Would you work for Amazon for $90k?

[wagrxm2000]

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So if (when) Amazon enters the pharmacy world and offers a starting salary of $90k with the Amazon/Berkshire/JP Morgan health care and bad 401k ( I think it's 50% for 4% of salary) would you take it?

So many here complain about bad working conditions and living in undesirable locations. Now you can live anywhere in the state and have a remote position.

Who takes it?

 

[johnpharm01]

I would. Especially if it came with a free Amazon Prime membership. Any remote position is great. Don't have to dress up, don't have to deal with shop politics, don't have to fight traffic or deal with bad weather. Plus Amazon is a healthy company with only Alibaba to worry about while wags, cvs and others have a lot more to worry about.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I would. Especially if it came with a free Amazon Prime membership. Any remote position is great. Don't have to dress up, don't have to deal with shop politics, don't have to fight traffic or deal with bad weather. Plus Amazon is a healthy company with only Alibaba to worry about while wags, cvs and others have a lot more to worry about.

So I guess I offered too much salary.

Make it 80k and you get Amazon prime.

Being at the end of my career, I would probably take any salary if I wanted to continue working after retiring from retail.

 

[Digsbe]

For 40 hours a week? No. I'd rather work at one of the chains/health systems that cut pharmacists to 32 hours and make the same amount.

 

[Amphetamine Salts]

working for amazon sounds like a good gig. they are a behemoth and seems like a good company to be a part of. i would consider it

 

[johnpharm01]

Make $75 k a year and I am still in. Especially if the workload is more reasonable then retail and the hours are better. It would be a good time for a pharmacy competitor to come to market because of the great availability of labor nationwide. For those who wouldn't accept lower wages they are going there anyway.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Might as well take the pay cut of $30-40k from retail for the better quality of life. I do not like the idea of contributing to the lowering of salaries by accepting such a position but the direction is likely going to head that way in any case with the saturation. If I don't take the $80k then a new grad will especially if they have no other choices.

 

[acslater99]

Didn't Amazon just back out from pharmaceuticals a couple months back?

 

[Swishers]

I would. Especially if it came with a free Amazon Prime membership. Any remote position is great. Don't have to dress up, don't have to deal with shop politics, don't have to fight traffic or deal with bad weather. Plus Amazon is a healthy company with only Alibaba to worry about while wags, cvs and others have a lot more to worry about.

Amazon Prime is like $120 a year max. So how is free Prime supposed to be a good selling point? lol I wouldn't take a massive pay cut to go work at a slow independent pharmacy even if they offered me a $200 Amazon gift card every year.

 

[PharFromNormal]

I would. Especially if it came with a free Amazon Prime membership. Any remote position is great. Don't have to dress up, don't have to deal with shop politics, don't have to fight traffic or deal with bad weather. Plus Amazon is a healthy company with only Alibaba to worry about while wags, cvs and others have a lot more to worry about.

Removing that $99/year expense really does it for you huh...

I’m not sure “healthy” is the way I’d put it. If wags, CVS and other’s didn’t care about profitability like amazon doesn’t I’d say they would be healthy as well. By the way I’m not anti amazon in the slightest...

 

[wagrxm2000]

Didn't Amazon just back out from pharmaceuticals a couple months back?

Yes but this industry is too juicy for them not to get in.

They have the system in place, it's only a matter of time. I give it up to five year max before it's announced.

 

[deleted103644]

Y’all should probably read about what it is like to work for Amazon first.

They’ve basically made getting the most out of their workers a science, and it is not to the benefit of the employees.

The warehouse people have the worst horror stories, but the engineers also have very high expectations.

I would not expect Amazon to offer pharmacists any job opportunities that would be appealing to the “about to retire” crowd, unless they are using you to train AI to replace all of you.

 

[owlegrad]

working for amazon sounds like a good gig. they are a behemoth and seems like a good company to be a part of. i would consider it

Lol what about working for Amazon sounds good? Literally just google “working for amazon” and see what kind of stories you get.

 

[Amphetamine Salts]

Lol what about working for Amazon sounds good? Literally just google “working for amazon” and see what kind of stories you get.

i don't know, it just sounds good

can you imagine telling people you work for amazon as a pharmacist? most will think you're top dog, working for a giant such as amazon. it just adds to that level of social status you know what i mean? definitely a good selling point in the dating culture, networking culture, etc

 

[HandsomeVampire]

i google amazon warehouse worker stories. It sounds horrible

 

[johnpharm01]

Lol what about working for Amazon sounds good? Literally just google “working for amazon” and see what kind of stories you get.

The lunch break and regular breaks the rest is old hat. Anyone on this thread really thinks wags and cvs are any better?

 

[deleted103644]

Some key articles:

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/amazon/mc-allentown-amazon-complaints-20110917-story.html

During summer heat waves, Amazon arranged to have paramedics parked in ambulances outside, ready to treat any workers who dehydrated or suffered other forms of heat stress. Those who couldn't quickly cool off and return to work were sent home or taken out in stretchers and wheelchairs and transported to area hospitals. And new applicants were ready to begin work at any time.

I have a massive amount of respect for Amazon, but even the white collar jobs seem to be more than most people could take. And they treat the blue collar workers worse than the robots they are trying to train to replace them.

 

[owlegrad]

Some key articles:

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/amazon/mc-allentown-amazon-complaints-20110917-story.html



I have a massive amount of respect for Amazon, but even the white collar jobs seem to be more than most people could take. And they treat the blue collar workers worse than the robots they are trying to train to replace them.

Wow there is an employer who really cares. They actually arranged for medical care for the people they work to (almost) death. So motivational.

 

[owlegrad]

The lunch break and regular breaks the rest is old hat. Anyone on this thread really thinks wags and cvs are any better?

Well as much as I hate CVS I can't say that I ever had to leave in a stretcher. So yeah, I think anyone who thinks Amazon is going to be better than CVS/Wags is totally delusional.

Except for the free Prime, obviously that will be phat.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

I would do it

 

[gwarm01]

i don't know, it just sounds good

can you imagine telling people you work for amazon as a pharmacist? most will think you're top dog, working for a giant such as amazon. it just adds to that level of social status you know what i mean? definitely a good selling point in the dating culture, networking culture, etc

Eh, I don't know about that. I get a lot of social credit for working at a children's hospital, but it has never amounted to much aside from people having a high opinion of you. I'm at a point in my life where I don't care much about what anyone thinks of me, especially not for a 40-50k paycut.

 

[confettiflyer]

I’d do it and still pick up per diem shifts at the hospital. I could work remote from like 5am-noon then head into hospital work at like 1pm.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[PharmtoCS]

There might be some cushy clinical positions but those will probably the exception. The majority of pharmacists working for Amazon will likely be working in dispensing roles in poor conditions similar to or even alongside the rest of its warehouse workers. Their conditions will make positions at CVS seem like unicorn jobs.

 

[johnpharm01]

So good news the consensus is that confetti flyer, amphetamine salts and I will be the only applicants.

 

[6GodPharm]

I’ve made over 225k the three years i’ve been a RPH. Guess I would take it if I was in my 60’s I guess but right now HELL NO.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Bezos will probably work you harder than Merlo...y'all should probably think about what you are wishing for...

 

[Sabril]

my cousin worked for Amazon doing some sort of accounting jobs. I don't know much but I heard it was hard work, lot of abuse from the boss but the pay must be good because he lives in downtown Seattle supporting a child and a stay-at-home wife. I mean considering that he crunches numbers and has an MBA, there must be a good reason to stick with Amazon.

The problem is none of us know even if Amazon goes into pharmacy, is it in it for the long run, otherwise I think a lot more of us would jump ship even with less pay and the same amount of bs.

 

[deleted103644]

my cousin worked for Amazon doing some sort of accounting jobs. I don't know much but I heard it was hard work, lot of abuse from the boss but the pay must be good because he lives in downtown Seattle supporting a child and a stay-at-home wife. I mean considering that he crunches numbers and has an MBA, there must be a good reason to stick with Amazon.

The problem is none of us know even if Amazon goes into pharmacy, is it in it for the long run, otherwise I think a lot more of us would jump ship even with less pay and the same amount of bs.

Bezos has a well-deserved reputation for getting as much out of his workers as he can. Don’t see why pharmacists would be any different.

I would also assume Amazon would be using the experience as training data for automation of your profession.

Their combination of strengths makes them particularly well suited for that.

I’m not a pharmacist, so maybe I’m being a bit naive here, but what percentage of what you do could be completely automated?

I would think you’re in even more jeopardy than I am in radiology.

 

[Modest_anteater]

So if (when) Amazon enters the pharmacy world and offers a starting salary of $90k with the Amazon/Berkshire/JP Morgan health care and bad 401k ( I think it's 50% for 4% of salary) would you take it?

So many here complain about bad working conditions and living in undesirable locations. Now you can live anywhere in the state and have a remote position.

Who takes it?

I would work for 15K a year with Amazon as a PharmD. It would be worth it just to get Amazon on my resume. A company like that with huge brand name recognition would really help you with your future career. In fact I would be willing to work for free or heck. I hate to admit this. but I would actually pay them up to $20,000 USD a year for the privilege of working for such an awesome company.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I would work for 15K a year with Amazon as a PharmD. I would be worth it just to get Amazon on my resume. A company like that with huge brand name recognition would really help you with your future career. In fact I would be willing to work for free or heck. I hate to admit this. but I would actually pay them up to $20,000 USD a year for the privilege of working for such an awesome company.

Thank you for your response, you contribute so much here.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Bezos has a well-deserved reputation for getting as much out of his workers as he can. Don’t see why pharmacists would be any different.

I would also assume Amazon would be using the experience as training data for automation of your profession.

Their combination of strengths makes them particularly well suited for that.

I’m not a pharmacist, so maybe I’m being a bit naive here, but what percentage of what you do could be completely automated?

I would think you’re in even more jeopardy than I am in radiology.

Automation? You mean everything the techs do?

I guess I feel bad for them.

 

[Sabril]

Bezos has a well-deserved reputation for getting as much out of his workers as he can. Don’t see why pharmacists would be any different.

I would also assume Amazon would be using the experience as training data for automation of your profession.

Their combination of strengths makes them particularly well suited for that.

I’m not a pharmacist, so maybe I’m being a bit naive here, but what percentage of what you do could be completely automated?

I would think you’re in even more jeopardy than I am in radiology.

we are already well past the point of being jeopardized even at the time of little automation. I mean we were in trouble even back when we used to employ neanderthals as techs.

 

[deleted103644]

Automation? You mean everything the techs do?

I guess I feel bad for them.

What do you do that you don’t think can be automated?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

What do you do that you don’t think can be automated?

Literally everything could be automated with enough advancements in robotics and AI. And it probably will be eventually. Complete automation of the pharmacist is still decades away, though.

The software currently used can't really deal with drug-drug and drug-disease interactions very well. The degree of nuance needed to know what is a big problem and what isn't a big problem seems to allude even the best algorithms right now. Could this change? Of course. In fact, it probably will. But pharmacy still has a lot of "common sense" and science-as-an-art judgement calls that are needed that AI just can't handle right now without a human in the end making the final decision.

It would be amusing to see such a thing be attempted, though. Literally every other prescription would have the computer calling a physicians' office warning about a potentially dangerous interaction that isn't really a concern. I can just see the poor receptionists at the medical offices losing their **** when the CVS voice calls for the 50th time today. The stupid CVS voice on the other end of the line. Warning you about some nonsense that isn't a big deal. It would be amusing to see someone that isn't one of us get that thousand-yard stare when listening to that damned voice.

"One pharmacy call"

*shudders*

 

[deleted103644]

Literally everything could be automated with enough advancements in robotics and AI. And it probably will be eventually. Complete automation of the pharmacist is still decades away, though.

The software currently used can't really deal with drug-drug and drug-disease interactions very well. The degree of nuance needed to know what is a big problem and what isn't a big problem seems to allude even the best algorithms right now. Could this change? Of course. In fact, it probably will. But pharmacy still has a lot of "common sense" and science-as-an-art judgement calls that are needed that AI just can't handle right now without a human in the end making the final decision.

It would be amusing to see such a thing be attempted, though. Literally every other prescription would have the computer calling a physicians' office warning about a potentially dangerous interaction that isn't really a concern. I can just see the poor receptionists at the medical offices losing their **** when the CVS voice calls for the 50th time today. The stupid CVS voice on the other end of the line. Warning you about some nonsense that isn't a big deal. It would be amusing to see someone that isn't one of us get that thousand-yard stare when listening to that damned voice.

"One pharmacy call"

*shudders*

Do you flag which interactions are potentially harmful when you call about them? And I am assuming in this scenario that you are basically acting as a filter when these interaction warnings are automatically generated by your software? It’s not built into many products (yet), but this sounds very amenable to automation with more modern techniques (honestly even older ones would do a decent job). And if the human decisions are being tracked in any way you are generating a great dataset to do just that.

I’m assuming this isn’t what actually takes up the majority of your time though. What else would be hard to automate? I’ll apologize for my ignorance, the pharmacy was pretty much a black box for me that I only really interacted with for TPN orders, so I have no idea what you guys do on a day to day basis, even less so outpatient.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Do you flag which interactions are potentially harmful when you call about them? And I am assuming in this scenario that you are basically acting as a filter when these interaction warnings are automatically generated by your software? It’s not built into many products (yet), but this sounds very amenable to automation with more modern techniques (honestly even older ones would do a decent job). And if the human decisions are being tracked in any way you are generating a great dataset to do just that.

You already have several of the biggest companies in the world (Walmart, CVS, Walgreen, Cardinal, McKesson, etc) with fantastic resources trying to replace us and, thus, eliminate major labor costs and they freely admit that its not going to happen any time soon. Bezos is obviously good at the whole disrupting industries thing...but he's already given up on this one. Who knew health care could be this complicated.

I’m assuming this isn’t what actually takes up the majority of your time though. What else would be hard to automate? I’ll apologize for my ignorance, the pharmacy was pretty much a black box for me that I only really interacted with for TPN orders, so I have no idea what you guys do on a day to day basis, even less so outpatient.

You'd have to have a counseling robot sophisticated enough to take questions from a layman and give a response in layman's terms. A compounding robot. A pill counting robot. Another robot that restocks the other robots. A fantastically advanced software suite to do DUR. An insurance adjudicating robot that is going up against enemy robots at the PBMs that don't want to pay money and will be incentivized to muck everything up. A vaccine giving robot. probably other robots I'm not even considering right now.

That's a lot of robots.

At some point...pharmacists probably become the cheaper option...

 

[Modest_anteater]

Thank you for your response, you contribute so much here.

Thanks. I do take a lot out of my busy day to try to give back to the community when I can. You verbalizing your thanks really means a lot to me. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific problems.

 

[panasoniku]

Not sure where this love and admiration for Amazon is coming from. They work the white collar employees HARD. You'll have on-call 24/7 rotations. YOU DO NOT GET FREE PRIME MEMBERSHIP (it's only worth $120 anyways).

Their 401k cap is a 50% match of 2% of your salary.

 

[wagrxm2000]

What do you do that you don’t think can be automated?

You do realize everything can be automated right? There are literally robots that do surgeries.

Please don't belittle our profession.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Thanks. I do take a lot out of my busy day to try to give back to the community when I can. You verbalizing your thanks really means a lot to me. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific problems.

Hmm something tells me that will never happen.

 

[deleted103644]

You already have several of the biggest companies in the world (Walmart, CVS, Walgreen, Cardinal, McKesson, etc) with fantastic resources trying to replace us and, thus, eliminate major labor costs and they freely admit that its not going to happen any time soon. Bezos is obviously good at the whole disrupting industries thing...but he's already given up on this one. Who knew health care could be this complicated.



You'd have to have a counseling robot sophisticated enough to take questions from a layman and give a response in layman's terms.

Think a large percentage of these could be triaged by an automatic system. The hardest part of that is (as always), dealing with human stupidity. So combination of automation, human operator not requiring a pharmacist (maybe RN or non-clinical), and eventual triage to a pharmacist could reduce requirements for pharmacists doing this at least 90%, probably more.

A compounding robot.

This is the one thing I agree you probably will still be required to do for the near term, but what percentage of your time do most pharmacists do this?

A pill counting robot. Another robot that restocks the other robots.

Both of these already exist to some extent and are well within Amazon’s wheelhouse.

A fantastically advanced software suite to do DUR.

Again, this is already semi-automated and don’t think you have much protection against it becoming much more automated.

An insurance adjudicating robot that is going up against enemy robots at the PBMs that don't want to pay money and will be incentivized to muck everything up.

Expect this will become automated too, especially with centralized data.

A vaccine giving robot.

You’re joking, right? There are plenty of other providers who can already do this, no need for pharmacists, it was just a way to expand your scope. Would also be very easy to automate, but probably not cost efficient. Any NP can do this (even an RN with a prescription IIRC).

At some point...pharmacists probably become the cheaper option...

Aside from compounding, complex inpatient/oncology stuff, think you guys will be getting hit hard by automation in the near future.

Just like in my field, it will not replace all pharmacists, but will likely replace many.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Think a large percentage of these could be triaged by an automatic system. The hardest part of that is (as always), dealing with human stupidity. So combination of automation, human operator not requiring a pharmacist (maybe RN or non-clinical), and eventual triage to a pharmacist could reduce requirements for pharmacists doing this at least 90%, probably more.



This is the one thing I agree you probably will still be required to do for the near term, but what percentage of your time do most pharmacists do this?



Both of these already exist to some extent and are well within Amazon’s wheelhouse.



Again, this is already semi-automated and don’t think you have much protection against it becoming much more automated.



Expect this will become automated too, especially with centralized data.



You’re joking, right? There are plenty of other providers who can already do this, no need for pharmacists, it was just a way to expand your scope. Would also be very easy to automate, but probably not cost efficient. Any NP can do this (even an RN with a prescription IIRC).



Aside from compounding, complex inpatient/oncology stuff, think you guys will be getting hit hard by automation in the near future.

Just like in my field, it will not replace all pharmacists, but will likely replace many.

What's your point? There's going to come a point when practically everything is done by robots. Well except at Tesla, Elon already said humans are better.

The main purpose of pharmacists is to counsel, dispense medications appropriately, and verify techs enter scripts correctly. Obviously there is much more but this is the basics.

Like the above states, robots can't differentiate appropriate from inappropriate interactions. What's a robot going to do when a person comes in with say a rash? Is it going to give a survey? Have them choose a picture that best represents how their rash looks. It's 2018 and the automation still can't enter prescriptions correctly. I can't count the amount of times I've seen take one tablet by mouth once daily twice a day because the office sends it in wrong. The system doesn't know this. Don't you think by now it could? Are these simple fixes? If so why haven't they been fixed already.

I could go on and on about the many things that can't simply be automated but most importantly who will tell people where the restrooms are?

 

[gwarm01]

Think a large percentage of these could be triaged by an automatic system. The hardest part of that is (as always), dealing with human stupidity. So combination of automation, human operator not requiring a pharmacist (maybe RN or non-clinical), and eventual triage to a pharmacist could reduce requirements for pharmacists doing this at least 90%, probably more.



This is the one thing I agree you probably will still be required to do for the near term, but what percentage of your time do most pharmacists do this?



Both of these already exist to some extent and are well within Amazon’s wheelhouse.



Again, this is already semi-automated and don’t think you have much protection against it becoming much more automated.



Expect this will become automated too, especially with centralized data.



You’re joking, right? There are plenty of other providers who can already do this, no need for pharmacists, it was just a way to expand your scope. Would also be very easy to automate, but probably not cost efficient. Any NP can do this (even an RN with a prescription IIRC).



Aside from compounding, complex inpatient/oncology stuff, think you guys will be getting hit hard by automation in the near future.

Just like in my field, it will not replace all pharmacists, but will likely replace many.

The physical tasks in pharmacy are easily automated and are mostly handled by technicians anyway. It's the cognitive tasks that aren't so easy. Much of pharmacy consists of grey areas that require a judgement call, and the criteria for those judgements may change on a daily basis.

A pharmacist has to handle both clinical and administrative tasks, none of which are easy to automate today. It will take true AI with decision making abilities to replace us, although current tech does a great job of reducing the numbers needed.

 

[deleted103644]

You do realize everything can be automated right? There are literally robots that do surgeries.

Please don't belittle our profession.

I am not belittling your profession.

Not everything can be automated yet, but rest assured that if Amazon moves into your industry, what can will be.

I don’t want to start any fights about this, was genuinely interested in what you guys actually do and what you think cannot be automated.

Automation is coming for a lot of jobs, including my own. I wouldn’t expect a 30 year career if I were starting out in pharmacology (or radiology) now.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I am not belittling your profession.

Not everything can be automated yet, but rest assured that if Amazon moves into your industry, what can will be.

I don’t want to start any fights about this, was genuinely interested in what you guys actually do and what you think cannot be automated.

Automation is coming for a lot of jobs, including my own. I wouldn’t expect a 30 year career if I were starting out in pharmacology (or radiology) now.

You just have to realize saying your job can be automated makes it seem like you don't think our job has a purpose when in fact I believe it's actually the most important with safety in mind and a robot has a long way to go.

 

[lord999]

Working with Amazon on a project and finishing in March, I will never work for them again willingly. They paid far above industry rates (and they certainly had to after the first wave of consultants left), but none of the consultants that worked on the project left with good feelings with the management over regulatory concerns.

 

[gwarm01]

Working with Amazon on a project and finishing in March, I will never work for them again willingly. They paid far above industry rates (and they certainly had to after the first wave of consultants left), but none of the consultants that worked on the project left with good feelings with the management over regulatory concerns.

So.. think there will be work there next spring? Kidding, of course, because my next gig should last several years.

I guess I'm just as susceptible to the allure of a company like Amazon as anyone else. I'm just sorry to hear that higher level work like yours has to deal with the same shortcomings.

 

[lord999]

So.. think there will be work there next spring? Kidding, of course, because my next gig should last several years.

I guess I'm just as susceptible to the allure of a company like Amazon as anyone else. I'm just sorry to hear that higher level work like yours has to deal with the same shortcomings.

I think there's going to be some major work in Intersystems Healthshare as a middleware tier to interchange between different systems, and being the guy to build the pipeline from *insert your EMR here* (Cerner, Epic, Meditech, NextGen). I also think there is going to be quite a bit of work in fixing workflow and other design mistakes for different medical center's pharmacy and other package builds. Picking up some XML, JSON, and HL7 message construction would probably pay off.

Supply chain management and logistics is always a sure winner for an undecided MBA who wants to work in this field. There's always room for operations research to wring more productivity out of pharmacists.

 

[grizzlesgrizzlies]

i don't know, it just sounds good

can you imagine telling people you work for CVS as a pharmacist? most will think you're top dog, working for a giant such as CVS. it just adds to that level of social status you know what i mean?

sorry but I had to lol

 

[owlegrad]

Not sure where this love and admiration for Amazon is coming from. They work the white collar employees HARD. You'll have on-call 24/7 rotations. YOU DO NOT GET FREE PRIME MEMBERSHIP (it's only worth $120 anyways).

Their 401k cap is a 50% match of 2% of your salary.

Wait, no free prime membership? I'm out.

Edit: Who cares about the 401k match anyway? Apparently according to Dave Ramsey it is better not to contribute until you are debt free anyway.