3rd Year Depression

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What's up ya'll,

I'm sure I'm not the only one going through this, but 3rd year seems infinitely more miserable than the first two years of med school. It's frustrating to work so hard, swallow your pride, bust your *** doing hours and hours of scut for your residents only to be rewarded with mediocre subjective evals. Learning the material hasn't been an issue...it's playing this damn game that has me more depressed than anything.

At this point, I'm sick of medical school and have given up all hope of ever getting a decent residency. For all the importance they place on third year grades, I think I'm SOL. In fact, I think I'm borderline suicidal.

Anyone got any advice for dealing with this sh*t? I've got nothing.
-hussla

Yeah, I think a lot of people feel the way you do. I know I did throughout most of 3rd year, and definitely had some periods where I felt pretty low. It is a unique experience to have worked as hard as anyone has who is in medical school, to be told how imperative it is to learn all of this stuff because you will be the one in charge...and then to be treated like a retarded f*&king child by people who are nothing special, they just happened to graduate a year or two prior. And then they grade you.

Focus on the things in your life outside of third year and if you really do feel suicidal or very depressed, seek help. That can be a dark place and I think A LOT of med students and residents have been there.

My school is on an april-april 3rd year schedule...so let me just say the view from 4th year is much nicer, even in the middle of a difficult sub-i. Keep moving along, you will be done soon

Fortunately most miserable residents are pretty oblivious to anything but rank in the hospital so when I was able to answer the always rudely asked question "What year are you?", when i was able to say "fourth year" I got a lot more respect, even better is "fourth year about to graduate" -- I used that one a couple months ago, they look like you are a unicorn in the middle of the wards and sort of look at you and think if it is worth the time to harass you. In reality a resident is just a fifth or sixth year med student on a power trip

Originally Posted by kungfuhussla

At this point, I'm sick of medical school and have given up all hope of ever getting a decent residency. For all the importance they place on third year grades, I think I'm SOL. In fact, I think I'm borderline suicidal.

I hope it never gets that bad for you.

Yeah, third year sucks sometimes. The work is tiring...the power-trips are annoying....and I hate being made to feel like a criminal for forgetting to ask the dosage of ONE of Mrs. Smith's 17 medications (despite getting the doses for the other sixteen, AND being forced to listen to 3 stories about her cats).

But...it doesn't last forever. And MANY other med students have hated the game as much as you have, for the exact same reasons. And they went on to get perfectly good residencies, and are a lot happier now.

Sorry that you sound so burnt out. But, it's almost over - you can make it! Good luck.

I hope it ends soon. This has, without a doubt, been one of the worst years of my life.

But seriously, thanks for your help everyone.

Originally Posted by kungfuhussla

What's up ya'll,

I'm sure I'm not the only one going through this, but 3rd year seems infinitely more miserable than the first two years of med school. It's frustrating to work so hard, swallow your pride, bust your *** doing hours and hours of scut for your residents only to be rewarded with mediocre subjective evals. Learning the material hasn't been an issue...it's playing this damn game that has me more depressed than anything.

I 100% feel this way. Everything you said above was dead on to the way I feel, so you are not the only one. I love carrying more patients than the rest of the team, know more than the other students, and then getting a mediocre eval because of something stupid like being the only guy on an all female team or not becoming the residents' BFF. Third year is the time when your personality and playing the game matters 10x more than how good of a doctor you are going to be/are.

Just a miserable year overall.

Some days I'm down like that, but luckily I've had more good days than bad days in third year. I hate being on a rotation with another student who barely has enough brain power to remember "underwear, THEN pants" and finding out we both got the same grades on our evals. That's the kind of crap that makes me want to reenact a few scenes from "falling down"

I found that when I stopped playing the game, stopped caring about busting my *** doing scut, I got equivalent or in some cases better evals. If you're looking for a pick-me-up, try this:
1) 3rd year is almost over, and 4th year is awesome.
2) Learning the material is far and away more important than what some ******* attending thinks who knows you less well than the Starbucks barista. Ace the boards and you'll be in a better position than everyone who got great evals but mediocre board scores.
3) Although in general most of us like 3rd year better than the previous two, you're definitely not alone in thinking it's teh suck of all suck. One of my classmates' got his year turned around with a low dose SSRI. Don't be too proud to get help. Good luck.

Originally Posted by kungfuhussla

What's up ya'll,

I'm sure I'm not the only one going through this, but 3rd year seems infinitely more miserable than the first two years of med school. It's frustrating to work so hard, swallow your pride, bust your *** doing hours and hours of scut for your residents only to be rewarded with mediocre subjective evals. Learning the material hasn't been an issue...it's playing this damn game that has me more depressed than anything.

At this point, I'm sick of medical school and have given up all hope of ever getting a decent residency. For all the importance they place on third year grades, I think I'm SOL. In fact, I think I'm borderline suicidal.

Anyone got any advice for dealing with this sh*t? I've got nothing.
-hussla

I'm with you as well, third year is the worst by far, it's been depressing as hell.

I definitely know where you're coming from. I enjoyed the first two years much more than third year. I"ve spent the majority of third year thinking about quitting medicine but then I look at my debt and keep pushing myself out the door each day.

The only thing that helps me is the thought that I will eventually find something I like and be able to tailor my practice around that. It also helps that I have finally found a specialty that I might actually enjoy, so that gives me something to look forward to. I also see a therapist every other week, just to vent. She's probably quite tired of hearing about my life as a medical student!

Just hang in there. This whole game that we have to play is just temporary and we'll look back on it some day and laugh at how ridiculous everything was. Just don't turn into one of those residents/attendings that you can't stand!

Originally Posted by kungfuhussla

What's up ya'll,

I'm sure I'm not the only one going through this, but 3rd year seems infinitely more miserable than the first two years of med school. It's frustrating to work so hard, swallow your pride, bust your *** doing hours and hours of scut for your residents only to be rewarded with mediocre subjective evals. Learning the material hasn't been an issue...it's playing this damn game that has me more depressed than anything.

At this point, I'm sick of medical school and have given up all hope of ever getting a decent residency. For all the importance they place on third year grades, I think I'm SOL. In fact, I think I'm borderline suicidal.

Anyone got any advice for dealing with this sh*t? I've got nothing.
-hussla

I think it would be a really really good time to seek out your school's mental health services. It sounds like you have a LOT going on and could use some support. Please please please please CALL THEM TODAY!

I can honestly say that my worst day of third year has been about as bad as my worst day of 1st year (which was, by far, my worst year of medical school) but that I've had very few truly bad days this year. I've enjoyed it a lot, despite the hierarchy and a miserable rotation or two.

I have found third year to be the best year of medical school thus far but know many students who are struggling. For me, first year was the worst year of my life. Third year has envigorated me because this is why I went to medical school to help patients, to diagnose and treat.

I am sorry the OP is having such a hard time and would echo the comments that OP should seek help from mental health particularly if she/he feels suicidal. If mental health is not available at your school, talk to an attending or resident that you trust and they can guide you to resources available in your area.

Many students refer to a "game" with residents and superiors. I would suggest that students are more likely to see this as a game if they did not have substantial life and/or work experience prior to entering medical school.

Every profession has a hierarchy and there are requirements on how to interact with your peers and superiors in order to gain their respect and get ahead. This goes for waitressing, accounting, the legal profession etc.

I hear that the OP believes that he/she is working hard, doing scut and not being appropriately rewarded. However, most medical students are hardworking or we would not be in medical school. It is unusual for med students to be blatantly lazy or not pulling their weight on the team. So while the OP may see herself/himself as hardworking, doing endless scut, she/he may just be an average student in the eyes of the team.

I would recommend asking the team members on a regular basis-- how am I doing? But be SPECIFIC. What should I be doing to be seen as an honors student? Give them a copy of your final student eval at weekly or every other week intervals? Give them an opportunity to feel out the form and it usually enables them to be more specific then just telling you fine and then you getting the pass instead of commendation or honors. You may find your mood elevated if you are getting adequate feedback and can better impact your clinical evals.

Originally Posted by kungfuhussla

What's up ya'll,

I'm sure I'm not the only one going through this, but 3rd year seems infinitely more miserable than the first two years of med school. It's frustrating to work so hard, swallow your pride, bust your *** doing hours and hours of scut for your residents only to be rewarded with mediocre subjective evals. Learning the material hasn't been an issue...it's playing this damn game that has me more depressed than anything.

At this point, I'm sick of medical school and have given up all hope of ever getting a decent residency. For all the importance they place on third year grades, I think I'm SOL. In fact, I think I'm borderline suicidal.

Anyone got any advice for dealing with this sh*t? I've got nothing.
-hussla

If you really did like the first two years a lot, I would humbly suggest looking into the awesome specialty of Pathology! I'm going into path and can tell you that even from my limited exposure to it, the MS1/MS2 stuff is WAAAAY more useful for it than MS3 bull$hit. Besides you get to be all smug when attendings say, "You went to medical school to take care of people, right? So why don't you know random and useless fact x/y/z about your patient?" Well, if you haven't the least bit interest in taking care of people you can kind of mentally roll your eyes and laugh. I used to get upset about stuff that you're talking about too, but it's such a world of difference when you just don't care.

That said, you do have to actually LIKE basic science, not just find it tolerable. But if you don't give a crap about assessments, plans, social work, medications etc. and you actually remember the meaning of such things as serous cystadenocarcinoma, mucous acinus, fibroplasia, hemosiderin-laden macrophages, etc., path just might be for you!

Even if it isn't though, it's not the end of the world if you don't do one of the MS3 specialties. I'm sure there are a lot of other great non-conventional specialties out there. And if you just want out of the medical machine entirely (which is not an unreasonable desire at all!), you can find positions in pharm, research, etc. with a medical degree.

Hell, if you're really truly bitter, go to law school and then specialize in suing MD's for medical malpractice. You'd probably be quite coveted since you do have insider knowledge and experience.

In short, there are a lot of good routes for people who hate the MS3 game. So don't despair! Have a good cry, regroup, and then think about which path is for you! You've made it this far so clearly you are smart, have a good work ethic, etc.

Best of luck! I've struggled a lot with depression too, feel free to PM me

Originally Posted by kungfuhussla

I'm sure I'm not the only one going through this, but 3rd year seems infinitely more miserable than the first two years of med school. It's frustrating to work so hard, swallow your pride, bust your *** doing hours and hours of scut for your residents only to be rewarded with mediocre subjective evals. Learning the material hasn't been an issue...it's playing this damn game that has me more depressed than anything.

I feel your pain!!!

You aren't alone! A lot of us have felt that way this year. I had depression really bad this winter during an away IM rotation and found myself wanting to break down every time the alarm went off. I think my debt and the lack of any viable alternative got me up and through another endless day of scut at a hospital that I hated. I hear 4th year is definitely better and there's enough elective time to get you through the year. After that there are alternatives to medical practice. Best wishes to you Hussla!

Originally Posted by smq123

I hate being made to feel like a criminal for forgetting to ask the dosage of ONE of Mrs. Smith's 17 medications (despite getting the doses for the other sixteen, AND being forced to listen to 3 stories about her cats).

This is soooo true. The constant scolding really gets frustrating. Once you accept that your job is not to learn but to regurgitate data on-demand to the doctor and residents and to get your paperwork done, you might make some peace with it. It's like the military. You get scolded for saying something in the wrong order and you can't get mad or answer back that yesterday the attending told you the opposite and anyway it doesn't f*cking matter. You just shut up and do it. I wish I had figured this all out a lot earlier.

thank you all for your sympathy and comments. it certainly helped. always good to know that others have been through it before.

looking forward to 4th year.

Why aren't there work hour restrictions for students? My surgery rotation is set up so that we always do at least 90 hours in a week and can end up doing 120 hours in a week. And call can be up to 36 hours at a stretch. Of course this doesn't include driving/preparation time.

I don't know how I'm not going to go insane. This is not normal.

I think what sucks most about third year is the fact that the atmosphere of constantly being evaluated and having to read peoples minds all day really limits your personality. I've adopted the "shut up and do your work" attitude and I feel like a battered wife now. Words cannot describe how excited I am to start my year off after 3rd year so can I reestablish an identity outside of medicine.

Originally Posted by blz

I think what sucks most about third year is the fact that the atmosphere of constantly being evaluated and having to read peoples minds all day really limits your personality.

I totally agree. I've become very paranoid from 3rd year.

Originally Posted by vtucci

Many students refer to a "game" with residents and superiors. I would suggest that students are more likely to see this as a game if they did not have substantial life and/or work experience prior to entering medical school.

I don't really agree with this statement. I worked my butt off for 8 years before applying to medical school. My background has certainly helped me along the way, i.e. showing up on time, putting in the hours without complaining. Yes, I agree that a lot of it has to do with the innate hierarchy, but a lot of it is still a game. Sometimes it feels more like being initiated into some secret club. I've been lucky enough to work with excellent residents and attendings, but some days it feels like my only goal is stay one step ahead without getting in the way.

The same "game" existed when I was a waitress and when I was an attorney. Every job has its rules and culture particularly if you are looking for them. This is another one and we can focus on the negative aspects if we choose or we can look at the better aspects.

Personally, I choose to look at what I gain by being in this profession and what I have to offer others.

Originally Posted by SoCuteMD

I think it would be a really really good time to seek out your school's mental health services. It sounds like you have a LOT going on and could use some support. Please please please please CALL THEM TODAY!

Totally agree. Mental health services are a great support structure, even if all you need is a little support.

Hmm, lets see. I got my face slashed open by two drunk guys on my front door step leading to an ambulance, a hospital stay, and a facial laceration all the way through my cheek (missed the facial nerve thank God). This was 3 days before Xmas, and one week before I was my best friend's best man. Then, two weeks after that, I got pneumonia.

Why is this relevant? Because it 1) happened during third year 2) it happened during OB and 3) it was seriously depressing

Originally Posted by Acherona

Once you accept that your job is not to learn but to regurgitate data on-demand to the doctor and residents and to get your paperwork done, you might make some peace with it. It's like the military. You get scolded for saying something in the wrong order and you can't get mad or answer back that yesterday the attending told you the opposite and anyway it doesn't f*cking matter. You just shut up and do it. I wish I had figured this all out a lot earlier.

I *told* you. You just forgot, or thought I was kidding, or something.

Originally Posted by tr

I *told* you. You just forgot, or thought I was kidding, or something.

yea well it's hard to believe you are paying thousands of dollars to be given the honor of reporting how many cc's people shat and pissed

Originally Posted by blz

I think what sucks most about third year is the fact that the atmosphere of constantly being evaluated and having to read peoples minds all day really limits your personality. I've adopted the "shut up and do your work" attitude and I feel like a battered wife now. Words cannot describe how excited I am to start my year off after 3rd year so can I reestablish an identity outside of medicine.

Couldn't have said it better!

Originally Posted by blz

I think what sucks most about third year is the fact that the atmosphere of constantly being evaluated and having to read peoples minds all day really limits your personality. I've adopted the "shut up and do your work" attitude and I feel like a battered wife now. Words cannot describe how excited I am to start my year off after 3rd year so can I reestablish an identity outside of medicine.

I couldn't agree more. All of third year is one gigantic exercise in enduring pain rather than an "educational" experience. I'm currently in surgery and while it could be worse, it isn't exactly a worthwhile experience. I haven't learned anything useful on the floor or in the OR other than how to change bandages and other menial tasks. I feel my job is to simply be a human retractor and air humidifier during the surgeries...and that's on the good days. On the bad days, like last Friday, my job is to be the ritualized whipping boy where everything that goes wrong is apparently my fault. Hell, even the scrub nurses get in on the fun.

I suppose the only advice I can offer is to just suck it up and look forward to something, anything to focus your attention away from the pain to get through it. For me, its Battlestar Galactica on Fridays that keep me going through this nonsense.

Originally Posted by getunconcsious

I'm going into path and can tell you that even from my limited exposure to it, the MS1/MS2 stuff is WAAAAY more useful for it than MS3 bull$hit.

I see where you went with this but disagree. Third year has helped me make sense of a lot of that which I encountered as a post-sophomore fellow in pathology. Clinical knowledge is an integral component of anatomic pathology: just ask my attending gynecologist who sent an endometrial biopsy on a patient subsequently diagnosed as anovulatory. The resident who called to tell him that the specimen was "benign" should have paid more attention on rounds

Needless to say, clinical knowledge is also essential for clinical pathology (transfusion, hematology, chemistry, and microbiology consults may or may not keep you awake on call nights depending on your program... they'll be a part of your job description for sure if you practice in the community).

Besides you get to be all smug when attendings say, "You went to medical school to take care of people, right? So why don't you know random and useless fact x/y/z about your patient?" Well, if you haven't the least bit interest in taking care of people you can kind of mentally roll your eyes and laugh.

I guess there are different definitions of taking care of people. One of the challenges of path is that we rely so heavily on clinical records instead of spending quality time with the patient - they're still our patients but our knowledge of their clinical predicament is dependent on a clinician's ability to document an encounter. That said, I'll like to think that I'm still someone's doctor even if I'm behind the scenes. I agree though, that it feels weird to have spent what feels like several dozen hours learning how to percuss the liver and countless weeks of an "on doctoring" course studying bedside manner. It makes sense to learn this stuff since we're becoming physicians, but sometimes I'm laughing on the inside.

That said, you do have to actually LIKE basic science, not just find it tolerable.

PGY-1 of path, I'd say was more about cutting things up (reminiscent of surgery), looking at lots and lots of histology (reminiscent of well... histo class except nothing is as straight forward), running around like an idiot and responding to a page q 7 minutes (reminiscent of everything else that goes on in the hospital), and having to present at conferences and tumor boards. It's a great field if you like to be "the expert" and would rather be a consultant than a direct care provider. On the transfusion service, you'll also feel like some kind of pharmacist, monitoring some of the most dangerous, difficult to procure, and heavily regulated "medicines" in the entire hospital... and you'll have pharmacist hours on that rotation (Woohoo CP!). Basic science is lower on the list. If you're interested in molecular path or really want to know WHY you're ordering that immunohistochemical stains you order on each particular tumor, then you can explore the basic science... a lot of us are turned-on by this, but you don't have to be a basic scientist or have excelled in your first two years to become a pathologist. This is a misconception that I am in the process of proving wrong Lotsa pathos enjoy basic science and many have their hands in it; however, they're a bit separate. Clinical knowledge is mas importante.



I agree with the general sentiment of this thread. 3rd year is tough!!! Lots students say it's what they've been waiting for, but for some of us, it's just as difficult (emotionally at least) as years numbered 1 and 2. Hang in there. Hopefully, you're almost finished and hopefully find something that you can look forward to!

Originally Posted by blz

I think what sucks most about third year is the fact that the atmosphere of constantly being evaluated and having to read peoples minds all day really limits your personality. I've adopted the "shut up and do your work" attitude and I feel like a battered wife now. Words cannot describe how excited I am to start my year off after 3rd year so can I reestablish an identity outside of medicine.

Fourthed.

I looked at my last two rotations which were separated by all of 4 weeks.

One of them informed me that I was perhaps a little too quiet for my own good which prevented me from nabbing honors. The course director felt it took a while for people to get to know me and that I would benefit from adoping more of an outgoing personality.

4 weeks later (and without having read that last eval), my new evaluation indicated that I had a sparkling rapport with patients and the office staff. If there was a source of concern, it was a lack of knowledge base that prevented me from nabbing honors.

Now, I didn't go from being a quiet nerd to a warm moron in a span of 4 weeks. I'm starting to think my baseline has always been (and will continue to be) a quiet moron. Depressing thoughts indeed.

I'm absolutely loving the one week break between 3rd and 4th year right now and on the one hand, while I dread heading back to the hospital, I cannot wait to turn the page on 3rd year and start afresh.

So I know this is a four year-old topic but I was directed here from this link:

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/06/...depressed.html

I am thankful that I found this thread and that blog.

I definitely feel the OP's pain in thinking that 3rd year is one giant game of trying to satisfy mercurial attendings and residents. Trying to balance learning the material (and then some which I may have forgotten during my first two years) and doing scut work and trying to look good is getting to me. My grades have been mediocre and I too think I'm SOL when it comes to residencies, esp when I'm trying to go for anesthesia. Many of my eval comments have been along the lines of "difficult to establish rapport" or "unemotional" - but the residents I worked with have been saying the opposite things whenever I asked for feedback or whenever I chatted with them in the halls once the rotation was over.

Yeah, it's been one hell of a slog so far throughout the entirety of medical school. I enjoyed my first year up until the point where some classmates of mine accused me of a crime I never committed (without any sort of credible evidence to back them up), which led to me being placed on mandatory counseling for the rest of the year. I had what seemed like secondary depression to me throughout 2nd year as I pondered whether I was really a good person at all (and not the monster my accusers had made me out to be) and I watched my grades jump all over the place. My accusers were never removed from the class, nor was I ever able to confront them, which bothers me from time to time whenever I see them, but it wasn't as bad as when the incident first came up for me.

I limped throughout my crunch month and ended up with a 216 - which is definitely not what I wanted. I watched friends in the class come and go as I found out more about them or they found out about the incident. It's hard losing friends, too - and combine this with the fact that I am the youngest person in my class - I don't have all the skills to cope just yet.

I went into medical school gravitating more towards acute care/ER due to my past training as a basic EMT, and had already knocked off office care settings/chronic care/primary settings because it wasn't stimulating enough for me, and plus reminded me of helicopter parenting - which is what I had to deal with growing up. It is also for this reason I am not having children, so the current pediatric rotation I am on right now is hard for me because it just brings back too many bad memories. Kids are okay - babies not so much - parents even worse. I think I'm turning into George Carlin or something.

I am acquiring more coping skills whenever I can with the help of resumed counseling sessions that my school provides, and I do have some outlets for stress relief, whether it be attempting guitar, salsa dancing (although I cannot interpret the music as well as I want to, which means a lot to me in this current state), going to the firing range for CCW and martial arts training, working out, but I am slowly finding that I am enjoying them less and less because a lot of time is spent playing "the game" and trying to relearn material as well as establish an identity.

I just hope it gets better all the way up to 4th year....

Originally Posted by CharleyVCU1988

So I know this is a four year-old topic but I was directed here from this link:

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/06/...depressed.html

I am thankful that I found this thread and that blog.


I just hope it gets better all the way up to 4th year....

Yeah, i'd really like to know where the OP is now in his career

Originally Posted by CharleyVCU1988

So I know this is a four year-old topic but I was directed here from this link:

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/06/...depressed.html

I am thankful that I found this thread and that blog.

I definitely feel the OP's pain in thinking that 3rd year is one giant game of trying to satisfy mercurial attendings and residents. Trying to balance learning the material (and then some which I may have forgotten during my first two years) and doing scut work and trying to look good is getting to me. My grades have been mediocre and I too think I'm SOL when it comes to residencies, esp when I'm trying to go for anesthesia. Many of my eval comments have been along the lines of "difficult to establish rapport" or "unemotional" - but the residents I worked with have been saying the opposite things whenever I asked for feedback or whenever I chatted with them in the halls once the rotation was over.

Yeah, it's been one hell of a slog so far throughout the entirety of medical school. I enjoyed my first year up until the point where some classmates of mine accused me of a crime I never committed (without any sort of credible evidence to back them up), which led to me being placed on mandatory counseling for the rest of the year. I had what seemed like secondary depression to me throughout 2nd year as I pondered whether I was really a good person at all (and not the monster my accusers had made me out to be) and I watched my grades jump all over the place. My accusers were never removed from the class, nor was I ever able to confront them, which bothers me from time to time whenever I see them, but it wasn't as bad as when the incident first came up for me.

I limped throughout my crunch month and ended up with a 216 - which is definitely not what I wanted. I watched friends in the class come and go as I found out more about them or they found out about the incident. It's hard losing friends, too - and combine this with the fact that I am the youngest person in my class - I don't have all the skills to cope just yet.

I went into medical school gravitating more towards acute care/ER due to my past training as a basic EMT, and had already knocked off office care settings/chronic care/primary settings because it wasn't stimulating enough for me, and plus reminded me of helicopter parenting - which is what I had to deal with growing up. It is also for this reason I am not having children, so the current pediatric rotation I am on right now is hard for me because it just brings back too many bad memories. Kids are okay - babies not so much - parents even worse. I think I'm turning into George Carlin or something.

I am acquiring more coping skills whenever I can with the help of resumed counseling sessions that my school provides, and I do have some outlets for stress relief, whether it be attempting guitar, salsa dancing (although I cannot interpret the music as well as I want to, which means a lot to me in this current state), going to the firing range for CCW and martial arts training, working out, but I am slowly finding that I am enjoying them less and less because a lot of time is spent playing "the game" and trying to relearn material as well as establish an identity.

I just hope it gets better all the way up to 4th year....

Hey Charley,

I'm a third year having a tough time too. It sounds like we are both working hard and applying ourselves and just not getting the results we want. It sounds like we might have the same problems too. Right now I'm working on appearing more confident and being more communicative with everyone in the hospital. I hope it pays off some on my next evaluation, if not then what else is new. It's definitely frustrating to hear that you are doing a good job but not get evaluated that way and I can relate to that. I think there are just so many variables when it comes to grading and even who is grading you. Let's stay positive, keep our heads up, and work on the few things we know can use some improving!

Originally Posted by copes

Hey Charley,

I'm a third year having a tough time too. It sounds like we are both working hard and applying ourselves and just not getting the results we want. It sounds like we might have the same problems too. Right now I'm working on appearing more confident and being more communicative with everyone in the hospital. I hope it pays off some on my next evaluation, if not then what else is new. It's definitely frustrating to hear that you are doing a good job but not get evaluated that way and I can relate to that. I think there are just so many variables when it comes to grading and even who is grading you. Let's stay positive, keep our heads up, and work on the few things we know can use some improving!

3rded.

It's all a game.

I admire your positive attitude. lol. I guess I haven't made my peace with things, yet.

Anyway, I guess the thing to look forward to is the fact that EVENTUALLY we'll be free of such evaluation. And EVENTUALLY we'll be free to care for patients according to our own best judgment.

EVENTUALLY, the only one evaluating us will be the patient. Then it's no longer about pretending confidence or "sounding smart" for someone else's sake. I'm so looking forward to real responsibility... 'cuz despite the current mediocre grades, I think I'm just as good at coming up with the correct dx as anyone else. And patients themselves seem to think well of me & like me just fine. Once, a patient had glowing things to say about me on rounds with the attending... and the attending really didn't care. Even acted a little jealous.

Meanwhile, I've seen classmates get rewarded for pretending to be nice to patients in front of the attending, but as soon as no one's watching, they barely even care. They get rewarded 'cuz they're good at stroking the attending's ego. So the attending is easily fooled & sees what he wants to see.

But how an attending or resident perceives us really has nothing to do with how good we are at taking care of patients! I bet if a study were done, there would be no correlation between the two whatsoever. lol

Hey, I still have some fight left in me

Evaluations are all about politics. Hidden good deeds have very little politic value. Sad but true. Politics don't stop when we become attendings. I don't like it, but hopefully I get better at the game.

The question is - will you be nice when evaluating your medical student? I used to think I would be, but now I'm not so sure.

I would

Unless they are a gunner, then I would not care for their antics, haha

But, thankfully, I think gunners are not as common as what I've read on here.

No matter what anyone says, 3rd year is a huge game. It would make so much more sense for objective evaluations (ie shelf exams) to constitute a large portion of the grade for unfortunately at my school they do not. Instead, we have things like OSCES in which lay people with no medical knowledge contribute a significant portion of your grade. What I've found impresses attendings/residents the most is knowing your patient like the back of your hand (ie, what time they had a fever o/n, how high, what was given and when, what was the result, etc). Have all the details of the pt available--don't necessarily present all of them but have them in your pocket in case you are asked. But yeah, 3rd year blows.

wow...**** like this makes me wonder if i should go back to my cozy stock market job...hummmm

Whew, old thread.

Count me among the disenchanted. I can't wait until fourth year.

had this in the first half of 3rd year. had B's in half of the rotations but once I identified that I'm really interested in a competitive specialty, I just kinda set aside my pride and emotions and really worked my butt off, got A's, and subsequently, boosted my mood. what i'm getting at is, find something to get excited about and be motivated. anyway, i'm back in the doldrums again, like you, i'm having interview fatigue + SAD + sadness over rejections from programs + feeling inferior compared to other applicants.

hope we get over this.

Good work on 3r depression post …unique site and interesting too… keep it up…looking forward for more updates.

I've really enjoyed, overall, my rotations.

But - third year is very lonely. We went from being in a class of 130 to a class of 15-20 (my "rotating group), and of that, I'm often with 1-2 students if not alone. Not to mention how exhausted you are at the end of the day - a lot of times I don't feel like socializing.

Then there's that whole "having to do things you don't want to do" business.

I'm with the 4th year's gonna rock crowd

Dude listen. dont let them change who you are. you need to take what little personal space you have and turn it into your own personal Disneyland. life is full of s%$* like that. dont consume the whole bowl & one time. you are not alone. its what we signed up for. mine is a Psy.D but, I still here the nightmares of the, "bogged down with work & feeling isolated for 5 years" stories... one day it is going to end. try & remeber why you want to practice & not the objects currently in the room with you now. be easy & feel free to holla back.

I thought third year would be awesome. Finally being in the hospital with the patients, getting to influence another person's life but all thats happened is me feeling inferior. No matter how hard I work Im never good enough for the residents. I dont understand how residents can be so mean especially since they went through the same thing not so long ago. I think the worst part is the fact that I'm used to getting grades comparable to how hard I work. Now i feel like it really doesnt matter.

Just today I was thinking, once step1 is over I'll at least be a third year! I guess I can always look forward to 4th year.

Originally Posted by Nottinghamlace

Just today I was thinking, once step1 is over I'll at least be a third year! I guess I can always look forward to 4th year.

The thing about medicine is that you always hope the next step is going to be better than the one you're on, but it never is.

Try to remember how you feel at this point when you are a resident/attending. Remember you can learn something from EVERYONE even if it is just how you DON'T want to act when you "grow up". Unfortunately a lot of medical education is learning how to play the game. Just remember it gets better each step of the way.

Survivor DO

Originally Posted by survivordo

Just remember it gets better each step of the way.

Originally Posted by tco

you always hope the next step is going to be better than the one you're on, but it never is.

Luckily, most people I've talked to tend to agree that residency, while harder and more demanding, is still "better" than med school overall. Except for the cushy parts of fourth year.

Originally Posted by kungfuhussla

What's up ya'll,

I'm sure I'm not the only one going through this, but 3rd year seems infinitely more miserable than the first two years of med school. It's frustrating to work so hard, swallow your pride, bust your *** doing hours and hours of scut for your residents only to be rewarded with mediocre subjective evals. Learning the material hasn't been an issue...it's playing this damn game that has me more depressed than anything.

At this point, I'm sick of medical school and have given up all hope of ever getting a decent residency. For all the importance they place on third year grades, I think I'm SOL. In fact, I think I'm borderline suicidal.

Anyone got any advice for dealing with this sh*t? I've got nothing.
-hussla

I only read the OP first post, but my 2 cents: I read somewhere that over 70% of docs are on antidepressants at one point or another, it's normal for the stress to get to you, but you should definitely seek some help if you're feeling worthless/as if you may want to hurt yourself. There is ZERO shame in it. You need to take care of yourself before you can take care of your patients. Feel better and keep your head up.

Originally Posted by Mygod

I thought third year would be awesome. Finally being in the hospital with the patients, getting to influence another person's life but all thats happened is me feeling inferior. No matter how hard I work Im never good enough for the residents. I dont understand how residents can be so mean especially since they went through the same thing not so long ago. I think the worst part is the fact that I'm used to getting grades comparable to how hard I work. Now i feel like it really doesnt matter.

Yup, third year blows. I actually liked a good chunk of third year, but when I was burnt out and depressed, I HATED it. There is nobody who's gone through third year who hasn't had their low points, and if they say they liked 100% of it, they're lying. Even the most hypomanic person I've ever met (one of my good friends) had a two week stint where he was absolutely miserable on a rotation because of the attending and senior resident on the team.

I was definitely surprised when I met interns/residents who were super judgmental and acted like they were the s***. I'm starting intern year in 3 months, and I'm sure the MS4 on whatever team I'm on is going to definitely know more than I do when I start. And more than that, I won't ever forget what it felt like to be a medical student - confused, nervous, anxious, and scared much of the time.

Hang in there. Hope the OP of this thread from a few years ago is doing well too.

Originally Posted by tco

The thing about medicine is that you always hope the next step is going to be better than the one you're on, but it never is.

I thought third year was the low point. It does get better after that. Even Intern year is better, at least for me.