You should all read this!

[Elastase]

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http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/reporter/june05/word.htm

Amen AAMC prez!

 

[kdwuma]

I Wonder What All Those, Lets Get Rid Of Aa And Equal Playing Field People Have To Say To This. If A Person Can Not Even Get Decent Health Care How Even Is The Playing Field??

 

[StreetGenius]

I think they should start off by eliminating the mcat. AAMC just talks alot, talk is cheap homeees..

 

[jmnykrkts]

I think that the most obvious factor underlying such a disparity stems from the major financial discrepancies across different races in the US (ie. White vs minority). IMHO, this is one of the most problematic issues with privatized medicine. I'm from Canada, (eh), and I would argue that this problem doesn't exist here - at least not nearly to the extent that it does south of the border. We do have problems with Native and other rural populations not receiving adequate health care but this stems more from geography as opposed to something more systematic...

 

[godot]

I think they should start off by eliminating the mcat. AAMC just talks alot, talk is cheap homeees..

Or how about an AAMC-funded MCAT review class for underrepresented minorities that is equivalent to Kaplan or PR? Just a pipe dream...

 

[cromagnon]

what a load of bull****.....show me proof.

 

[doctorjoy]

Very interesting statement. HAsn't this been said for a very long time, but still nothing has changed. 😕 We will just have to wait and see what happens.

 

[MadameLULU]

what a load of bull****.....show me proof.

man, you are clueless... why don't you start out by skimming the IOMs 2003 report

 

[Neurolemma]

I think they should start off by eliminating the mcat. AAMC just talks alot, talk is cheap homeees..

No, they should have a thing where if you score above 36 you're automatically accepted. I don't mind studying for an exam. You do it on your own time, theres no subjective grading, and its just once. Ppl who score 36 or below - well, they can go through the rest of the application process.

 

[cromagnon]

man, you are clueless... why don't you start out by skimming the IOMs 2003 report

I have. I see assumptions, theory, and some faulty logic. Maybe you could kindly direct me to the concrete evidence.

 

[Medikit]

I like how he wanted to throw race on top of the lower socioeconomic status as if that actually meant anything. Race only matters because some races are found more frequently in the lower socioeconomic bracket than others.

I think that AAMC should offer free MCAT materials to people in the lower socioeconomic bracket. Perhaps Jordan Cohen should consider how unfair the MCAT itself can be.

 

[Kazema]

No, they should have a thing where if you score above 36 you're automatically accepted.

Automatically accepted where? How exactly would that work?

 

[dajimmers]

Wouldn't automatically accepting people w/ >36 be even worse for the socioeconomically/racially underrepresented? It would make it even easier for the rich, Ivy-league attending student who never works and therefore has all the time in the world to study for the MCAT to get in.

Meanwhile, those who have to work to pay for school, or to support their family, or whatever, would have even fewer spots in med school...

I believe the MCAT should stay, but I do agree there need to be more support services (free MCAT classes, etc.) for the underrepresented. Too often the "fixes" are too lazy. For example, fee waivers help some, and so do Adcoms that take status into account, but these are just patches to allow students who wouldn't otherwise be admitted to get in. More needs to be done to ensure these students get the initial education and upbringing necessary so that the patches aren't.


NOTE- I may have made gross generalizations in the above post. I realize this, but stereotypes were not my subject, and I don't really care.

 

[DrBowtie]

I am not trying to be elitist at all but when do we stop assisting people to get ahead in the world?
Because of AA a kid gets into Harvard. S/He is not disadvantaged anymore. Why should he/she get to use AA again to get into med school too. Believe it or not, going to college and especially med school is a LUXURY not a neccesity.

 

[nicholonious]

No, they should have a thing where if you score above 36 you're automatically accepted. I don't mind studying for an exam. You do it on your own time, theres no subjective grading, and its just once. Ppl who score 36 or below - well, they can go through the rest of the application process.

I hope you're joking...

 

[mochief2000]

I feel it does have a lot to do with race, but not entirely. It is more of a money issue although prejudice will forever remain in US. For example, if a doctor knew he could make more money in the "hood" he'll go there, no matter the color. But the simple truth is that there isn't much money in the hood (medicare,medicaid don't compensate as much) therefore high paying doctors don't want to go. What is left is the minorities who grew up in that kind of area are the ones who are willing to go back to help the area. So actually trying to increase minority admission is a good idea in theory, the fault comes when the minority does not go back to the hood, but rather to the high paying place where there is already a overflow of doctors.

please no hate on this topic and yes I am black.

 

[fun8stuff]

Or how about an AAMC-funded MCAT review class for underrepresented minorities that is equivalent to Kaplan or PR? Just a pipe dream...

AA based on race and this way of thinking only propogates racism. Treating someone differently based on their race is wrong, no matter the context. 2 wrongs do not make a right. If anything is to be done, it should be based on low socioeconomic status, not race.

 

[nicholonious]

For example, if a doctor knew he could make more money in the "hood" he'll go there, no matter the color. But the simple truth is that there isn't much money in the hood (medicare,medicaid don't compensate as much) therefore high paying doctors don't want to go. What is left is the minorities who grew up in that kind of area are the ones who are willing to go back to help the area. So actually trying to increase minority admission is a good idea in theory, the fault comes when the minority does not go back to the hood, but rather to the high paying place where there is already a overflow of doctors.

please no hate on this topic and yes I am black.

There are programs which defer med school tuition fees in exchange for serving as a resident in an underserved community for X amount of years. It is not restricted to minorities. So you're telling me minorities are the only ones who want to go back and serve those communities? Life is way more three dimensional than you think. The 'plush' docs aren't only looking for money, they're looking for lifestyle. It just so happens that hoods have their share of homicide, rape, theft, and poverty. It's lifestyle too, and many like security.

By the way, I could give a **** about lifestyle and money. This is coming from someone who lives in Palo Alto.

 

[jmnykrkts]

I feel it does have a lot to do with race, but not entirely. It is more of a money issue although prejudice will forever remain in US. For example, if a doctor knew he could make more money in the "hood" he'll go there, no matter the color. But the simple truth is that there isn't much money in the hood (medicare,medicaid don't compensate as much) therefore high paying doctors don't want to go. What is left is the minorities who grew up in that kind of area are the ones who are willing to go back to help the area. So actually trying to increase minority admission is a good idea in theory, the fault comes when the minority does not go back to the hood, but rather to the high paying place where there is already a overflow of doctors.

please no hate on this topic and yes I am black.

How about subsidizing docs who decide to work in certain areas (low-income, rural...)? This is how we do it up north, but alas, probably never going to happen in the US with the privatized medical system

 

[TheMightyAngus]

"Moreover, we can reasonably surmise that minority physicians and scientists tend to select research topics of relevance to minority health concerns. It is clear from these and other considerations that increasing the racial and ethnic diversity of the physician workforce is one clear and powerful antidote to the racial and ethnic disparities that currently plague our vaunted healthcare system."

This is a bunch of bullsh*t and stereotype. If you look at humanitarian organizations such as the peace corps, australian volunteers international, even teach for america. A large proportion of participants are either white or middle class.

As someone who has worked abroad in this kind of work, I find it hard to believe the argument that "we look to help our own kind." A lot of people with "privileged" upbringings enjoy helping the disadvantaged because we realize the disparity. I would argue that many people who come from disadvantaged backgrounds, in fact, would rather enjoy an affluent lifestyle than return to work in troubled areas.

The solution isnt about recruiting more minorities. It's about recruiting people who have demonstrated an interest in serving the underserved. Med schools should adopt tuition-forgiveness programs like law schools do for people who pursue public-interest work.

 

[bigbassinbob]

http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/reporter/june05/word.htm

Amen AAMC prez!

What a douche. He needs to step the **** down if we are going to get the important issues in medicine addressed. All he ever bitches about is diversity.

 

[cromagnon]

What a douche. He needs to step the **** down if we are going to get the important issues in medicine addressed. All he ever bitches about is diversity.

word.

 

[VPDcurt]

I think that the most obvious factor underlying such a disparity stems from the major financial discrepancies across different races in the US (ie. White vs minority). IMHO, this is one of the most problematic issues with privatized medicine. I'm from Canada, (eh), and I would argue that this problem doesn't exist here - at least not nearly to the extent that it does south of the border. We do have problems with Native and other rural populations not receiving adequate health care but this stems more from geography as opposed to something more systematic...

Haha...no kidding that problem doesn't exist in Canada to the extent it does here in the US. The US is historically different from Canada and therefore our socioeconomic classes are based on different circumstances. Understanding US history and the events that have come before our time helps in this scenario.

 

[murphomatic]

Automatically accepted where? How exactly would that work?

everywhere of course 😉

 

[murphomatic]

How about subsidizing docs who decide to work in certain areas (low-income, rural...)? This is how we do it up north, but alas, probably never going to happen in the US with the privatized medical system

yea, but isn't the standard of care higher in the US than anywhere else in the world?

 

[VPDcurt]

yea, but isn't the standard of care higher in the US than anywhere else in the world?

Without a doubt.

 

[gtb]

Here in Colorado it seems that you can claim any ethnicity that you want on your application. The office will not check whether or not your are in fact Native American, or AA, or Hispanic. You get to self identify. That means even if you are 100% Caucasion, if you want to self identify as Hispanic, you can. There will be no DNA tests, requests for family trees, etc. So, if you struggle to get admitted, why not claim to be any ethnic minority that has a quota to fill. I am being quite sincere about this, I have no interest in supporting quotas, so at the very least consider self-identification as an under represented minority if you want to ensure matriculation into medical school. Assuming of course that your statistics are half-way decent.

I personally do not want a physician to lay hands on me who matriculated into medical school void of adequate intellectual preparation and apptitude. Far too many brilliant individuals from around the world are denied a US medical education because some ethnic quota is fulfilled within an admissions office. Admit based on ability - not on skin color.

Earlier in the thread it was written, ". . . So actually trying to increase minority admission is a good idea in theory, the fault comes when the minority does not go back to the hood, but rather to the high paying place where there is already a overflow of doctors."

During medical school, it was the Caucasion students volunteering with the SSO patients and the clinics in the AA neighborhoods. Granted it was Denver, Colorado. But all of the minority students did nothing in the clinics where indigent patients are so lacking in care. Actually one of my classmates spent enormous time working with the office of diversity to ensure the recruitment of even more URM students, but he never volunteered in the clinics where his skills would be useful. After failing step 1 (twice) and step 2 (at least once), and failing to match despite URM status, he is now doing a family medicine residency in a remarkably affluent community hospital - one that is reputed to dump any patient without insurance onto the University hospital down the street. Walk into most clinics within poor neighborhoods and perform your own characterization of the individuals working there. I will be very impressed if they grew up anywhere in that particular neighborhood.

 

[Elastase]

cromagnon, bigbassinbob:

Damn, you guys are tough guys huh? You guys need to get out and do some community service and see the problems out there…





The aamc president reminds me of a lot of leaders in CA education (ex/ Atkinson (former UC Regents), and current Chancellor at Berkeley) that realize that something isn’t right. We definitely don’t need affirmative action (I am not sure of the solution), but we need people that are going to treat people that are under-served. I totally agree that the people much more like to do that would be from the same ethnic background. I.E. Hispanic population can’t be helped if the doctor doesn’t know Spanish well, thus a hispanic doctor could understand the patient and in addition know the ethic customs to make the patient feel more comfortable.

 

[Neurolemma]

Automatically accepted where? How exactly would that work?

Thats how its done everywhere else in the world. North America wants to be diff I guess. 🙄

Wouldn't automatically accepting people w/ >36 be even worse for the socioeconomically/racially underrepresented? It would make it even easier for the rich, Ivy-league attending student who never works and therefore has all the time in the world to study for the MCAT to get in.

Meanwhile, those who have to work to pay for school, or to support their family, or whatever, would have even fewer spots in med school...

I believe the MCAT should stay, but I do agree there need to be more support services (free MCAT classes, etc.) for the underrepresented. Too often the "fixes" are too lazy. For example, fee waivers help some, and so do Adcoms that take status into account, but these are just patches to allow students who wouldn't otherwise be admitted to get in. More needs to be done to ensure these students get the initial education and upbringing necessary so that the patches aren't.

It might make an already competitive system even more competitive, but the advantage is you could go to med school right after HS. I don't know what to say about the underrepresented. I mean, what exactly do they want? It seems nothing will satisfy them. If ppl want to exhibit a victim mentality, thats how they'll be seen - as victims. They'll get some grudging sympathy, but not much else. Granted, there are historical injustices, but society has changed so much since then.

 

[Kazema]

Thats how its done everywhere else in the world. North America wants to be diff I guess. 🙄

But how does this work, really? What's to stop everyone with a 36+ (or whatever the equivalent score on the corresponding exam is) from applying to their country's Harvard? And if they limit how many people are allowed to that school how do they keep people from getting upset about not being allowed in based on just luck?

Or is it that you only get in automatically at certain schools, other schools you have to apply normally? Or are there just no real differences between medical schools in other countries? Or does it take a higher score to get into the top schools? I'm curious as to how this actually works, because I really don't see how it could work in the US.

 

[domukin]

I don't know what to say about the underrepresented. I mean, what exactly do they want? It seems nothing will satisfy them. If ppl want to exhibit a victim mentality, thats how they'll be seen - as victims. They'll get some grudging sympathy, but not much else. Granted, there are historical injustices, but society has changed so much since then.

Wow... You should really take a trip to low socioeconomic areas in your city. You'd be amazed how unjust american society can be. From personal experience, I can say that one easily forgets that the rest of the US is not nearly as well off as it appears.

 

[cromagnon]

Wow... You should really take a trip to low socioeconomic areas in your city. You'd be amazed how unjust american society can be. From personal experience, I can say that one easily forgets that the rest of the US is not nearly as well off as it appears.

interesting that you automatically assume that someone with a different opinion than you doesnt know what they are talking about.

explain to me these injustices of american society. i would be interested to know how i too can determine direct cause and effect relationships that lead to these low socioeconomic areas.

for those of you who think that urm's should have more advantages in applying to medical school i suggest you start a program where you can donate your acceptance to a less qualified urm who was not accepted. you wont get to go to medical school but at least you will know that youve done your part to serve the the underserved.

 

[godot]

AA based on race and this way of thinking only propogates racism. Treating someone differently based on their race is wrong, no matter the context. 2 wrongs do not make a right. If anything is to be done, it should be based on low socioeconomic status, not race.

I meant my statement more as a provocation than a serious suggestion. Importatnly, I was addressing the fact that review courses are expensive and are not necessarily an option for disadvantaged, "low socioeconomic status" applicants (a majority of which are underrepresented minorities). Those that can afford such courses (white, of educated parents) are given an additional edge. Plus your assertion that affirmative action propogates racism ("treating...differently", "no matter the context", etc.) only illustrates that you have no idea how rampant racism is. Or maybe you've lived in some diverse utopia bubble all your life or a homogenic community whose fears are misdirected. Racism is there. People just don't talk about it. I grew up in a community in which whites were a minority and in a part of the country where diversity is appreciated. I can assuredly say that people benefit from working and learning next to people from different backgrounds. It opens your eyes and your minds and builds stronger communities. Thinking about someone getting by just because they're brown or black or purple is quickly forgotten when you eventually realize you're more alike than different. Until a lot of the current injustices are rectified and when we have a professional community that truly reflects the changing American population, affirmative action and other programs will be needed. The federal government recognizes this through the Supreme Court decision, and funding for minorities is already underway through the NIH's Minority Biomedical Research Support program, for example. The truth is that until you've lived in someone else's shoes, with years of injustice and discrimination to back it up, you really don't have anything to say.

Gregory Pappas et al., "The Increasing Disparity in Mortality Between Socioeconomic Groups in the United States, 1960 and 1986," New England Journal of Medicine, vol. 329 (July 8, 1993), pp. 103-09

U.S. Department of Commerce, Economics and Statistics Administration, Bureau of the Census, Current Population Reports, P60-200, Money Income in the United States: 1997 (with Separate Data on Valuation of Noncash Benefits), September 1998, p. viii

 

[godot]

for those of you who think that urm's should have more advantages in applying to medical school i suggest you start a program where you can donate your acceptance to a less qualified urm who was not accepted. you wont get to go to medical school but at least you will know that youve done your part to serve the the underserved.

That's quite a myopic view of the situation. What exactly is your definition of advantages? Having parents that never graduated from high school and can't help you with your geometry homework? Peers that ridicule you for thinking of going to college? Having to work 40 hours a week to afford college and maybe you can have time to study for the MCATs? Dealing with siblings and parents that need you to start helping pay the bills just so that everyone can just get by? Having no role models to look up to? Knowing that the guy down the dorm hall who works 1/10 as hard as you do will get into school because his dad went to school with Dr. Soandso on the adcom? Please tell me. And if you do start such a program, don't think of it as doing "your part to serve the underserved." Think of it as helping our society as a whole and keeping someone who's not as nice and caring out of med school. A worthy sacrifice.

 

[VPDcurt]

That's quite a myopic view of the situation. What exactly is your definition of advantages? Having parents that never graduated from high school and can't help you with your geometry homework? Peers that ridicule you for thinking of going to college? Having to work 40 hours a week to afford college and maybe you can have time to study for the MCATs? Dealing with siblings and parents that need you to start helping pay the bills just so that everyone can just get by? Having no role models to look up to? Knowing that the guy down the dorm hall who works 1/10 as hard as you do will get into school because his dad went to school with Dr. Soandso on the adcom? Please tell me. And if you do start such a program, don't think of it as doing "your part to serve the underserved." Think of it as helping our society as a whole and keeping someone who's not as nice and caring out of med school. A worthy sacrifice.

Nothing you mention here has to do with skin color. It is more a reflection of socioeconomic status. Blacks will start to progress in American society when they abandon the current ideas of victimization and self-fulfilling prophecy and embrace other ideas that have proven to be successful among other races. Everyone goes around calling whites the racists; however, it is the minorities that are labeling all whites as little rich kids whose parents pay for everything and who only work 1/10 as hard. Get over yourself and your skin color. Stop making it such a big issue.

 

[cromagnon]

That's quite a myopic view of the situation. What exactly is your definition of advantages? Having parents that never graduated from high school and can't help you with your geometry homework? Peers that ridicule you for thinking of going to college? Having to work 40 hours a week to afford college and maybe you can have time to study for the MCATs? Dealing with siblings and parents that need you to start helping pay the bills just so that everyone can just get by? Having no role models to look up to? Knowing that the guy down the dorm hall who works 1/10 as hard as you do will get into school because his dad went to school with Dr. Soandso on the adcom? Please tell me. And if you do start such a program, don't think of it as doing "your part to serve the underserved." Think of it as helping our society as a whole and keeping someone who's not as nice and caring out of med school. A worthy sacrifice.

It's not a "view" of the "situation".....It's a satire of those who feel that there are so many people who "just dont have a chance"

I guess the last few sentences of your post are supposed to be an insult. How very telling...

 

[godot]

It's not a "view" of the "situation".....It's a satire of those who feel that there are so many people who "just dont have a chance"

I guess the last few sentences of your post are supposed to be an insult. How very telling...

Woah you guys. Sorry if I've misunderstood people, and I don't want to make this such a heated discussion. Just wanted to support the views of the AAMC pres. I'm sure that there are a lot of more experienced and knowlegable people who are more aware of these discussed health disparities than ourselves. I'm just speaking from real life experience and maybe you're speaking from what you hear on talk radio. There is a whole other world out there that you will one day face full on when that trauma patient, high on something and full of gunshot wounds, comes busting through the doors of your ER. The fact is that there is a disparity in healthcare depending on socioeconomic status, which is correlated with race. We shouldn't be talking about blacks or Hispanics getting off their a$$es to do something to better themselves and their situation and blaming one group or another. Rather, as caring individuals (that's why we're going into medicine, right?) we need to make the education of future physicians part of the dialogue. I don't need to get over my self or my skin color. I worked hard to get where I am and I hope to be a positive role model because the change in my community will start with people like me. You and I are the future of medicine and we will be colleagues one day and I'm optimistic that our generation will be able to address all these issues to benefit everyone.

 

[fun8stuff]

The solution isnt about recruiting more minorities. It's about recruiting people who have demonstrated an interest in serving the underserved. Med schools should adopt tuition-forgiveness programs like law schools do for people who pursue public-interest work.

👍

 

[riceman04]

No, they should have a thing where if you score above 36 you're automatically accepted. I don't mind studying for an exam. You do it on your own time, theres no subjective grading, and its just once. Ppl who score 36 or below - well, they can go through the rest of the application process.

hhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa............................weirdo......................I think they should "have a thing" where if you score above a 42 you're automatically rejected for the fear of accepting a person who is a freak of nature and will most likely have the worst bedside manner ever (especially with people who live in the hood). Ppl who score 42 or below - well, they should go through the rest of the app process FOR FREEE!

How lame!

 

[riceman04]

I am not trying to be elitist at all but when do we stop assisting people to get ahead in the world?
Because of AA a kid gets into Harvard. S/He is not disadvantaged anymore. Why should he/she get to use AA again to get into med school too. Believe it or not, going to college and especially med school is a LUXURY not a neccesity.

Pleeaase not this again.

 

[riceman04]

There are programs which defer med school tuition fees in exchange for serving as a resident in an underserved community for X amount of years. It is not restricted to minorities. So you're telling me minorities are the only ones who want to go back and serve those communities? Life is way more three dimensional than you think. The 'plush' docs aren't only looking for money, they're looking for lifestyle. It just so happens that hoods have their share of homicide, rape, theft, and poverty. It's lifestyle too, and many like security.

By the way, I could give a **** about lifestyle and money. This is coming from someone who lives in Palo Alto.

Do you live in that realllllllllllllllllly nice area of Palo Alto with all those mansions?

 

[riceman04]

Thats how its done everywhere else in the world. North America wants to be diff I guess. 🙄



It might make an already competitive system even more competitive, but the advantage is you could go to med school right after HS. I don't know what to say about the underrepresented. I mean, what exactly do they want? It seems nothing will satisfy them. If ppl want to exhibit a victim mentality, thats how they'll be seen - as victims. They'll get some grudging sympathy, but not much else. Granted, there are historical injustices, but society has changed so much since then.

Wow!!!!!! 😱 😱 😱
How uninformed could you be!

 

[domukin]

interesting that you automatically assume that someone with a different opinion than you doesnt know what they are talking about.

explain to me these injustices of american society. i would be interested to know how i too can determine direct cause and effect relationships that lead to these low socioeconomic areas.

for those of you who think that urm's should have more advantages in applying to medical school i suggest you start a program where you can donate your acceptance to a less qualified urm who was not accepted. you wont get to go to medical school but at least you will know that youve done your part to serve the the underserved.

1.- About opinions. It seemed to me that such a generalized comment was without merit, and hence told him he should check out for himself how just society is. Now, if he does that or if he grew up in the ghetto and still believes that society is truly just, then sure, I guess we have different opinions.

2.- I don't believe it is my place to explain to you these injustices, nor do I care to draw out a causation diagram for you. I will give you the same advice I gave the other guy, go to the ghetto in your area and ask for yourself. I bet you won't find lazy, dumb, irresponsible, etc people there. But rather regular people who have work harder than most of us and still find it difficult to survive.

3.- URM flamebait- won't even bother.

 

[domukin]

I know what you're talking about. But I disagree that those ppl are oppressed in any way. I had highly talented friends in HS who dropped out. It certainly wasn't lack of resources; neither were they experiencing any form of "oppression". It was lack of motivation. Age was probably a factor too. It was amazing to see a 3.9 just quit. But I'll you, it does happen. So on the opposite end of the spectrum, I can visualize ppl who claim to be "oppressed" and never actually try. I wouldn't say the system is perfect, but its all thats there. Its proven effective in the majority of cases. Exhaust everything it has to offer, and then "give up", if you can call it that.

I'm not sure where you are going with this. I believe some people are oppressed in the manner that they have very limited choices. For example, it’s hard to do well in class if you have to worry about putting food on the table. Can't reach your full potential on that mcat if you can't afford prep courses that every other kid takes. Can't get a good educational foundation if your school is poorly funded and the parents are too poor to help out. Sure, it's not chains, and people aren't getting thrown to the back of the bus, but poor people still get the shaft. What's worse is that education is the ONLY way that poor people can rise up socioeconicamilly, and if you handicap them from the get go, very few make it.

I totally understand the lack of motivation comment, however I believe most URM's don't have that problem, if they are trying to get in even with the extremely competitive nature of med school, then they sure aren't lacking motivation.

I too agree that it is a good system to have, and that it is MUCH better than having no system at all.

 

[cromagnon]

I'm not sure where you are going with this. I believe some people are oppressed in the manner that they have very limited choices. For example, it’s hard to do well in class if you have to worry about putting food on the table. Can't reach your full potential on that mcat if you can't afford prep courses that every other kid takes. Can't get a good educational foundation if your school is poorly funded and the parents are too poor to help out. Sure, it's not chains, and people aren't getting thrown to the back of the bus, but poor people still get the shaft. What's worse is that education is the ONLY way that poor people can rise up socioeconicamilly, and if you handicap them from the get go, very few make it.

I totally understand the lack of motivation comment, however I believe most URM's don't have that problem, if they are trying to get in even with the extremely competitive nature of med school, then they sure aren't lacking motivation.

I too agree that it is a good system to have, and that it is MUCH better than having no system at all.

You think that only URM's face these challenges? What about the kid on a farm in the middle of nowhere? Is he any different? Do you seriously believe that certain races are "oppressed" across the board while other races are not? Do you believe that there aren't people living paycheck to paycheck in suburbia and that the only bad schools are in low socioeconomic areas?

You create quite the picture of disadvantage with problems you state above. But who is that person who can't afford prep courses and goes to underfunded schools. That could be anybody. It was me. There are people serving in the military (like I did) in order to pay for college. Do you think all these people are URM's?

And what are you doing to a group of people when you tell them that they are different and need special help in order to achieve anything in life? Do you really think that is good? Would you raise your kids like that?

While your intentions may be noble, your solution is both misguided and misapplied. Is it unfair that certain people have to work harder to get things in life? Yes. Can you classify those people based soley on race? NO.

 

[cromagnon]

Woah you guys. Sorry if I've misunderstood people, and I don't want to make this such a heated discussion. Just wanted to support the views of the AAMC pres. I'm sure that there are a lot of more experienced and knowlegable people who are more aware of these discussed health disparities than ourselves. I'm just speaking from real life experience and maybe you're speaking from what you hear on talk radio. There is a whole other world out there that you will one day face full on when that trauma patient, high on something and full of gunshot wounds, comes busting through the doors of your ER. The fact is that there is a disparity in healthcare depending on socioeconomic status, which is correlated with race. We shouldn't be talking about blacks or Hispanics getting off their a$$es to do something to better themselves and their situation and blaming one group or another. Rather, as caring individuals (that's why we're going into medicine, right?) we need to make the education of future physicians part of the dialogue. I don't need to get over my self or my skin color. I worked hard to get where I am and I hope to be a positive role model because the change in my community will start with people like me. You and I are the future of medicine and we will be colleagues one day and I'm optimistic that our generation will be able to address all these issues to benefit everyone.

That letter from the AAMC president is some truly sick and twisted sh1t. Hopefully, one day you can realize this too...the future of your community depends on it.

 

[VPDcurt]

Hey riceman, you need to make some points that actually have substance. Otherwise, do not waste time posting here.

 

[godot]

That letter from the AAMC president is some truly sick and twisted sh1t. Hopefully, one day you can realize this too...the future of your community depends on it.

I hardly think you have any idea what the future of my community needs. Obviously there's no way to even convince you to even reconsider some of your views. So I won't debate you. I understand where you're coming from. I doubt you have the best interest of our society in your heart. No one's looking for a hand out and the whole application process is still a very selective process and arduous journey no matter your background. Perhaps you feel slighted somehow or reverse discriminated against. At any rate, I wish you luck on your future endevours. Maybe one day we'll unknowingly run into each other and, instead, talk about baseball and debate the merits of the designated hitter rule over a beer or something. If one day you're in Manhattan, NY, just take a stroll up Park Ave or Lexington Ave or Madison. Start at about 59th St and just make your way up past the 90's into Harlem. Perhaps this can give you a slight idea of how wide the chasm is... Peace.

 

[hcib]

interesting that you automatically assume that someone with a different opinion than you doesnt know what they are talking about.

explain to me these injustices of american society. i would be interested to know how i too can determine direct cause and effect relationships that lead to these low socioeconomic areas.

for those of you who think that urm's should have more advantages in applying to medical school i suggest you start a program where you can donate your acceptance to a less qualified urm who was not accepted. you wont get to go to medical school but at least you will know that youve done your part to serve the the underserved.

In my mind, the most frustrating mentality about AA is that it seeks to help "less qualified" individuals. I know minorities who will be attending med school in the fall. Their statistics indicate that they are anything but "less qualified." Furthermore, as applicants/pre-matriculants, we should know better than anyone else that exceptional MCAT scores do not pre-empt becoming outstanding physicians.

The main objective of AA, in fact, is to recruit more people of color into the education system. That is Cohen's main arguement-we have to make a conscious effort to diversify our academic communities. Minorities are more likely to understand the cultural and social issues affecting minority communities.

AA is an unfortunate neccessity in today's society. Despite our efforts to appear color-blind and unbiased, there are wide socioeconomic gaps between ethinicities in the States. Socioeconomic status and race are NOT distinct entities; they are contingent upon one another. By virtue of being of a partuclar ethnicity, an individual may be subject to a lower standard of living, a sub-standard education, and even poor nutrition. AA is an effort to put minorities a step ahead of their starting point. This is only a tiny step in the direction of equalizing them with their white, priveleged, well-educated, affluent peers. When the day arrives that US society is no longer institutionally, inherently racist, then the need for AA will become obsolete.

 

[mochief2000]

Everybody has one example of how this minority or that minority messed up, but there are far more that have gone on to be perfect doctors. One person said he doesnt want a AA person working on him because of bad GPA and MCAT scores. Are you Fuc*ing serious, what the hell has that to do with anything. Its just to get you in the door, what matters is board scores. There are countless white people that failed the board numerous times who are practicing right now. As soon as one minority fails its like, " I told you AA doesn't work"

There was another comment about white people going back to the hood. Come on be serious none of you (maybe 1 out of 1000) what to go to the hood. The only way to get you to go to the hood would be to give you some type of benefit like loan payment or some other shi#. In truth, you would rather go and voleenter in a foreign country than go to the hood. I don't need no benefits to go back. I want to go back. I know how it is. I may be the role model the prompt 100 minorites to be doctors

not all white people are rich, not all black people are poor. but thats not the argument. The arguement is that their is a shortage of minority doctor although minorites population continues to increase.