WTF are the scores being posted here for real? compare w/ real stats from ADA

[hunterx2]

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I've noticed people are throwing around 24's like it's a common score, and I see quite a number of 25's and even 26 and 27. I'm sure that somebody has asked the question "why are there so many high scorers here at SDN" Invariably ppl respond by saying they represent the top x percent, that ppl who do well tend to come here and brag, and ppl who do poorly keep quiet.

I don't think people realize just how uncommon those kind of scores are. Look at the official statistics from the ADA

http://www.ada.org/sections/educationAndCareers/pdfs/dat_users_manual.pdf

on page 36 it actually gives each AA score from 1 to 30 and states the exact number of people in the entire country who got each score in 2009-2010. I'll reproduce the table for 24+ below:

Score: 24. #: 80
Score: 25. #: 31
Score: 26. #: 9
Score: 27. #: 3
Score: >27. #: 0

So basically only 80 people in the entire country got a 24. Only 3 got a 27, and nobody above that. Yet inexplicably just on the first page here 2 ppl posted with 25's and another with a 27 AA. The breakdown page (which admittedly reflects several years) http://forums.sdn.net/showthread.php?t=992975 is likewise very top heavy, so much so that half of 26's and mostly everybody with 27's in the whole country is posting breakdowns here, lol !!

Surely either 1)ppl are making things up, or 2) they are making the test easier (unlikely since it is constantly being curved and re-normed.) ????

Thoughts?

 

[Moka11]

Lol. Here's my day yesterday. I took the test and got a 20 AA and 21 TS. Went home, felt great, my family congratulates me. I log onto SDN and feel like s**t after reading 2 breakdowns.

 

[Blake1e]

I think its because the study materials are getting better.

 

[gn4]

yea. I think the material is just getting better at testing for people. It seems people are destroying these tests. A lot of people have provided pictures though. I don't think people are lying.

 

[cmF]

You're seeing way higher than average scores being posted on SDN? That's surprising 😛

 

[Hev0406]

Lol. Here's my day yesterday. I took the test and got a 20 AA and 21 TS. Went home, felt great, my family congratulates me. I log onto SDN and feel like s**t after reading 2 breakdowns.

Same here. Actually I really need to stop reading on SDN cause all it has done is absolutely destroy my confidence. Congrats to you on what I think is a fantastic score!

 

[Illfavor]

Yup, SDN is full of outliers. Most of the 20s or less are in the main predental thread. And there are WAY more of them than the 26+s. I think the people who score well post in here because they want others to score well.

 

[hunterx2]

You're seeing way higher than average scores being posted on SDN? That's surprising

I'm not saying that I'm surprised by the fact that ppl posting here are scoring higher than average, what I am surprised by is the fact that every week people are throwing out 25's when in fact only 31 ppl in the whole country got that score.

yea. I think the material is just getting better at testing for people. It seems people are destroying these tests.

Actually, that link I provided has stats from 2009 (most recent) but also 2004 and 1999. See page 23. Surely there have been more recent study materials available since 1999, but believe it or not, percentiles wise, it is actually tougher to achieve a given score in 1999 and 2004 compared to 2009 !!!

For example, a score of 21 in 2009 means that you did better than 95% of other test takers. But in 1999 you did better than only 92.9%. So if people are more prepared, that means that the test has gotten even more difficult, or the curve even more severe, in order to offset this. Otherwise, a score of 21 in 2009 would not be anything close to being in the 95th percentile.

 

[MedDevil]

It's not surprising at all that a large chunk of those that score 24+ are on SDN. A lot of the best test prep materials are the ones that the general pre-dent population doesn't know about. I've also noticed that the higher scores usually appear during the summer, for what it's worth.

 

[Hev0406]

I'm not saying that I'm surprised by the fact that ppl posting here are scoring higher than average, what I am surprised by is the fact that every week people are throwing out 25's when in fact only 31 ppl in the whole country got that score.



Actually, that link I provided has stats from 2009 (most recent) but also 2004 and 1999. See page 23. Surely there have been more recent study materials available since 1999, but believe it or not, percentiles wise, it is actually tougher to achieve a given score in 1999 and 2004 compared to 2009 !!!

For example, a score of 21 in 2009 means that you did better than 95% of other test takers. But in 1999 you did better than only 92.9%. So if people are more prepared, that means that the test has gotten even more difficult, or the curve even more severe, in order to offset this. Otherwise, a score of 21 in 2009 would not be anything close to being in the 95th percentile.

And two more just posted a breakdown of 27.....

 

[Glimmer1991]

hunterx2: Okay, to start, gonna be honest--the whole "people who do well are gonna come here and brag" thing is a bit abrasive. There are occasionally those who post their high scores without a breakdown, but I see TONS of 20-22 AA range scorers who just post their scores and say, "Oh yeah! I'm done!" and are clearly just fishing for compliments. If anything, I'd say the high scorers do MUCH more to help others by posting thorough breakdowns, sticking around to answer questions, giving qualified advice, etc.

Illfavor: I think it goes without saying that I agree with you. The high scorers wouldn't be sharing their advice--and literally helping their direct competition--unless they wanted to see others succeed as well. When I first came to this site, I was literally raked across the coals because of my high scores. People kept telling me to get them out of my signature because having them in their was "arrogant" and "intimidating," even though tons of people on this site keep their stats in their signature. These comments baffled me. I mean, seriously? If I were arrogant and only on here to brag, why in the WORLD would I be posting a breakdown and trying my hardest to give others good advice? Yeah, it doesn't make much sense to me, either.

I agree that my breakdown thread has a lot of high-scoring individuals. Compared to the official stats, it's certainly odd. I don't really think that people are lying. Instead, I think that "overachievers" (which is what the high-scorers are often called) are prone to try to find anything available to help them to prepare for the DAT, which would inevitably lead them to SDN. They're helped by the breakdowns they read, they do well, and then they want to give back. Plus, let's be honest here: I'm sure that inside of everyone, there's a desire to share their success with others who actually understand what they're doing and going through. If I told 99.9% of the people I knew that I made a 30TS on the DAT, they'd have absolutely no idea what they meant. Personally, I don't even have any other pre-dents at my school; I'm literally the only one. So, although I genuinely want to help others, it would be a lie to say that it isn't nice to be able to talk about my experiences with others who understand.

I think study materials are getting better. Chad, for one, has made the chemistry sections totally conquerable. Also, this website has made the test easier. Heck, you do a Google search or two for anything about the DAT and you'll have this site pop up in the results. I don't know how people can POSSIBLY study for the test and not run across this site. Literally, do they just not use the Internet?! It ain't like this site is hidden... it's way out there!

So, there ya go. My quick thoughts.

 

[Glimmer1991]

Oh, and as a note: I don't believe all of the high scores I read. Some of them are super sketchy... and a few of the recent ones fit this bill.

 

[yappy]

The scores on SDN do NOT represent the applying student body. No one at my UG, in the three years I was predental, received a score above 22. Most were in the 16-20 range. Also, on interviews I would hear students comparing scores (don't do this it's stupid) and most were in the 18-20 range. I think 22+ scores are rare and still very special.

 

[Ferneezy]

The scores on SDN do NOT represent the applying student body. No one at my UG, in the three years I was predental, received a score above 22. Most were in the 16-20 range. Also, on interviews I would hear students comparing scores (don't do this it's stupid) and most were in the 18-20 range. I think 22+ scores are rare and still very special.

this is knowledge.

and it's beyond my comprehension why prospective students would share their details and stats in person. just doesn't seem the smart thing to do at all.

 

[Blake1e]

this is knowledge.

and it's beyond my comprehension why prospective students would share their details and stats in person. just doesn't seem the smart thing to do at all.

Why do you think its bad to share details in person with other prospective students?

 

[Glimmer1991]

Why do you think its bad to share details in person with other prospective students?

Yeah, ditto on this question. I could see where it might be rude in some cases, but "beyond comprehension?" LOL! I offer up my scores if I am directly asked. I honestly think it is more rude/weird for someone to NOT answer if they're asked. However, I never ask others about their scores. I find that nosy. So, I agree that it's a slippery situation, but I still don't understand what about it is so appalling.

 

[gn4]

Glimmer, what are you doing up at 5 in the morning girl? it's the summer.

Anyway, I agree. I don't mind these people sharing their scores as long as there is a detailed breakdown that may help me. At the rate these people are getting these high scores right now, I feel like I should move my test up before the DAT gets harder. It seems easier right now with all these 27's that are coming out.

 

[Ferneezy]

Why do you think its bad to share details in person with other prospective students?

Yeah, ditto on this question. I could see where it might be rude in some cases, but "beyond comprehension?" LOL! I offer up my scores if I am directly asked. I honestly think it is more rude/weird for someone to NOT answer if they're asked. However, I never ask others about their scores. I find that nosy. So, I agree that it's a slippery situation, but I still don't understand what about it is so appalling.

i don't necessarily think it's bad. i feel one's personal stats are irrelevant to the application cycle or interview experience of another applicant.

i liken this to something universally frowned upon: discussing salary in the workplace. once people start discussing their numbers, chances are someone is going to feel bad about themselves, or feel superior/inferior to the other, or any host of emotional reactions that simply have no place in the interpersonal interactions of prospective applicants.

i'll never ask the question, but i'm sure some less than socially savvy applicant will put it to me or the interview group, and i would suggest sporting your strongest poker face and saying: "above average" or "competitive".

especially if you're a health professions urm.

 

[Glimmer1991]

Glimmer, what are you doing up at 5 in the morning girl? it's the summer.

Workin' 8 to 5, homie! At 11 bucks an hour, I'm making some dough. Well, at least it seems like it to me. 😀

i liken this to something universally frowned upon: discussing salary in the workplace. once people start discussing their numbers, chances are someone is going to feel bad about themselves, or feel superior/inferior to the other, or any host of emotional reactions that simply have no place in the interpersonal interactions of prospective applicants.

i'll never ask the question, but i'm sure some less than socially savvy applicant will put it to me or the interview group, and i would suggest sporting your strongest poker face and saying: "above average" or "competitive".

especially if you're a health professions urm.

Well, yeah, I think it's rude to ask and never do so myself. But every time I go to a NC Missions of Mercy event, the topic invariably gets brought up by other predents. If someone has the audacity to ask me, I tell them. If I am not DIRECTLY addressed, though, I won't say anything. I was in a group of predents once and they just kept raving on and on about how one girl was a "DAT queen" because of her 22AA. I just smiled and congratulated her. 🙂 I've also found that once I say my scores, the DAT score conversation usually stops. LOL, oh well! I always try to say them as humbly as possible. Also, I always phrase it something along the lines of, "I made a 26 and a 30 in my sciences. It took a whole lot of work, though, and I'd be happy to help with study materials if anyone wants some! It takes some trial and error to figure out what to use, and I think I finally narrowed it down to the best stuff." A few of them have literally gotten paper and written down what I said to study. So, even in real life, I don't just throw out my scores without offering to help. 🙂

Also, I understand the parallel with discussing salary. However, I think a DAT score is something that is much more in OUR hands than a salary would be. Your boss determines your salary. To a much greater extent, YOU determine your DAT scores. People are sometimes given an unfair salary, but it's hard to say that someone has an unfair score.

 

[Ferneezy]

Your boss determines your salary.

lol. no.

 

[Glimmer1991]

lol. no.

Well, I know I sure as heck don't determine mine, even though I work VERY hard! 😀 That's why a salary can be unfair. The final call isn't in your hands. You can be the best worker ever but have a penny-pinching boss who won't budge.

 

[hunterx2]

Glimmer- nah chill out, I definitely did not have you in mind when I said that some ppl come here and brag about their scores. I found your breakdowns to be pretty helpful and genuine. However, I am taking aim at people like these:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=1012951

who says he got a 27. I just find it pretty incredible when I see two such scores here on the very first page here when only 3 in the whole country scored that high in that recent study.

 

[tayloreve]

I totally understand where your coming from.

I scored a 20 AA and was pretty bummed because I've been a part of these forums for about 3 years.... and everyone on here seems to score like 23+. But I got over it when I realized that SDN members don't represent the majority of applicants. A 20 AA is good enough to get me in, and once your accepted, your DAT scores don't mean a thing! 🙂

 

[blankman321]

Glimmer- nah chill out, I definitely did not have you in mind when I said that some ppl come here and brag about their scores. I found your breakdowns to be pretty helpful and genuine. However, I am taking aim at people like these:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=1012951

who says he got a 27. I just find it pretty incredible when I see two such scores here on the very first page here when only 3 in the whole country scored that high in that recent study.

if you looked at that whole thread though, the person still hasnt posted a picture, despite some requests. If I got a 27 (I can guarantee that will never happen🙁), I would be glad to put my SDN screen name right beside the score report on the pic. besides lying (not saying the person is but its seems sketch so far) will catch up to you in dental school or in practice.