Clin path vs anatomic path

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AK9800

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Hey everyone, I’m currently a second year vet student and have always thought I wanted to go into anatomic pathology. I’ve had experience shadowing anatomic pathologists and doing research related to anatomic pathology and have always enjoyed it. However, after finishing clin path this semester I realized how much I enjoyed it and am questioning what I want to do.

I was hoping anyone could shed light on what makes them different. I know anatomic pathologists conduct necropsies and do histopathology while clinical pathologists deal with hematology, urinalysis, chemistry and cytology, but was wondering how they differ in work setting, pay, work life balance, competition for residency, career satisfaction, etc.

Thank you for any insight!

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When you look at it broadly, they’re very similar. Similar competitiveness for residency spots and for jobs. On paper there’s more AP residencies and more AP jobs, but there’s also more APs out in the world. There’s a similar boards pass rate nowadays. It does seem like there’s more of a push for advanced degrees along with an AP residency than in CP…you can certainly pursue masters or a PhD in CP and there are tenure track positions, but ‘clinical track’ academia positions are more and more common in CP. If you do diagnostics only the degrees don’t really matter past board certification.

The broad categories of the fields tend to be quite similar…for both CP and AP you can work in a diagnostic lab, you can be in academia and do a combo of diagnostics, teaching, and research, or you can work in pre-clinical drug safety/contract research organizations. There are a few other really niche things, but those are the general options. So work setting is going to be fairly similar. There seem to be more small state-run labs that have anatomics but don’t have clinical pathologists, but there are some that do. Pay is fairly similar as far as I can tell from seeing jobs posted. Academia will pay the least, CRO/drug safety stuff pays best, and diagnostics in the middle. As far as specialists go, we’re among lower paid specialties but the work life balance (at least for me in diagnostics) is superb and makes it worth it.

The tagged APs can chime in more about their day to day stuff, but clin path is going to be a lot more focused on immediate sample analysis from live patients. There’s no necropsy duty obviously. I work in diagnostics. Both AP and CP in the big commercial diagnostics is now almost exclusively digital pathology and working from home. Cyto slides get submitted to the lab, the lab scans them with a microscope camera thing, and images get beamed to me via internet. I get 45-50 cases every morning. I read them out (evaluate then dictate a report), then when I’ve done all those, I’m done and I can log out and walk away from the home office. I answer calls from vets during my working hours but it’s usually questions about samples I did. There’s not as much bloodwork analysis in commercial diagnostics for CP it’s mostly cytology and hematology. My lab expects us to work about 8 hours a day but if you’re efficient they don’t care if we work less as long as the work is done and of good quality. I average about 6 hours a day, sometimes less because I’m fast. CPs in academia are still going to be primarily doing sample evaluation but there’s more teaching and research components. I did way more bloodwork analysis in residency/academia than I do in diagnostics. For the commercial diagnostic APs, life will be very similar. Histo techs will prep the biopsy samples and then they’re given a daily stack of histo cases to read digitally just like I am. The idexx and antech APs really aren’t doing necropsies themselves, just looking at submitted tissues. In academia or in smaller labs like state d-labs APs are gonna be doing more of the actual necropsies and/or teaching students and residents to do that. At my residency location they were on necropsy duty like once a month, then had a week to write up the reports, then spent a week on surgical biopsy samples, then had a week for whatever else.

For me, the difference really comes down to where you want to be in the process. Clin path often doesn’t give a “definitive answer”, but we help guide the clinical decision making and determine next steps and our patients are almost all alive. AP is more likely to give you an ultimate answer. I feel like with CP we focus more on little cellular details (since cyto doesn’t have architecture) and AP is more of a Birds Eye view entire look at a larger sample. But, especially in commercial diagnostics, it’s really just you and some cells at a computer all day every day. There’s so much shared between the two fields, it really comes down to what kind of samples do you like best.

I’d recommend you spend some time just hanging out with the pathologists at your vet school while they’re reading cases, if that’s something they allow. It’ll give you a good idea of what we see and do on a daily basis.
 
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Thank you so much for your reply [mention]JaynaAli [/mention]! Is there any worry about the impact of AI on pathology (bot clinical and anatomic) and do you think this will have a negative impact on the future of the field?
 
Sure. The main topic at our pathology conference this past year was AI applications. IDEXX announced an upcoming AI analyzer for ear cyto and blood with the promise of fna analysis capabilities earlier this year. But I think like anything, we’ll just have to adapt and embrace it. Who knows what impact it’ll have on jobs down the line. In general it takes 5-10 years for new developments to become commonly used/trusted, so I think we’ll be fine for a while. Some people will probably always want that human brainpower for their sample analysis rather than blindly trusting AI. But it could certainly change what our day to day looks like, sure. But your guess is as good as mine as that exactly that will look like and when or if there will be a shift in the job force because of it.
 
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I agree that overall the work-life balance, residency competitiveness, etc are pretty similar amongst the two specialties - we're like cousins. I was torn between AP and CP myself - I actually worked as an after-hours CP tech during school and loved it, but ultimately chose anatomic because I like histology better than cytology (relating back to what Jayna said about what types of samples you like - hah!) I like all the architecture and I am terrible at individual cellular stuff. But I miss all the chemistry.

I can only speak from my experience which is in academia (I'm an anatomic with a PhD), although my experience is not the norm because I work at a MD school with a heavy teaching focus with only a minor focus on research (usually academic jobs want more). The pay in academia is lower than in industry, but the benefits (awesome health insurance, a REALLY high 401k match rate, etc) are fantastic and I have a lot of independence and flexibility. Plus the whole PSLF thing. I'll take earning less for all of those benefits. I teach MD students the majority of my time, and also do diagnostics at the neighboring vet school on the side. My clinical service is split between biopsy (people send you bits and you put the bits on slides) and necropsy (which also includes histopath of course, but its obviously much messier getting your slides lol). You usually have to be involved in research to some degree if you're in an academic position, so I do a lot of collaborative stuff with a lot of different groups - usually helping them analyze tissue from their animal models.

I LOVE my specialty. I especially love the fact that my interaction with clients is minimal and I have a lot of independence. Teaching is a blast too. The downside is all the politics and hierarchy stuff that comes with academia - let's just say high school never ends, even when people are adults. However, I'm still happy with my career choice overall. That beings said, I do think that when I've gotten enough years for PSLF, I might go into diagnostics - still debating that. Mostly because if I wanted to work at a vet school primarily, most vet schools are in places I do not want to live (although the fact I will have many years teaching at an MD school would also open up that opportunity, and there are way more MD/DO schools in various places than there are vet schools).
 
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Sure. The main topic at our pathology conference this past year was AI applications. IDEXX announced an upcoming AI analyzer for ear cyto and blood with the promise of fna analysis capabilities earlier this year. But I think like anything, we’ll just have to adapt and embrace it. Who knows what impact it’ll have on jobs down the line. In general it takes 5-10 years for new developments to become commonly used/trusted, so I think we’ll be fine for a while. Some people will probably always want that human brainpower for their sample analysis rather than blindly trusting AI. But it could certainly change what our day to day looks like, sure. But your guess is as good as mine as that exactly that will look like and when or if there will be a shift in the job force because of it.


Honestly, if I could have AI read out the endless mast cell tumors and sebaceous hyperplasias I get all the time that would be fantastic lmaoooo ( of course for MCTs I would still have to grade them, but still). I think AI would actually streamline things really well if we could get it to do the "basic" stuff. It would be extremely useful for IHC interpretation - I know we have image analysis software already, but something along those lines that is even more precise would also be a real help.
 
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or the commercial diagnostic APs, life will be very similar. Histo techs will prep the biopsy samples and then they’re given a daily stack of histo cases to read digitally just like I am. The idexx and antech APs really aren’t doing necropsies themselves, just looking at submitted tissues. In academia or in smaller labs like state d-labs APs are gonna be doing more of the actual necropsies and/or teaching students and residents to do that.

This sounds like heaven to me. Grossing and prep is the part I hate the most about biopsy. And like I said, necropsy was super fun when I was a student/resident.....but now that I'm older and grumpier and with an occasionally twingy back, moving a couple hundred to a thousand pounds of meat around every day and coming home smelling like insides is not my idea of fun anymore :rofl:
 
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