Yale (~$100k) v. Kaiser ($0)

[QueenParvarti]

Hey all, I narrowed down my decision to these two schools any input y'all have would be great. For background, I am from California originally and would like to end up back there. I am very much drawn to the financial freedom of Kaiser but want to be sure I am making the right choice. I am open to career paths but likely not going to stick with academic medicine for what it's worth.


Kaiser
Pros:
Cost= $0 (free tuition + living fees waiver)
-Weather
-Family close by
-More opportunities for leadership/founding of organizations
-more directed attention from faculty
-Want to match into California
-Have personal connections to Kaiser network
-Small class size
-New facilities

Neutral:
-being "guinea pigs", I'm ok with that given it is free
-Clinical appears to be structured as longitudinal integrated.

Cons:
-Risky to go for an entirely new program?
-Traffic
-More of a proximal con but I am not liking the idea of having to move cross-country on such short notice at this time of uncertainty (but I suppose if I want to be there eventually I'll have to do it some time or another)

Yale
Cost=100,000 in loans over four years
Pros:
-Name recognition
-Yale system
-Already has student groups/free clinics established
-Have a few friends in grad school @ Yale, so I would have some support
-Easier transition (Not having to move across the country in a few months)
-Have professional connections (current mentor previously worked at YSM)

Neutral:
-Larger class size

Cons:
-Four more years on the east coast
-Coldddddddddd
-CT is meh

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[TheDataKing]

Yale is the better option for academia, networking, etc. I'd rather not be the guinea pig of a class and Yale has that name brand recognition that will get you wherever you want to be. I'd personally vote for Yale even though you'd be dealing with 100k of debt (that's at least 50% less than the average student's debt so that's a positive at least 🙂 )

 

[efle]

For 100? Yale

 

[meronebib]

I’d pick Kaiser. You said you want to match into California—everyone in California knows what Kaiser is. You will not have any problems and will likely be guaranteed into any of their own residency programs. Not to mention it’s also cheaper and in a significantly better location than New Haven.

 

[talkeetnadenali]

Kaiser seems like the better option by far based on your post, which seems to me like: being close to family, saving $100k+, able to network in the state you’d like to do residency in vs. prestige (which doesn’t seem to add that much more value based on your goals).

However, I’m biased as I have decided to pick KP over an ivy as well.

An important thing to keep in mind is that hardly anyone knows anything about Kaiser’s med school and to them it’s as simple as a debt free new school vs. a prestigious established school. Only those who are accepted and attended the post-accepted virtual events really know what the school is all about, especially in regards to faculty, curriculum, and opportunities. This should give you some confidence and peace of mind in trusting your own judgment and intuition, as whichever decision you decide to make is well-informed. Hope this helps!

 

[Engrailed]

Yale. Has history and a "proven track record" so to speak.
Kaiser is an excellent school but for $100K, the difference is worth it.

 

[imbesrs]

Yale

 

[Newyawk]

Depends how likely you will be to choose a competitive residency and how much you care for that residency to be a competitive program. Yale will open doors for you bc it has the research advantage and the name.

 

[Pluto98]

For 100? Yale

I am surprised you of all people would vote for the school that is 100k more expensive!

 

[Ligament]

Kaiser will 100% turn you into a lemming. The Kaiser system is full of lazy people who make money off of denying healthcare to their captive patients. I have dozens per month escaping the Kaiser system. They universally hate it.
Yale will 85% turn you into a lemming. Small chance you will not be a robot when you graduate. Seems possible. Could make good connections.

No education is worth $100,000 however.

 

[utangboy123]

I am choosing KP over my other 2 “more prestigious” options! Feel free to DM + connect with me and I would love to share some of my thoughts 🙂

 

[talkeetnadenali]

Kaiser will 100% turn you into a lemming. The Kaiser system is full of lazy people who make money off of denying healthcare to their captive patients. I have dozens per month escaping the Kaiser system. They universally hate it.
Yale will 85% turn you into a lemming. Small chance you will not be a robot when you graduate. Seems possible. Could make good connections.

No education is worth $100,000 however.

Genuinely curious, would you mind elaborating?
Just my own experience, but throughout my life I’ve received care from private practices via PPO, at the teaching hospital of a top 5 med school via student insurance, and Kaiser under their HMO - as a patient I’ve greatly preferred Kaiser and have never felt captive. Most Kaiser docs I know seem quite happy and enjoy being able to practice without having to worry about what procedures/meds their patients cannot afford. Some KP docs I’ve talked with have faculty roles at places like UCSF and UCLA and they enjoy academic involvement as well. Of course I can’t generalize this experience to everyone or all KP docs.
What I appreciate about the school is that it is a separate entity and none of the major faculty/deans are even from the KP organization.
Curious to hear more about what you mentioned.

 

[Pluto98]

Genuinely curious, would you mind elaborating?
Just my own experience, but throughout my life I’ve received care from private practices via PPO, at the teaching hospital of a top 5 med school via student insurance, and Kaiser under their HMO - as a patient I’ve greatly preferred Kaiser and have never felt captive. Most Kaiser docs I know seem quite happy and enjoy being able to practice without having to worry about what procedures/meds their patients cannot afford. Some KP docs I’ve talked with have faculty roles at places like UCSF and UCLA and they enjoy academic involvement as well. Of course I can’t generalize this experience to everyone or all KP docs.
What I appreciate about the school is that it is a separate entity and none of the major faculty/deans are even from the KP organization.
Curious to hear more about what you mentioned.

Yea interesting perspective. Not sure why either would turn you into a lemming

 

[Yhwach]

Yale easily. 100k is nothing for med school also the Yale system is unmatched.

 

[Klyx]

Yale is more likely to keep more options on the table with regard to competitive specialties since it is well established. Not saying that Kaiser can't, but Yale is lower risk. However, if you hate the cold and the East Coast and are fine going right into practice after residency, and if you're not too picky about your specialty, Kaiser does seem like an excellent choice for you. Up to you to decide how much you are willing to pay for the prestige and the "insurance" of going to Yale.

 

[birdred23]

I think it depends on the if you want to go into a super competitive especially, if that is the case I would say Yale. If not, I would suggest Kaiser, based on the close proximity to your family, completely free education (huge perk) and your connections to the Kaiser system

 

[Skittsie13]

An important thing to keep in mind is that hardly anyone knows anything about Kaiser’s med school and to them it’s as simple as a debt free new school vs. a prestigious established school. Only those who are accepted and attended the post-accepted virtual events really know what the school is all about, especially in regards to faculty, curriculum, and opportunities. This should give you some confidence and peace of mind in trusting your own judgment and intuition, as whichever decision you decide to make is well-informed. Hope this helps!

I mean... that means PDs don't know anything about Kaiser as well. In the era of P/F Step 1 that's a huge con imo

 

[nymedschoolfan]

No one knows anything about how the quality of education will be at Kaiser. Yes they have recruited faculty from prestigious schools but that doesn't mean Kaiser will become anything close to Yale overnight. A new curriculum is at an established school like UCSF is already a pain let alone a new school.

 

[Nerdanese]

Yale, $100k can be paid off fast and is well worth the connections you will make at Yale. Also, the yale system is great

 

[talkeetnadenali]

I mean... that means PDs don't know anything about Kaiser as well. In the era of P/F Step 1 that's a huge con imo

True for now, but there will be 3 years for PDs to learn more about KP as faculty make more connections and it begins to establish itself as a school that is attracting competitive applicants away from top institutions. KP’s reputation will depend on how the first class matches, seeing how they’ve already invested so much in students (full CoA scholarships to everyone), it seems likely they’ll invest significantly in connecting with PDs.

But you’re right that students choosing to go there are trailblazing and it comes with a degree of risk not associated with established schools, especially excellent institutions like Yale.

 

[Lawpy]

Yale wins. I don't know why Kaiser is overhyped on SDN but they're doing something right to try to poach top students despite being new.

 

[nymedschoolfan]

True for now, but there will be 3 years for PDs to learn more about KP as faculty make more connections and it begins to establish itself as a school that is attracting competitive applicants away from top institutions. KP’s reputation will depend on how the first class matches, seeing how they’ve already invested so much in students (full CoA scholarships to everyone), it seems likely they’ll invest significantly in connecting with PDs.

But you’re right that students choosing to go there are trailblazing and it comes with a degree of risk not associated with established schools, especially excellent institutions like Yale.

Are the majority of kaiser admits really choosing to go to kaiser over yale/harvard/penn/etc. or is this a small minority? I find this hard to believe but if it is true... they are selling the school very well. It seems like people from well off backgrounds having to pay full sticker price for Harvard vs full COA Kaiser have quite the dilemma..

 

[talkeetnadenali]

Are the majority of kaiser admits really choosing to go to kaiser over yale/harvard/penn/etc. or is this a small minority? I find this hard to believe but if it is true... they are selling the school very well. It seems like people from well off backgrounds having to pay full sticker price for Harvard vs full COA Kaiser have quite the dilemma..

Probably more so that those accepted but are not considering KP aren’t as vocal as those who are, but who knows.

 

[lanzhou_lamian]

Are the majority of kaiser admits really choosing to go to kaiser over yale/harvard/penn/etc. or is this a small minority? I find this hard to believe but if it is true... they are selling the school very well. It seems like people from well off backgrounds having to pay full sticker price for Harvard vs full COA Kaiser have quite the dilemma..

I'd say it's more common than not. The Kaiser admits have had a number of Zoom calls regarding final school decisions, and a lot of people seem to be in this situation of Kaiser v. Top 20.

 

[proudofmykids]

Are the majority of kaiser admits really choosing to go to kaiser over yale/harvard/penn/etc. or is this a small minority? I find this hard to believe but if it is true... they are selling the school very well. It seems like people from well off backgrounds having to pay full sticker price for Harvard vs full COA Kaiser have quite the dilemma..

Being that you are quite familiar with Kaiser, Columbia, and Cornell, if you needed full loans (no need-based aid), which would you have chosen?

 

[nymedschoolfan]

Being that you are quite familiar with Kaiser, Columbia, and Cornell, if you needed full loans (no need-based aid), which would you have chosen?

This is a very personal decision, I would choose Columbia or Cornell as I'm interested in surgical subspecialty but if I wasn't I'd go to Kaiser. There's no wrong answer and your kid should talk to people who have chosen Kaiser and people who have also turned down Kaiser.