Would you choose to be in the charter class of a new school?

[newschools]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I have been a member for a bit but started this user name for anonymity. Im not trying to start an argument but would like some genuine thoughts on the issues of being in the charter class of a new medical school. I have an acceptance at one of the new MD schools and was told it would be unlikely that i would get any financial incentives such as scholarships etc. since they already have prelim accreditation w/ LCME and do not have the money to give out major scholarships. What are the drawbacks of being in a charter class? Would it be better to go to a well established DO school? How are new schools viewed by established physicians, residency directors, and future potential employers? Anything I am missing? If I end up getting into a more established school that costs more would you take the financial hit to avoid being in the charter class? Any opinions welcome. Thanks!

 

[mtbtx]

I think I would consider it a gamble because there is really no way to tell how people (physicians, residencies, etc.) will feel about you graduating from that school in the future. On the other hand, any MD school, even if brand new, would be better than DO IMO.

 

[willen101383]

I think I would consider it a gamble because there is really no way to tell how people (physicians, residencies, etc.) will feel about you graduating from that school in the future. On the other hand, any MD school, even if brand new, would be better than DO IMO.

Thanks for providing me with one of the most *****ic statements I have ever read. Clearly you dont know anything about DO schools. 👎

 

[deleted357625]

I think I would consider it a gamble because there is really no way to tell how people (physicians, residencies, etc.) will feel about you graduating from that school in the future. On the other hand, any MD school, even if brand new, would be better than DO IMO.

M.D. schools are not necessarily better than D.O.
There are some competitive D.O. schools and they are not "better" or "worse"
Some people only apply to D.O. schools because they might like the additional practice they learn etc. It's all personal preference.
There are a few high ranked D.O. schools out there. (Mainly primary care)

 

[Avoidthetiger]

I have applied to both new MD schools and DO so hopefully this will provide some more insight:

The benefit I saw in new MD schools is:
1. Financial incentive <-- if they aren't offering this and you have other offers, you might want to consider your other offers
2. Some are a new school
3. More creative curriculum <-- have the most up to date curriculum that isn't just lecture based (team, pbl, start clinicals earlier, ect, research)

More established schools (DO/MD) offer:
1. a more established curriculum -- that they know works
2. Established clinical rotations -- known match lists
3. Upperclassmen help <- via tutoring and old study guides, ect.

Honestly, I think having upperclassmen is a huge advantage... but I am not in medical school yet, so I could be wrong. There is one new medical school that I would really consider if given an acceptance and a two-year tuition scholarship (maybe even a one-year scholarship if I had only been accepted to DO schools -- but that is because I am interested in research)... but I do think more established schools are better because you know what you will get out of them once you start.

Really though, I wouldn't worry too much about it being a new school and go with the program that you will fit best with and get the most out of.

 

[mtbtx]

Thanks for providing me with one of the most *****ic statements I have ever read. Clearly you dont know anything about DO schools. 👎

A bit testy today are we? Most, if not all DO schools are less competitive for residency spots than MD schools. I might entertain the argument if we knew what new MD school we were talking about, but for the most part what I said is true. I also added the disclaimer of "IMO", which indicates that I don't really believe in the whole "osteopathic mantra".

 

[willen101383]

A bit testy today are we? How is any DO school more competitive for a residency than an MD school? I might entertain the argument if we knew what new MD school we were talking about, but for the most part what I said is true.

No you are being insulting. I busted my ass to get into a DO school and I bust my ass still. I am proud of where I go and to make blanket statements such as you did shows me that you really dont know whats up.

Youre trying to say that some brand new MD school is going to be better than my school (PCOM) with 111 years in Philadelphia? Thats complete bull****.

 

[newschools]

Oakland

 

[newschools]

also I have no interest in OMM, i am also not interested in primary care or any of the super competitive residencies

 

[eli20]

While it may be true that your DO school is better than some MD schools, it doesn't change the fact that there are people in positions of power who hold prejudices and misconceptions. Ignorant of institution most people will assume things about M.D. vs D.O. None of this is said to hurt your feelings just to point out the way things are, even if many don't personally subscribe to such beliefs.

@op:
I'm struggling with this same problem. I got offered 15k/year at a newer school (I'd be in the third class). As well as a couple of other better ranked offers (all MD).

My problem is I really liked the new school. Great staff/facilities/professors and a really warm, positive, and collaborative environment. The attitude is that everyone there will do whatever it takes for the school to prove itself. But I'm worried that attending would be a negative in the future (for residency etc.)

 

[mtbtx]

No you are being insulting. I busted my ass to get into a DO school and I bust my ass still. I am proud of where I go and to make blanket statements such as you did shows me that you really dont know whats up.

Youre trying to say that some brand new MD school is going to be better than my school (PCOM) with 111 years in Philadelphia? Thats complete bull****.

I thought about it and edited my above post slightly. Yes, there are a few DO schools that are competitive but for the most part its just not true. There's just not really a basis for an argument that DO>MD, sorry. Most DO schools have lower stats compared to MD schools, which makes it more competitive to land a good residency. Like I said, I don't know which new MD school we're talking about, but based on the OP's original question of new MD vs. DO, any sane person would say new MD.

And shouldn't you be studying?

 

[Avoidthetiger]

Oakland

Oakland was amazing when I went up there to interview! I was very impressed by their new medical school.

It's too bad they aren't considering scholarships for the new class (They are the one that if they gave me a two-year scholarship, I would go in a heartbeat).

Honestly, if you are more excited to go there than the DO acceptance you received, I would! I currently have MD options that are very similar to Oakland but since they been around longer... I would prefer my other acceptances unless Oakland gives me a financial reason to attend. But man, learning in Beaumont Hospitals would be awesome!

 

[Brachyury]

No you are being insulting. I busted my ass to get into a DO school and I bust my ass still. I am proud of where I go and to make blanket statements such as you did shows me that you really dont know whats up.

Youre trying to say that some brand new MD school is going to be better than my school (PCOM) with 111 years in Philadelphia? Thats complete bull****.[/QUOTE]

How about you get back to us when you are applying for residencies

 

[mtbtx]

Yea, just googled that school. I think I would pick it over any other DO school.

 

[mtbtx]

How about you get back to us when you are applying for residencies

👍

 

[Avoidthetiger]

My problem is I really liked the new school. Great staff/facilities/professors and a really warm, positive, and collaborative environment. The attitude is that everyone there will do whatever it takes for the school to prove itself. But I'm worried that attending would be a negative in the future (for residency etc.)

I don't think attending a new medical school would be a negative for your future -- but it might make it harder to get a good residency... as USMLE scores haven't been determined yet, the hospital might be new to clinical rotations and the physicians might write weaker LORs because they never have.

Beaumont Hospital has a pretty well established clinical rotations program going on there and lots of residents to help the med students... so it won't be that hard of a leap for Oakland students to get good training and LORs and apply to good residency [hell -- you might be at advantage for a residency at Beaumont!]

Considering the hospital training at other new med schools with important though. It's part of the reason I wasn't super impressed by VTC (though I still think that med school will be going places.. but Oakland might be going further)

 

[WorldChanger36]

I think it is unwise to think of D.O. schools as somehow being lesser then M.D. schools. I understand that some people really don't like the D.O. mantra and some people are all for it. As far as D.O. schools being less competitive for residency positions I don't understand where you get your understanding of this from. A D.O. with good grades and a great COMPLEX scores is just as likely to get into M.D. residencies, especially if they took the USMLE as well. D.O.s are just as smart and well trained as M.D.s. It is all about the different philosophy and honestly that seems to be melting into the M.D.s as well.
As for me I would not be happy as D.O. or going to a D.O. school. I disagree with the Philosophy and the reasons why D.O. split off from M.D.s. There are also a few other things I did not like about a few D.O. schools I visited. I don't think D.O. are lesser physicians by any means just different and it is that difference that I feel is not right for me.
Don't dog on D.O.s as there are lots of reasons to go to a D.O. school over an M.D. just as there are lots of reasons to go to an M.D. school over a D.O..... Depends on the person.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

How about you get back to us when you are applying for residencies

PCOMs match list is very impressive: http://www.pcom.edu/student_life/student_affairs_main/match_list.html
http://www.pcom.edu/student_life/student_affairs_main/match_2009_phl.html

PCOM is one of the top DO schools out there. You would be an idiot to discount it just for being a DO.

 

[willen101383]

Yea, just googled that school. I think I would pick it over any other DO school.

LOL cool go for it nobody is stopping you. Continue to make ignorant statements premed. Your immaturity shines through.

 

[eli20]

I don't think attending a new medical school would be a negative for your future -- but it might make it harder to get a good residency... as USMLE scores haven't been determined yet, the hospital might be new to clinical rotations and the physicians might write weaker LORs because they never have.

Well the school I'm referring to is with an established hospital that has had residency training as well as 3rd/4th year rotations for many years (it used to be a regional campus).

As for USMLE - this is the thing that I'm worried about even though in my mind it seems silly to pick a school based on them (not too far removed from picking an undergrad based on MCAT score). I think a lot of it is about the individuals taking (those who do well would have done well anywhere etc). Am I completely misinterpreting the situation?

 

[willen101383]

No you are being insulting. I busted my ass to get into a DO school and I bust my ass still. I am proud of where I go and to make blanket statements such as you did shows me that you really dont know whats up.

Youre trying to say that some brand new MD school is going to be better than my school (PCOM) with 111 years in Philadelphia? Thats complete bull****.[/QUOTE]

How about you get back to us when you are applying for residencies

I highly doubt ill still be around then. My 6+ years is plenty and I honestly dont even know why I still care to post on these ridiculous MD vs DO threads.

 

[willen101383]

also I have no interest in OMM, i am also not interested in primary care or any of the super competitive residencies

Good job. You dont want to learn OMM. The only valid non idiotic post in here so far...and a reason I will always respect for not going DO.

 

[eli20]

I highly doubt ill still be around then. My 6+ years is plenty and I honestly dont even know why I still care to post on these ridiculous MD vs DO threads.

Perhaps the defensiveness of D.O.s serves only to increase the perception that they are somehow the lesser of the two?

 

[mtbtx]

LOL cool go for it nobody is stopping you. Continue to make ignorant statements premed. Your immaturity shines through.

To each their own. FWIW, I didn't even consider applying to any DO schools. I honestly wish you the best of luck, but I didn't even want to entertain the idea of having a harder road to a residency. I'm also not that interested in primary care, so all of that added to my decision. You obviously have some insecurity issues about your school to get all defensive like this on SDN. Speaking of immaturity...

 

[willen101383]

Perhaps the defensiveness of D.O.s serves only to increase the perception that they are somehow the lesser of the two?

ITS INSULTING. Like if I came on here and talked $hit about your school. Youd be pretty pissed off too. You people are planning on going to medical school yet you cant understand the fact that talking down about others schools is rude? Wow.

You want to come on here and have a mature convo about the plusses and minuses of each path fine. But to come on here and make blanket statements about DO schools which are largely untrue is completely out of line and immature. Nobody even cares about this once you start med school anyway.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

Well the school I'm referring to is with an established hospital that has had residency training as well as 3rd/4th year rotations for many years (it used to be a regional campus).

As for USMLE - this is the thing that I'm worried about even though in my mind it seems silly to pick a school based on them (not too far removed from picking an undergrad based on MCAT score). I think a lot of it is about the individuals taking (those who do well would have done well anywhere etc). Am I completely misinterpreting the situation?

I have concerns about the USMLE too with new schools and also schools changing their basic science curriculum... but I agree, alot of the USMLE score is going to be based on the individual more than the school. If the school is bad at preparing you for the USMLE though, you might need to do more independent studying and probably use a prep course [but I would use a prep course regardless, no matter what school you attend]. I even had a friend go to a summer program that just refreshed everything he needed to know for the USMLE and he did amazing (~250)... but he was trained in a foreign country and seeking a residency here, so I don't know how easy it is for US students to get into a summer long prep course [BUT I WANT IT!]

 

[willen101383]

To each their own. FWIW, I didn't even consider applying to any DO schools. I honestly wish you the best of luck, but I didn't even want to entertain the idea of having a harder road to a residency. I'm also not that interested in primary care, so all of that added to my decision. You obviously have some insecurity issues about your school to get all defensive like this on SDN. Speaking of immaturity...

haha I am almost 28 years old..but nice try. I have been out of undergrad for 5 years and hold a graduate degree. Trust me...you are sadly mistaken if I care what some kid just out of mommy and daddys house thinks about me or my school. I have absolutely no issues with my school. You keep digging yourself deeper into your hole when you make statements like

A. I am going to have a hard time getting a residency
B. I am only going to go primary care.

Its 2010 bro...DOs arent just going into primary care anymore.

 

[eli20]

ITS INSULTING. Like if I came on here and talked $hit about your school. Youd be pretty pissed off too. You people are planning on going to medical school yet you cant understand the fact that talking down about others schools is rude? Wow.

You want to come on here and have a mature convo about the plusses and minuses of each path fine. But to come on here and make blanket statements about DO schools which are largely untrue is completely out of line and immature. Nobody even cares about this once you start med school anyway.

I'd appreciate if you pointed to a single insulting sentence I've written? My entire point is that when you respond to the situation with angry, capitalized, and vitriolic statements you only exacerbate your position. A reasoned, logical, and calm argument would serve your purposes at changing minds much better.

 

[willen101383]

I'd appreciate if you pointed to a single insulting sentence I've written? My entire point is that when you respond to the situation with angry, capitalized, and vitriolic statements you only exacerbate your position. A reasoned, logical, and calm argument would serve your purposes at changing minds much better.

I didnt mean you. I apologize.

And honestly. It wont. Because pre meds are such "hot ****" that they are unwilling to be swayed. Most have made up their minds and think that MD is so much better than DO...and are unwilling to change their position, no matter how much info you throw at them.

 

[mtbtx]

ITS INSULTING. Like if I came on here and talked $hit about your school. Youd be pretty pissed off too. You people are planning on going to medical school yet you cant understand the fact that talking down about others schools is rude? Wow.

You want to come on here and have a mature convo about the plusses and minuses of each path fine. But to come on here and make blanket statements about DO schools which are largely untrue is completely out of line and immature. Nobody even cares about this once you start med school anyway.

You can't get your feelings hurt over the facts. I'm not gonna lie, I don't know anything about PCOM, but why does every DO school have lower stats (GPA/MCAT) to get accepted? I'm not trying to personally attack you or your school. I was simply sharing my opinion that if I was in the OP's shoes I would pick new MD over DO. If nobody (including the people that will interview you for residencies) cares once you start med school, then why are you on SDN adamantly defending DO schools?

 

[newschools]

Dont schools take step 1 at different times in their curriculum? I have heard Oakland will take theirs later (no verifiable source on this info) I dont know how this will affect scores.

 

[Chrisebril1]

Totally depends new schools.

Medical school curriculum is highly regulated, so it's not like going to a new PhD or MS program, where a few faculty members have complete control.

In addition to that, some times the charter class at a new MD school receives total tuition coverage. UCF is a good example of that.

In addition to that, a lot of the time, new schools are built with loads of starting funding. They basically build everything from facility related from scratch. Older schools had certain machines and amenities that they could afford. As years pass, new things become available, and schools can afford them (with their starting funds).

Long story short, when new medical schools are built they are loaded with cutting edge equipment. "Wow robots".

The money thing when starting up is a little more of a factor when starting schools in a public school.

There are risks associated with being in a charter class. I would attribute most of those risks to lack of an established physician core, and no upper level students to talk to. In some cases the benefits of going to a new school outweigh those risks, especially since medical school curriculum is highly regulated, and not to variable from school to school. May actually be a plus, since in the first year, teachers may be a little more direct with respect to teaching. You might run into older teachers at established schools just "going through the motions".

Charter class at a medical school doesn't seem like that big of a problem.

I would also like to note that charter classes are usually small compared to incoming classes at established schools. Chances are you will be there with 30-40 other students, as opposed to 150+ students found at other schools.

If you like being around people, it might be a problem as you might be a little more secluded in the charter class.

 

[mtbtx]

haha I am almost 28 years old..but nice try. I have been out of undergrad for 5 years and hold a graduate degree. Trust me...you are sadly mistaken if I care what some kid just out of mommy and daddys house thinks about me or my school. I have absolutely no issues with my school. You keep digging yourself deeper into your hole when you make statements like

A. I am going to have a hard time getting a residency
B. I am only going to go primary care.

Its 2010 bro...DOs arent just going into primary care anymore.

What does age have to do with it? That's even worse, don't you have better "adult" things to be doing on a sunday afternoon? There is one DO school in Texas and it is not very competitive compared to the MD schools. My decision for no DO was easy.

 

[willen101383]

You can't get your feelings hurt over the facts. I'm not gonna lie, I don't know anything about PCOM, but why does every DO school have lower stats (GPA/MCAT) to get accepted? I'm not trying to personally attack you or your school. I was simply sharing my opinion that if I was in the OP's shoes I would pick new MD over DO. If nobody (including the people that will interview you for residencies) cares once you start med school, then why are you on SDN adamantly defending DO schools?

Because I am bored and dont feel like doing anything today. It is well known it is EASIER to get into DO schools. Does that mean DO schools put out inferior physicians? No it does not. I really doubt On the flip side...does that mean that this new Oakland school will either? No it does not. In fact I am sure it will train fine physicians. I go to school with some really great people...many of who came to PCOM over MD schools they had gotten into. Thats how highly respected PCOM is.

At any rate man, I am done having this pissing contest with you. You pissed me off when you made your sweeping statement that a new MD school is better than all DO schools out there. I am sure there are some schools it will be better than...and hell...I will be the first one to say there are some DO schools you would NEVER catch me at. There are also some MD schools you would never catch me at. Before you make generalizations it would behoove you to actually do the research because you really do have some misconceptions about what DO schools are all about.

 

[Barcu]

haha I am almost 28 years old..but nice try. I have been out of undergrad for 5 years and hold a graduate degree. Trust me...you are sadly mistaken if I care what some kid just out of mommy and daddys house thinks about me or my school. I have absolutely no issues with my school. You keep digging yourself deeper into your hole when you make statements like

A. I am going to have a hard time getting a residency
B. I am only going to go primary care.

Its 2010 bro...DOs arent just going into primary care anymore.

I'm a man! I'm 40!

Sorry Willen, but I had to throw that out there. Telling us about your qualifications doesn't make you sound more secure.

Anyways, old perceptions die hard. There are more and more DOs getting into competitive residencies for sure. However, if you don't really like the OMM deal, going DO is a much less attractive option for premeds. It just is, and it will be that way for a while. The only way to change it is for DO students to step up. And I'm not trying to say that isn't happening, but it will take a while. Defending your choice on SDN is just falling on deaf ears.

Getting back to the OP: I agree with the sentiment that having upperclassman there would be a good thing. Pretty much every med school has buddy systems, where students get advice, guidance, and even supplies from upperclassman. Being the first class I think would make the transition to medical school harder.

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

PCOMs match list is very impressive: http://www.pcom.edu/student_life/student_affairs_main/match_list.html
http://www.pcom.edu/student_life/student_affairs_main/match_2009_phl.html

PCOM is one of the top DO schools out there. You would be an idiot to discount it just for being a DO.

I think it is a given that DO students can definitely match into programs but "impressive" is relative. I went through the list and it appears that most of the hospitals are community based. That's fantastic if it's something that an applicant is looking for. As someone who is applying right now and only looking at MAJOR academic centers in a major metropolitan area, I would feel very uneasy if my school's prior match lists are like the examples above . There is ABSOLUTELY a prejudice against DOs by certain major institutions. You can tell by the lack of DO interviewees and lack of DO residents in their program. A few programs are (or were) even explicit about it on their websites. I'm not trying to make a blanket statement on all programs but there is definitely a disadvantage if DO applicant is trying to go to top tier programs of their specialty. I don't make the rules and it's kind of a shame that it works out like that . I do think that is important for a pre-med applicant to at least consider that fact.

As for the OP, if you have no interest in OMM please do not apply to DO schools. To do so would be incredibly insulting to the program and you may very well take the spot of someone who DOES want to learn OMM. As for the new school bit, I believe Touro-College of Osteopathic Medicine is graduating their first class this year so there must be student applying for residency now. You may possibly want to get their perspective?

 

[willen101383]

I'm a man! I'm 40!

Sorry Willen, but I had to throw that out there. Telling us about your qualifications doesn't make you sound more secure.

Anyways, old perceptions die hard. There are more and more DOs getting into competitive residencies for sure. However, if you don't really like the OMM deal, going DO is a much less attractive option for premeds. It just is, and it will be that way for a while. The only way to change it is for DO students to step up. And I'm not trying to say that isn't happening, but it will take a while. Defending your choice on SDN is just falling on deaf ears.

Getting back to the OP: I agree with the sentiment that having upperclassman there would be a good thing. Pretty much every med school has buddy systems, where students get advice, guidance, and even supplies from upperclassman. Being the first class I think would make the transition to medical school harder.

Well I dont see these insulting comments coming from you, which I really do appreciate. I have accomplished a lot in my life and I am extremely proud of that. I have come back from a life threatening illness to attend, and succeed, in medical school. So when someone insults my accomplishments and decisions I dont take it very lightly...especially when that person holds insane misconceptions and makes completely uneducated statements. At any rate this thread is over for me.

 

[fahimaz7]

Thanks for providing me with one of the most *****ic statements I have ever read. Clearly you dont know anything about DO schools. 👎

I agree with his statement

 

[gravitywave]

a new program means that the charter class are curriculum guinea pigs. if i had a choice between PCOM and a new MD program, i'd lean towards PCOM. but these decisions should never be made in a vacuum - you'll always have other factors to consider, like location, cost, etc.

i don't know how much detail these new schools give people about the structure of the clerkship year, but at least with an established school you know what you're getting. the only real consideration for the preclinical time should be the grading structure (P/F >>>> ABCDF)

 

[SFO-IST]

I thought about it and edited my above post slightly. Yes, there are a few DO schools that are competitive but for the most part its just not true. There's just not really a basis for an argument that DO>MD, sorry. Most DO schools have lower stats compared to MD schools, which makes it more competitive to land a good residency. Like I said, I don't know which new MD school we're talking about, but based on the OP's original question of new MD vs. DO, any sane person would say new MD.

And shouldn't you be studying?

Many DO schools like PCOM, CCOM, Western, etc. have established rotations with huge hospitals that you do your rotations in. They have decades - and as a previous poster just said, sometimes over a century - of generating an alumni network that trusts the education given at the DO institution.

When you apply with your high board score and otherwise solid app to a competitive specialty, there stands a higher chance that a PD who is a DO or MD will pick the graduate from an institution he has experience with. The caliber of hospitals you rotate at will matter and the letters behind your name will not. Thinking that a DO school's acceptance average GPA is .1 or .2 points lower than an MD school is and therefore is a factor is like saying that med schools would influence their acceptance based on whether a candidate scored a 3.4 or 3.6 in high school.

Even if it's an unknown DO school and an unknown MD school, the Program Director will interview you and ask you to talk about your ROTATIONS. Were they inpatient or outpatient? Academic centers? How many patients did you see per day? etc. etc.

 

[fahimaz7]

I think it is unwise to think of D.O. schools as somehow being lesser then M.D. schools. I understand that some people really don't like the D.O. mantra and some people are all for it. As far as D.O. schools being less competitive for residency positions I don't understand where you get your understanding of this from. A D.O. with good grades and a great COMPLEX scores is just as likely to get into M.D. residencies, especially if they took the USMLE as well. D.O.s are just as smart and well trained as M.D.s. It is all about the different philosophy and honestly that seems to be melting into the M.D.s as well.
As for me I would not be happy as D.O. or going to a D.O. school. I disagree with the Philosophy and the reasons why D.O. split off from M.D.s. There are also a few other things I did not like about a few D.O. schools I visited. I don't think D.O. are lesser physicians by any means just different and it is that difference that I feel is not right for me.
Don't dog on D.O.s as there are lots of reasons to go to a D.O. school over an M.D. just as there are lots of reasons to go to an M.D. school over a D.O..... Depends on the person.

Absolutely false. Sad but true.

 

[willen101383]

Absolutely false. Sad but true.

I too sir agree with you.

I dont have a problem with the fact that its harder to get a MD residency. Its an MD residency.....you need to cater to your own first.

However when the bias is based on the belief that MD students make superior physicians...it pisses me off

 

[Barcu]

Well I dont see these insulting comments coming from you, which I really do appreciate. I have accomplished a lot in my life and I am extremely proud of that. I have come back from a life threatening illness to attend, and succeed, in medical school. So when someone insults my accomplishments and decisions I dont take it very lightly...especially when that person holds insane misconceptions and makes completely uneducated statements. At any rate this thread is over for me.

Yeah, sorry if my joke was in bad taste. I just couldn't stop thinking about it.

I agree that there are many sweeping generalizations about MD vs. DO on here. It is a shame because I don't think DOs are any less qualified at all. I think the biggest problem is that there are really good DO schools out there, and some that many people have problems with. MD schools can usually be grouped together as pretty similar (I know there are exceptions and the top tier). However, DO schools seem to have a much wider range of quality. This really hurts the perception of DO students, which is unfair.

It is up to you DO students to end this debate, so good luck.

 

[fahimaz7]

I too sir agree with you.

I dont have a problem with the fact that its harder to get a MD residency. Its an MD residency.....you need to cater to your own first.

However when the bias is based on the belief that MD students make superior physicians...it pisses me off

That's not what this entire post is about. This post is about getting into residencies that are more competitive and having more doors open for a person. Even in this day of age, DO's are looked down upon by a lot of major institutions (and even more in private groups), and until that changes, you are closing doors with a DO degree that would have been open with a MD degree.

Example?

Private radiology group in Colorado Springs. They have 18 partners. They don't even interview DO graduates. Is that wrong? Sure is.. But it doesn't change the fact that it's the truth.

Does a radiologist at Mass Gen's program get better training than that of a DO community radiology program? Sure does.

 

[willen101383]

Yeah, sorry if my joke was in bad taste. I just couldn't stop thinking about it.

I agree that there are many sweeping generalizations about MD vs. DO on here. It is a shame because I don't think DOs are any less qualified at all. I think the biggest problem is that there are really good DO schools out there, and some that many people have problems with. MD schools can usually be grouped together as pretty similar (I know there are exceptions and the top tier). However, DO schools seem to have a much wider range of quality. This really hurts the perception of DO students, which is unfair.

It is up to you DO students to end this debate, so good luck.

No its fine....this **** just enrages me and sometimes I say things that I realize are stupid in retrospect. But thank you for your well thought out posts!

 

[fahimaz7]

Yeah, sorry if my joke was in bad taste. I just couldn't stop thinking about it.

I agree that there are many sweeping generalizations about MD vs. DO on here. It is a shame because I don't think DOs are any less qualified at all. I think the biggest problem is that there are really good DO schools out there, and some that many people have problems with. MD schools can usually be grouped together as pretty similar (I know there are exceptions and the top tier). However, DO schools seem to have a much wider range of quality. This really hurts the perception of DO students, which is unfair.

It is up to you DO students to end this debate, so good luck.

I take it you speak from a lot of personal experience, right? I bet you really get a taste of what these programs are like when you attended interviews this year..

lol

 

[willen101383]

That's not what this entire post is about. This post is about getting into residencies that are more competitive and having more doors open for a person. Even in this day of age, DO's are looked down upon by a lot of major institutions (and even more in private groups), and until that changes, you are closing doors with a DO degree that would have been open with a MD degree.

Example?

Private radiology group in Colorado Springs. They have 18 partners. They don't even interview DO graduates. Is that wrong? Sure is.. But it doesn't change the fact that it's the truth.

Does a radiologist at Mass Gen's program get better training than that of a DO community radiology program? Sure does.

I think people lose sight of the fact that most people arent trying to be some ace doc at mass general of BWH or something of that nature....although many of you will probably recall the boston med episode that featured a DO cardiologist @ MGH.

I have no interest in being some ivy leaguer. I want to go to a quality program and be a good doc who takes the time to listen to my patients. If some top academic MD programs shut me out on the basis of some letters...so be it. Elitist snobs like to be amongst their own anyway. Am I still going to be a good doc? I really hope so.

 

[Barcu]

I take it you speak from a lot of personal experience, right? I bet you really get a taste of what these programs are like when you attended interviews this year..

lol

What programs? DO?

I did not interview at any DO schools, only MD. However, I have talked to DO students and DOs. That certainly doesn't make me an expert but that is what I have heard.

 

[fahimaz7]

I think people lose sight of the fact that most people arent trying to be some ace doc at mass general of BWH or something of that nature....although many of you will probably recall the boston med episode that featured a DO cardiologist @ MGH.

I have no interest in being some ivy leaguer. I want to go to a quality program and be a good doc who takes the time to listen to my patients. If some top academic MD programs shut me out on the basis of some letters...so be it. Elitist snobs like to be amongst their own anyway. Am I still going to be a good doc? I really hope so.

And you can't assume that they don't. This is SDN, have you forgotten that? I have no idea what I want to do, but I do know that I don't want to close doors before I can open them. I work my ass off in school to get good grades (3.92 as a MS2), and I will put in equal effort to get a good step 1 score. Why? So I can hopefully match into the residency that I want to, in the location that I want to, wherever that may be when the time comes. If I had no care as to where I wanted to practice, or I knew I wanted to own my own practice, it would't make a bit of difference to me if I had a DO or an MD. I know people that prefer to see DO's (for whatever reason that is). But..

If I would have gone DO, and I wanted to be a radiologist in Colorado, I wouldn't ever have the opportunity to even live in that city. Seeing the point now? Sad thing is, RMVCOM rotates their students through Colorado Springs, and they will get no love when they get done (in this particular practice)

 

[fahimaz7]

What programs? DO?

I did not interview at any DO schools, only MD. However, I have talked to DO students and DOs. That certainly doesn't make me an expert but that is what I have heard.

So basically you have no idea what you are talking about, and you can't comment on the MD or the DO curriculum at this time.

Medical education isn't some holy grail of information that only a select few programs have. It's all the same ****, presented at some point in time during the school year, regardless of where you go. Why does one school have higher board scores than another? Pick from below...

1. School requires students to attend a USMLE prep course.
2. School has very motivated students, who take it seriously, and continue to work hard for the entire two years leading up to their step exam.

There are a higher population of motivated students at the more "difficult" schools to get in to. It's why they have higher step scores.