Would you rather be treated by a high crystallized intelligence, lower emotional intelligence doctor or vice versa?

[and 99 others]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I'm talking someone with an almost encyclopedic knowledge of disease and physiology but only exhibits a moderate amount of concern or compassion vs. someone who is incredibly in-tune with your emotions and is able to truly understand and comfort you but has only a moderate amount of clinical knowledge. Note that in either case, the lesser characteristic isn't nonexistent or abnormally deficient; it is present at the minimum levels expected of a doctor.

 

[907914]

I'm talking someone with an almost encyclopedic knowledge of disease and physiology but only exhibits a moderate amount of concern or compassion vs. someone who is incredibly in-tune with your emotions and is able to truly understand and comfort you but has only a moderate amount of clinical knowledge. Note that in either case, the lesser characteristic isn't nonexistent or abnormally deficient; it is present at the minimum levels expected of a doctor.

I would rather have a correct diagnosis than a compassionate yet incompetent individual. Although, studies show that this is in the minority of opinions. Most people would rather feel like they are being listened to than have someone who is more correct.

 

[Seihai]

I'm talking someone with an almost encyclopedic knowledge of disease and physiology but only exhibits a moderate amount of concern or compassion vs. someone who is incredibly in-tune with your emotions and is able to truly understand and comfort you but has only a moderate amount of clinical knowledge. Note that in either case, the lesser characteristic isn't nonexistent or abnormally deficient; it is present at the minimum levels expected of a doctor.

What's your intention in asking this question? I can't see this discussion being objective or productive, as research into this question is largely bipolar (primarily because defining a "better doctor" is difficult as metrics are often skewed one way or the other).

Why exactly is it assumed that having a high emotional intelligence precludes having strong academic rigor? Deficiencies in either of these traits are already selected against, not only in the process of admissions, but also in the process of medical education.

 

[and 99 others]

I would rather have a correct diagnosis than a compassionate yet incompetent individual. Although, studies show that this is in the minority of opinions. Most people would rather feel like they are being listened to than have someone who is more correct.

I specifically mentioned that neither is incompetent, just that their strengths lie in different areas. Which one can provide better care is up for debate.

What's your intention in asking this question? I can't see this discussion being objective or productive, as research into this question is largely bipolar (primarily because defining a "better doctor" is difficult as metrics are often skewed one way or the other).

Why exactly is it assumed that having a high emotional intelligence precludes having strong academic rigor? Deficiencies in either of these traits are already selected against, not only in the process of admissions, but also in the process of medical education.

It's not meant to be objective. This is an online forum, not a nationwide statistical analysis. It's meant to spark discussion and get different perspectives.

And the only one who assumed that having a high EI precludes strong IQ is you. I posed a hypothetical, not a commentary on the actual spread of doctors.

 

[907914]

I specifically mentioned that neither is incompetent, just that their strengths lie in different areas. Which one can provide better care is up for debate.

To me, the "minimum expected" is a low hurdle to clear. We must just have different 'minimum expectations.' On that note, however, I still would say high 'IQ' (if that means better clinical prowess? better clinical judgement?) as opposed to emotional intelligence matters most for the delivery of proper care to the patient. Less mistakes will be made, shorter turnaround time due to less "troubleshooting and monitoring." However, 'EQ' has its place as well, as the majority of patients are more likely to listen to their physician if they feel listened to and cared for.

Tl;dr - Both matter, but if we are saying they are goodn'uff in the other, then I would say 'IQ' matters more.

 

[dr_kateb]

Depends on the severity of what I hypothetically have.

 

[Lawpy]

I struggle to understand SDN's obsession with IQ and EQ being opposites rather than complements. It's basically just a rehash of the competency vs empathy debate which never made any sense to me.

 

[907914]

I interpreted as fluid intelligence and ability to make clinical judgement as opposed to crystallized intelligence. If it is just facts and knowledge then I agree 100% with you. If it is “ability to think” then I am sticking with IQ>EQ

 

[and 99 others]

I interpreted as fluid intelligence and ability to make clinical judgement as opposed to crystallized intelligence. If it is just facts and knowledge then I agree 100% with you. If it is “ability to think” then I am sticking with IQ>EQ

I mean I did define the "high IQ" aspect as an "almost encyclopedic knowledge of disease and physiology" so yeah, crystallized intelligence was more what I was going for. I figured that phrasing of IQ vs EI would be the most readily understood by most across this forum.

I struggle to understand SDN's obsession with IQ and EQ being opposites rather than complements. It's basically just a rehash of the competency vs empathy debate which never made any sense to me.

The question is not meant to suggest that the two are mutually exclusive. This is just an easy way to incorporate the two ideas in such a way that is amenable to starting a discussion about their place in medicine and where one may not be enough while the other is necessary.

 

[Pagan FutureDoc]

Even if I was to ascribe to your ideas about IQ and EQ different specialties need different strength. What someone needs in a PCP is vastly different from what someone needs from a speciality surgeon who will turn over care after surgery to an internist.

 

[and 99 others]

Even if I was to ascribe to your ideas about IQ and EQ different specialties need different strength. What someone needs in a PCP is vastly different from what someone needs from a speciality surgeon who will turn over care after surgery to an internist.

Yes, I agree but does this make it ok for a surgeon to be lacking in interpersonal skills just bc the brunt of his/her work is in the OR?

 

[Select All That Apply]

Yes, I agree but does this make it ok for a surgeon to be lacking in interpersonal skills just bc the brunt of his/her work is in the OR?

Yes.

Patients and their families when it comes to things like surgery are results oriented, not process oriented. There is a pre-op and a post-op team who should absorb the majority of inane patient care concerns. Surgeons should be talking to the family before a procedure and obtaining consent, but this does not mean that they have to perform an Oscar award winning HCAHPS performance.

"Do you want your Q2H Dilaudid now? Okay, here you go. Still in pain? You want some of that Q4H Morphine? Okay. Oh you're no longer in pain? Reporting a 0 out of 10 after a AAA, I'm so happy you're happy. Oh, your respirations are dropping. Time to get the Narcan... Do you want your Q2H Dilaudid now?"

 

[and 99 others]

Yes.

Patients and their families when it comes to things like surgery are results oriented, not process oriented. There is a pre-op and a post-op team who should absorb the majority of direct patient care concerns.

"Do you want your Q2H Dilaudid now? Okay, here you go. Still in pain? You want some of that Q4H Morphine? Okay. Oh you're no longer in pain? Reporting a 0 out of 10 after a AAA, I'm so happy you're happy. Oh, your respirations are dropping. Time to get the Narcan... Do you want your Q2H Dilaudid now?"

Yeah i totally disagree with this. The process can be agonizing and even in cases where a surgery has a high likelihood of no complications, people often don't respond well to flat statistics, even if they are positive and especially not if they are negative. Emotions take over in situations like that and rationality takes a back seat. On the path to surgery, the surgeon is a huge part of preparing the patient and is understandably seen as a beacon for the patient, so the surgeon has a lot of influence on the patients demeanor before and after surgery. You may say that what the patient is feeling is tangential to the outcome of the surgery but that is 1) untrue; emotional state is pretty heavily linked to health outcomes and 2) suggests that one is not a great doctor, since physical wellbeing shouldn't be their only consideration, at least in my view.

 

[Osminog]

I'm talking someone with an almost encyclopedic knowledge of disease and physiology but only exhibits a moderate amount of concern or compassion

Intelligence (as measured by IQ) and knowledgeableness are two separate qualities. Intelligence relates to information processing/problem-solving ability, not the breadth of your technical knowledge.

 

[and 99 others]

Intelligence (as measured by IQ) and knowledgeableness are two separate qualities. Intelligence relates to information processing/problem-solving ability, not the breadth of your technical knowledge.

In medicine, I'd argue that technical knowledge is pretty integral to problem solving ability. On a disease-process level at least.

But I understand how IQ can be misleading in the context of this question. I'll edit to replace IQ with crystalized knowledge.

 

[Select All That Apply]

Yeah i totally disagree with this. The process can be agonizing and even in cases where a surgery has a high likelihood of no complications, people often don't respond well to flat statistics, even if they are positive and especially not if they are negative. Emotions take over in situations like that and rationality takes a back seat. On the path to surgery, the surgeon is a huge part of preparing the patient and is understandably seen as a beacon for the patient, so the surgeon has a lot of influence on the patients demeanor before and after surgery. You may say that what the patient is feeling is tangential to the outcome of the surgery but that is 1) untrue; emotional state is pretty heavily linked to health outcomes and 2) suggests that one is not a great doctor, since physical wellbeing shouldn't be their only consideration, at least in my view.

I'm sorry I do not understand what point you are trying to make to me. Can you be more direct? I hate circular conversations. If you disagree, then can you follow that with your own opinion instead of going into a psychological perspective on what you learned from Maslow's Hierarchy in Psych 101. Thanks.

 

[and 99 others]

I'm sorry I do not understand what point you are trying to make to me. Can you be more direct?

That patients and families are heavily process-oriented, not just results-oriented, when it comes to surgery. And that the surgeon is part of the pre- and post-op teams that absorb the majority of patient concerns. Thus, in most cases, I don't think it is justifiable that a surgeon have poor interpersonal skills.

 

[deleted927529]

Not that I accept the premise of the question--Previous replies seem to me to be focused on one-time diagnostic "What do I got, doc?" or surgical visits when most patients are people with chronic illness who are seeking the best possible treatment over a long period of time. There's a point where there's no more diagnosing to be done and a doctor is meant to just care for their patient and make sure they're doing well each year! Do you want a lifelong relationship with a doctor who cares more about how effective a biologic is than they do about your life?

 

[Select All That Apply]

That patients and families are heavily process-oriented, not just results-oriented, when it comes to surgery. And that the surgeon is part of the pre- and post-op teams that absorb the majority of patient concerns. Thus, in most cases, I don't think it is justifiable that a surgeon have poor interpersonal skills.

You're wrong. Patients are results oriented when it comes to surgery.

It's why surgical specialties see the highest malpractice rates when patients have to see their loved ones have to go under the knife. Medscape reported in 2017 that the top 10 specialties for lawsuits were G. Surg, OBGYN, Otolaryngology, Urology, Ortho, Plastics, Rads, ER, Gastro, Anesthesiology. Specialists were more likely to be named in a lawsuit than primary care physicians.

The top 5 reasons for why lawsuits occurred were:
1. Failure to diagnose
2. Complications from treatment/surgery
3. Poor outcome/disease progression
4. Failure to treat
5. Wrongful death

50% of physicians felt that there was no trigger with 90% feeling that the actual lawsuit had no merit with a majority of lawsuit cases resulting in a settlement and 68% of cases resulting in a settlement of up to $500,000.

 

[piii]

Wtf is “crystallized” intelligence

 

[and 99 others]

You're wrong. Patients are results oriented when it comes to surgery.

It's why surgical specialties see the highest malpractice rates when patients have to see their loved ones have to go under the knife. Medscape reported in 2017 that the top 10 specialties for lawsuits were G. Surg, OBGYN, Otolaryngology, Urology, Ortho, Plastics, Rads, ER, Gastro, Anesthesiology. Specialists were more likely to be named in a lawsuit than primary care physicians.

The top 5 reasons for why lawsuits occurred were:
1. Failure to diagnose
2. Complications from treatment/surgery
3. Poor outcome/disease progression
4. Failure to treat
5. Wrongful death

50% of physicians felt that there was no trigger with 90% feeling that the actual lawsuit had no merit with a majority of lawsuit cases resulting in a settlement and 68% of cases resulting in a settlement of up to $500,000.

I disagree. Just because surgical specialties have higher litigation rates does not mean that it is because the patients are focused solely on the result. In fact, there is a ton of research that has shown that patients who feel that their concerns were listened to and taken seriously are less likely to litigate, even in the cases of your list of 5 reasons.

 

[and 99 others]

Wtf is “crystallized” intelligence

LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You

For all those people who find it more convenient to bother you with their question rather than to Google it for themselves.

lmgtfy.com

 

[Select All That Apply]

@and 99 others You should actually answer that question. It's what an attentive future care provider would do.

 

[and 99 others]

@and 99 others You should actually answer that question. It's what an attentive future care provider would do.

Not to worry, I've seen many a surgeon google things for their patients right in front of them.