view this as intended to help--if you can answer the difficult questions then you are off to a good start.

 

[thefritz]

If you're worried about time commitment per week and sleep deprivation, then choose another field.

If you want to do all of this to go into radiology or pathology, then choose another field.

I'm not saying radiology or pathology are bad fields. But why change from a challenging, financially rewarding field like engineering to go into a specialty that has a similar amount of human contact (in my opinion)? You said you like your job already. Most specialties in medicine are largely about human contact. No, they aren't all like that. But they will all require sleep deprivation and long hours during residency, you can't get around that.

You need to really think about why you want to do medicine and why you MUST do it over what you are doing now. The road is way too long, expensive, and challenging to do it just because of an inkling.

I'm being purposely negative here--you need to acknowledge the negatives and be willing to go through them because you want medicine that much. You need to be very clear about why you want to do it--reasons that medicine is the ONLY career for you, not just one career that will provide you similar benefits to other careers (like engineering) but pay you more.

You will make far more money as a radiologist or pathologist than you will as an engineer. Even factoring in all the cost for loans and lost time away from work your lifestyle should be significantly more comfortable at age 40 as an MD than what it would most likely be if you continued as an engineer.

My suggestion, given that the OP sounds almost identical to me, is go for it. Save up some money, keep working while you get your applications in order, and get into a good school. You will not be disappointed! I didn't think I would like patient interaction either, but you may be surprised, and there is certainly nothing wrong with wanting to be a radiologist or pathologist (but if you're an engineer, fields like cards and surgery might interest you more!).

 

[DrMidlife]

I'm 45, worked in software "engineering" for 15 years. One of my classmates is 46, worked in aerospace and medical engineering for 20 years. We compare notes a lot.

First thing is that the info I have to master in med school is like a dry technical specification for a project that was done 50 years ago, to which I can contribute nothing. I have no usefulness here. By contrast, in engineering, every document, discussion, or idea is a proposal to which I can contribute logistical understanding, risk management, algorithms, level of effort, etc. In my engineering experience, nothing is ever "done", and I can still get excited about future possibilities for projects I worked on 20 years ago. In engineering, if I'm looking at a system I won't be working on, I'm a reviewer, and my input is expected. If I'm looking at a tech spec, it's for a system I need to work with. In med school there's nothing to do but memorize a system that I won't be working on. Pure curiosity wears out after a couple of hours of studying, and the subsequent 6 hours of studying is brute force.

Second thing is that multiple choice exam format, which should be the easiest thing ever because it's static and predictable, is maddening. When I'm looking at 4 choices, 3 of which are theoretically possible and I can make a case for all 3 being partially correct, I have to be able to prioritize the "best" answer where "best" means "closest to the main theme" or "most likely to occur" or "was mentioned in lecture". If I spent study time actually thinking about a system, being interested in it, worrying about points of failure, maybe (gulp) actually referring to alternate info sources, discussing it with classmates, that's time that goes against exam points.

So for me, the struggle is to put aside what I know how to do, which is structured design and problem solving and fault tolerance, and focus on what I know won't be needed much in "real life", which is memorization, regurgitation, and scoring exam points. Come 3rd year, when I hit the wards and there's actual work to do, I expect to start being useful again. And I need to keep up the exam-taking "skills" I'm learning, for boards and shelf exams and such.

Best of luck to you.

 

[mauberley]

So for me, the struggle is to put aside what I know how to do, which is structured design and problem solving and fault tolerance, and focus on what I know won't be needed much in "real life", which is memorization, regurgitation, and scoring exam points. Come 3rd year, when I hit the wards and there's actual work to do, I expect to start being useful again. And I need to keep up the exam-taking "skills" I'm learning, for boards and shelf exams and such.

I can sympathize with a lot of this. My approach so far (for the just-over-a-month I've been a student) has been to get involved in extracurriculars that keep me sane and grounded (let me stay useful) and remind me what my goal here is.

 

[Bluesun]

I can sympathize with a lot of this. My approach so far (for the just-over-a-month I've been a student) has been to get involved in extracurriculars that keep me sane and grounded (let me stay useful) and remind me what my goal here is.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that is fairly concerned about this...but I'm even more glad that you guys have found ways of dealing.

 

[stefspets]

You will make far more money as a radiologist or pathologist than you will as an engineer. Even factoring in all the cost for loans and lost time away from work your lifestyle should be significantly more comfortable at age 40 as an MD than what it would most likely be if you continued as an engineer.

I know how much engineers make. I didn't say they made more, I just said engineering was financially rewarding, and it is. Yes, you can make more as a radiologist. But you won't be making anything for four years of medical school and you will make less as a resident than you will as an engineer. If he really wants medicine then the delayed financial reward and loans will be worth it. It's just something to think about, that was my point.

 

[dmf2682]

I know how much engineers make. I didn't say they made more, I just said engineering was financially rewarding, and it is. Yes, you can make more as a radiologist. But you won't be making anything for four years of medical school and you will make less as a resident than you will as an engineer. If he really wants medicine then the delayed financial reward and loans will be worth it. It's just something to think about, that was my point.

Well said

 

[sheepdog]

Hi everyone,

Thanks a lot for all the replies. It's been good to talk to someone about this and hear your feedback 🙂

About clinical volunteering ... what sorts of things did you guys do for this? I did 3 summers at a local hospital, doing both patient transport (wheel them around from room to xray, ecg, ct, mri rooms, etc.) and wards (basically handing out and collecting meals to the patients and being a gopher for the nurses and other staff). It was a post-surgery ward so patients were generally pretty good, basically recovering for a few days after a surgery.

My point being is that those experiences were really far removed from what a physician (or a nurse for that matter) does. Is there something more substantial one can do?

Worries me that I don't feel that need for direct patient interaction everyone else seems to! 🙂

For you ex-engineers, what were the main reasons you became dissatisfied enough with that career to leave?

 

[lostbunny]

My point being is that those experiences were really far removed from what a physician (or a nurse for that matter) does. Is there something more substantial one can do?

You can probably shadow a doctor at say, a walk-in or family clinic or something. That way you're essentially getting a feel for 'being a doctor'. Thats what I did for vet experience, I've been able to shadow in appointments (where its really good to see patient/doc interaction), and also watch and assist in surgery. I'm thinking that human med is a bit different and you may not get to assist in surgery... perhaps some others will chime in here, but from what I've read and heard- I think you can probably shadow doctors in on appointments, etc?

 

[ShoTyme]

You can probably shadow a doctor at say, a walk-in or family clinic or something. That way you're essentially getting a feel for 'being a doctor'. Thats what I did for vet experience, I've been able to shadow in appointments (where its really good to see patient/doc interaction), and also watch and assist in surgery. I'm thinking that human med is a bit different and you may not get to assist in surgery... perhaps some others will chime in here, but from what I've read and heard- I think you can probably shadow doctors in on appointments, etc?

They definitely will not allow a premed student to assist in surgeries. I was allowed into the operating room on several surgeries. The most work I did was to hand the anesthesiologist a med or two from a counter and help move an anesthetized patient from the operating table to a gurney. Anything more than that I'm afraid will have to wait until medical school. Dam hippa... or his it hippo... I can never remember 😛

 

[lostbunny]

They definitely will not allow a premed student to assist in surgeries. I was allowed into the operating room on several surgeries. The most work I did was to hand the anesthesiologist a med or two from a counter and help move an anesthetized patient from the operating table to a gurney. Anything more than that I'm afraid will have to wait until medical school. Dam hippa... or his it hippo... I can never remember 😛

Thats still good experience and a lot closer to opened patients then I would have thought would be allowed in human med. Very cool, I wonder if any pre meds helped with me anesthetized! I shall never know.

 

[AlphaKeto]

They definitely will not allow a premed student to assist in surgeries. I was allowed into the operating room on several surgeries. The most work I did was to hand the anesthesiologist a med or two from a counter and help move an anesthetized patient from the operating table to a gurney. Anything more than that I'm afraid will have to wait until medical school. Dam hippa... or his it hippo... I can never remember 😛

I think it depends on the staff. I know when my sister volunteered at the local hospital, they eventually had her doing things she was not technically supposed to be doing. But I agree, they will probably stop short of letting you make the incision 😛

 

[MD Odyssey]

What do you guys think, should I do it?

No one can really answer this except for you. You're a grown-up. Decide what you want to do, realize the significance of what you'll be giving up, and make your decision based upon that.

I was in a very similar position as you and even though I haven't made it into medical school yet, I don't regret choosing to walk this road. Feels like the most natural thing I've ever done.

 

[thefritz]

I know how much engineers make. I didn't say they made more, I just said engineering was financially rewarding, and it is. Yes, you can make more as a radiologist. But you won't be making anything for four years of medical school and you will make less as a resident than you will as an engineer. If he really wants medicine then the delayed financial reward and loans will be worth it. It's just something to think about, that was my point.

Engineering has decent pay for people early in their career considering it only requires a bachelor's degree. I suppose the definition of "financially rewarding" is relative. IMO, medicine is much more financially rewarding than working for an tech firm or big business. You have the opportunity to pull in the amount of money in one month as an MD (depending on your practice) as you would in an entire year as an engineer. What you said about the 4 years without money is significant. I was fortunate in this regard. Having to go from a lifestyle where you are used to not worrying about money to one where you are broke is something to consider, but well worth it IMO.

I feel that American engineers, in general, are underpaid, and it's common to see the ones who did well in college jump ship and go back to medical or business schools. It's a shame that companies lose some of their best talents so early on by hiring on these stellar graduates and throwing them in the pit to rot with mindless work and a constant paycheck without the opportunity for overtime or partnership. It's like "congratulations on finishing college. Welcome to the next 40 years of your life, by the way raises are frozen for the next five years, we cut pensions, have replaced year-end bonuses with gift cards to Red Lobster, your 401(k) doesn't vest for 5 years, and aren't you lucky we'll even match it 1%!, and oh by the way we need you to come in on Saturday -- your desk is over there, don't mind the 45 year old packing up, he just got laid off so we could bring you in at half the cost.

OP, go to med school.

 

[HatWobble]

"congratulations on finishing college. Welcome to the next 40 years of your life, by the way raises are frozen for the next five years, we cut pensions, have replaced year-end bonuses with gift cards to Red Lobster, your 401(k) doesn't vest for 5 years, and aren't you lucky we'll even match it 1%!, and oh by the way we need you to come in on Saturday -- your desk is over there, don't mind the 45 year old packing up, he just got laid off so we could bring you in at half the cost."

Well done.

 

[stefspets]

I suppose the definition of "financially rewarding" is relative.

I consider it financially rewarding, but I made as much as my dad, who had worked his way up for 30 years in his field, right out of college. Granted neither of my parents were college educated.

I wasn't trying to discourage the OP from choosing medicine. I'm not telling him to do it, either. I think when he knows what he should do then he won't need us to tell him.

It is possible to pursue medicine after another career as so many of us have done or are trying to do, and I don't think we're crazy for doing it. I guess that is a better answer to the OP then my original post.

 

[sirenomelia]

Your interest in medicine sounds casual at best. You should first spend some time volunteering in a hospital or spend some time with your dad/uncle at work to experience what their day is like so you know what you're getting into before you drop a good career and committ to immense financial and personal sacrifices

 

[yankswin2011]

To be real, your job as an engineer is susceptible to market conditions, including losing engineering jobs to India and China. Everyone here assumes you will be continuously employed as a engineer but that's not true -- engineers get laid off all the time during economic downturns. With more than 50% of U.S. patents being filed by foreign companies (yes, foreigners can own U.S. patents), unless you work for Google, Intel, Apple, and other big ones, you're pretty much screwed. There is nothing more stable than being a doctor in America. Pursue medicine and don't look back.

 

[sheepdog]

Thanks guys. I'm still doing lots of soul-searching. Picked up some pathology books from the old man in order to flip through them.

It is a touch choice ... I suppose what attracts me to medicine is a lot of the grand scheme of things stuff (i.e. helping people with illness, making a large individual impact) while I think I enjoy the day-to-day activities of my engineering job more (designing image processing algorithms, designing hardware architectures to make it all happen, coding, puttering around in the lab etc.) but am missing some of the grand-scheme-of-things stuff. However, I suppose one lives their life day to day, rather than in a grand scheme.

Medicine is an odd profession, it is so broad that given a general inclination to science, you could probably find a niche within it that would give you a satisfying career.

I've just been reading up a bit more on infectious disease, which is another specialty that interests me, and that could be quite cool. Apparently ID specialists are also involved in running labs and doing research.

Still, when I think about day-to-day of puttering around a ward, flipping through charts and writing orders for tests, etc., that seems like I would enjoy it much less than design.

A few people asked about money: Its nice to have, but honestly, by the time I'm 35 (which is when I'd be a fully licensed and bonded independent physician) I'd probably make ~90-130K as an engineer and the wife will probably be making similar, with 1 or 0 children, so thats more than comfortable enough. I don't need, or want, a ferrari and a Scarface-type mansion ;-)

There is nothing more stable than being a doctor in America.

That's awesome, too bad I'm Canadian! 😎

Actually thats another con to doing medicine - working in the socialized health care system we have over here.

 

[UpwardTrend]

First, not to flame you but worrying about time commitment, too much pt contact, etc makes people question how dedicated and qualified you are to becoming a physician. Your current career already carries a stigma of lacking personality/interpersonal skills. I'm not saying this is you, I'm just pointing out what people already expect. This non-trad forum is pretty easy going but if you posted those comments in the pre-med forum you would get zero good advice. Now, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and offer some advice:

You will never get rid of that "itch" of wanting to pursue medicine. Others may say stick with your succesful career but how succesful is a career if you'd rather be doing something else? I was in the same situation (good career/26 yo) as you 2 years ago and am now finishing my last semester of pre-reqs. My first approach was to sprint my way to medical school but I quickly realized that its more like a marathon. Be prepared to make some lifestyle changes as you're going to be poor for a while. You can also forget about your status of being a Master of engineering. You're going to be a bottom of the barrel undergrad again. Make sure you talk everything over with your wife and set realistic expectations about having kids, moving, being poor, student debt, etc. There will be times along the way where you ask yourself "wtf was I thinking"? When this happens, just picture yourself on stage wearing a white lab coat, receiving your MD/DO degree.
You would benefit from some shadowing/clinical volunteering time to make sure that you could see yourself in a doc's shoes someday. This would also begin your building of extra-curriculars that are important even for us non-trads. Its the least you could do before making this huge leap!

Now that we know you're going to become a doctor, here are a few suggestions:
You have two options for taking pre-reqs: 1.formal 2. informal post-bacc (post-Master in your case 🙂). The informal one means that you just mix and match the courses/schools as they become available. The formal post-bacc is a one year program that goes through all the pre-reqs in a row. Many of the formal post-bacc programs offer help for your mcat studying too. You must first figure out if you are willing to move and stop working for a year. If you are not able to do those things then I would suggest going the informal route and taking no more than 2 courses with labs per semester. If you can move and go without working then start researching formal post-bacc programs here on SDN. Don't brush off the pre-reqs just because you're sure they're easier than your previous engineering courses. I have met many people that were very smart but just couldn't hack organic chemistry. One more thing- you're a veteran student and I'm sure you know how to get A's in courses. Don't just take classes to get the A, make sure you're retaining the concepts. That will help your mcat score.
Good luck

 

[vc7777]

Hey vc7777, took a look at your profile, definitely seems like there is some overlap in our situations! What were your main reasons for skipping out on eng and transitioning to medicine?

Well, in short, I am too social to be an engineer. I love to collaborate. That takes time and, yeah, there is BS involved. But at the same time, I got results. I mean patents and new product ideas when I say 'results'. However, there is still a cultural bias seen in engineering illustrated by glorifying the "lone-wolf" "oh he's so smart" engineer who does things on his own. This all crystallized one day when the owner of my company (an engineer too) in exasperation plaintively asked me: "Why can't you just stay in your office like [another engineer]?" This other engineer originally had an office that opened into a common lab. And they literally (an figuratively) built a wall so he could have more privacy and not interact with others eventually.

I like to talk, and I like working in small groups. I love the challenge of a good problem and kicking around ideas. I think it is awesome to do. Larger companies I worked fore distorted in this idea of collaboration into horrible meetings where all the creativity is sucked out of the room and politics has filled the vacuum. 🙁 Building an environment where people feel comfortable throwing out crazy ideas is much more productive. However, I was only once in a company that didn't stifle my creativity or social skills.


There is another aspect of my personality/life that I think may have been hard for me to articulate before the past two years: I love teaching. Plain and simple. As an engineer I enjoyed teaching the junior engineers. I also explored becoming a high-school teacher before coming to medical school. I had an old mentor who suggested I apply for her job as a planetarium director when she retired. I seriously looked into it. THIS, I now understand, is an essential part of medical education and the medical profession. You will be teaching yourself, your peers in school, ever doctor under you, and most importantly - every single patient you will encounter. You will spend your entire time in medical school learning essentially a new language. But at the same time, you must learn to "translate" and "decipher" it in such a way that your patients will understand. As a specialist in medicine, including radiology, you will also be teaching/reminding your colleagues about salient points of a particular case.

Finally: There is a great art in medicine. It exists in engineering, but it less appreciated. To be a master clinician is something I find very appealing, and something I strive to be at some point in my career. I have a professor who nailed a diagnosis because a child's mother made an offhand comment about how the child couldn't ride a bike. You cannot fully appreciate this art until you get here, but it is simply amazing to watch.

You also need to allot time to study for the MCAT. As someone (vc7777) once told me, do not take the MCAT for granted because you are an engineer.

Yes, I still believe this to be true. Taking the physics and math for granted will end up with you being spanked. There is no time for derivations, and you just need to get to the right answer. For example, sometimes the answers differ only in orders of magnitude and sign, but the knee-jerk engineer reaction is to power through the problem.

I also think that there is a subconscious expectation of higher PS (and maybe BS) scores from engineers. While this is probably not fair, doing poorly in Physical Sciences as an engineer sort of looks doubly bad. Fair warning.

First, not to flame you but worrying about time commitment, too much pt contact, etc makes people question how dedicated and qualified you are to becoming a physician. Your current career already carries a stigma of lacking personality/interpersonal skills. I'm not saying this is you, I'm just pointing out what people already expect.

For the most part, I do agree here. The "too any patients" statement is a little unusual? Maybe Sheepdog can elaborate? 😕

At the same time, to be fair, I think the OP is just being very honest with him/herself and us. Many people enter medicine with an idealized vision of what they want to do or a specific career path in mind - and not just older applicants either. For the most part, I think people can find niches that give them the balance in their careers. The good news is you have LOTS of time in medical school to work that out. Having said that, you will definitely have lots of patient contact throughout your training, and this is unavoidable.

 

[loik22]

You will never get rid of that "itch" of wanting to pursue medicine.

Absolutely. I was accepted, yet did not matriculate. I am thinking of going for it again despite one extra red flag. It's not as if I have no any other.


For VC777: weird notion of life in a large engineering company. Yes, there's a bunch of politics and many people that are not very social, but don't think that being in a hospital setting is any different. In addition, cooperation in any company depends in part on the corporate culture. Creating a cooperative and innovative environment is an art very few companies or managers have mastered. And again, look no further than hospitals. Not everybody can do what Mayo does. Why do you think that is?

 

[vc7777]

For VC777: weird notion of life in a large engineering company. Yes, there's a bunch of politics and many people that are not very social, but don't think that being in a hospital setting is any different. In addition, cooperation in any company depends in part on the corporate culture. Creating a cooperative and innovative environment is an art very few companies or managers have mastered. And again, look no further than hospitals. Not everybody can do what Mayo does. Why do you think that is?

I was asked why I switched to medicine. And I stand by my opinion of large Engineering firms. I believe large engineering companies rarely innovate. I believe they acquire other smaller companies that innovate, and then slowly suffocate the creativity and culture that begot the innovation they sought. When I worked for a Fortune 50 company, they tried to "promote" (I use that term very loosely) innovation by making the number of patent filings a metric to track quarterly. That's just asinine. And I'll give you one guess how it turned out. But, again, all of this is just my opinion. I didn't come here to argue. I'm just telling you part of my motivation.

Yes, your point is well taken. I agree that there is malignant behavior in corporate medicine too. No, I don't expect every medical team to act as a unit. I am not naive about that. Yes, good leadership and medicine combined is hard to find, but a few places have got it down - and Mayo isn't the only place. 😉

 

[ndrwkwn]

I think this is key. It is important to consider what else you could be doing that would be equally or more fulfilling relative to medicine and engineering. With 9 years of engineering experience in the medical devices industry, I considered if I would happy as a medical physicist or in other mid-level provider role with more patient contact. I always came back to medicine. Also my volunteer, shadowing and clinical experiences really helped solidify my desire for a future in medicine.

There is another aspect of my personality/life that I think may have been hard for me to articulate before the past two years: I love teaching. Plain and simple. As an engineer I enjoyed teaching the junior engineers. I also explored becoming a high-school teacher before coming to medical school...