Harvard Extension School

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amy@vandy

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Hey all,

Does anyone know anything about the post-bacc courses offered through Harvard's Extension School? Any opinions would be great.

Thanks!

Amy
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Hi-

While I was working in Boston, I took Endocrine Physiology through the extension school. I had been doing a lot of basic science research and was thinking about what I wanted to do, so my boss suggested I take that class to get some more "clinical" background (I mean just human biology/disease, I didn't do anything in a clinical setting). The prof was nice enough. Everyone in the class was trying to get in to medical school. Some kids came from all over just to have "Harvard" on their application. However, I found the *Majority* of the kids to be cutthroat, unfriendly, and elitist. The caveat is that the course IS(well, was) interesting. Plus, there were people that were genuinely friendly and nice.

My advice is to look into BU's MA program. It is VERY successful and a friend of mine did it (additionally, I think it is shorter than the Harvard "certificate" premed program). He said that since everyone has the same goal (Just to do well) the competition isn't nearly as bad. It is comprised mostly of people who recently finished college, so the crowd is younger and the kids will socialize. Unlike the Georgetown program, the BU students aren't competing for a limited number of spots in the medical school class. The BU kids are looked upon favorably by BU (provided they do well) but ultimately go on to many different schools.

Best of luck
FG
 
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I have a friend who did Harvard's ext. program to finish his pre-med requirements. He generally liked it and got into med school.
 
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I think you have to be carefull about where you do your post-bac program. You obviously need A's in your post- bac to stand a chance of getting into medical school. And you know Harvard is going to attract the best and the brightest among the people who didn't get in. There is going to be a lot of gunners aiming for that A. It seems like a steep price to pay for the Harvard name.

I would seriously do some research and find out from STUDENTS which post-bac is worth it and which post-bac programs aren't shy about giving A's. Because let's face it , at this point it's all about politics and not about how much you learn. I don't care if I learn more at Harvard if it's going to cost me a B in a class when I could take elsewhere and get an A, which looks a lot better. This is especially true if you are trying to raise your overall GPA.
 
Don't forget that Harvard Extension is MUCH cheaper than BU's MA in Medical Sciences program. We're talking a difference of about $30,000/year. Plus, Harvard Extension does not require you to complete a thesis, which often takes an additional year after a year of coursework.

If your undergrad GPA hangs around 3.1 to 3.5, go to Harvard. If your undergrad GPA is < 3.0, go to BU. Eithe way, be prepared to work your ass off.

Cheers,

PH
 
Hi there,

Quick, related question: so if you have straight As in a post-Bacc program but a silly undergrad GPA (silly, as in :( ), are the big schools (including the Ivys) going to give you a chance to interview and a shot at snagging an M1 seat? What's been the precedent?

Cheers,
Kirsteen
 
Originally posted by KirsteenB
Hi there,

Quick, related question: so if you have straight As in a post-Bacc program but a silly undergrad GPA (silly, as in :( ), are the big schools (including the Ivys) going to give you a chance to interview and a shot at snagging an M1 seat? What's been the precedent?

Cheers,
Kirsteen
Click to expand...

I don't know the answer. Maybe some others can shed some light on this. But I'm guessing that the Ivy's and top medical schools won't forgive low GPA's even with a killer post-bac record. They have too many top students that apply for them to forgive a really low GPA. I think the exception is if you do a post-bac program at an Ivy-League school such as Columbia.
 
I just finished a postbac in Illinois and I had multiple classmates get accepted to multiple top 10 schools this year...a bad undergraduate GPA is not neccessarily a death wish
 
How good is an ALB degree from Harvard Extension? Does it carry the same Harvard prestige? Anyone can do it, so how do med/grad schools look at it?
 
Originally posted by thesocialbeast
I just finished a postbac in Illinois and I had multiple classmates get accepted to multiple top 10 schools this year...a bad undergraduate GPA is not neccessarily a death wish
Click to expand...

That's really encouraging news. It's nice to see that top schools are forgiving.
 
Originally posted by pasific
How good is an ALB degree from Harvard Extension? Does it carry the same Harvard prestige? Anyone can do it, so how do med/grad schools look at it?
Click to expand...

Obviously, I don't think they will give it the same credence as someone who attended Harvard full time. At the same time, if you have maintain a high GPA at this program, it's going to look good no matter what. It's Harvard and many of the courses will be taught by the same Harvard staff. I think you would be set if you graduated from the program with a 3.5 or higher.
 
While some of the upper division courses are easier than others, it's the competition that can be brutal.

Example: Immunology - difficult course, one midterm, one final, cutoff for an A on the midterm: 92. Conveniently, one question was made to be worth 10 points and involved recognizing one small figure out of many in the book, miss that question entirely and you're out of luck. Final was just as difficult. also should mention cutoff for an A on the midterm as a graduate student was a 94 or 95.

Example: Physiology - easier course, one midterm, one final, average grade for the midterm was an 88! Syllabus said no curve just straight grading but final was so difficult that class ended up having to be curved as apparently many people bombed it.

Silver lining: the classes are relatively cheap, the program is well recognized, most courses well taught (most, not all), and you will learn if you study. Just beware that if you're caught slipping just once on an exam and you could possibly have lost the A for the semester.

my turn: anyone taken some upper division science courses at Harvard Ext that they'd recommend? I'm looking for a few more courses. Not looking for vague courses like Perspectives on HIV, more for classes like Neurobiology etc. Many thanks in advance.
 
here we go-

i'm just finishing evolution of comparative vertebrate anatomy at the extension school. it's an awesome coures- i highly recommend it.

i took biochem a few semesters back. it was hell. competition was brutal. whole course was curved so that the average was raised 73. half the class dropped after the midterm- which only made the competition worse. wouldn't recommend it at all.


my understanding is that neurobiology is difficult, but on the whole very manageable. a friend in the course this summer said the midterm avg. was 53- so a curve definitely comes into play in this course.

thanks for the info on human phys. i'm enrolling in it and the intro bio course this fall. fun stuff.
 
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Originally posted by Rdhdstpkd
here we go-

i'm just finishing evolution of comparative vertebrate anatomy at the extension school. it's an awesome coures- i highly recommend it.

i took biochem a few semesters back. it was hell. competition was brutal. whole course was curved so that the average was raised 73. half the class dropped after the midterm- which only made the competition worse. wouldn't recommend it at all.


my understanding is that neurobiology is difficult, but on the whole very manageable. a friend in the course this summer said the midterm avg. was 53- so a curve definitely comes into play in this course.

thanks for the info on human phys. i'm enrolling in it and the intro bio course this fall. fun stuff.
Click to expand...

Harvard sounds like an excellent program. It is a gamble though. If you succeed in the program, you are good to go. However, if you fail to get those A's, it's almost as if it were a waste of your time. As I feared, the competiton at Harvard is indeed brutal.
 
Hi,

I'm seriously considering moving to Cambridge because of family in that area (who doesn't love Boston anyway?). Can any of you comment on the core pre-med classes at the extention school? e.g. Organic Chem & Physics; I'll be graduating next year without taking these two classes (lets just say I switched majors very late in the game, my schedule didn't work out as well as I've liked it to); my college is filled with cut-throat pre-meds -- I''ve known from experience to stay the hell away from these types of people.


Thanks
 
Omniatlas,
I've heard the classes are well-taught but the competition is basically just as tough anywhere else. Plenty of Ivy League students and others who've made substantial commitments to a career in medicine. Regardless, Organic Chemistry is tough anywhere.

Rdhdstpkd,
I'm also enrolling in Physio I this fall (I took Physio II out of sequence) so see you in a month or so. I'm taking 2 other classes, possibly Neurobiology and Developmental Bone Biology. Also considering Comparative Vertebrate Anatomy. Or I may mix it up with BioStats or Pathophysiology. Anyways, this'll be my last semester, and I'm actually looking forward to returning to Los Angeles and taking on the MCAT next April.
 
Originally posted by thesocialbeast
I just finished a postbac in Illinois and I had multiple classmates get accepted to multiple top 10 schools this year...a bad undergraduate GPA is not neccessarily a death wish
Click to expand...

What was your GPA? Around 2.5-3.0?
 
Originally posted by here we go
Omniatlas,
I've heard the classes are well-taught but the competition is basically just as tough anywhere else. Plenty of Ivy League students and others who've made substantial commitments to a career in medicine. Regardless, Organic Chemistry is tough anywhere.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info; are classes usually structured with only 2 tests, a mid-term and a final?

If I decide to enroll in the extension school, I'll probably be balancing a job and 3 classes (2 classes with lab) -- i believe it'll be doable as long as there aren't tests every week (my bio class last semester killed me with 12 tests...yes, 12 AND in addition a 10 page lab write-up).
 
This talk of competition being cutthroat and people not being friendly is making me squeamish. Sounds like it would be a big gamble for me(but then again its a gamble anywhere for me).
What are the advantages of opting to go to BU?
Does BU offer graduate courses through the metropolitan college?
I just read that you have to be matriculated in a certificate program or a degree program in order to be able to cross register to the day College of Arts and Sciences(which costs extra $$$$).
All I see is upper level Biology and Clinical science courses, would those count as grad courses?
 
blankguy,

i don't know too much about the met. i considered enrolling in a couple of classes this fall b/c i was having scheduling conflicts with some of the extension classes. in the end i decided against it because of cost. it's much more expensive than the extention school. that being said, i've known a couple of people who did their pre-reqs through the met and they were happy with the quality of the classes.

as for the competitive nature of the ext. school...... i think it's just the nature of pre-med students. anywhere you go to school with the intent of post-bac pre-med you'll run into some intensely competitive people. i prefer to compete against myself rather than those around me. not everyone will be cutthroat. i'm always willing to help fellow classmates and i've met quite a few that are the same way. 'here we go' was right on the money when he mentioned that the students had made a 'substantial comittment' to their path, the comittment and the drive to succeed make us all a little uptight. i've met some people i could do without, but also made friends - don't let the competition scare you.
 
Thanks for the words of encouragement. How is it at the lower level postbacc courses at harvard?
 
omniatlas,

Physio II and Immunology II during Winter semester 2003 were structured one midterm and one final. No quizzes or extra credit.

I also took Eukaryotic Cell Biology, completely different, 2 midterms and a final as well as problem sets every week or so. These were worth about 25% of the grade. This class definitely took up the majority of my time.

I didn't work or volunteer so I could focus on my schoolwork, having been out of the classroom for about 3 years, I was nervous about being a student again. It paid off though, I ended up with 2 A's and an A-. I think I'm still adjusting my studying style, hopefully my Fall semester studying will be more efficient, I want to do more clinical volunteering.

Of those that I spoke to, none held a full-time job, several held part-time jobs, some did volunteering, but most focused on their schoolwork. I'm not saying holding a full-time job will sink you, but it can get pretty rough if your exam days are near each other. Perhaps you can request days off the week before exams? Not trying to scare you, but just to let you know, a majority of those you're competing against won't be holding a full-time job.

Best of luck with your decision.
 
Thanks; I'll probably pick up a part time job and try and juggle with my classes; most of them only meet once or twice a week with weekend labs yeh?

Does anyone know how the EMT market is in Boston? I might decide to get certified; I've heard med-tech jobs are saturated in the big cities and might instead pursue the research (albeit not as exciting) route.
 
Let me ask your opinion, those that have taken classes at Harvard Extension School. I'm a research assistant Mon-Fri, and I work approximately 10-4. Do you think it's possible to take both chem and physics, and still do well?

Thanks for your input!

Amy
 
Hi Here We go,
where are you taking your courses?
 
Blankguy,
I'm at Harvard Ext.

Amy,
Yes you can get A's in those 2 classes, just budget time accordingly, and make sure you clear your calendar the week before exams and study very hard. It's a case of self-empowerment. I met one AMAZING girl last semester who took 4(!) classes at Harvard while doing part-time research and continuous auditioning (she was an actress). i believe she got straight A's.

good luck.
 
Do they keep track of separate Graduate GPA if I pay for the graduate rate on a course(assuming it is an option) even though I would be taking a course as a nonmatriculating student(not formally in any graduate certificate or degree program)?

I'm really suprised at the number of people on this board residing in Boston.:) Maybe we should have a get together :D

Oh, and also I noticed that the basic prereqs like Chemistry Biology and physics are listed as one course instead of 1 1/2 since they include labs.

Just out of curiosity who's your favorite teacher at the extension school?
 
Hello everyone. I'm really happy to see so many people are considering making the choice to start classes at Harvard Extension School this fall.

I'm hoping that some of you experienced post-bacs can tell me if it's realistic for me to enroll in three classes at once (Bio I, Chem I, and Physics I). Each of them has a lab, and some have discussion groups, etc. The plan would be to take these classes for a year, and then buckle down and take Orgo from Harvard Summer School...and then take the August 04 or April 05 MCAT...hoping for a Sept 06 admit. I travel M-F, so yes...I'll have to quit my job and either be a full time student or try to find a mindless job that will allow me to study.

I've been working as a consultant for a large firm for the past three years, so I'm not afraid of long hours or hard work...I am afraid of spending three years unemployed just to get into med school if I can get it done (pre-reqs, MCAT, apps, decision) in two.

Anyone have any insight? Anyone else tried this route or considering this route?

Am I nuts to think this is possible?

Thanks for your help.
 
That's a pretty heavy load. That's the equivalent of 4.5 courses in traditional undergrad.:eek:
Being a wimp (at this point). I'm contemplating taking chem, the Physics next summer then orgo and Bio the following year. It's just the last time I've handled natural sciences was 10 yrs ago so I don't want to risk it.

Does anybody know if I register in an upper level course as a graduate student the GPA for that course will be kept separate or do I have to be formally enrolled in a graduate program to be counted as a graduate gpa eventhough I paid graduate rate?
At this point my GPA sucks so I probably won't be able to enroll in the traditional way(apply etc...).
 
2 quick questions....

do people often start at extension in the spring semester??

i'm interested in getting the master's degree, mainly so i can have something to show for myself after completing the program. would it still be possible for me to count grades earned in these classes towards my undergrad gpa on my application, since (from what i understand) there would be "undergraduates" in the class as well?

bonus question:

is the program really "open admission"??

thanks!!!!

french fries = good
 
One more quick question -- does anyone have any information on working with Harvard affiliated research centers and getting a reduced Harvard Ext. tution? I remember reading on SDN some time ago that some members were able to wave their tuition, attending classes (for free!) and researching at one of their hospitals at the same time.
 
blankguy,
You have to designate which type of credit you want for each class you take (Undergrad, Grad, or No Credit), so any class you take as a graduate student will be recorded as a graduate course, regardless of being in a formal program or not.

tjs02116,
Speaking with one of the Harvard Ext. advisors, I believe most people taking those pre-req's did 2 a semester while working part-time. There definitely were those who did 3 a semester to finish faster but they were full-time students. You have to judge whether you can get A's while taking 3. Try taking 3, gauge your progress up until the last day that you can drop the class without notation, then decide if the pace is right for you.

LordoftheFries,
I started extension in the Spring. I have no info on the master's program (which one are you talking about?). Most likely you will have to take them for Graduate credit which means they won't add to your undergraduate GPA. In all 3 of my Spring classes graduate and undergraduate students attended the same lectures but had different discussion groups. Graduates also had additional material to cover, extra responsibilites like papers or presentations, and on average, their grading curves were higher.
 
Here we go,
what worries me is that they(admissions people at dental schools which I seem to have trouble getting in touch with) might wonder if I took grad courses without being part of any program(grad certificate, masters, etc...).
 
the harvard program is 'open enrollment' however there is a certificate program that you have to be 'admitted' to. Admisions reqs for the certificate program depend on on your undergraduate gpa. in most cases it's just a comment to take 'x' number of credits- the lower your undergrad gpa the more credits you'll be required to take. if you maintain a certain gpa and score a 30 or above on the mcat you'll get a committee letter from harvard- if not you'll have to use a letter collection service. from what i can tell the committee letter is the only point in entering the formal program.

as for graduate credits- i wouldn't do it. i have a masters and all of that work goes into a separate gpa- doing nothing to raise my silly undergraduate gpa. there is an overall feeling with medical schools that a graduate gpa is terribly inflated. i know that this isn't always the case and that any perceived inflation can be attributed to the fact that you cannot be granted a masters without maintaining a certain gpa blah, blah, blah.... i could go on about this for hours. anyway, i'm not sure how it is with dental school, but for medical school i would do undergraduate courses so the gpa will be averaged with you undergrad gpa.
 
I'm getting all confused. :confused: :oops: Most people think I should do graduate credit because it shows a good gpa untainted by my bad undergrad gpa.
 
thanks for the info

here's the master's track i was talking about... it sounds like 10 courses taken for graduate credit = what they call a "master's in liberal arts". i'm hoping that this could be knocked out in a year, might have to do some summer schooling as well though. does anyone have any info on this degree (ie is it respected at all among med school admissions folk)

i guess hoping that i could still apply these credits to my "undergrad" gpa was wishful thinking. oh well. i still think it's the best option for me-- i did all my premeds in undergrad, but finished up with a 2.9 after a little too much fraternity. i did pull off a 34 on the mcat though. so undergrad courses probably aren't the way to go for me, right?? any thoughts are much appreciated
 
How does the sponsorship at Harvard work? Other post-bacc programs have to accept you, but that doesn't seem to be the case at Harvard, do they sponsor you after you do the coursework. When do you have to submit the necessary materials(transcripts,etc...)?

I know people have posted bits of information about how tough harvard courses are. I still do not have a good picture of how tough they are. Which biology courses tend to be the toughest and which tend to be the easier(not necessarily that they are easy but relatively easy in relation to other courses) of the bunch?
 
harvard will sponsor you out of post-bacc if you maintain a 3.0 or better in the core curriculum. (they do the letter and the mailings and everything.)

as for the person asking about physics and orgo, i think physics is the easiest class in their post-bacc, but not necessarily as complete as it could be.
(make sure and do extra study for the MCAT.)

as for Orgo, I did it at harvard summer school and it was excellent. i hear there is a new orgo teacher coming in this term for the fall/spring.
 
According to the course catalog you have to get a 30 or above if your GPA is 2.8 or under. Does anybody know what the DAT scores(for dental) would mean getting sponsored with GPA under 2.8? Also when getting sponsoring how do they get the recommendations? Do you have get the letters and submit them to the health careers office?
 
Sponsorship

To qualify to be sponsored by the Health Careers Program, students must:

* Complete a minimum number of units with grades of B or better in medical sciences courses at Harvard Extension School or Harvard Summer School. Those with undergraduate grade-point averages (GPAs) of 3.2 or higher must complete 20 such units; those with undergraduate GPAs between 3.0 and 3.2 must complete 24; those with undergraduate GPAs between 2.8 and 3.0 must complete 28; and those with undergraduate GPAs below 2.8 must complete 32. Those with undergraduate GPAs below 3.0 are unlikely to gain admission to medical school; they also must score 30 or higher on the MCAT to be sponsored.
* Consult with the Health Careers Office at least once every term by telephone or office appointment.
* Notify the director of the Health Careers Program in writing of their intent to apply to medical school, listing courses completed and courses to be completed, no later than October 10 of the year preceding application to medical school.
* Finish all prerequisites by the end of the summer in which application to medical school is made. Program participants who are sponsored must pay a $500 sponsorship fee no later than June 20 of the application year. Students whose grades or MCAT scores need improvement will be advised to wait a year, during which time they must continue taking medically related courses.


The web site is pretty informative:

http://www.dce.harvard.edu/extension/hcp/


I'm not sure about dental school, but if you email the program they're generally good about getting back to you.
 
i took harvard extension physics both semesters- pretty well taught, the labs were excellent, as were my ta's.

i heard that orgo at HES is really difficult- this was coming from my physics lab TA, who was also pre-med and did some of her premed work at HES- she already had a phd and other master's degrees, and she found the orgo class incredibly cutthroat. she did well, but she spoke of it as more luck than anything. she discouraged her students from taking it if they could.
 
Hey All,

Sounds like there are a bunch of people who are interested or are already involved with the Harvard Extension School thang. Following up on BlankGuy's idea, let's all get together so we can exchange ideas and info over drinks and dinner.

I suggest meeting at John Harvard's in Harvard Square on Thursday, August 28th at 8:00pm. I'd be interested to see who will be around for the upcoming semester. Anyone taking Biochemistry!?

Who's in?

-hrq
 
I finally got a response on the question of sponsorship for dental schools. This is Owen Peterson's reply:

Thank you for your e-mail. To get sponsorship for dental school, as
for
medical school, one needs to complete a certain number of credits
through
the Extension School with grades of B or better. The number of credits
depends on the person's undergraduate GPA, from a minimum of 20 credits
to
a maximum of 32. if you would like an information flyer I would be
happy
to send one if you will give me your mailing address. The Extension
School
catalogue, which includes a section on the Health Careers Program, is
online at www.extension.harvard.edu.

With best wishes,
Owen Peterson
Assistant Director
Health Careers Program
 
For those of you who applied to the HCP, how long did it take to hear back from the school? I sent mine in a little while back, and am anxious to hear the verdict.

Thanks!
Marie
 
HRQ, I think I read your posting a lil too late :cool:

I've finally made it to Cambridge. Any of you all still wanna meet up?

Originally posted by hrq
Hey All,

Sounds like there are a bunch of people who are interested or are already involved with the Harvard Extension School thang. Following up on BlankGuy's idea, let's all get together so we can exchange ideas and info over drinks and dinner.

I suggest meeting at John Harvard's in Harvard Square on Thursday, August 28th at 8:00pm. I'd be interested to see who will be around for the upcoming semester. Anyone taking Biochemistry!?

Who's in?

-hrq
Click to expand...
 
Just a quick question...

What age group are the students attending Harvard Extension School?
 
Another question...

Suppose a post-bacc student had excellent grades at HES but a poor undergraduated gpa (<2.9), what is the likelihood of him/her getting medical school acceptance(s), given that he/she shows passion and commitment to the field?
 
Just to throw my two cents in....I'm a Health Careers Program "grad", and am currently in my second year at Mt. Sinai in New York. All I can say is that my two years at Harvard were two of my best, both academically and socially.It's a inexpensive, high quality, low bureaucratic-nightmare program that allows you to work during the day. Plus, if you get a job at Harvard, which isn't all that hard, you can get free classes.

Academically, I found the courses superior and great prep for the MCAT and med school. ESPECIALLY Dr. Rubio's organic chemistry (it's a TRAFFIC JAM!!!).

My classmates went on to Harvard, Yale, and other well-respected programs, so if you can get through with reasonable grades, you have a great chance at a spot.
Plus, I found great camaraderie with my "older" classmates, and made lasting friendships with a few.

And of course, it's Haaaahhhvahd.
 
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