Yale and Hopkins

[TPROrgoTutor]

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For some reason I overlooked both of these schools when I initially submitted my app. I realize its late in the process, and my stats are by no means perfect (see link in sig), but would it be a complete waste of money for me to apply? Problem is I have basically run out of money and am having to pick up a second job right now in addition to everything else in order to fund my interview trips. Would it be worth it to apply to these or should I just accept that I wont be attending either?

Please no insults, comments about my intelligence, or anything along those lines. Just looking for some advice from people that know more about the process than I do. Thanks in advance.

 

[Mr. Tee]

Yale is non-rolling so I personally think it would be okay if you started the secondary now and submitted it soon.

Hopkins is rolling, but they just now started to mail out interview invites. I don't think it's too late, per se, so if you had the resources I'd give it a shot.

 

[TPROrgoTutor]

Yale is non-rolling so I personally think it would be okay if you started the secondary now and submitted it soon.

Hopkins is rolling, but they just now started to mail out interview invites. I don't think it's too late, per se, so if you had the resources I'd give it a shot.

Just looked at your stats. If you are my competition at these schools I may as well give up now and not pay the fees! Good work during undergrad 👍

But my car is still faster than your M!

 

[Mr. Tee]

Just looked at your stats. If you are my competition at these schools I may as well give up now and not pay the fees! Good work during undergrad 👍

But my car is still faster than your M!

Well I haven't submitted the Yale app so I may be biased 😛

I don't have an M....maybe one day.

 

[Guile]

For some reason I overlooked both of these schools when I initially submitted my app. I realize its late in the process, and my stats are by no means perfect (see link in sig), but would it be a complete waste of money for me to apply? Problem is I have basically run out of money and am having to pick up a second job right now in addition to everything else in order to fund my interview trips. Would it be worth it to apply to these or should I just accept that I wont be attending either?

Please no insults, comments about my intelligence, or anything along those lines. Just looking for some advice from people that know more about the process than I do. Thanks in advance.

Forget about Yale. Their curriculum has gone to pot. Their Step I pass rate isn't impressive. People aren't matching very well from there. Hopkins grads match like crazy though and their curriculum is awesome, so good luck there! 👍

 

[LizzyM]

Sounds like Milk... doesn't want any competition at Yale. Here's an article about last year's Match. Seven (7% of the class) in ophthamology is not too shabby. http://www.yaledailynews.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=32199

Please keep in mind that Yale puts a lot of emphasis on original research. Every student completes a thesis before graduation. If you haven't had research experience as an undergrad you may be an underdog at Yale. Hopkins is also a research powerhouse and it is hard to assess your chances there (I'm not as familiar with the program at JHU).

 

[MWillie]

Doesn't hurt to apply, especially for a chance at such great research schools.

 

[Guile]

Sounds like Milk... doesn't want any competition at Yale. Here's an article about last year's Match. Seven (7% of the class) in ophthamology is not too shabby. http://www.yaledailynews.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=32199

Please keep in mind that Yale puts a lot of emphasis on original research. Every student completes a thesis before graduation. If you haven't had research experience as an undergrad you may be an underdog at Yale. Hopkins is also a research powerhouse and it is hard to assess your chances there (I'm not as familiar with the program at JHU).

Haha. I'm not applying. Perhaps they've now addressed their embarrassing match statistics from a few years ago. Just make sure you're mindful of the curriculum (as in, OPTIONAL, ANONYMOUS TESTS!...equals bedlam IMHO) when you apply.

 

[MWillie]

Haha. I'm not applying. Perhaps they've now addressed their embarrassing match statistics from a few years ago. Just make sure you're mindful of the curriculum (as in, OPTIONAL, ANONYMOUS TESTS!...equals bedlam IMHO) when you apply.

Zis is true.

 

[LizzyM]

Haha. I'm not applying. Perhaps they've now addressed their embarrassing match statistics from a few years ago. Just make sure you're mindful of the curriculum (as in, OPTIONAL, ANONYMOUS TESTS!...equals bedlam IMHO) when you apply.

Yale is not for everyone. The applicant has to be interested in research and self-disciplined enough to learn the material despite not getting graded on tests for the first two years. It is called "the Yale System" (you can look it up) and it has been producing leaders for years and years.

If the OP looks into the school and finds that it is not for him, then he should save his money.

 

[Guile]

Yale is not for everyone. The applicant has to be interested in research and self-disciplined enough to learn the material despite not getting graded on tests for the first two years. It is called "the Yale System" (you can look it up) and it has been producing leaders for years and years.

If the OP looks into the school and finds that it is not for him, then he should save his money.

Haha, well apparently the "Yale System" equaled a lot of flunked boards in the not too distant past.

But have at it if it's for you. Too bad the prestige of their med school cannot come close to that of their law school.

 

[clusterfunk]

Haha, well apparently the "Yale System" equaled a lot of flunked boards in the not too distant past.

Of course you can't beat the guaranteed admission to Yale Law that apparently comes with a matriculation to Yale Med.

 

[LizzyM]

Haha, well apparently the "Yale System" equaled a lot of flunked boards in the not too distant past.

But have at it if it's for you. Too bad the prestige of their med school cannot come close to that of their law school.

Is 20 years ago the "not too distant past"?

http://yalemedicine.yale.edu/ym_au02/yalesystem.html

I believe that the bumps in the road have been straightened out - in the rather distant past.

 

[BucsFan813]

I tend to disagree about the Hopkins curriculum being outstanding. I was under the impression that the curriculum was undergoing a major overhaul. Can anyone else weigh in?

 

[Severus]

The Yale System seems quite similar to homeschooling... if you're disciplined enough, you'll learn a ton. If not, well, be prepared to get left behind. Works for me. 👍

 

[Haemulon]

The Yale System seems quite similar to homeschooling... if you're disciplined enough, you'll learn a ton. If not, well, be prepared to get left behind. Works for me. 👍

I prefer learning on my own anyway. But I do even better by feeding off the inspiration of peers and mentors, also have a competitive streak that drives me forward. I think I would do well at Yale, although i'm not as crazy about writing yet another thesis.

 

[premeddick]

What do you all think the minumum MCAT is that you can have and still have a chance at getting into harvard, Yale, Johns, Northwestern....? I know that if you have a 4.0 you could probably have a lower one but how low?

 

[Haemulon]

What do you all think the minumum MCAT is that you can have and still have a chance at getting into harvard, Yale, Johns, Northwestern....? I know that if you have a 4.0 you could probably have a lower one but how low?

Well, I really don't think I have too much of a chance since my stats are way below their averages. But I think that I am a pretty unique applicant otherwise, which is why I applied. Anything can happen. If you think you fit what those schools are looking for, give it a shot. Worse that can happen is you lose the AMCAS and Secondary fees and the time spent filling out the apps.

 

[Guile]

The Yale System seems quite similar to homeschooling... if you're disciplined enough, you'll learn a ton. If not, well, be prepared to get left behind. Works for me. 👍

Med school is a lot like homeschooling. You have to be personally-motivated, want to learn, and have to do a lot of the teaching yourself. A lot of medical students don't go to class and just teach themselves.

 

[Guile]

I tend to disagree about the Hopkins curriculum being outstanding. I was under the impression that the curriculum was undergoing a major overhaul. Can anyone else weigh in?

I just know a lot of students who interviewed there and loved it.

 

[LADoc00]

Haha, well apparently the "Yale System" equaled a lot of flunked boards in the not too distant past.

But have at it if it's for you. Too bad the prestige of their med school cannot come close to that of their law school.

Can I get some web link verification on Yale failures? I love that stuff, I eat it up. Yale sucks.

 

[Guile]

Can I get some web link verification on Yale failures? I love that stuff, I eat it up. Yale sucks.

Here shows when 17 flunked their boards. I've also read that 10 failed their boards in the late 90's, but I can't find the link. I imagine that Yale doesn't publish those stats for this type of stuff and goes to great lengths to avoid it coming up. Instead, they love to stress their "Yale System" and how great it is.

 

[LADoc00]

Here shows when 17 flunked their boards. I've also read that 10 failed their boards in the late 90's, but I can't find the link. I imagine that Yale doesn't publish those stats for this type of stuff and goes to great lengths to avoid it coming up. Instead, they love to stress their "Yale System" and how great it is.

OMFG:

Exams were again the issue. Since they were introduced in the 1980s, exams have been anonymous and, except for qualifiers, optional. And they have in recent years been available online, so students can take them at home and on their own schedule.

“Are our people being rejected [from top residency programs] because they weren’t assessed properly?” asked Arthur C. Crovatto, M.D. ’54, HS ’61.

About a quarter of the class either refused to take the self-assessment exams for the modules in the winter of 2002 or scored in the 20s out of 100, she said.

The boards appear to have been the only required exams until the mid-1980s, when in a single year, 17 students failed Step 1 of the USMLE. “That provoked a great deal of concern among the basic science faculty,” former Dean Leon E. Rosenberg, M.D., HS ’63, said in a recent interview.

Guess those good old Ivory Tower Liberals have done it again!!

Wow, Yale really DOES suck. That seals it for me. Thanks.

 

[Guile]

Guess those good old Ivory Tower Liberals have done it again!!

Wow, Yale really DOES suck. That seals it for me. Thanks.

My favorite line: “That provoked a great deal of concern among the basic science faculty,” former Dean Leon E. Rosenberg, M.D.

 

[etf]

Too bad the prestige of their med school cannot come close to that of their law school.

lol, i would liken it to investing in the undervalued stock of a blue-chip company - you could get the yale medical degree now, while it might be relatively easier to get into, and maybe sometime in the future they'll "move up in the rankings" - making your degree much more valuable. then again, it is a medical degree after all, so it doesn't really matter much where you got it anyway - i guess it would just be for school pride purposes or something...

 

[LizzyM]

lol, i would liken it to investing in the undervalued stock of a blue-chip company - you could get the yale medical degree now, while it might be relatively easier to get into, and maybe sometime in the future they'll "move up in the rankings" - making your degree much more valuable....

3,400 applicants for 100 seats and above average gpa (3.74) & MCAT (33.6)of the incoming class in comparison to many other schools... I'd say it isn't near to being "relatively easier to get into".

 

[Guile]

3,400 applicants for 100 seats and above average gpa (3.74) & MCAT (33.6)of the incoming class in comparison to many other schools... I'd say it isn't near to being "relatively easier to get into".

Wow, only 3400 applications?? That's pretty low for many top schools. Harvard received 5943 applications for the August 2006 entering class. I think that really tells you something.

 

[Haemulon]

3,400 applicants for 100 seats and above average gpa (3.74) & MCAT (33.6)of the incoming class in comparison to many other schools... I'd say it isn't near to being "relatively easier to get into".

Hey, so its a 1 in 34 chance, all othe things being equal. Hmmmmm .....

 

[LizzyM]

Hey, so its a 1 in 34 chance, all othe things being equal. Hmmmmm .....

which they are not!

And Harvard vs. Yale = Boston vs. New Haven. no contest.

 

[FujiApple]

which they are not!

And Harvard vs. Yale = Boston vs. New Haven. no contest.

Sorry, I've never been to New Haven, and I don't know much about the city itself. Are you saying it's nicer than Boston? How? I think Boston's pretty nice...

 

[LizzyM]

Sorry, I've never been to New Haven, and I don't know much about the city itself. Are you saying it's nicer than Boston? How? I think Boston's pretty nice...

No, I'm saying the difference between Harvard's 5900 applications and 3400 appies to Yale can be explained in part by the locations of the two schools. New Haven is smaller, more isolated (the airport is a joke), and a little more gritty than Boston.

And in the popular imagination (and fueled by PBS documentaries and the like) Harvard Med School, like the business school, is considered the top of the heap so they do attract those who are looking for the "impress the folks" factor.

 

[FujiApple]

No, I'm saying the difference between Harvard's 5900 applications and 3400 appies to Yale can be explained in part by the locations of the two schools. New Haven is smaller, more isolated (the airport is a joke), and a little more gritty than Boston.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[MechEng2Doc]

I don't understand, if Yale is so bad why are they always ranked so high?

 

[Haemulon]

I don't understand, if Yale is so bad why are they always ranked so high?

They are not bad. It just means you need to be self motiveated and push yourself to be prepared instead of relying on the institutions program structure to ensure success. Yale really offers a top notch experience for those who are real self-starters.

 

[Guile]

I don't understand, if Yale is so bad why are they always ranked so high?

NIH funding and the research they turn out. Rankings rarely correlate to the actual experience you'll have. That said, some people seem to really mesh with Yale. Not me. 👎 (And that's not saying I'm not self-motivated either. I just don't like their curriculum.)

 

[gujuDoc]

For some reason I overlooked both of these schools when I initially submitted my app. I realize its late in the process, and my stats are by no means perfect (see link in sig), but would it be a complete waste of money for me to apply? Problem is I have basically run out of money and am having to pick up a second job right now in addition to everything else in order to fund my interview trips. Would it be worth it to apply to these or should I just accept that I wont be attending either?

Please no insults, comments about my intelligence, or anything along those lines. Just looking for some advice from people that know more about the process than I do. Thanks in advance.

No it wouldn't be too late. The only thing is that I know people even with superior stats that didn't get in because last year Yale interviewed 800+ candidates and only took some 100+ odd candidates.

So the chances are pretty slim. Actually you have a higher chance of getting into HMS if you interview there then if you interview at Yale, because HMS interviews about a 100 less candidates then Yale. Nonetheless, even HMS has too many interviewees and too few seats so its pretty much on the low chances even if you interview. Nonetheless if Hopkins and Yale interest you I'd go ahead and add them.

 

[gujuDoc]

Med school is a lot like homeschooling. You have to be personally-motivated, want to learn, and have to do a lot of the teaching yourself. A lot of medical students don't go to class and just teach themselves.

Very very very true. At USF in Tampa, they have what they call video streaming so if students don't feel like attending lectures they may see the lectures on video or online. Something like that. I don't know the exact specifics. Plus most notes are online.

I have a friend in 3rd year who said that he used to spend a lot of time in first 2 years not going to class but learning it on his own through videostreaming of lectures and through powerpoints and textbooks.

 

[TPROrgoTutor]

Just thought Id let everyone know, as if you care =), I decided to just go ahead and keep the schools I had. Yale is beautiful but I don't think the program is really for me, and I dont have the money to go applying to any more schools iwth hindered chances right now. Hopefully Ill be okay with the schools I applied to....

 

[gujuDoc]

Just thought Id let everyone know, as if you care =), I decided to just go ahead and keep the schools I had. Yale is beautiful but I don't think the program is really for me, and I dont have the money to go applying to any more schools iwth hindered chances right now. Hopefully Ill be okay with the schools I applied to....

With 3 interviews plus probably a few more from the Florida schools I think you'll be ok.

😉

P.S. Did you get my PM????

 

[tictaq]

Just looked at your stats. If you are my competition at these schools I may as well give up now and not pay the fees! Good work during undergrad 👍

But my car is still faster than your M!

what car do you have?

 

[koch'spostulate]

deleted

 

[koch'spostulate]

to clarify, by board scores in the upper 20's, i'm referring to 220's.

 

[Guile]

Thanks for the updated info. Upper 220s still seems a little low for Yale though, but I guess it's a product of its curriculum. One might expect a school of Yale's name to be in the mid-230s. However, the match list speaks for itself.

 

[mmmkay121]

TPR, do you have any research experiences not listed on your Mdapps profile? ~90% of the students accepted to Yale and Hopkins had research experience. But hey, what's another $200 in a process that costs ~$6000?

 

[Oculus Sinistra]

to respond to some of the comments and concerns about the Yale system.. I find it interesting that the critique centers around the board scores of one class of students 20 years ago! that's hardly relevant now, particularly when our pass rate has been nearly 100% over the past several years, with the average step I score being in the upper 20s.

more importantly, if you're concerned about such things, our match lists are phenomenal. In internal medicine (for which I'm applying), 22 students applied last year. 1 went into the Navy to fulfill service requirements. Of the remaining 21:
6 went to Brigham and Women's Hospital
4 went to UCSF
Meaning nearly half (10/21) went to the two most prized and competitive programs in the country. The remainder?

Mass General
UPenn
Columbia
Yale
Hopkins
Emory
Wash U
Stanford
Montefiore
Maine

the Yale system eliminates grades and competition and puts nearly everyone at the top residencies in the country. it's a lot better than spending the four years stressed out and trying to be at the head of the class.

it allows flexibility to pursue research and other interests--I went in with little research experience and am coming out with 10 publications and numerous conference presentations, as well as some tremendous research training. the financial support for this flows like water: I received ~45K in research support alone (stipends, etc) directly from Yale (not NIH).

and it trains great doctors.

And I hope to be one of those.
I think the Yale System is fantastic.

 

[tabor]

Whoever is trying to bad-mouth Yale, is just an idiot, ignorant, or just has an axe-to-grind. Yale produces Presidents, Supreme Court Justices, and great doctors all over the world. In addition, USMLE rates all over the country are pretty much the same. Carribean schools like SABA have a 94% USMLE passing rate, which is very similiar to most U.S. schools including Yale. However, Yale provides its graduates with connections and oppurtunities that otherwise would not be there. If your a leader, and are motivated, Yale offers you something more than other schools. If you just want to be a doctor, you can go to any med school. It all depends on you.

 

[Max8]

No, I'm saying the difference between Harvard's 5900 applications and 3400 appies to Yale can be explained in part by the locations of the two schools. New Haven is smaller, more isolated (the airport is a joke), and a little more gritty than Boston.

And in the popular imagination (and fueled by PBS documentaries and the like) Harvard Med School, like the business school, is considered the top of the heap so they do attract those who are looking for the "impress the folks" factor.

After interviewing at both places I will say that I was much more impressed by Yale's facilities and curriculum. New Haven isn't Boston but it's a great city....I've spent some serious time there and it has an unnecessarily harsh reputation.

 

[cgscribe]

I can't believe that there's bad-mouthing of Yale here because they had bumps in the "late '90's." Even so, you can't honestly tell me that Yale isn't a good school. I was incredibly impressed when I visited, and would be happy to go. I like that you have to be involved with a research project (which isn't as bad as it sounds, as you find out upon interview), and I like the incredible freedom to be involved with outside activities. Their match results speak for themselves.

 

[Towelie]

After interviewing at both places I will say that I was much more impressed by Yale's facilities and curriculum. New Haven isn't Boston but it's a great city....I've spent some serious time there and it has an unnecessarily harsh reputation.

I'm sorry, but New Haven is not a "great city." It just isn't. Trust me.

I'm surprised you were more impressed by Yale's facilities. Hopkins is consistently considered to be the best Hospital in the country, by far. Yale's Hospitals don't even appear on a list of the top 15. Plus, it's New Haven. Yuck. (Not that Baltimore is much better).

 

[Max8]

I'm sorry, but New Haven is not a "great city." It just isn't. Trust me.

I'm surprised you were more impressed by Yale's facilities. Hopkins is consistently considered to be the best Hospital in the country, by far. Yale's Hospitals don't even appear on a list of the top 15. Plus, it's New Haven. Yuck. (Not that Baltimore is much better).

Haha, sorry, I meant Yale vs Harvard (was quoting LizzyM's statement about them) I haven't interviewed or even applied to Hopkins and have no judgement about it. I lived right outside of New Haven for a long time and worked in the city---I do think it's great. It can be dangerous and it can be dirty....but it also has some awesome things about it and it is only a train ride from both New York and Boston....what other cities can that be said for?