Would love some advice

[PTtoMD]

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I am looking for a little guidance and greatly appreciate any help offered. I am a 34 yer old physical therapist with a 10 month old daughter. I have been thinking about medical school for about 10 years now...a dream that keeps popping up in my head despite me telling myself it is a crazy idea. It is on my mind all of the time and when i meet a med student or see residents at the hospital where i work, i get a pit in my stomach because i want so much to be on that path. So I am finally trying to take some steps in the right direction and have made a decision to start to move forward towards this dream.

I have my BA in Speech Pathology (3.3 GPA), took 2 years of sciences at a local college (3.9 GPA) then went for my Master's degree in PT at a top school (3.7 GPA). After 5 years of practice i completed a 1 year bridge program to upgrade my master's to a clinical doctorate in PT (DPT). I have worked in a hospital as a PT for 7 1/2 years and my focus is orthopedics.

I am terrified of the MCAT and am concerned that my sciences are too old-11 years. I am missing organic chem and am registered to take this in the fall (yikes!).

I have called some of the NY schools (where i live) and they have no interest in talking to perspective applicants. They just direct you to their web site. Is it critical to re-take my pre-reqs (which would take me 3-4 years b/c of my job and home responsibilities). Also, is it feasible to take organic chem 10 years after inorganic? Can one perform well on the MCAT"s with agressive prep without recent science course work?? Also, i am nervous about trying to balance being a mother and medical school....

My tentative plan is for a year of organic chem (07-08), summer and fall (08) and spring (09) MCAT prep and a 2 part bio or physics course, then apply. In the meantime i would do some volunteering and shadowing, try to get a paper published, and develop/rekindle some relationships for LOR.


Any advice is welcome and greatly appreciated.
Thank You.

 

[Micah6:8]

My general chemistry classes were more than 10 years old when I began to prep for the MCAT. I still needed organic chemistry. I did not have any problems with orgo, since the first few chapters are usually a review of basic chem.
With a good MCAT prep course you should be fine and as long as your grades in the basic sciences were good the first time around, I would not worry about repeating them.
Good luck in your endeavors.

 

[TopDocChick]

YOU CAN DO IT!!! Make your daughter proud!

 

[MeowMix]

Every school will be different regarding prereqs and whether they expire or not; you will have to look these up school by school. Many give you 10 years only, unless you have an advanced degree in the subject.

Whether you should retake prereqs before the MCAT, or simply review the material, depends on whether you have a good head for sciences, or whether physics, for example, was always very challenging for you. I can tell you that many people really underestimate how challenging the MCAT can be; it sounds like you are taking it seriously, which is good.

I would recommend taking 2 1-semester bio courses, unless your existing knowledge is very up to date: cell/molecular bio, and genetics. These can be freshman-level, but this content is essential to understanding much of the material covered in MS1 and MS2, and it is usually not reviewed or taught properly in med school. You need to have a very good introductory-level understanding of transcription, translation etc., cellular function, second messengers and signaling, pedigrees etc.

I would personally not spend time trying to publish a research paper, unless you have something already cooking, or plan a research career. Better to focus your efforts, time and money on the most important aspects of your application. I would also get your financial house in order, and think about multiple creative options for childcare during med school. The few years' delay is actually helpful, I think, because your child will be older when you start school.

good luck

 

[DrMidlife]

Every school will be different regarding prereqs and whether they expire or not; you will have to look these up school by school. Many give you 10 years only, unless you have an advanced degree in the subject.

Many? Can you name some? My physics classes are 20 years old, and I'm not retaking, specifically because I couldn't find any schools (that I want to attend) that expire prereqs. The consensus I found is that if a candidate can succeed on the MCAT, then retaking prereqs is pointless.

 

[Noeljan]

Many? Can you name some? My physics classes are 20 years old, and I'm not retaking, specifically because I couldn't find any schools (that I want to attend) that expire prereqs. The consensus I found is that if a candidate can succeed on the MCAT, then retaking prereqs is pointless.

You probably will have to retake. I have heard 7-10 years. Call the schools up and ask to verify

 

[MeowMix]

Many? Can you name some?

Here is one example: I had all the standard prereqs (chem, phys, bio, English, genetics, biochem, etc.) and was interviewing at Nebraska with a 39 MCAT (14 on BS) and a PhD in chemistry on my resume. They wanted me to take another bio course (AFTER interviewing, before matriculating), and would not accept my 20-year-old microbiology course as a substitute. They were absolutely inflexible; they did not tell me about this until the day of the interview, which meant that I wasted time and money on a trip to Omaha. (They did let me get by with 20-year-old chem/phys because that's what my PhD was in. My other bio courses were within the past 2 years.)

 

[Lshapley]

Here is one example: I had all the standard prereqs (chem, phys, bio, English, genetics, biochem, etc.) and was interviewing at Nebraska with a 39 MCAT (14 on BS) and a PhD in chemistry on my resume. They wanted me to take another bio course (AFTER interviewing, before matriculating), and would not accept my 20-year-old microbiology course as a substitute. They were absolutely inflexible; they did not tell me about this until the day of the interview, which meant that I wasted time and money on a trip to Omaha. (They did let me get by with 20-year-old chem/phys because that's what my PhD was in. My other bio courses were within the past 2 years.)

Well, I am applying to east coast schools and some chicago schools. None of the schools I called cared that my grades were over 12 years old. They were fine (at least on the phone and via email) with the old pre-reqs as long as I was doing current work in advanced science classes (I am enrolled in a postbac). Nebraska is the first specific school that I have heard about that considers pre-reqs to expire. That is really awful about Nebraska, especially the part about them waiting until the interview.

 

[jfitzpatri8]

At the risk of sounding like a troll... Wait until your little baby is grown to follow your dreams. She should be your priority. She did not decide to be born to a mom who would not be satisfied with what she adds to her mommy's life. You decided to have her. YOU should be raising her, not dropping her off in day-orphanage to be raised by someone else, pawning her off on family so you can get in more study time.

And, we have children so we can be proud of them, not so they can be proud of us!

I am waiting to have kids. My heart and my body hurt everyday for the desire to be pregnant, hold my baby, look into his eyes. Share his every moment with my husband when he comes home from work. All of this must wait until the DVM diploma has ink and is dry. You no longer have the option to wait to have kids... you made a choice.

The way we know we are doing the right thing in life is because it is difficult. After your daughter is up and out, there may still be time for you to pursue your MD. A woman in the class above me is in her 60's!

I beg you, on behalf of your daughter, re-think your timing!

J

 

[DrMidlife]

Any advice is welcome and greatly appreciated.

Alrighty, leaving prereq expiration out of it...

1. Med student moms: there are dozens on this forum (the nontrad forum) and some elsewhere. You are totally not alone.

2. I suggest that you pick up Iserson's guide to getting into med school, and an MSAR. These are required reading, as far as I'm concerned. What any individual tells you, whether at school, at a hospital or on SDN, definitely including me, should be taken with a grain of salt and confirmed by an independent source. And then you really have to decide for yourself, anyway.

3. The MCAT starts being a real thing, instead of a monster, after you've taken a full length practice exam. You can do this after you start prepping, or you can do it now. www.e-mcat.com.

4. Studying for the MCAT is totally different than studying for schoolwork. Schoolwork is necessary but not sufficient. I know that there are people who do no separate preparation for the MCAT than taking the prereqs, but I don't understand this. The prep courses offer plenty of review if you haven't seen the subject for a while, so I would consider it foolish to retake a prereq simply for the purpose of MCAT prep. See the MCAT forum for excruciating detail.

5. Keep your GPA high. If your homelife or job are going to interfere with coursework, delay the coursework. Retakes count as new coursework to AMCAS. Your undergrad GPA, which includes EVERYTHING, is going to get much more attention than graduate work.

6. Is it possible for you to get some loans and do school/MCAT full time, so that you can get it all done in a year? It sounds like you're saying you have to go part time, AND you don't want to spread it over 3-4 years, AND you want to do fairly traditional premed work (volunteering, publishing etc.). In your shoes I'd try to fund 9 months, not work, plus get extra support at home, get ochem done, get MCAT prep done, and also take some upper div science (neurobio, microbio). Boom, you take the MCAT, collect LORs and apply. And then go back to work and wait. Compared with the burden of med school, a 9 month whizbang is not much to fret over.

7. Public state schools might offer more pre-admission counseling. Try the SUNYs. Also, no premed advisor or adcom that I've stalked (dozens and dozens) can really say what's going to happen to you during admissions if you're over 25. It's a beauty contest.

8. Taking organic chem 10 years after gen chem is definitely achievable if you have the time to study. The first chapter in any ochem text is going to review what you need (remember Lewis structures?). Note that labs are required by most schools.

9. You have plenty of healthcare experience, so focus volunteering elsewhere. Like coaching Special Olympics, or doing wildlife conservation. I think that this will balance you out quite nicely. Start now (NOW!) and keep going. Show years of involvement.

10. Shadowing isn't organized. Younger applicants mention it on their apps as if it's an extracurricular, but it's not very interesting if you work as a PT. I'd say you can just take advantage of the docs you work with at your hospital, and try to get a few to spend time with you, maybe let you round, maybe get into the OR. Given that you know what you're getting into (oh, I hope you know what you're getting into), you really just need the candid conversations where you ask a doc what they wish they would have done instead.

11. Lastly, I think the most important thing is going to be sustaining your relationships and your homelife, because there's a kid involved. If your family isn't supportive, or if you are delusional about the med school time commitment, it's going to really suck. Take your time. 34 isn't old.

Best of luck to you, and please keep us posted.

 

[TopDocChick]

At the risk of sounding like a troll... Wait until your little baby is grown to follow your dreams. She should be your priority. She did not decide to be born to a mom who would not be satisfied with what she adds to her mommy's life. You decided to have her. YOU should be raising her, not dropping her off in day-orphanage to be raised by someone else, pawning her off on family so you can get in more study time.

And, we have children so we can be proud of them, not so they can be proud of us!

I am waiting to have kids. My heart and my body hurt everyday for the desire to be pregnant, hold my baby, look into his eyes. Share his every moment with my husband when he comes home from work. All of this must wait until the DVM diploma has ink and is dry. You no longer have the option to wait to have kids... you made a choice.

The way we know we are doing the right thing in life is because it is difficult. After your daughter is up and out, there may still be time for you to pursue your MD. A woman in the class above me is in her 60's!

I beg you, on behalf of your daughter, re-think your timing!

J

I think it is SO FUNNY when women who have no kids have an opinion about what moms should be like. You live your life and let her live hers. You raise your kids anyway you want to. I assume you aren't going to work when you have children, right? I mean, you can't leave them with a family member - that would be horrid! Your child should ONLY be exposed to YOU YOU YOU! (Seems like a terrible self esteem problem). So what are you going to do with that DVM diploma? Just hang it up? Maybe in the nursery as a sign of your sacrifice for your precious bundle. When you do have children you will think back about this post I am sending you and realize that it is from a good place.

 

[Nasrudin]

I think it is SO FUNNY when women who have no kids have an opinion about what moms should be like. You live your life and let her live hers. You raise your kids anyway you want to. I assume you aren't going to work when you have children, right? I mean, you can't leave them with a family member - that would be horrid! Your child should ONLY be exposed to YOU YOU YOU! (Seems like a terrible self esteem problem). So what are you going to do with that DVM diploma? Just hang it up? Maybe in the nursery as a sign of your sacrifice for your precious bundle. When you do have children you will think back about this post I am sending you and realize that it is from a good place.

I totally agree with what your saying. But we all have mothers. I was raised by a fulltime working mom who went to school at night. She did a great job. And set an example that you can always go back to improve your education. So I think we could articulate this point of view from different perspectives.

 

[PTtoMD]

Thank You so much to everyone who offered helpful advice. I gained some valuable information from your reply's. This is a great support network. I do have to say that the harsh tone of this one post was not appreciated. Do you really think you are enlightening me. Obviously this is a difficult choice and one I have given tremendous thought to and felt tremendous guilt over. How dare an outsider who does not know me make rude, hurtful comments about my satisfaction with my daughter. Once you have a child you will understand that nothing else compares, that your life has a completeness that you never knew. My daughter is my world. I have heard many a mom say that they are better mom's for having followed their dreams. If you are unhappy with an aspect of your life (eg career) it has a negative impact on you as a parent.

That said, it took us several long years to have a child. You cannot predict the future and to think YOU get to decide exactly when you have a child is naive. As i have learned, the longer you wait, the slimmer your chances of things working out. You are judgemental and assuming that what is best for you is best for all. Please keep your comments that may stem from your own unhappiness to another forum.

Again, thank you to those who offered constructive feedback.

At the risk of sounding like a troll... Wait until your little baby is grown to follow your dreams. She should be your priority. She did not decide to be born to a mom who would not be satisfied with what she adds to her mommy's life. You decided to have her. YOU should be raising her, not dropping her off in day-orphanage to be raised by someone else, pawning her off on family so you can get in more study time.

And, we have children so we can be proud of them, not so they can be proud of us!

I am waiting to have kids. My heart and my body hurt everyday for the desire to be pregnant, hold my baby, look into his eyes. Share his every moment with my husband when he comes home from work. All of this must wait until the DVM diploma has ink and is dry. You no longer have the option to wait to have kids... you made a choice.

The way we know we are doing the right thing in life is because it is difficult. After your daughter is up and out, there may still be time for you to pursue your MD. A woman in the class above me is in her 60's!

I beg you, on behalf of your daughter, re-think your timing!

J

 

[TopDocChick]

I totally agree with what your saying. But we all have mothers. I was raised by a fulltime working mom who went to school at night. She did a great job. And set an example that you can always go back to improve your education. So I think we could articulate this point of view from different perspectives.

I had a stay at home mom who was not the loving caring kind of mother that we all desire to be. If only she had a job that she enjoyed that would have made her more of a confident self fulfilled person. We all have our experiences. I agree that my comment towards that poster was on the sarcastic side - but I really do get tired of hearing people assume that because I want to go to medical school I am a bad mother. My children are proud of me. My husband is a great role model in his day to day nurturing role with the children. My children have also formed amazing bonds with their grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles who have been as much a part of their life as their parents. They have also had amazing teachers and day care providers who love them and have instilled with them the knowledge that people are good and that love is everywhere.

 

[ShyRem]

PT, I'm a mom to two and a soon to be MSII. You will always find those who will criticize your life choices, whether to have children, not to have children, to go to school, to stay home, etc. You can't please everyone.

My advice would be to use the handy-dandy "ignore user" feature. If you open a user's profile, you'll see the first box with their avatar. In the bottom bar of that very same first box, you'll see "Add [user] to your ignore list". It's a wonderful feature, and one far too seldom utilized.

Now, people, can we get back on the topic of helping PT out please? She's asking for advice to help her with her plan for medical school, not for attacks regarding her personal life.

PT, from one mommy to another: you go girl. 🙂

 

[Nasrudin]

Agreed. Working moms rock!

PT to MD,

In order for us to contribute meaningful input...
We nee to know your numbers breakdown exactly:

(the numbers you gave weren't clear if they encompassed the totals to date including recent course work--keep in mind udergraduate gpa's include postbac classes in their calculation)
What is your cum u-grad gpa?
What is your u-grad BCMP gpa?
What is your graduate gpa from PT school?

Do have good physician interaction to the effect that they would support your application to medical school?
Do you have good relationships with any science professors who would do the same?

We'll start with constructive input when these data points are given--everything that relates to decision making in terms of building your application essentially wraps itself around where you stand in the applicant pool numbers wise. Those are the only constructive points of strategic discussion. The rest relates to your own unique narrative and how you present that can be rather subjective and highly personal.

You could definitely take organic in isolation from gneral chem in my opinion. But it would help to have some periodic trends and properties in your head as well as some basic acid/base and kinetics principle dialed up.

I have heard of older serious applicants doing well with aggressive prep wothout recent coursework. I'll have to do the MCAT with physics and general chem that is 4-5 years old. When I looked at the MCAT materials I realized I had forgotten a lot of it. So its going to take a huge effort for me as well.

 

[Buckeye4life]

I am looking for a little guidance and greatly appreciate any help offered. I am a 34 yer old physical therapist with a 10 month old daughter. I have been thinking about medical school for about 10 years now...a dream that keeps popping up in my head despite me telling myself it is a crazy idea. It is on my mind all of the time and when i meet a med student or see residents at the hospital where i work, i get a pit in my stomach because i want so much to be on that path. So I am finally trying to take some steps in the right direction and have made a decision to start to move forward towards this dream.

I have my BA in Speech Pathology (3.3 GPA), took 2 years of sciences at a local college (3.9 GPA) then went for my Master's degree in PT at a top school (3.7 GPA). After 5 years of practice i completed a 1 year bridge program to upgrade my master's to a clinical doctorate in PT (DPT). I have worked in a hospital as a PT for 7 1/2 years and my focus is orthopedics.

I am terrified of the MCAT and am concerned that my sciences are too old-11 years. I am missing organic chem and am registered to take this in the fall (yikes!).

I have called some of the NY schools (where i live) and they have no interest in talking to perspective applicants. They just direct you to their web site. Is it critical to re-take my pre-reqs (which would take me 3-4 years b/c of my job and home responsibilities). Also, is it feasible to take organic chem 10 years after inorganic? Can one perform well on the MCAT"s with agressive prep without recent science course work?? Also, i am nervous about trying to balance being a mother and medical school....

My tentative plan is for a year of organic chem (07-08), summer and fall (08) and spring (09) MCAT prep and a 2 part bio or physics course, then apply. In the meantime i would do some volunteering and shadowing, try to get a paper published, and develop/rekindle some relationships for LOR.


Any advice is welcome and greatly appreciated.
Thank You.

I really understand what you're going through with wanting to be a physician while working in a hospital setting. I too am a PT who is going back to med school in a month. My advice would be to look closely at osteopathic schools. My prereqs were 8 years old or older and none of the schools seemed to have a problem with it. I took a KAPLAN review course and did well enough to be competitive for D.O. schools. You will have an advantage with the material fresh in your mind, however, after taking the real classes. My experience over the past year of applying basically left me with the impression that allopathic schools are looking strictly at raw scores and care very little about health care experience when trying to determine who to interview, whereas with D.O. programs, health care experience was a definite advantage. You'll still need the marks, but you'll get more latitude with osteopathic rather than allopathic.

Just a side note, the extra emphasis on the musculoskeletal system with osteopathic medicine makes more sense in terms of a PT background. I've heard several PTs say that the D.O. schools training is much more familiar with a PTs train of thought, whereas, M.D. education is like starting completely over again with your thinking. Also, many D.O. programs have a problem based learning curriculum, and LECOM has an independent study program, which I chose, which would allow for more flexibility with your schedule especially with a family and young children. Judging by your name, you may be set on getting your M.D., but I just wanted to say that D.O. is a great route to becoming a physician as well and may actually be a better fit for a physical therapist.

 

[jfitzpatri8]

I think it is SO FUNNY when women who have no kids have an opinion about what moms should be like. You live your life and let her live hers. You raise your kids anyway you want to. I assume you aren't going to work when you have children, right? I mean, you can't leave them with a family member - that would be horrid! Your child should ONLY be exposed to YOU YOU YOU! (Seems like a terrible self esteem problem). So what are you going to do with that DVM diploma? Just hang it up? Maybe in the nursery as a sign of your sacrifice for your precious bundle. When you do have children you will think back about this post I am sending you and realize that it is from a good place.

My DVM will be put to good use. In veterinary medicine, just as in human medicine, there is plenty of opportunity in relief work.

You know nothing of my situation. I was 12 when my mom had my first kid. I was handed a newborn that my mother had no interest in. I was the one who fed her, changed her diapers, her first word was "sissy", I took her to school and picked her up. She just graduated HS with an acceptance to Princeton. I think I know something about raising kids. I didn't go strait to college when I graduated, because I had RESPONSIBILITIES. I waited for her to go to Middle School before I started pursuing my goals. I made her a priority.

And yes, I absolutely DO think that the only adult that should spend the most time with an infant is its mother. Study after study has shown that while there is no longer a physical umbilicus, there is an emotional one. It just makes sense. The only sounds that they have had consistently since they had ears were the ones from mom. The perfect nourishment for them comes from her body. She is the one who is getting megadoses of prolactin and oxytocin to encourage formation of a bond.


So my children will have all of me in their waking hours. I will raise them. If you want to farm out your kids, that is your business. They will pay the price while they are young, and you will pay the price when they grow up and realize how low they were on your priority list. I know from whence I speak on this. I had 2 absentee parents. I lived in squalor, with boyfriends and girlfriends moving in and out with their kids, with alcoholism and just plain selfishness.

Spend your life being selfless. You will respect yourself for it- and those around you will appreciate you for it.

I know that my views will not be well accepted here, but the niggling part deep down in your feminist heart, under lock and chain, would blossom and you would thrive if you listened instead of just bashing me down out of fear.

J

 

[TopDocChick]

J -

You sound like you have had a lot of opportunity to see bad parents in your life. I am so sorry for attacking you.

Here is my point though. You have made a decision based on your experiences that you would like to be home with your children because you find that best. What you haven't considered is that everyone has had experiences that propels them in one direction or another. You can't say that your way is the best way. You do not know that. There are many right answers to every question.

My children are all breastfeed for over a year and I cosleep with them until they are comfortable in their own rooms. (Last night they were all in our bed - 5 people in one bed, mighty squishy!) My husband is a very sensitive person who nurtures them daily. I have a special relationship with each child and consider them my pride and joy. I make a special trip to the library with them once a week and get out new books and read to them almost every day. I also spend the majority of my Saturday with them.

There is no conflict of interest in going to medical school and loving your kids. I can see the conflict of interest in the neglect and alcoholism and the unstable boy/girl friends you described. There is stability in working mom families. There is love and nurturing. Don't assume that because mom is busy kids get thrown away. There are plenty of stay at home moms that keep themselves busy with PTA and volunteering - what is the difference? Why accept that as ok over medical school? And why assume that just because a woman wants to work she is unfeminine?

Again, these are things you will understand when you have your own children.

One more thing - the OP has a 10 month old now. By the time she gets into medical school her child will be old enough for preschool. Studies show that preschool children do better in kindergarten. Usually the University's have amazing preschool programs and then her baby will be on campus with her. There are more options than just throwing a child into a dirty daycare with a washed out woman who watches soaps all day. Loving mothers do find whats best for their kids.

 

[crazydiamond]

My DVM will be put to good use. In veterinary medicine, just as in human medicine, there is plenty of opportunity in relief work.

You know nothing of my situation. I was 12 when my mom had my first kid. I was handed a newborn that my mother had no interest in. I was the one who fed her, changed her diapers, her first word was "sissy", I took her to school and picked her up. She just graduated HS with an acceptance to Princeton. I think I know something about raising kids. I didn't go strait to college when I graduated, because I had RESPONSIBILITIES. I waited for her to go to Middle School before I started pursuing my goals. I made her a priority.

And yes, I absolutely DO think that the only adult that should spend the most time with an infant is its mother. Study after study has shown that while there is no longer a physical umbilicus, there is an emotional one. It just makes sense. The only sounds that they have had consistently since they had ears were the ones from mom. The perfect nourishment for them comes from her body. She is the one who is getting megadoses of prolactin and oxytocin to encourage formation of a bond.


So my children will have all of me in their waking hours. I will raise them. If you want to farm out your kids, that is your business. They will pay the price while they are young, and you will pay the price when they grow up and realize how low they were on your priority list. I know from whence I speak on this. I had 2 absentee parents. I lived in squalor, with boyfriends and girlfriends moving in and out with their kids, with alcoholism and just plain selfishness.

Spend your life being selfless. You will respect yourself for it- and those around you will appreciate you for it.

I know that my views will not be well accepted here, but the niggling part deep down in your feminist heart, under lock and chain, would blossom and you would thrive if you listened instead of just bashing me down out of fear.

J

Your situation is just that. Your situation. I'm actually pretty offended of your blanket application of your situation to all situations. I assure you, I am nothing like your mother and my daughter is not growing up the way you did.

And if I may, it sounds like you have definitely swung to the other extreme. It is healthy to have a mix of experiences growing up and learning to interact with other people than just mom. It sounds like in all your neglect, you have resolved to not force a child to grow up the same way you did. And your solution, as admirable as you try make it, is to completely swing the other direction and insist that you, and only you, be there for your child.

There's nothing more pathetic than a woman who sacrifices everything, who sacrifices her self, for another being -- even a child -- when the situation can be avoided. I don't admire women who abandon their dreams, their goals, their emotional and intellectual nourishment, and their very soul. I pity them because they are nothing but an empty shell. They had chances to go back to school, enjoy the company of adults at their workplace, take up a hobby, or have lunches with friends, but they abandoned that for the sole reason of avoiding dad or grandma or, godforbid, a friend, watch little Jimmy for a few hours? Unbelievable.

It is also possible to be a nurturing stay-at-home-parent. But the ones I know do not abandon their very self. They volunteer, have hobbies, are involved in church, and pursue their own goals and dreams. The only difference is they don't work for money. These are not the parents I speak of.

There is a healthy balance. Perhaps you can't see it, but there is. It is possible to raise well-adjusted children who spend a few hours in the care of another trusted invidual while full-filling goals for ourselves.

And this is coming from someone who is extremely AP -- I breastfeed (yes, still going strong at 26 mos), I cloth diaper, I babywear, I co-sleep, I don't CIO, use gentle discipline, and am most definitely very attached to my little girl. I am able to strike a balance between work, pleasure, wife, and mother and we are all better off for it.

 

[TopDocChick]

Crazy, we should be friends! 🙂

 

[crazydiamond]

Crazy, we should be friends! 🙂

Absolutely, sounds like we'd get along great! 😀

 

[lilnoelle]

And this is coming from someone who is extremely AP -- I breastfeed (yes, still going strong at 26 mos),

? I thought you said your child was 10 months old?

Anyway... I'm also a mother who is currently in med school. I agree that your children don't have to suffer just because you are a medical student... at least not in the first two years, nor in the fourth year. However, in your third year of school and in residency, your children will definitely see less of you than they do now.

Its important for ALL of us to REALLY decide if medicine is what we really want, but I would advise you to spend a LOT of time and thought about this. I think that for many individuals, the saying "the grass is always greener" really applies. I am really happy that I'm a medical student and am excited about the opportunity that has been given me, yet at the same time, I think if I had the knowledge that I currently do about medicine back when I was in college and applying, I would've done something else. I'm a bit jealous of those health professionals who took a shorter road and already have started their careers. (Remember, the grass is always greener...) Anyway, I don't regret my decision, I'm excited about it, but I still think I would do something else if I really had known what I was getting myself into back then.

 

[TopDocChick]

OP's child is 10 months. I know, i had to double check that too. Lol.

I don't think a week goes by where i don't find myself saying "why am i doing all this?" but then I remember that if I wasn't doing this I would be saying "Why am i not?". Every road has its challenges. Every day I am weighing and balancing and deciding. Every time i change course (decide to get a PHD or work instead) I can never get comfortable with that decision. I always come back to going to medical school. I know it is right and it is really what we all want.

Crazy, where are you applying?

 

[PTtoMD]

Wow-i wasn't anticipating such a debate about being a mom and a med-student or just being a working mom. It is great though to hear people's perspectives (as long as they are respectful). I still feel jfitz crossed the line with your initial comments and that takes value away from any further posts you make. I am sorry for your unfortunate situation, it has obviously scarred you. I have to agree with the philosophy's of topdoc and crazy. I think that balance is good. I have lots of full time SAHM friends who i see battle with identity issues and at times depression. Having your own identity and feeling good about who you are and what you do each day has tremendous value for one as a mother. For those who have no desire to work and advance their education, i think it is great, but only if they are happy. It is the many mom's who want to have a life outside of their kids but ignore their inner wishes that i worry about. I will always be here for my daughter and i will make it work. I took nearly 8 months off work to be home with her and am still going strong with nursing at 10 months. Having a child puts life in perspective...we are so very blessed, she will always be my priority....i think only a mother can understand that you can be a great mom and still follow your dreams.

It is inspiring to hear from so many who have achieved balance in their life quests. I also appreciate the 'grass is always greener' post. I know this is a tremendous step and I am not disillushioned about the intensity of med school or a career in medicine. I know i am lucky to be in a fulfilling health care career where i can work part time and feel good about what i do everyday. That plus my tremendous fulfillment as a mother does not make the dream of med school go away. I now understand when people say they have a caling towards something...it is this little voice inside of you that keeps directing you a certain way despite your best efforts to suppress it!

Buckeyes post about osteopathic medical school is appreciated as well. I have to give it more thought. I think my MCAT scores will have a big impact on where i apply. I may not score in the allopathic school range.

I will pull out my transcripts and calculate my cum and BCMP GPA's. My graduate(MSPT) GPA is 3.7. My transitional clinical doctorate program was based on the school's med school model so all courses were Pass, High Pass. I am heading away for the weekend with my family so will post that info when i return. Thank you again for your help.

 

[aero]

I am looking for a little guidance and greatly appreciate any help offered. I am a 34 yer old physical therapist with a 10 month old daughter. I have been thinking about medical school for about 10 years now...a dream that keeps popping up in my head despite me telling myself it is a crazy idea. It is on my mind all of the time and when i meet a med student or see residents at the hospital where i work, i get a pit in my stomach because i want so much to be on that path. So I am finally trying to take some steps in the right direction and have made a decision to start to move forward towards this dream.

I have my BA in Speech Pathology (3.3 GPA), took 2 years of sciences at a local college (3.9 GPA) then went for my Master's degree in PT at a top school (3.7 GPA). After 5 years of practice i completed a 1 year bridge program to upgrade my master's to a clinical doctorate in PT (DPT). I have worked in a hospital as a PT for 7 1/2 years and my focus is orthopedics.

I am terrified of the MCAT and am concerned that my sciences are too old-11 years. I am missing organic chem and am registered to take this in the fall (yikes!).

I have called some of the NY schools (where i live) and they have no interest in talking to perspective applicants. They just direct you to their web site. Is it critical to re-take my pre-reqs (which would take me 3-4 years b/c of my job and home responsibilities). Also, is it feasible to take organic chem 10 years after inorganic? Can one perform well on the MCAT"s with agressive prep without recent science course work?? Also, i am nervous about trying to balance being a mother and medical school....

My tentative plan is for a year of organic chem (07-08), summer and fall (08) and spring (09) MCAT prep and a 2 part bio or physics course, then apply. In the meantime i would do some volunteering and shadowing, try to get a paper published, and develop/rekindle some relationships for LOR.


Any advice is welcome and greatly appreciated.
Thank You.

One example that worked:

Undergrad in engineering 1993 so all classes are OLD.
MS in engineering 1999 so even later stuff is OLD.
GPA: 3.89 undergrad

Decided to make med school happen in November of 2005. Studied the first quarter of ochem on my own then jumped into second and third quarter classes. Studied biology on my own June-July of 2006. Studied for MCAT June to August of 06 using ExamKrackers series (awesome reference!) and some Kaplan reference book. MCAT in August of 2006 (35Q). Took Biology with lab, one quarter of ochem lab, one quarter of general chem lab, and one quarter of graduate level biochemistry in 2006-2007 school year. I saw no point in continuing with the labs as they were of little value going forward. By the end I was short two quarters of Ochem lab, 2 quarters of general chem lab, and the third quarter of general chemistry (wasn't required for my undergrad degree) from the general list of requirements.

I applied to local and mid-tier schools. When I got MCAT results I also applied to some top tier "just in case". Accepted at two and waitlisted at Duke. None of them asked about age of classes or mentioned my incomplete coursework. Duke's website mentions a time limit of 8 years I think but when I called them they said it wasn't a problem if MCAT scores are good. I did get negative feedback from Vanderbilt when I called them that applying without completed pre-reqs would kill my application because it doesn't show dedication / complete progress.

In summary, within 2 years of deciding to make it happen I will be starting med school (T minus 31 days). If I had taken more time to get everything in order I might have had a better chance at more schools but at this point I wanted to take the quickest path.

Oh, I also have three kids and I lost very little time with them making this work. I studied over lunch hour at work and after they went to bed. Classes were two nights a week so it wasn't too bad.

Good luck to you! Getting ready in a short time can be done without sacrificing family!

 

[jfitzpatri8]

I appreciate those of you who took the time to see where I was coming from. I sincerely believe that the best place for a mom to be is with her kids. I do not think that is simply from my own bad childhood. Those moms who "lose their identities" when raising kids are doing something wrong. I would not be opposed to seeking out an opportunity to study where the children could be with mom while she is in class. I know quite a few vet students who have young babies and who only come in to attend labs and required attendance classes- leaving the children with husbands. They then "attend" non-required lectures through podcast. These moms have well adjusted babies.

The other moms in my class, who put school before their kids, literally have long-term baby sitters who watch the kids from 6am to 9pm... so mom can "study and go to class." This, in my view, is reprehensible.

I am sorry if my views offended. They are somewhat harsh, but they are hard-earned. My mom was a "working mom" very dedicated to her "career" as a secretary. My dad was a cop, protecting the world but not his daughter.

I firmly believe that we can do many things with our lives- just not all things. That is where CHOICE comes in. We must make decisions. And some things cannot be accomplished well when done together. I think residency and children just don't play nice together. Should be done consecutively, not concurrently.

Again, thank you for the chance to redeem myself. If you read my original post, it was just all about protecting your little girl.😍

Jenn

 

[Skialta]

PTtoMD:

So I was a PT for 6 1/2 years before going back to med school. I was basically in the same boat as you, I took o-chem at a CC and took a Kaplan MCAT course because my physics and gen chem were 10 years old. I just graduated 07 and am starting my gen surgery residency. You can PM me if you have any questions. You can totally do it.


Skialta

 

[PT2MD]

Hey PTtoMD, it's PT2MD. 😉 Nice to know we're not the only ones out there right? This is my second year applying...I did a ton of things incorrectly the first time around and corrected many of them for this cycle. I have not been accepted anywhere (yet), but would be more than happy to offer any insight I can to help you out. Good luck to you! I think you are making a good choice - stick with it and we will get there. 😀

By the way, I reviewed your original post and think you have a good plan. My prerequisites are all over 12-15 years old. I took the MCAT and got a 25S initially and then a 27T. If I don't get in this cycle (eventhough I will 😉) my plan is to retake basic chem and physics followed by a retake of the MCAT. I think I will destroy it with more current background on the basics. You will too.

Also great to read you are a fellow orthopedic PT!

 

[PTtoMD]

Hi there-i did calculated my GPA's that 'nasruddin' had asked to specify. Overall, my undergrad GPA including my post-bacc sciences is 3.6 and my math/science GPA is a 3.9. As for support from the physicians i work with, there are two orthopedists who refer a high percentage of our patients. Unfortunately, I don't know them very well. Our offices are not close in proximity, so communication is usually through a phone call or e-mail. I don't know what their reaction would be if i asked for their support through a LOR. They certainly do not consider PT's in the same light as fellow physicians. We have a strong professional relationship but it is just accepted that they are our 'superiors' if you will. I don't feel they look to us as equals from a knowledge/intelligence viewpoint and i fear they would not take my interests in medical school seriously.
It would be an interesting conversation. However, they are thrilled with my PT teams outcomes so maybe i am underestimating their level of respect. It is our work that often makes them look good (eg post-op rehab).

Thanks for all of the great, encouraging stories!

To jfitz, your initial post still bothers me-you attacked me as a mother without knowing me and you seem like you are a 'my way is the only way' type of person who does not respect the choices of others. You should apologize for your comment as it was rude and inappropriate. We could all be cruel and judgemental in our posts but that is not the purpose of this forum. I could say more but since i am a respectful person, i will refrain.

 

[Nasrudin]

Hi there-i did calculated my GPA's that 'nasruddin' had asked to specify. Overall, my undergrad GPA including my post-bacc sciences is 3.6 and my math/science GPA is a 3.9. As for support from the physicians i work with, there are two orthopedists who refer a high percentage of our patients. Unfortunately, I don't know them very well. Our offices are not close in proximity, so communication is usually through a phone call or e-mail. I don't know what their reaction would be if i asked for their support through a LOR. They certainly do not consider PT's in the same light as fellow physicians. We have a strong professional relationship but it is just accepted that they are our 'superiors' if you will. I don't feel they look to us as equals from a knowledge/intelligence viewpoint and i fear they would not take my interests in medical school seriously.
It would be an interesting conversation. However, they are thrilled with my PT teams outcomes so maybe i am underestimating their level of respect. It is our work that often makes them look good (eg post-op rehab).

Thanks for all of the great, encouraging stories!

To jfitz, your initial post still bothers me-you attacked me as a mother without knowing me and you seem like you are a 'my way is the only way' type of person who does not respect the choices of others. You should apologize for your comment as it was rude and inappropriate. We could all be cruel and judgemental in our posts but that is not the purpose of this forum. I could say more but since i am a respectful person, i will refrain.

You are in outstanding shape for application purposes. Your reasoning on physician relationships is strange to me--it doesn't matter if they are considered your superiors, if they weren't you'd be a physician and wouldn't need their support--For example I'm basically the equivalent of a nurses assistant and I have the support of 3 very good physicians. People generally like flattery and they like helping people follow in their footsteps. Write a nice letter flattering a physician earnestly that you have friendly relations with and ask them if they would support your application to medical school if yes them provide them with a packet of brief summarizing information about you and the format of your collecting service--like Interfolio.

You have excellent credentials and clinical experience the rest is MCAT and presenting yourself well. There are a lot of parents here who could give tips about doing this thing with kids. good luck

 

[Think Big]

As far as jfitz's comment is concerned, what you all have to realize is that she's in vet school. It's a profession dominated by women (90%) where getting your degree only to stay home and have kids for the next few years is the norm. Great if you want to have kids but who wants to go to a vet that took five years off between school and practice? Of course, not being current on your skills is far less of an issue when there's no malpractice involved. I mean really, who cares if your incompetance kills a dog? Seriously, if you're thinking of having kids, veterinary medicine is the easiest place to do it. Also, it's a whole lot easier to put your family life on hold for only 4 years (vets don't have a required residency) instead of 7+. And while I'm on the topic of the lack of a required residency, I should point out that it's the reason why vets don't have the same skill level as physicians.

Actually, that's NOT my opinion at all. NONE of it is my opinion. It's a collection of comments I got from various people when I was pre-vet. I stated it for 2 reasons.

Reason 1. Because it really upset me when people who knew nothing about vet school made blanket (and often judgemental) statements about the profession I wanted to go into. Hopefully jfitz read that and felt just a little of the "how dare this person who knows nothing about my situation judge my decision" resentment that she's bred among others in this forum.


Reason 2:

They certainly do not consider PT's in the same light as fellow physicians. We have a strong professional relationship but it is just accepted that they are our 'superiors' if you will. I don't feel they look to us as equals from a knowledge/intelligence viewpoint and i fear they would not take my interests in medical school seriously.

I worked in biomed research for a long time, during which I was pre-vet. My superiors (most of whom were physicians) were always supportive, but their tone and enthusiasm changed dramatically when I switched to pre-med. Some of it had to do with the fact that they held some of common misconceptions about vets that I stated above. (The vets I worked with, on the other hand, became less interested). It was nothing personal. It's just that people seem to take interest when they learn that you are following in their footsteps. So while the physicians you work with don't seem to look at you as an equal, you might be surprised at how much that changes when you tell them you're interested in med school.

And finally, with regard to your original question, I applied with prereq's that were 7-10 years old. The fact that the MCAT tests the material covered in those classes is your way to compensate for old coursework. If you do well on the MCAT, you clearly have a good grasp of Physics, Chemistry and Biology regardless of how long ago the classes were taken.

 

[PTtoMD]

You are in outstanding shape for application purposes. Your reasoning on physician relationships is strange to me--it doesn't matter if they are considered your superiors, if they weren't you'd be a physician and wouldn't need their support--For example I'm basically the equivalent of a nurses assistant and I have the support of 3 very good physicians. People generally like flattery and they like helping people follow in their footsteps. Write a nice letter flattering a physician earnestly that you have friendly relations with and ask them if they would support your application to medical school if yes them provide them with a packet of brief summarizing information about you and the format of your collecting service--like Interfolio.

You have excellent credentials and clinical experience the rest is MCAT and presenting yourself well. There are a lot of parents here who could give tips about doing this thing with kids. good luck

Thanks for your encouraging post. I like your suggestion for approaching the MD's. I do have a nice relationship with 2 MD's. I will approach them when the time comes.
Thanks again!

 

[PTtoMD]

Thanks 'Think Big' for your entertaining and informative post. I guess everything comes full circle!

Thanks to everyone for all of your reply's, motivational stories and suggestions. This was my first post on SDN-what a great site! I am learning so much about the application process and am very grateful for everyone's help.🙂

 

[budhak0n]

Here is one example: I had all the standard prereqs (chem, phys, bio, English, genetics, biochem, etc.) and was interviewing at Nebraska with a 39 MCAT (14 on BS) and a PhD in chemistry on my resume. They wanted me to take another bio course (AFTER interviewing, before matriculating), and would not accept my 20-year-old microbiology course as a substitute. They were absolutely inflexible; they did not tell me about this until the day of the interview, which meant that I wasted time and money on a trip to Omaha. (They did let me get by with 20-year-old chem/phys because that's what my PhD was in. My other bio courses were within the past 2 years.)

So you nixed them solely on the request that you retake Bio? Seems odd, was this a school you really wanted to attend?

 

[Despina]

At the risk of sounding like a troll... Wait until your little baby is grown to follow your dreams. She should be your priority. She did not decide to be born to a mom who would not be satisfied with what she adds to her mommy's life. You decided to have her. YOU should be raising her, not dropping her off in day-orphanage to be raised by someone else, pawning her off on family so you can get in more study time.

And, we have children so we can be proud of them, not so they can be proud of us!

I am waiting to have kids. My heart and my body hurt everyday for the desire to be pregnant, hold my baby, look into his eyes. Share his every moment with my husband when he comes home from work. All of this must wait until the DVM diploma has ink and is dry. You no longer have the option to wait to have kids... you made a choice.

The way we know we are doing the right thing in life is because it is difficult. After your daughter is up and out, there may still be time for you to pursue your MD. A woman in the class above me is in her 60's!

I beg you, on behalf of your daughter, re-think your timing!

J

My boyfriend's Mom started medical school when he was ONE! She was a single Mom, and he came out just fine. This was before the days that hospitals had daycare for staff (1970's). She was broke, and just let him run around the pediatric ward, when she was on call during her residency. He used to spend the night and hang out at the hospital. You can do a lot of reading with a baby in your lap. I say, "Go for it!"

 

[jfitzpatri8]

I will not apologize. I have tempered and clarified. You can choose to maintain your defensive, petty, self-centered position. Cool with me. I don't have to look my kids in the eye and tell them they weren't enough for me.

I maintain my position. Consecutive, not concurrent. You made a choice. You should honor it (and her). She is precious in my eyes, if not in yours. Perhaps you would send her to me? Or you could give her up for private adoption to someone who wants to raise her. I would defer or drop out of vet school if my bc failed. Plain and simple.

I wish you well. I sure hope that saving others' lives makes up for ruining your daughter's.

As to the argument meant to raise my hackles about putting down veterinary medicine. I have heard it all before. Hell, I even believe some of it. I chose vet med because it was my "yellow brick road". Human med is yours. Not better or worse. Just different.

I do regret one thing- thinking that when you asked for advice, you really wanted a myriad of opinions, and not just the ones that soothed your ego and your conscience.

I won't make that mistake again. You have seen the last of me.

 

[deleted6669]

2 thoughts...
DO schools tend to be more forgiving of all prereqs and really like older applicants, especially those with prior experience.
also consider PA. 2 yrs of school, much less debt, and with your prior background you could get a job right out of school with an ortho or physiatry group making > 100k....worth thinking about. 2 yrs of school instead of 7+. 6 figure income. low debt. no mcat. no extra prereqs.more time with family. you should SERIOUSLY consider this.there are also a number of part time pa programs that can be done in 3 yrs. yr 1 and 2 are part time( the didactic yr split in half) yr 3 is a full time clinical yr.
we had a # of P.T. (physical therapy as well as part time) folks in my program.
see www.aapa.org for general pa info
www.physicianassistant.net for a pa specific forum
www.appap.org for optional paid postgrad pa residencies

 

[MeowMix]

So you nixed them solely on the request that you retake Bio? Seems odd, was this a school you really wanted to attend?

It was January, so it was too late to enroll in any winter course work, and the courses they wanted me to take were usually filled by premed undergrads and closed to post-bacc students. I was remodeling my house prior to selling it, working, finishing 2 prereqs (English), and I had already been accepted to 3 other schools. It was simply not worth the effort to jump through more unnecessary hoops.

The advice above, to consider PA, is excellent.