do med schools look unfavorably on overweight people?

overweight maybe not.

obese probably.

dcgirl2007 said:

let's assume 3.8 GPA and 37 MCAT but very heavy.

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You just called me arrogant, do you really want my opinion? lol

dcgirl2007 said:

let's assume 3.8 GPA and 37 MCAT but very heavy.

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Probably, if you're going into a health profession and you aren't healthy by your own choice it might say something about you. A student applying to medical school should probably have some general knowledge about all of the problems associated with obesity, and if you don't follow to choose medical advice to lose weight, why should a patient with COPD of CHF listen to your advice to to stop smoking, when you don't even address your own health problems.
But that's just my 2 cents.

do med schools look unfavorably on overweight people?

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I would hope so. If there is anything that pisses me off more than losing, it's losing to someone who could have starred opposite Gregory Peck in one of his best films.

dcgirl2007 said:

let's assume 3.8 GPA and 37 MCAT but very heavy.

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you need at least a 3.85/38+MCAT to overcome obsesity at a open-file interview.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=307673&page=3


Three pages of this topic at the above link.

Who would you rather look at for an hour of your life? A fat person or someone who is physically fit/not obese?

would a guy who is very muscular and in shape have an advantage in an interview over a very skinny person?

Are we arguing whether or not being fit and attractive confers certain advantages to people? I think its been shown that it does, to some extent. Does it mean you can succeed if you are not beautiful or atleast fit? Of course not. At the end of the day why ask. Are you looking to change yourself? If so do it and don't worry whether its going to increase your chances of getting in to med school or not. There are a multitude of advantages to being healthy and looking good that go way beyond whether or not you get into med school. If you are asking because you feel you are physically unattractive or overweight but you are unable to change that at the moment, why even bother? You aren't going to change before the interview.

It's funny how this topic keeps resurfacing, and I don't think the overweight or obese people are the ones who keep bringing it up...

I probably posted on the old thread too, but I personally would discriminate to some extent against overweight persons if I were an adcom member. Physically fit people go into medical school and become fat because of the stress/lack of exercise. I can't imagine what happens to people who are already fat.

There are other reasons I'd discriminate, but I am biased. I used to be overweight my entire life until I took responsibility and got in shape. I really have no sympathy for overweight people's plight now.

midn said:

I probably posted on the old thread too, but I personally would discriminate to some extent against overweight persons if I were an adcom member. Physically fit people go into medical school and become fat because of the stress/lack of exercise. I can't imagine what happens to people who are already fat.

There are other reasons I'd discriminate, but I am biased. I used to be overweight my entire life until I took responsibility and got in shape. I really have no sympathy for overweight people's plight now.

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Generalizing your experience to others is pretty ignorant. While you may have been able to overcome your obesity with whatever methods you used, not everyone can. There are many individuals who try everything possible to lose weight, but simply cannot do it. Of course, this probably does not apply to the majority.

I think most med schools won't care if you are a little overweight considering I've seen some fat doctors and med students. However, if you are very obese, then it may count against you. Patients would probably go like "wtf, he/she can't take care of his/her own health, why am I trusting them?" and it would be an obstacle if you wanted to go into surgery.

Tired said:

And maybe if you tell that lie long enough, everyone will believe it.

While you're at it, tell us about how it's all genetic, or there's a virus that makes people obese.

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It's unfortunate that a lot of people use an excuse for their obesity problem. However, there is a very small minority (i would say less than 0.1%) that do have endocrine problems that make it impossible for them to lose weight. I personally knew someone with Cushings disease (which is very rare) and they ate a very healthy diet but kept on gaining weight and always felt very tired.

While you would probably have a hard time finding anyone who would admit to favoring thin people in the interview process, the process is subjective and tends, in general, to favor good looking, confident appearing, easy to talk to people. If you look at the entering class of most medical schools, you'll see obese and overweight people are underrepresented.

As far as the comments above regarding being "unhealthy by choice", most of our obese patients have a very hard time losing weight, even on a very modest scale, even when they are quite motivated.

Best,
Anka

rogerwilco said:

Often times the reason for not being successful despite motivation is lack of education. The plethora of myths surrounding diet/exercise/weight loss is unbelievable. The vast majority of people I have ever talked to who had some sort of goal to lose weight/get in shape were grossly misinformed as to how one should properly go about this.

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Are you aware of any studies demonstrating efficacy at 2 or more years from ANY dietary education program? The only effective intervention I'm aware of is gastric bypass surgery (not saying I'm aware of everything... weight loss definitly isn't a big topic of interest for me).

Best,
Anka

Tired said:

And maybe if you tell that lie long enough, everyone will believe it.

While you're at it, tell us about how it's all genetic, or there's a virus that makes people obese.

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I have a friend who used to be thin. Is now overweight. Damn must be his fault for taking pills for his cystic fibrosis that slow his metabolism to a crawl.

Maybe he should just run mo......oh wait.



Goddamn what a dumb post

Revenant said:

I have a friend who used to be thin. Is now overweight. Damn must be his fault for taking pills for his cystic fibrosis that slow his metabolism to a crawl.

Maybe he should just run mo......oh wait.



Goddamn what a dumb post

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Lemme get this straight, you're going to tell me the fact that you have a friend with cystic fibrosis who is overweight means something in reference to Tired's comment that obesity (in general a primary condition) is secondary to a lack of will... and then you're going to call Tired's post dumb. The plural of antecdote ain't data.

Anka

Damn must be his fault for taking pills for his cystic fibrosis that slow his metabolism to a crawl.

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I am assuming you're referring to the pancreatic enzyme supplementation, which is the most common form of nutritional supplementation in CF. They don't slow the metabolism, they just make it so he actually absorbs what he eats. Rapid weight gain during the supplementation is not uncommon as they usually don't adjust their caloric and protein intake. If you are going to accuse someone of being dumb, I recommend you at least be able to explain how your friend's treatment is causing what you are citing.

BTW, Tired was speaking about those who blame their genes while they have a case of Tab under one arm and a case of Twinkies under the other. MOST people do not have anyone but themselves to blame for their weight problems. It is simply easier to have a scapegoat- just like with premeds who blame their poor performance on everything from bad professors to depression, etc.

SigurRos said:

Generalizing your experience to others is pretty ignorant. While you may have been able to overcome your obesity with whatever methods you used, not everyone can. There are many individuals who try everything possible to lose weight, but simply cannot do it. Of course, this probably does not apply to the majority.

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I am quite certain the majority of people who are overweight are not due to the very small percentage of metabolic disorders out there.

You're yet another enabler. It was persons like you that made it impossible for me to accept responsibility. I'm not going to waste time defending my position because you know your previous statement was for the sake of argument.

Dienekes said:

I am assuming you're referring to the pancreatic enzyme supplementation, which is the most common form of nutritional supplementation in CF. They don't slow the metabolism, they just make it so he actually absorbs what he eats. Rapid weight gain during the supplementation is not uncommon as they usually don't adjust their caloric and protein intake. If you are going to accuse someone of being dumb, I recommend you at least be able to explain how your friend's treatment is causing what you are citing.

BTW, Tired was speaking about those who blame their genes while they have a case of Tab under one arm and a case of Twinkies under the other. MOST people do not have anyone but themselves to blame for their weight problems. It is simply easier to have a scapegoat- just like with premeds who blame their poor performance on everything from bad professors to depression, etc.

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You don't think this affects performance significantly? I agree though, if you suspect this is the case then it is your responsibility to deal with your mental health so that you can perform at your best. Sometimes there is a lag between the former and the latter though.

rpm said:

It's unfortunate that a lot of people use an excuse for their obesity problem. However, there is a very small minority (i would say less than 0.1%) that do have endocrine problems that make it impossible for them to lose weight. I personally knew someone with Cushings disease (which is very rare) and they ate a very healthy diet but kept on gaining weight and always felt very tired.

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I want to thank you for bringing this point up! I personally have a chronic disease that has caused weight gain for years (Im overweight not obese now)... once diagnosed meds have begun to help but I can never be the sexy model type.... so hopefully that will be something considered

But in all honesty I also what a doctor who is healthy- not particularly skinny as skinny people can have med issues too- but just healthy-it is something I would consider- the same way I want to die laughing when at a hospital and watching MD's smoke outside.

The number of med students that work out is insane. Even if you didn't do it before, you feel coaxed into running or working out just because everyone else is too.

I would say my class has a decent distribution of thin-overweight-obese. If someone has a 37 and a 3.8, I honestly believe they would have to be obese to the point of being unable to perform the daily tasks required of a physician before it became an issue (we're talking hundreds of pounds overweight).

Drogba said:

You don't think this affects performance significantly? I agree though, if you suspect this is the case then it is your responsibility to deal with your mental health so that you can perform at your best. Sometimes there is a lag between the former and the latter though.

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I do not doubt that it affects performance, however I also believe that one should not make excuses if they are going to try to overcome it. Simply throwing your hands up and going "But I was depressed!" is not a valid reply when someone asks why you bombed a semester or two. It sounds like you're just making an excuse (which is exactly what you are doing in all actuality).

the same way I want to die laughing when at a hospital and watching MD's smoke outside

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A lot of those MDs are accompanied by the RTs. Now that is hypocritical.

My PBL instructor once told me about how the CT surgeons at MD Anderson could all be seen coming out of rounds and heading to the smoking section of the McDonalds (attached to the hospital, no less) where they would proceed to chain smoke and scarf down big macs.

Medicine is something of a self-destructive business if you ask me.

Anka said:

Lemme get this straight, you're going to tell me the fact that you have a friend with cystic fibrosis who is overweight means something in reference to Tired's comment that obesity (in general a primary condition) is secondary to a lack of will... and then you're going to call Tired's post dumb. The plural of antecdote ain't data.

Anka

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And where is his data?

I fought anecdote with anecdote. Then again I'm not the one making dumb generalizations.

Only "restaurant" in my schools children's hospital? McDonalds. I always found that ironic.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6547891.stm

There is certainly a biological aspect to obesity, but its certainly not helped by people's very poor lifestyles. Even with a genetic predisposition I would think you could overcome it if you approached the problem properly, albeit with a lot more work and dedication than someone who did not have the same predisposition. The worst possible outcome would be to use genetics as an excuse for defeatism and people often look for an excuse to deflect blame from themselves.

Revenant said:

And where is his data?

I fought anecdote with anecdote. Then again I'm not the one making dumb generalizations.

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What he has is something called experience and a medical education. Most obesity is primary (a.k.a. "multifactorial"). You'll learn that in medical school.

That said, he still might be wrong headed. When you see an obese person at an interview, you don't see the 10 lbs they lost in the last six months with all the hard work that went into it.

Anka

Anka said:

What he has is something called experience and a medical education. Most obesity is primary (a.k.a. "multifactorial"). You'll learn that in medical school.

That said, he still might be wrong headed. When you see an obese person at an interview, you don't see the 10 lbs they lost in the last six months with all the hard work that went into it.

Anka

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Then cite it. How difficult is that?

Revenant said:

Then cite it. How difficult is that?

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Probably because we have better things to do with our time than that?

You do realize that traditionally in science, the burden of proof would be upon the person making the claim that is not normally accepted right? Therefore you need to cite evidence that the primary cause in anything but a minority of cases is genetic, endocrine, etc.

The answer is simple. Med schools use the following relationship:

If MCAT>BMI- no discrimination
If BMI>MCAT- lose some weight, fatty.

.

why do ppl keep asking about this? Many of the people on the adcom are overweight as well as many interviewers so I don't see how this would significantly hurt one's chances.

I saw a really really large person at my wcc. His white coat looked like a bed sheet.(it was still short on him) So if you have the scores and some weight you can still go to med school.

PS I would never have remembered this if my parents and grandparents had not talked about it so much afterwards. Its not a big deal to me, but he will have a tough time looking someone in the eye and telling them to lose weight when he is heavy himself. Oh, and as far as I know no one has quite school yet in our class so he is doing fine.

liposuction

08675309 said:

i am 5'5, 245 lbs, and i am a girl. essentially, that means that i am obese. i eat healthfully and do aerobic workouts daily, although this was not always the case. i blame nobody for my weight except for myself. however, I am not one of those "depressed overeaters" or "lazy as*es" that people assume fat people are. i have a supportive boyfriend and family, and am very active in my community and at school. so far i have had 6 interviews this cycle and have 3 acceptances and 1 waitlist (have yet to hear back from the other interviews).

honestly, i don't think your looks matter as much as you think they do. just thought i'd share my story.

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and thank you for doing so! some positivity on this negative thread. also, i could swear we just had a thread about this that kept getting rehashed over and over, OP, why start a new one about the exact same thing??

ladyluck3 said:

and thank you for doing so! some positivity on this negative thread. also, i could swear we just had a thread about this that kept getting rehashed over and over, OP, why start a new one about the exact same thing??

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I am going to go out on a limb here and say that dcgirl2007 is trolling. She (presumably) has been starting annoying threads all over the place: this one, the one about going into medicine for the money -- as if we don't have 32905423058 threads about that already -- and the absolutely unneccesary one about anonymity. I should hope the moderators pay attention to this.

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Tired said:

This is an excellent point, and gives me the chance to clarify my original (admittedly snide) comment.

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And I, in turn in this spirit would like to withdraw my asshat comments from several of my posts

But despite all of this, at the end of the day the medical truth remains: if you eat fewer calories than your expend, you will lose weight. And until the day we start rationing food again, it will be incumbent on the individual to stop eating and run more.

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And you would be correct here for the vast majority of people.

My point is that there is a tiny amount of people who for various reasons cannot lose weight effectively.

TheRealMD said:

The number of med students that work out is insane. Even if you didn't do it before, you feel coaxed into running or working out just because everyone else is too.

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I second this, most med students are a pretty healthy bunch. Are you going to face discrimination if you're big, probably. There are plenty of overweight med students but I have only seen a handful who are truly obese.

If I were an interviewer and I had two candidates with equal applications, one was obese, one wasn't I'd probably take the skinny one. You can call me a jerk but obesity is ultimately a disease of lifestlye choices. Yeah yeah, genetics, endocrine, etc etc etc but as a previous poster suggested it's unlikely that we're seeing an epidemic of Cushing's. If a candidate walked in with a cigarette in their hand it would put me off, obesity is just as bad for you as smoking.

The fact that no diet is proven to work in the long term doesn't mean that obesity cannot be cured but only that the obese do not cure themselves.

If you break a chair in your interviewer's office, you may have a problem.

No, seriously... If you're a little chubby, it's OK. However, if you're obese to the point that it looks pathological, then the adcom may find fault.

F12 said:

If you break a chair in your interviewer's office, you may have a problem.

No, seriously... If you're a little chubby, it's OK. However, if you're obese to the point that it looks pathological, then the adcom may find fault.

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If you develop your own gravitational pull....then you have a problem.