Hey all,

Does anyone know anything about the post-bacc courses offered through Harvard's Extension School? Any opinions would be great.

Thanks!

Amy

Hi-

While I was working in Boston, I took Endocrine Physiology through the extension school. I had been doing a lot of basic science research and was thinking about what I wanted to do, so my boss suggested I take that class to get some more "clinical" background (I mean just human biology/disease, I didn't do anything in a clinical setting). The prof was nice enough. Everyone in the class was trying to get in to medical school. Some kids came from all over just to have "Harvard" on their application. However, I found the *Majority* of the kids to be cutthroat, unfriendly, and elitist. The caveat is that the course IS(well, was) interesting. Plus, there were people that were genuinely friendly and nice.

My advice is to look into BU's MA program. It is VERY successful and a friend of mine did it (additionally, I think it is shorter than the Harvard "certificate" premed program). He said that since everyone has the same goal (Just to do well) the competition isn't nearly as bad. It is comprised mostly of people who recently finished college, so the crowd is younger and the kids will socialize. Unlike the Georgetown program, the BU students aren't competing for a limited number of spots in the medical school class. The BU kids are looked upon favorably by BU (provided they do well) but ultimately go on to many different schools.

Best of luck
FG

I have a friend who did Harvard's ext. program to finish his pre-med requirements. He generally liked it and got into med school.

I think you have to be carefull about where you do your post-bac program. You obviously need A's in your post- bac to stand a chance of getting into medical school. And you know Harvard is going to attract the best and the brightest among the people who didn't get in. There is going to be a lot of gunners aiming for that A. It seems like a steep price to pay for the Harvard name.

I would seriously do some research and find out from STUDENTS which post-bac is worth it and which post-bac programs aren't shy about giving A's. Because let's face it , at this point it's all about politics and not about how much you learn. I don't care if I learn more at Harvard if it's going to cost me a B in a class when I could take elsewhere and get an A, which looks a lot better. This is especially true if you are trying to raise your overall GPA.

Don't forget that Harvard Extension is MUCH cheaper than BU's MA in Medical Sciences program. We're talking a difference of about $30,000/year. Plus, Harvard Extension does not require you to complete a thesis, which often takes an additional year after a year of coursework.

If your undergrad GPA hangs around 3.1 to 3.5, go to Harvard. If your undergrad GPA is < 3.0, go to BU. Eithe way, be prepared to work your ass off.

Cheers,

PH

Hi there,

Quick, related question: so if you have straight As in a post-Bacc program but a silly undergrad GPA (silly, as in :( ), are the big schools (including the Ivys) going to give you a chance to interview and a shot at snagging an M1 seat? What's been the precedent?

Cheers,
Kirsteen

Originally posted by KirsteenB
Hi there,

Quick, related question: so if you have straight As in a post-Bacc program but a silly undergrad GPA (silly, as in :( ), are the big schools (including the Ivys) going to give you a chance to interview and a shot at snagging an M1 seat? What's been the precedent?

Cheers,
Kirsteen

I don't know the answer. Maybe some others can shed some light on this. But I'm guessing that the Ivy's and top medical schools won't forgive low GPA's even with a killer post-bac record. They have too many top students that apply for them to forgive a really low GPA. I think the exception is if you do a post-bac program at an Ivy-League school such as Columbia.

I just finished a postbac in Illinois and I had multiple classmates get accepted to multiple top 10 schools this year...a bad undergraduate GPA is not neccessarily a death wish

How good is an ALB degree from Harvard Extension? Does it carry the same Harvard prestige? Anyone can do it, so how do med/grad schools look at it?

Originally posted by thesocialbeast
I just finished a postbac in Illinois and I had multiple classmates get accepted to multiple top 10 schools this year...a bad undergraduate GPA is not neccessarily a death wish

That's really encouraging news. It's nice to see that top schools are forgiving.

Originally posted by pasific
How good is an ALB degree from Harvard Extension? Does it carry the same Harvard prestige? Anyone can do it, so how do med/grad schools look at it?

Obviously, I don't think they will give it the same credence as someone who attended Harvard full time. At the same time, if you have maintain a high GPA at this program, it's going to look good no matter what. It's Harvard and many of the courses will be taught by the same Harvard staff. I think you would be set if you graduated from the program with a 3.5 or higher.

While some of the upper division courses are easier than others, it's the competition that can be brutal.

Example: Immunology - difficult course, one midterm, one final, cutoff for an A on the midterm: 92. Conveniently, one question was made to be worth 10 points and involved recognizing one small figure out of many in the book, miss that question entirely and you're out of luck. Final was just as difficult. also should mention cutoff for an A on the midterm as a graduate student was a 94 or 95.

Example: Physiology - easier course, one midterm, one final, average grade for the midterm was an 88! Syllabus said no curve just straight grading but final was so difficult that class ended up having to be curved as apparently many people bombed it.

Silver lining: the classes are relatively cheap, the program is well recognized, most courses well taught (most, not all), and you will learn if you study. Just beware that if you're caught slipping just once on an exam and you could possibly have lost the A for the semester.

my turn: anyone taken some upper division science courses at Harvard Ext that they'd recommend? I'm looking for a few more courses. Not looking for vague courses like Perspectives on HIV, more for classes like Neurobiology etc. Many thanks in advance.

here we go-

i'm just finishing evolution of comparative vertebrate anatomy at the extension school. it's an awesome coures- i highly recommend it.

i took biochem a few semesters back. it was hell. competition was brutal. whole course was curved so that the average was raised 73. half the class dropped after the midterm- which only made the competition worse. wouldn't recommend it at all.


my understanding is that neurobiology is difficult, but on the whole very manageable. a friend in the course this summer said the midterm avg. was 53- so a curve definitely comes into play in this course.

thanks for the info on human phys. i'm enrolling in it and the intro bio course this fall. fun stuff.

Originally posted by Rdhdstpkd
here we go-

i'm just finishing evolution of comparative vertebrate anatomy at the extension school. it's an awesome coures- i highly recommend it.

i took biochem a few semesters back. it was hell. competition was brutal. whole course was curved so that the average was raised 73. half the class dropped after the midterm- which only made the competition worse. wouldn't recommend it at all.


my understanding is that neurobiology is difficult, but on the whole very manageable. a friend in the course this summer said the midterm avg. was 53- so a curve definitely comes into play in this course.

thanks for the info on human phys. i'm enrolling in it and the intro bio course this fall. fun stuff.

Harvard sounds like an excellent program. It is a gamble though. If you succeed in the program, you are good to go. However, if you fail to get those A's, it's almost as if it were a waste of your time. As I feared, the competiton at Harvard is indeed brutal.

Hi,

I'm seriously considering moving to Cambridge because of family in that area (who doesn't love Boston anyway?). Can any of you comment on the core pre-med classes at the extention school? e.g. Organic Chem & Physics; I'll be graduating next year without taking these two classes (lets just say I switched majors very late in the game, my schedule didn't work out as well as I've liked it to); my college is filled with cut-throat pre-meds -- I''ve known from experience to stay the hell away from these types of people.


Thanks

Omniatlas,
I've heard the classes are well-taught but the competition is basically just as tough anywhere else. Plenty of Ivy League students and others who've made substantial commitments to a career in medicine. Regardless, Organic Chemistry is tough anywhere.

Rdhdstpkd,
I'm also enrolling in Physio I this fall (I took Physio II out of sequence) so see you in a month or so. I'm taking 2 other classes, possibly Neurobiology and Developmental Bone Biology. Also considering Comparative Vertebrate Anatomy. Or I may mix it up with BioStats or Pathophysiology. Anyways, this'll be my last semester, and I'm actually looking forward to returning to Los Angeles and taking on the MCAT next April.

Originally posted by thesocialbeast
I just finished a postbac in Illinois and I had multiple classmates get accepted to multiple top 10 schools this year...a bad undergraduate GPA is not neccessarily a death wish

What was your GPA? Around 2.5-3.0?

Originally posted by here we go
Omniatlas,
I've heard the classes are well-taught but the competition is basically just as tough anywhere else. Plenty of Ivy League students and others who've made substantial commitments to a career in medicine. Regardless, Organic Chemistry is tough anywhere.



Thanks for the info; are classes usually structured with only 2 tests, a mid-term and a final?

If I decide to enroll in the extension school, I'll probably be balancing a job and 3 classes (2 classes with lab) -- i believe it'll be doable as long as there aren't tests every week (my bio class last semester killed me with 12 tests...yes, 12 AND in addition a 10 page lab write-up).

This talk of competition being cutthroat and people not being friendly is making me squeamish. Sounds like it would be a big gamble for me(but then again its a gamble anywhere for me).
What are the advantages of opting to go to BU?
Does BU offer graduate courses through the metropolitan college?
I just read that you have to be matriculated in a certificate program or a degree program in order to be able to cross register to the day College of Arts and Sciences(which costs extra $$$$).
All I see is upper level Biology and Clinical science courses, would those count as grad courses?

blankguy,

i don't know too much about the met. i considered enrolling in a couple of classes this fall b/c i was having scheduling conflicts with some of the extension classes. in the end i decided against it because of cost. it's much more expensive than the extention school. that being said, i've known a couple of people who did their pre-reqs through the met and they were happy with the quality of the classes.

as for the competitive nature of the ext. school...... i think it's just the nature of pre-med students. anywhere you go to school with the intent of post-bac pre-med you'll run into some intensely competitive people. i prefer to compete against myself rather than those around me. not everyone will be cutthroat. i'm always willing to help fellow classmates and i've met quite a few that are the same way. 'here we go' was right on the money when he mentioned that the students had made a 'substantial comittment' to their path, the comittment and the drive to succeed make us all a little uptight. i've met some people i could do without, but also made friends - don't let the competition scare you.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. How is it at the lower level postbacc courses at harvard?

omniatlas,

Physio II and Immunology II during Winter semester 2003 were structured one midterm and one final. No quizzes or extra credit.

I also took Eukaryotic Cell Biology, completely different, 2 midterms and a final as well as problem sets every week or so. These were worth about 25% of the grade. This class definitely took up the majority of my time.

I didn't work or volunteer so I could focus on my schoolwork, having been out of the classroom for about 3 years, I was nervous about being a student again. It paid off though, I ended up with 2 A's and an A-. I think I'm still adjusting my studying style, hopefully my Fall semester studying will be more efficient, I want to do more clinical volunteering.

Of those that I spoke to, none held a full-time job, several held part-time jobs, some did volunteering, but most focused on their schoolwork. I'm not saying holding a full-time job will sink you, but it can get pretty rough if your exam days are near each other. Perhaps you can request days off the week before exams? Not trying to scare you, but just to let you know, a majority of those you're competing against won't be holding a full-time job.

Best of luck with your decision.

Thanks; I'll probably pick up a part time job and try and juggle with my classes; most of them only meet once or twice a week with weekend labs yeh?

Does anyone know how the EMT market is in Boston? I might decide to get certified; I've heard med-tech jobs are saturated in the big cities and might instead pursue the research (albeit not as exciting) route.

Let me ask your opinion, those that have taken classes at Harvard Extension School. I'm a research assistant Mon-Fri, and I work approximately 10-4. Do you think it's possible to take both chem and physics, and still do well?

Thanks for your input!

Amy

Hi Here We go,
where are you taking your courses?

Blankguy,
I'm at Harvard Ext.

Amy,
Yes you can get A's in those 2 classes, just budget time accordingly, and make sure you clear your calendar the week before exams and study very hard. It's a case of self-empowerment. I met one AMAZING girl last semester who took 4(!) classes at Harvard while doing part-time research and continuous auditioning (she was an actress). i believe she got straight A's.

good luck.

Do they keep track of separate Graduate GPA if I pay for the graduate rate on a course(assuming it is an option) even though I would be taking a course as a nonmatriculating student(not formally in any graduate certificate or degree program)?

I'm really suprised at the number of people on this board residing in Boston.:) Maybe we should have a get together :D

Oh, and also I noticed that the basic prereqs like Chemistry Biology and physics are listed as one course instead of 1 1/2 since they include labs.

Just out of curiosity who's your favorite teacher at the extension school?

Hello everyone. I'm really happy to see so many people are considering making the choice to start classes at Harvard Extension School this fall.

I'm hoping that some of you experienced post-bacs can tell me if it's realistic for me to enroll in three classes at once (Bio I, Chem I, and Physics I). Each of them has a lab, and some have discussion groups, etc. The plan would be to take these classes for a year, and then buckle down and take Orgo from Harvard Summer School...and then take the August 04 or April 05 MCAT...hoping for a Sept 06 admit. I travel M-F, so yes...I'll have to quit my job and either be a full time student or try to find a mindless job that will allow me to study.

I've been working as a consultant for a large firm for the past three years, so I'm not afraid of long hours or hard work...I am afraid of spending three years unemployed just to get into med school if I can get it done (pre-reqs, MCAT, apps, decision) in two.

Anyone have any insight? Anyone else tried this route or considering this route?

Am I nuts to think this is possible?

Thanks for your help.

That's a pretty heavy load. That's the equivalent of 4.5 courses in traditional undergrad.:eek:
Being a wimp (at this point). I'm contemplating taking chem, the Physics next summer then orgo and Bio the following year. It's just the last time I've handled natural sciences was 10 yrs ago so I don't want to risk it.

Does anybody know if I register in an upper level course as a graduate student the GPA for that course will be kept separate or do I have to be formally enrolled in a graduate program to be counted as a graduate gpa eventhough I paid graduate rate?
At this point my GPA sucks so I probably won't be able to enroll in the traditional way(apply etc...).

2 quick questions....

do people often start at extension in the spring semester??

i'm interested in getting the master's degree, mainly so i can have something to show for myself after completing the program. would it still be possible for me to count grades earned in these classes towards my undergrad gpa on my application, since (from what i understand) there would be "undergraduates" in the class as well?

bonus question:

is the program really "open admission"??

thanks!!!!

french fries = good

One more quick question -- does anyone have any information on working with Harvard affiliated research centers and getting a reduced Harvard Ext. tution? I remember reading on SDN some time ago that some members were able to wave their tuition, attending classes (for free!) and researching at one of their hospitals at the same time.

Hey guys and gals,
I need your input on this. In doing premed/predental and dealing with low GPA.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79076

blankguy,
You have to designate which type of credit you want for each class you take (Undergrad, Grad, or No Credit), so any class you take as a graduate student will be recorded as a graduate course, regardless of being in a formal program or not.

tjs02116,
Speaking with one of the Harvard Ext. advisors, I believe most people taking those pre-req's did 2 a semester while working part-time. There definitely were those who did 3 a semester to finish faster but they were full-time students. You have to judge whether you can get A's while taking 3. Try taking 3, gauge your progress up until the last day that you can drop the class without notation, then decide if the pace is right for you.

LordoftheFries,
I started extension in the Spring. I have no info on the master's program (which one are you talking about?). Most likely you will have to take them for Graduate credit which means they won't add to your undergraduate GPA. In all 3 of my Spring classes graduate and undergraduate students attended the same lectures but had different discussion groups. Graduates also had additional material to cover, extra responsibilites like papers or presentations, and on average, their grading curves were higher.

Here we go,
what worries me is that they(admissions people at dental schools which I seem to have trouble getting in touch with) might wonder if I took grad courses without being part of any program(grad certificate, masters, etc...).

the harvard program is 'open enrollment' however there is a certificate program that you have to be 'admitted' to. Admisions reqs for the certificate program depend on on your undergraduate gpa. in most cases it's just a comment to take 'x' number of credits- the lower your undergrad gpa the more credits you'll be required to take. if you maintain a certain gpa and score a 30 or above on the mcat you'll get a committee letter from harvard- if not you'll have to use a letter collection service. from what i can tell the committee letter is the only point in entering the formal program.

as for graduate credits- i wouldn't do it. i have a masters and all of that work goes into a separate gpa- doing nothing to raise my silly undergraduate gpa. there is an overall feeling with medical schools that a graduate gpa is terribly inflated. i know that this isn't always the case and that any perceived inflation can be attributed to the fact that you cannot be granted a masters without maintaining a certain gpa blah, blah, blah.... i could go on about this for hours. anyway, i'm not sure how it is with dental school, but for medical school i would do undergraduate courses so the gpa will be averaged with you undergrad gpa.

I'm getting all confused. :confused: :o Most people think I should do graduate credit because it shows a good gpa untainted by my bad undergrad gpa.

thanks for the info

here's the master's track i was talking about... it sounds like 10 courses taken for graduate credit = what they call a "master's in liberal arts". i'm hoping that this could be knocked out in a year, might have to do some summer schooling as well though. does anyone have any info on this degree (ie is it respected at all among med school admissions folk)

i guess hoping that i could still apply these credits to my "undergrad" gpa was wishful thinking. oh well. i still think it's the best option for me-- i did all my premeds in undergrad, but finished up with a 2.9 after a little too much fraternity. i did pull off a 34 on the mcat though. so undergrad courses probably aren't the way to go for me, right?? any thoughts are much appreciated

forgot to post the link. sorry.

here's the master's program:

http://www.extension.harvard.edu/alm/

How does the sponsorship at Harvard work? Other post-bacc programs have to accept you, but that doesn't seem to be the case at Harvard, do they sponsor you after you do the coursework. When do you have to submit the necessary materials(transcripts,etc...)?

I know people have posted bits of information about how tough harvard courses are. I still do not have a good picture of how tough they are. Which biology courses tend to be the toughest and which tend to be the easier(not necessarily that they are easy but relatively easy in relation to other courses) of the bunch?

harvard will sponsor you out of post-bacc if you maintain a 3.0 or better in the core curriculum. (they do the letter and the mailings and everything.)

as for the person asking about physics and orgo, i think physics is the easiest class in their post-bacc, but not necessarily as complete as it could be.
(make sure and do extra study for the MCAT.)

as for Orgo, I did it at harvard summer school and it was excellent. i hear there is a new orgo teacher coming in this term for the fall/spring.

According to the course catalog you have to get a 30 or above if your GPA is 2.8 or under. Does anybody know what the DAT scores(for dental) would mean getting sponsored with GPA under 2.8? Also when getting sponsoring how do they get the recommendations? Do you have get the letters and submit them to the health careers office?

Sponsorship

To qualify to be sponsored by the Health Careers Program, students must:

* Complete a minimum number of units with grades of B or better in medical sciences courses at Harvard Extension School or Harvard Summer School. Those with undergraduate grade-point averages (GPAs) of 3.2 or higher must complete 20 such units; those with undergraduate GPAs between 3.0 and 3.2 must complete 24; those with undergraduate GPAs between 2.8 and 3.0 must complete 28; and those with undergraduate GPAs below 2.8 must complete 32. Those with undergraduate GPAs below 3.0 are unlikely to gain admission to medical school; they also must score 30 or higher on the MCAT to be sponsored.
* Consult with the Health Careers Office at least once every term by telephone or office appointment.
* Notify the director of the Health Careers Program in writing of their intent to apply to medical school, listing courses completed and courses to be completed, no later than October 10 of the year preceding application to medical school.
* Finish all prerequisites by the end of the summer in which application to medical school is made. Program participants who are sponsored must pay a $500 sponsorship fee no later than June 20 of the application year. Students whose grades or MCAT scores need improvement will be advised to wait a year, during which time they must continue taking medically related courses.


The web site is pretty informative:

http://www.dce.harvard.edu/extension/hcp/ (http://http://www.dce.harvard.edu/extension/hcp/)


I'm not sure about dental school, but if you email the program they're generally good about getting back to you.

i took harvard extension physics both semesters- pretty well taught, the labs were excellent, as were my ta's.

i heard that orgo at HES is really difficult- this was coming from my physics lab TA, who was also pre-med and did some of her premed work at HES- she already had a phd and other master's degrees, and she found the orgo class incredibly cutthroat. she did well, but she spoke of it as more luck than anything. she discouraged her students from taking it if they could.

Hey All,

Sounds like there are a bunch of people who are interested or are already involved with the Harvard Extension School thang. Following up on BlankGuy's idea, let's all get together so we can exchange ideas and info over drinks and dinner.

I suggest meeting at John Harvard's in Harvard Square on Thursday, August 28th at 8:00pm. I'd be interested to see who will be around for the upcoming semester. Anyone taking Biochemistry!?

Who's in?

-hrq

I finally got a response on the question of sponsorship for dental schools. This is Owen Peterson's reply:

Thank you for your e-mail. To get sponsorship for dental school, as
for
medical school, one needs to complete a certain number of credits
through
the Extension School with grades of B or better. The number of credits
depends on the person's undergraduate GPA, from a minimum of 20 credits
to
a maximum of 32. if you would like an information flyer I would be
happy
to send one if you will give me your mailing address. The Extension
School
catalogue, which includes a section on the Health Careers Program, is
online at www.extension.harvard.edu.

With best wishes,
Owen Peterson
Assistant Director
Health Careers Program

For those of you who applied to the HCP, how long did it take to hear back from the school? I sent mine in a little while back, and am anxious to hear the verdict.

Thanks!
Marie

HRQ, I think I read your posting a lil too late :cool:

I've finally made it to Cambridge. Any of you all still wanna meet up?

Originally posted by hrq
Hey All,

Sounds like there are a bunch of people who are interested or are already involved with the Harvard Extension School thang. Following up on BlankGuy's idea, let's all get together so we can exchange ideas and info over drinks and dinner.

I suggest meeting at John Harvard's in Harvard Square on Thursday, August 28th at 8:00pm. I'd be interested to see who will be around for the upcoming semester. Anyone taking Biochemistry!?

Who's in?

-hrq

Just a quick question...

What age group are the students attending Harvard Extension School?

Another question...

Suppose a post-bacc student had excellent grades at HES but a poor undergraduated gpa (<2.9), what is the likelihood of him/her getting medical school acceptance(s), given that he/she shows passion and commitment to the field?

Just to throw my two cents in....I'm a Health Careers Program "grad", and am currently in my second year at Mt. Sinai in New York. All I can say is that my two years at Harvard were two of my best, both academically and socially.It's a inexpensive, high quality, low bureaucratic-nightmare program that allows you to work during the day. Plus, if you get a job at Harvard, which isn't all that hard, you can get free classes.

Academically, I found the courses superior and great prep for the MCAT and med school. ESPECIALLY Dr. Rubio's organic chemistry (it's a TRAFFIC JAM!!!).

My classmates went on to Harvard, Yale, and other well-respected programs, so if you can get through with reasonable grades, you have a great chance at a spot.
Plus, I found great camaraderie with my "older" classmates, and made lasting friendships with a few.

And of course, it's Haaaahhhvahd.

Incidentally, if you have any questions about the HES, email me at dangingold@hotmail.com. I'd be happy to talk to you about it.

Originally posted by goldie
Just to throw my two cents in....I'm a Health Careers Program "grad", and am currently in my second year at Mt. Sinai in New York. All I can say is that my two years at Harvard were two of my best, both academically and socially.

Goldie,
Thanks for your posting. It's good to hear a real-life evaluation of HCS. I took some computer sciences courses through Harvard Extension and Harvard Summer school years ago and had an excellent experience.

I'm excited about the Harvard Extension program for the very reasons you cited and I'm going to the open house this Thursday (1-29) so perhaps will run into some of the folks from this forum (not that we'll recognize each other necessarily).

One of the interesting things I learned when I called U-Mass School of Medicine is that they frown on summer school courses, preferring students to study during regular college semesters in regular undergraduate programs. I'm not sure why they dislike summer schools; Harvard summer school, at least, seems to be as rigorous as anywhere else. It's a bit worrisome and suggests that perhaps U-Mass has some conservative biases that would make them harder to get into for someone who has been in the working world for a few years. Anyone have any thoughts or experience on this?

-bp

I'm a "grad" of the Health Careers Program and am currently a second-year at Sinai. I have to say my two years at Harvard were not only academically challenging, but a whole lot of fun. The courses were well-taught, cheap (you can even get a free class per semester if you work parttime at Harvard), and the facilities are excellent...although you'll get sick of the science building pretty quick. Oh, and you have to take Rubio's organic chemistry...it's a TRAFFIC JAM!!!!!

I moved from NYC to Somerville to go there, and loved the standard of living. Although I believe it's gotten a bit more expensive.

Regarding the students....a very tight, non-competitive group from all walks of life. Much different than a bunch of back-stabbing gunners I've heard premeds are. I made quite a few friends in the program and there was plenty of life outside of class.

The vast majority of my fellow grads are in medical school somewhere, including lots of Ivies and such, and seem to be doing very well.

Do the Harvard thing...and hey, it's the same price as city college!

How much is HES? I looked all over the website and couldn't find an actual figure.

Also, does going to a program carry more weight than taking the reqs at my state univ.

Thanks :)

If you look on the website for each individual course it lists the price. Just as an example, I think one of the prerequisite biology classes was listed around $775. If you multiply that by 8 classes (assuming other classes are the same price and no inflation year-to-year), and budget for books and supplies, then the total cost is probably around $6500-$7000.

Is anybody out there going to HES to complete the prerequisites for dental school, as opposed to medical school. If so, I'd be interested in hearing about the advanced science classes that you've taken in order to make yourself more competitive.

Cheers,

Dan

SIMPLE QUESTION

I was wondering if anyone doing HES also took harvard summer classes. I want to take organic chem next fall/spring but i need to take chem II. Unfortunately, Harvard summer school is expensive so I might just take chem II at UMAss Boston.
Would it be a big deal if I take one class at a different school? I figure as long as I get good grades and raise my ugrad GPA (2.5 in engineering) it will be ok.
Any opinions about taking clases at different schools?

ALSO, I realize my GPA will not be 3.0 when I complete the basic pre-med reqs so does anyone have any suggestions about what type of master's programs to do after undergrad post-bacc???

Thanks

I've heard good things about this master's program at Boston University for those interested in medical school:

http://cobalt.bumc.bu.edu/current/Catalog/medsci/intro.htm

Unfortunately, one of their prerequisites is that you must have a 3.0 GPA, and have already taken the MCAT. So, I guess you would have to see how close you are to a 3.0 at the time you finish your post-bacc program. If you are close, then continue to take classes that will get you over that mark, and then possibly explore graduate school.

I hope this helps.

Would it be a big deal if I take one class at a different school? I figure as long as I get good grades and raise my ugrad GPA (2.5 in engineering) it will be ok.

TGC6

Have you thought about doing lots of volunteering during your post-bacc and applying for med schools right after that?

I am considering HES and have a similar UG GPA. I do not plan to complete a masters program after post bacc, however. I am counting on adcomms taking a good look at my improvement.

Ol' Blue Eyes

Thanks for replying,

I recently started volunteering at Brigham And Women's, where I also have been working as a lab technician. I will definitley apply to med school for admission in 2006 and take the April '05 MCAT. If I'm not admitted, i will then try to do a one year master's or a program wih linkage.

Right now I am taking genetics at HES and it's pretty good. not too much work and the group of students is diverse so they teach accordingly. I decided I will be taking chem II at Umass to save money and then returing to HES next fall/spring.


I think that if I get excellent grades while taking 3 courses (bio,physics, orgo) and preparing for the MCAT , plus volunteering, working part time, the adcomms will see that I can be successful in med school. I hope so.

had you taken any of the pre-med classes in ugrad that you are retaking? I am retaking physics because of the grades I had gotten and I have to retake bio because the one I took was for non-bio majors. I never took orgo. but I am really hoping that med schools will understand that my major was very difficult at Cornell.

Are you going to apply for 2006? Have you tkaen ANY HES classes? I posted a question about the orgo class there but noone replied. I just wanted to know if theere was a better professor this past year or if I should take it in the summer.

tcg----- you have a PM

Does anyone know if Harvard absolutely requires an undergraduate degree? I don't have one but going to the HCP @ Harvard Extension would finish off my requirments and my primary University would be willing to grant me such a degree.

Anyone?

Does anyone take 4 classes a term?? It seems do-able, since most only meet once a week...im not talking about post bacc prereqs, im talking about upper level sciences...I plan on enrolling in the Fall and taking Human Pathophysiology I, Neurobiology I, Intro to Topics in Microbiology, and Developmental Bone Biology, for a total of 16 credits...I was looking through the course syllabi and some old exams, and they really did not seem half as bad...can anyone who has taken these classes through the Extension school help me out??

Also, does anyone know anything about Housing in the Cambridge area...seems like apartments around the Commons and Brattle Street cost anywhere from 900-1500 for a one bedroom....anyone have any adivce?? Thanks

Originally posted by Columbia22
Does anyone take 4 classes a term?? It seems do-able, since most only meet once a week...im not talking about post bacc prereqs, im talking about upper level sciences...I plan on enrolling in the Fall and taking Human Pathophysiology I, Neurobiology I, Intro to Topics in Microbiology, and Developmental Bone Biology, for a total of 16 credits...I was looking through the course syllabi and some old exams, and they really did not seem half as bad...can anyone who has taken these classes through the Extension school help me out??

Also, does anyone know anything about Housing in the Cambridge area...seems like apartments around the Commons and Brattle Street cost anywhere from 900-1500 for a one bedroom....anyone have any adivce?? Thanks



4 classes- never heard of it. most I've seen/heard is 3, as most of us are working, doing research, volunteering, etc. so with 4, you probably wont have much time for anything else. but, if theyre only one night/week with no labs, then you may be able to swing it.

housing. dont know of too many people in the immediate area, as the rent there is crazy. maybe central/kendall area may be a little more doable. but i dont know- i live in boston, and thats bad enough. i lived in davis sq for a bit, and it wasnt so bad, rent wise. studios in the area run at least 1000, but more like 1150-1300 for a decent sized one in a decent neighborhood.


good luck. drop a line if you have more questions

So I just found out that the HCP only meets at night. This is ok, I guess, but limits a person to taking 2 and maybe three classes. I will be moving to the Harvard area just for the Extension School and now thinking "What will I do during the day?" Getting a job, volunteering or whatever. But I was thinking more along the lines of taking more classes, perhaps 1 or 2 more during the day.

But the questions is where/how?

Anyone?

Hey Colombia22. I'm in the same boat you are. I'm moving to Boston this summer for a Fall start at HES. I've always had good luck w/ roommates.com or roommateaccess.com. Good luck to you! :D

Originally posted by bstone
So I just found out that the HCP only meets at night. This is ok, I guess, but limits a person to taking 2 and maybe three classes. I will be moving to the Harvard area just for the Extension School and now thinking "What will I do during the day?" Getting a job, volunteering or whatever. But I was thinking more along the lines of taking more classes, perhaps 1 or 2 more during the day.

But the questions is where/how?

Anyone?


For part-time AM courses, consider possibly Simmons or Emmanuel, or even BU Metropolitan college(?).

Oh, and Tufts, too. But theyre very very expensive-- a chem class will run you about 2500, but they do meet in the mornings, as I recall.

I think we should start a Fall 2004 Harvard Extension Thread

I agree. I just got the HCP app in the mail and talked to Owen, the asst director, about some other questions. Let's see if the moderators here will open one up.

I am completing the postbac prog at the Harvard ext this year as I prepare for MCAT next Sat.

My experience here: excellent staffs, good reputation, high matriculation rate, low price, good advisor support (He will be very discouraging when you first talk to him. But that is his way of testing your will-power. After that he's very supportive.) , great classmates mostly very cooperative as far as helping each other out, sharing notes and old exams.

As to getting A's I've had no problem at all except that Orgo required more than 3 hours of studying before the exam plus that it's just not my type. Most of my study buddies are also getting A or A- and at least B+.

Sure there are few immature younger kids. But they don't bother you if you don't bother them. Sure there are people who get C or even Ds. But they are always there helping us by lowering the median average for curving, and that doesn't mean you can't get A when you put yourself into it.

In short the general atmosphere is cooperative, supportive, friendly, easy-going and understanding. I wonder why some postings above had very negative experiences. I never felt the classes giving me competition pressure.

If anyone of you are coming to the extension program, and would like some helpful infos including old exams, let me know. After I'm done with this MCAT and application thing, I will be free.

Somehow my posting is in the wrong place.

well, let it be.

Or is this the right place?

I don't know; I'm new to this.

I think it's right on the mark. Thanks for the feedback.

Peeps, help me out...

I'm trying to decide between doing the HES postbac program and just taking 6 upper level bio classes at Georgia Tech, my alma mater 2 be :)

The advising at HCP is awesome(Owen Peterson rocks!!) but since I have to move to a new state and find new housing, health insurance, parking space, etc, it'll cost ~20k + 2000 for tuition for the program. if i stay at tech, i get less excellent advising but a familiar environment, existing group of friends, etc. plus i can commute from home so all i have to pay is 3000 for all the classes.

so, what do you recommend? is the hcp curriculum/committee letter/advising worth enough to go to MA and do all this? or should i stay back at GT?

i guess i should mention, im trying to spruce up my sordid science gpa (~2.8 or so) and reapply. ive already taken the mcat so i dont need to worry about mcat prep/help, etc.

i realize this is a matter of chioce, but id like to see the different perspectives about this.

cheers
captjack

Yeah, Captainjack, I'm in the same boat. Either I move from CA to MA and attend Harvard Extension or go to UCLA extension. Tough decision, but mostly because of the major expense of moving.

Has anyone done their post-bacc at UCLA? They offer a certificate in Introductory Science that covers the sciences needed. I'm curious if there's anyone perusing this thread whose done it.

Neurobio is a great class, Dr. Murphy is a wonderful teacher, he keeps things lighthearted and he throws in anecdotes to keep the lecture from getting too stale. Definitely recommend this class. I asked him for a letter of rec and he wrote back promptly - I'll be having lunch with him in early May to get some face to face. Class is 50% midterm, 50% final.

Bone Bio is also a good class - although it's a bit out of the norm. Lecture is very upper division oriented, Dr. Shapiro uses some of his own published work to teach - don't get too lost in the papers, focus on his lectures. He's also very reachable by e-mail and makes time to see you in his office if you need to talk anything over. Midterm 25%, 75% final.

Don't underestimate the work for both these classes. With daily studying, getting A/A- for the midterms was not a problem. But with cumulative finals, the information can go hulkamania on you.

I know of only one person who took 4 classes/semester but I don't think their schedule included all 4 hard sciences - be careful how you approach this - midterms can be spaced apart according to professor's discretion but Harvard Extension forces finals to be within a 1.5-2 week period, so you'd possibly looking at taking finals on a Thursday - Saturday - Monday. Doesn't leave alot of room to decompress and move on to the next class' information.

Rent is brutal in Boston. I moved as soon as I finished my course requirement. Find a quiet place where you can study and don't bite off more than you can chew - if you're moving there primarily to get A's, don't burden yourself with extracurriculars if it eats into your studying. I thought the same thing when I started - Hey I have all this time during the day, I should do something - that idea quickly died when exams rolled around. Then I was glad I had the whole day to study because I really needed it.

I always kept in mind that this wasn't community/junior college - most if not all of my classmates were taking courses to get A's and boost that GPA - you don't want to mess with some of the grading curves I saw. Keep your focus!

Re. Housing in Cambridge!

I would recommend checking out Porter or Davis Square, both are in nice locations packed with young people, things to do and close by T (one stop to H) or walking to Harvard Square. Central square is also pretty good, but will probably be a bit more $$...Kendall Square is MIT domain, so also pretty expensive.

You will definitely be able to find a roommate situation in Porter, Davis maybe even Harvard Square area and get away with paying much less than $1000.00/month. Check out the housing ads on www.craigslist.org - you will find all you need!

I did not do the actual HCP thing, but took a few grad level courses at Harvard Extension via working at HMS and was very pleased. They are difficult and I echo what a previous poster said that you are in class with people who are there to do a good job - don't rely on the curve! Work hard, have fun and get to know your classmates. There should be a lot of people in your classes from all different walks of life, pretty cool.

Also, if you are interested in research, look for a part-time (or full time) position in a lab at either the College or Med school campus...if you work 17.5+ hours a week you can participate in the tuition assistance program and save some $$ on an already relatively affordable program. Check here for positions: http://www.atwork.harvard.edu/

I no longer work there, but enjoyed it while I did!

I'm getting all confused. :confused: :o Most people think I should do graduate credit because it shows a good gpa untainted by my bad undergrad gpa.

If undergrad GPA is a concern, the only way to make that look better is to take more undergrad courses! Grad courses, while impressive and variable in how they are perceived, do not allow you to be compared with most of your competition...undergrads applying to med school directly out of undergrad!

BTW, this information was disseminated to me directly from a PD at 'X' College of Medicine as I was going through the process years ago.

I am a 4th year medical student about to graduate and start residency this July. I participated in the HES program nearly 10 years ago. Here are some of my recollections:

The Director at the time was intimidating but realistic. Dr. Fixen was there at the time (not sure if he is anymore). He had experience with numerous students in similar situations to my own and many of the posters on this forum thread. The cold reality has to do with numbers, numbers, numbers. At the time during the late 1990's, applications to ACGME-approved medical schools ("allopathic") were at an all time high; things have certainly more than diminished in this regard. Statistically, your chances are much better today than they were 10 years ago. Dr. Fixen liked to use statistics in his meetings with me. I found them to be daunting, but if your resolve is there, keep pressing on.

With regards to his teaching style, he was exemplary! Throughout the first 2 years of basic sciences in medical school, I recall *countless* instances when I would recall lessons learned during Cell & Molecular Biology or Bio II (??organ biology??) as vividly as I'd first heard them. Rest assured, you will be VERY prepared for both the MCAT and medical school after taking his course. Be warned: the information presented in his course, as well as other HES pre-med courses, teaches the CONTENT of the MCAT. It is NOT (repeat, NOT!!!) a ticket to a great score -- you'll have to learn to apply it to the MCAT format, to draw upon the vast amount of knowledge you've received in the courses, applying it to novel or seemingly irrelevant or outright bizarre scenarios.

Of note: if you opt for Harvard Summer School, expect your costs for tuition alone to be proportionately MUCH higher per credit hour than you'd pay at the Extension school. If you can take 2 courses a semester for 2 years, you'll essentially finish by spring in time to take the April offering of the MCAT. Believe what you want, but admissions officers like you to take the APRIL MCAT, because MOST students take it at this time, and it offers them a chance to see you in the context of your peers.

Best of luck...it's all worth it!!!!!!

Harvard Extension is a good option for people who have a very good undergrad record but never took the sciences. A friend of mine graduated with me from Duke with a 3.8 in Economics. He worked at Goldman for years and then decided to go to Med School. He did the extension program because he was already in Boston.

He really wanted to do the Columbia program - he thought it was much better - but he was stuck in Boston and ended up liking the program as he did well and got into med school. He did say that he felt that the "Extension" school label was not well liked by the committee but they knew he was capable because of his MCAT and the UGPA.

If your UGPA is under a 3.3, I would not do the Harvard program. I don't think it attracts the "best" as people have suggested.

The other alternatives are UMass Boston(taking courses a la carte), Tufts, BU and Brandeis. UMass-Boston in the next cheapest option after the extension school and is totally unstructured. Some of the people that ahve ended up at UMass say that Harvard is too competitive to their liking. I would have given Harvard a shot but my GPA is too low to risk it.

MCAT experience was a good one, no surprises and no particulary hard questions. In relation to Harvard E. courses, I must say Physics and Bio were really excellent preparation for the MCAT. They truly well prepared us for it. Orgo, yes, although I don't like the subject itself, I must say it did help me with one entire passage. But Orgo on MCAT is so simplistic that I spent only a day and a half on Orgo 4 days before the MCAT and that was sufficient. One doesn't even need take orgo course to do well on it. Gen chem there has the best teaching style of all and it's fun but the approach is more calculation based unlike the concept based MCAT.

In short, if you are doing well in these courses there, you will do well enough on the MCAT. More precisely, if you are A grader, 30+ is no problem. If you are B grader, 30 is manageable.

I have a friend who did Harvard's ext. program to finish his pre-med requirements. He generally liked it and got into med school.

Hi, I am wondering if you can tell me about your friend's Harvard extension experience. I am really feeling helpless here. I have a B.A. in Cognitive Science and would really love to get a M.D. in psychiatry. However, after extensive search on PBPM or pre-med programs for non-premed college grads, I am even more confused. Is there a difference in pre-med programs? Can any pre-med program prepare me for psychiatry? Also, which specific Harvard extension program I should apply to? I looked up on Harvard extension website and the only program that I think it's close to what I need is the certificate health career program, but...I still don't think that is the one I need....Any suggestion, advise, and help will be greatly appreciated...Sabinna