Workmans comp now saying 6-8 weeks between ESI's

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Doctodd

Membership Revoked
Removed
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
9,336
Reaction score
3,832
anybody have access to the super secret ODG guidelines to confirm? This is a new one imho....had a dockmaster who had a lifting injury and they are now saying he needs 6-8 weeks of pain relief to approve a 2nd ESI. They are citing "CMS 2004, Boswell 2007" as evidence....requirement is 50-70% pain relief for at least 6-8 weeks.
 
Last edited:
seems like he is citing ASIPP guidelines. In a rush, i took 15 minutes out of my morning and have this as a rough draft....

The ASIPP recommended literature cited by ODG from 2004 is outdated and flawed and should not be used for managing work related injuries on any patient. ASIPP has revised and newer guidelines if the peer reviewer wishes to cite ASIPP as reasoning for ODG guidelines. The reasoning cited for denial of this patient’s ESI is therefore incorrect. Furthermore, the peer reviewer ignored/missed the documentation from the initial history and physical, and ignored/missed the 8/10 pain scores from the procedure note prior to the ESI, which was improved on the follow up pain score as 2-3/10 post ESI. The note documents pain relief of 100% short term which falls well within the ODG guidelines. The peer reviewer should research newer literature, ASIPP IPM 2013 guidelines, as well as other high level literature such as…

Pain Physician. 2012 Jul-Aug;15(4):E363-404. The effectiveness of lumbar interlaminar epidural injections in managing chronic low back and lower extremity pain. Benyamin RM1, Manchikanti L, Parr AT, Diwan S, Singh V, Falco FJ, Datta S, Abdi S, Hirsch JA.

and……

Pain Physician. 2012 May-Jun;15(3):E199-245. Effectiveness of therapeutic lumbar transforaminal epidural steroid injections in managing lumbar spinal pain. Manchikanti L1, Buenaventura RM, Manchikanti KN, Ruan X, Gupta S, Smith HS, Christo PJ, Ward SP.

Also, ASIPP cites decreased surgical costs with the use of interventional spine procedures. Refer to the ASIPP letter dated April 2018, where Dr. Manchikanti states…..
“Further, not only clinical efficacy evidence, but also significant evidence of cost utility has been provided thus far for caudal and lumbar interlaminar epidural injections for disc herniation, discogenic pain, and spinal stenosis, and caudal epidural injections for post surgery syndrome. The cost utility analysis was performed using highly regarded surgical literature from an analysis of Spine Patient Outcomes Research Trial (SPORT) data.”

Lastly, to add to these, according to ASIPP, “the opioid epidemic has been escalating with increasing deaths despite a reduction in prescriptions. Decreasing patient access to interventional pain procedures will undoubtedly increase opioid use.”


Respectfully,
 
Last edited:
I now see the peer reviewer thought this was a therapeutic block. He should’ve considered it an initial block.
 
I was told 8 weeks relief, 80% for second ESI. They had an independent IME, MMI him inbetween that time period per the patient
 
I was told 8 weeks relief, 80% for second ESI. They had an independent IME, MMI him inbetween that time period per the patient

those are for flare ups or chronic long term treatment, or a therapeutic block. Initial injection treatment is to repeat in 1-2 weeks. Getting this denial was based on either a miscommunication or disingenuous case worker.
 
fficial Disability Guidelines (ODG), Treatment Index, 17th Edition (web), 2019, Low Back Chapter
Epidural steroid injections (ESIs), therapeutic
Recommended as a possible option for short-term treatment of radicular pain (defined as pain in dermatomal distribution with corroborative findings of radiculopathy) with use in conjunction with active rehab efforts. Not recommended for spinal stenosis or for nonspecific low back pain. See specific criteria for use below.
Criteria for the use of Epidural steroid injections:
Note: The purpose of ESI is to reduce pain and inflammation, thereby facilitating progress in more active treatment programs, the reduction of medication use and the avoidance of surgery, but this treatment alone offers no significant long-term functional benefit.
(1) Radiculopathy (due to herniated nucleus pulposus, but not spinal stenosis) must be well documented, along with objective neurological findings on physical examination. Acute radiculopathy must be corroborated by imaging studies and/or electrodiagnostic testing, unless dermatomal pain, reflex loss, and myotomal weakness abnormalities are all present. Chronic radiculopathy additionally requires significant recent symptom worsening associated with clearly documented deterioration of neurologic findings.
(2) Initially unresponsive to conservative treatment (exercises, physical methods, NSAIDs, muscle relaxants, and neuropathic drugs).
(3) Injections should be performed using fluoroscopy (live x-ray) and injection of contrast for guidance.
(4) Diagnostic Phase: At the time of initial use of an ESI (formally referred to as the "diagnostic phase" as initial injections indicate whether success will be obtained with this treatment intervention), a maximum of one to two injections should be performed. A repeat block is not recommended if there is inadequate response to the first block (< 30% is a standard placebo response). A second block is also not indicated if the first block is accurately placed unless: (a) there is a question of the pain generator; (b) there was possibility of inaccurate placement; or (c) there is evidence of multilevel pathology. In these cases, a different level or approach might be proposed. There should be an interval of at least one to two weeks between injections.
(5) No more than two nerve root levels should be injected using transforaminal blocks.
(6) No more than one interlaminar level should be injected at one session.
(7) Therapeutic phase: If after the initial block/blocks are given (see "Diagnostic Phase" above) and found to produce pain relief of at least 50-70% pain relief for at least 6-8 weeks, additional blocks may be supported. This is generally referred to as the "therapeutic phase." Indications for repeat blocks
include acute exacerbation of pain, or new onset of radicular symptoms. The general consensus recommendation is for no more than 4 blocks per region per year. (CMS, 2004) (Boswell, 2007)
(8) Repeat injections should be based on continued objective documented pain relief, decreased need for pain medications, and functional response.
(9) Current research does not support a routine use of a "series-of-three" injections in either the diagnostic or therapeutic phase. We recommend no more than 2 ESI injections for the initial phase and rarely more than 2 for therapeutic treatment.
(10) It is currently not recommended to perform epidural blocks on the same day of treatment as facet blocks or sacroiliac blocks or lumbar sympathetic blocks or trigger point injections as this may lead to improper diagnosis or unnecessary treatment.
(11) Cervical and lumbar epidural steroid injection should not be performed on the same day. (Doing both injections on the same day could result in an excessive dose of steroids, which can be dangerous, and not worth the risk for a treatment that has no long-term benefit.)
(12) Excessive sedation should be avoided.
 
that's it...thx. The error was regarding #4 and #7, but this patient was a #4
 
“<30% is a standard placebo response”

OH REALLLLY?
I thought 1/3 of people would respond with pain relief to a sham procedure or medication , indicating there could be a placebo response. I never learned that pain relief under 30% indicates a “standard placebo response.”
I propose that the author of these guidelines is a standard idiot.
 
i guess my letter helped cuz the peer reviewing physician called me twice today. Finally talked to him this AM and he said it would be 6-8 weeks before another ESI, but i explained to him this was diagnostic phase per his/their own guidelines. Told him he should look at #4 instead of #7. He then asked if there was any reduction in pain meds bla bla bla....said it should be approved but i guess he didnt want to commit yet.
 
Can you say went from two children’s ibuprofen per month to one per month?

update.....denied. Here is the peer doctor's reasoning after talking with me.

I discussed the case with the physician. The patient is in the diagnostic phase of treatment and the patient showed 100% relief with the first injection. I received additional clinical including a progress note 8-20-19 that document the patient rated the current pain of three out of 10. It was documented that the patient had short-term benefit with the other injection. While submitted documentation did not provide evidence of any 70% pain relief or the prior injection, there was no evidence the relief was for 6 to 8 weeks given the injection was received on 8-6-19 and the note was dated 9-3-19. There was no evidence of a decreased need for pain medication documented for this patient. Measured deficits were not provided with a myotomal or dermatomal distribution. Also second injection is not recommended in the diagnostic phase of treatment. As such the medical necessity of this request was not established for this patient. Based on the above documentation across the requested lumbar epidural steroid injection x1 remains noncertified.

Aaron Carter MD, specialist anesthesiology/pain management licenses in Florida Georgia North Carolina and Texas.
 
Last edited:
update....approved after writing a letter explaining his error and talking to another peer reviewer. Bummer i was hoping to charge for another visit.
 
Top