Pharm D vs Computer Engineer ?

I don't know about computer engineers, other than what I've found in terms of engineer jobs online, but the salaries for PharmD's a significantly better than that- $90,000-120,000.

If you're willing to contribute to the profession overall and make a nice living, then by all means, try pharmacy because it is an excellent choice for a smart cookie.

You say there are a lot of reasons why you are considering changing fields, but all of them you listed are money related...

RealUnreaL said:

I forgot to ask one more question .
do you guys know that, what year do I have to be on for start working in a pharmacy.
I have to make a fiancial plan,so I can support myself ,my family is not rich enough to support me .So I have to ask you that, which year I can start working and start making money while I am in school.
Thanks again.

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**They say the best things iin life are free, but you can give them to the bugs and bees , I need money....that's what I want yeahhh***

You can start working as a pharmacy intern the same day you set foot in your new pharmacy school. Would the pay allows you to support yourself 100%, that' another story. Usually it's a combination of work, financial aid and/or sugar mommy,daddy or parents.

good luck

RealUnreaL said:

Hi dear Pre-Pharm and Pharmacists,
I maybe open this topic again and I did some research in this community forum.First of I like to thank you all of you guys ,because this is a very large and important community you guys created in here. and The students just like me ,could find what they are looking for and they can lead their future on to right directions.
here is the couple topics I already checked the out
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=532707
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=542170
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=422094

But I still like to update you guys advice and I need all of your advise. if you would give me a hand again please.
I am currently Computer Engineer student in a College and for a long time I wanted to become a Computer engineer.
But I don't want to be come a computer engineer anymore.
and I want to consider Pharm D.
There are a lot of reasons ,why I want to change my major. I can tell you couple of these.
I did 3 months research between Computer engineer Vs Pharm D
A computer engineer could start of salary $60K a year
A Pharm D can could $80K a year (Both are right after graduate)
A computer engineer has to work hard to create new technology and go crazy.
A Pharm D could take it easy ,work in a hospital or work in a drug store (CVS) and make $70K a year as a fresh Pharm D .
A computer engineer has to kiss some people boms , if he wants to level up or if he wants to take him self one level up.
A Pharm D , they can only work and they can level up without doing what computer engineers do.
A pharm D's salary will go up more higher than a computer engineer.
A computer engineer could see a $100K some times for 4 to 5 years work.
A pharm D could see $150K in 2-3 years.

So these are my researches , I maybe wrong or maybe right.
from now on , I need you guys advises and knowledge.
Because most of you guys are pharmacist or will be one in couple years.
I have at least 3 more years to go for been a one.if I decide it right now.
and please all of yours advise is very important for me.Because you guys are the real answers for me and your answers will be effect to my decision.
So I would like to give up on computer engineer to Pharm D .
and I like both of the major. It is not like if I become a Pharm D I will hate it, No I am sure I will like it , same thing for computer engineer.
I just like to know you guys thoughts .
Thanks very much to all of you
Thanks very much for your answers.

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You're in luck! My undergrad degree was computer engineering and I worked at Intel for ~7 years. I'll be starting Pharmacy School this summer. Most importantly, you need to realize that computer engineering is not a professional degree. You'll have to work hard to leverage your projects, research, and academics to land a choice job. There's often 2-3 different interview sessions including a rigorous technical interview. I was compensated at about 60k without a graduate degree. Jobs at 80k+ will require a graduate education in CompE, masters minimum, PhD preferable if you intend on working in microarchitecture design or process engineering. The academic commitment is thus, not much different than that necessary to achieve a PharmD, and a bit cheaper to boot since your research can pay the way. The earning potential can be much higher considering your compensation package often includes stock options, discount stock purchases, and cash-based retirement accounts above and beyond your base pay. Some of the options are "protected" meaning their value doesn't drop below a floor level (aka recession-proof). That's the problem with salary statistics...they're only quoting BASE salaries for engineers and computer scientists, no stock, no cash retirement, no options. It's potentially much more, as mine was, above their base pay.

My colleagues and I have identified several downsides with CpE but don't think they're aren't any with pharmacy. As a CpE, you generally live in a cubicle at your computer, you may be on-call (manufacturing and design esp.), foreigners with your education are 1/2 to 1/3 the price of your salary (they don't have to be licensed here like Pharms do), you're job is vulnerable to economic turbulence, and CE is vital to the preservation of your career. Real CE...not what we have for pharmacy. I'm talking about learning new HDL programming languages, manufacturing techniques, and design principles...on your own. Large technology corporations like Intel have excellent internal training programs but there's no agency cracking a whip, it's your job. Of course, there's always management when you get tired of adding value to the company. Unlike the local hospitals which are flush with middle managers with little or no substantial contribution, Intel lays off middle managers in droves before they even consider one technician/engineer layoff.

Compensation is an important factor, but there are also others to consider. I was very successful at Intel, so maybe I'm not the average case. In my experience pharmacy isn't much, if any, of a pay raise if you're an accomplished CpE with an MS or PhD in the right company, I worked with several. If salary is the arbiter of your future career, how about being an MD? Nurse? Dentist? I have a strong interest in chemistry, esp. biochemistry; additionally, the personal reward I get from care-giving on a daily basis, interacting with the public, and the empowerment of knowing I can make a major difference in the quality of their lives is extremely motivating.

I'm curious how your grades are and how close you are to getting a degree in CpE? Have you done an internship or at least applied for one? Have you found a mentor to shadow or work with in CpE and Pharm? It sounds to me like your research is all 3rd hand and cash compensation based, my advice is to get out of the web and into the workplace. If you impress enough people you'll attract a good mentor to help you find out what it's really like. Good luck

you will be very unhappy if you only pursue pharmacy because of the salary.

GabonpharmD said:

**They say the best things iin life are free, but you can give them to the bugs and bees , I need money....that's what I want yeahhh***

You can start working as a pharmacy intern the same day you set foot in your new pharmacy school. Would the pay allows you to support yourself 100%, that' another story. Usually it's a combination of work, financial aid and/or sugar mommy,daddy or parents.

good luck

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The laws vary by state, sometimes you can begin intern work before you start school, so long as you're accepted. You'll need to be licensed as an intern in another state to swing that arrangement in states that require you to be in your P1 year prior to granting an intern license.

bigpharmD said:

you will be very unhappy if you only pursue pharmacy because of the salary.

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Yep! That's very true. You have to know pharmacy to know if you'll like it or not- regardless of the salary.

bigpharmD gets a +1

GabonpharmD said:

**They say the best things iin life are free, but you can give them to the bugs and bees , I need money....that's what I want yeahhh***

You can start working as a pharmacy intern the same day you set foot in your new pharmacy school. Would the pay allows you to support yourself 100%, that' another story. Usually it's a combination of work, financial aid and/or sugar mommy,daddy or parents.

good luck

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depends on your state. In many states you do not receive an intern license until you have completed the first year of classes. Before that you are welcome to work as a technician.

RealUnreaL said:

Yes , most of my reasons are financial.I can honestly say that , earning is my main reason for considering changing field.But also I would say,if I change it to Pharmacy ,I won't be upset.

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You should stop right there. If your main reasons for going into healthcare involve money then you are setting yourself up for a long miserable career.

There are lots of students right now chasing a PharmD soley because of the money. They will find out being locked into a profession they do not like or poorly understood when they started is a miserable way to live. Especially with thousands of dollars in student loan debt.

the whole condescending attitude toward people that are honest about their motives in $ is terrible. This is the real world, people don't always do jobs they like, money is important for your survival. I too come from a poor family and I find it childish when people give a condescending pep talk about going after jobs in health care for the 'wrong reasons'. Health care is solid, unlike in law or engineering you will most likely not have to face the humiliation of being fired in your mid 40s or 50s and have to settle for a lower paying job that you will most likely have to compete over with fresh grads. Financial stability IS more important than whether you love your job. If Doctors/dentists/pharmacists made 30k/yr and didnt get the respect it commands not many would apply.

quartel said:

the whole condescending attitude toward people that are honest about their motives in $ is terrible. This is the real world, people don't always do jobs they like, money is important for your survival. I too come from a poor family and I find it childish when people give a condescending pep talk about going after jobs in health care for the 'wrong reasons'. Health care is solid, unlike in law or engineering you will most likely not have to face the humiliation of being fired in your mid 40s or 50s and have to settle for a lower paying job that you will most likely have to compete over with fresh grads. Financial stability IS more important than whether you love your job. If Doctors/dentists/pharmacists made 30k/yr and didnt get the respect it commands not many would apply.

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I don't feel that people here expressed a condescending attitude towards the poster. At least I didn't find their comments degrading and I doubt that was their intent. I just think they're trying to give their best advice to the man. It's not unusual for people who chase a career primarily for economic gain to be miserable with the results. I'm not saying this will be the case here, I even stated that compensation is an important consideration; but, I don't feel these people were being mean-spirited or condescending.

There's nothing wrong with pursuing an, in-demand, well-paying career to support a family or any honorable personal endeavor. I don't think anyone here contests that. People have different perspectives, that's all.

Cheers,

RealUnreaL said:

Could you please tell me , are we working ,when we got to last year of school.
Because I have a curriculum in my hand right now and it says Adv.Practice experience I,II,III and these classes are keep going like this for 3 term.
So does it mean , ,this is a intern?

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Yes, last year is rotations where you work in various settings for 6 weeks at a time.

Prepharm1214 said:

Yes, last year is rotations where you work in various settings for 6 weeks at a time.

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Just to add, it's unpaid work. In fact you are paying to work through tuition.

solzont said:

You're in luck! My undergrad degree was computer engineering and I worked at Intel for ~7 years. I'll be starting Pharmacy School this summer. )

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Exact same credentials here. Graduated in '99 with computer engineering, worked for Intel ~3 years then to pharmacy school now I am a pharmacist(at least you made it to your sabbatical.... nice). because I went to a private pharmacy school I am in debt ALOT. If I stayed with Intel I would be much better off right now financially. Even though I am now making more base salary pay, you are right the benefits with Intel was far superior than pharmacy. From the time I left Intel I was able to start making money as a pharmacist within 5 years.

If you leave your engineering job making 60-70K base salary and go to a private pharmacy school, I think the break even point would be probably over 20 years. You have to take in account at least 4 years no salary while in pharmacy school and doing pre reqs. You also have to take in account loss salary from a full time job and also the 150000 dollars in debt from pharmacy school.

So if you are switching to pharmacy for the money then you better rethink your decision because it would be a long time before you see an ROI. I however am glad I made the switch. I hated being salary working 60+ hours and getting paid a salary based on 40. I hated sitting in a cubical. I hated being on call to fix software issues at 2am. I hated the red tape and butt kissing, corporate computer jobs are all about who you know and who you kiss up too. I hated all the pointless meetings that you have to attend. I hated that you could be the best programmer or worker but not get the best raise because you didn't make yourself known to random people who didn't know you but had inut into your raise. Think Office Space, that is what a computer job is like, for real.

I like the job I have, and as of right now there is job security, not like in the computer field where they will cut you loose to pay an Indian 1/8 the pay in a second. However things are changing and not sure if the job security is a for sure thing, have to see how things pan out in the next few years. All I can say is I am happier now with my job than I was and that is what counts even though I am in financially worse shape.

Anyways if you have any questions feel free to ask me.

Thanks for your insight Muse, it's nice to see a fellow former Intel person on these boards. Thanks for backing me up on the salary, it's very real. I'd swear people think I'm lying when I start my "Why do you want to be a pharmacist" conversation without any reference to salary. You did touch on a couple things that I didn't include in my post. Specifically, the work hours and politics. Yes, I also worked about 54-60 hours per week, but I really enjoyed my job under good-great management so I was OK with it. You do need to make yourself visible to decision makers outside your department, productive skip level meetings and strong projects with a large multi-group scope that save/make lots of money are very important for long term success. If you're a pharm at a large hospital, you may find the same rules of politics apply as well...it's all the people, not the job per se.

Anytime you add 10's to 100's of people to an organization the juice (see Stephen Covey's book about trust) can start to flow like oil in winter. It takes good relationships among people to get it moving, but it can still be done with real work. Those who don't want to do the work lean hard on personality and ass-kissing to try and get around the work. The problem for most is navigating the politics and having the will/endurance to market yourself and your ideas to strangers repetitively. It's like applying to 50 different graduate schools all with different applications and essay nuances while doing your job. All the while your completing your assigned work, but that won't get you raises or promotions. Doing your job is not enough, you must go above and beyond. In fact, it's your own initiative-based brain children that do it. It goes something like this...work hard, master the elements of a problem/system, get idea, gather data, process data, gather more data, interpret data, bounce interpretation/project off peers and bosses, tweak implementation, repeat 10x. Oh wait, you new boss doesn't feel the project is "value added", your data is flawed, nobody cares, the strategic direction of the company has changed, or (the best) a jealous coworker is erecting barriers to your success (woot!).

Quartel is mostly right about the 40's-50's comment. As you get older, it's imperative you constantly keep up with technology so you can compete with the newest crop of talent or you'll be indirectly forced into management or less desirable position within the company. If you're a good primary engineer, you can still be viable into your 40's and 50's but, most likely will move into some type of project management or strategic role eventually. Many secondary or lower engineers eventually opt for the clock-in clock-out, minimum work does it, I'd like to spend more time with my family route.

Computer engineering and/or software is a tall challenge to say the least. When people see lazy pharmacists (yes, yes...they're not *all* lazy, but breakneck demand has dropped the standard significantly) making $100k+ for little work or getting arrested for drug theft at one pharmacy only to find a new job two days later at Walmart, it's tough to sell a demanding and unpredictable technology career. That being said, there's a lot of folks at Intel and Microsoft on the corporate welfare program too.

One of our favorite "anger management" websites, as employees, was this one.

I'm glad to hear you're happier Muse, that's really what we're all after eh? Our little slice
I'll live out of a van if I have to lol....tomato (ketchup) soup anyone?

RealUnreaL said:

I feel very lucky right now because solzont and museabuse .
I really want to thank you for taking your time and giving me heads up in here
I can see my 4 years later future when I look at you guys, thats all about, someone make mistakes(I don't mean mistake ,just for the right expression) and I don't want to spend time and learn from it,at least I can review your side of story and do or do not the same thing,what I am about to do.
and I clearly made mind up one more time, I really do want to health care field.

Question=
I did a small research in this community and found out couple posts about how important schools are.These posts was posted a year ago and they were saying that whichever school you are applying is important , so do you think there is a bad or good pharmacy school or let me re phases the question, is it important that which school you are applying for or is it important that which school you graduated from for a job options or salary options?

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Hi Guys,

I am another fellow of integrated electronics company. I got my EECS BS in top engineering school and landed a design job at the company ~3yrs ago. Yes, my total compensation now is more than just the base salary. And the same thing here with politics. I hate it. I am considering a career change to pharmacist now. solzont and museabuse, you guy make me feel much better now that i am not alone.

solzont and museabuse,

Can i ask you which pharm schools did you guy go to? And any advice for me to be well prepared for pre-reqs while continue to work full time at my current job to be able to financially support my family?

Thanks
-lys

loveyoursmile said:

Hi Guys,

I am another fellow of integrated electronics company. I got my EECS BS in top engineering school and landed a design job at the company ~3yrs ago. Yes, my total compensation now is more than just the base salary. And the same thing here with politics. I hate it. I am considering a career change to pharmacist now. solzont and museabuse, you guy make me feel much better now that i am not alone.

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Go for it... I also have a BS in CS, worked for about 3 years and now am finishing Rx school (class of 2009). I had the same issues as you guys with corporate America, and am glad that I changed it.

RealUnreaL said:

him m it is very sad that, all of you guys had my dream job which like computer engineers or computer science or electrical engineers , worked in the highly recommended companies like Intel and others. and now i am ending my dream starting a new one with pharmacy.
I don't want to start a arguments in here but, I always thought that an computer or electrical engineers should be more reliable than most of the other majors,I am not saying that ,all the other majors are unreliable ,i just want to say that because of the expression. I am not becoming emotional but it is just sad that...
of course . I will not compare these. but if you look at the way how solzont and museabuse,loveyoursimle, see. .All those political and other butt kissing.

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I am just tired or is this pure jibberish?

I just wanted to add some opposing viewpoints so that these people can make an informed decision. I'm an electrical engineer and I've worked for a few companies. I was able to avoid politics for a long time by changing jobs and finding a manager that I would like to work under. Other times, I've found that if you want to move up the corporate ladder or get the big bonuses sometimes you have to play politics. If by politics you mean kissing your manager's butt, then so be it. In the end, it comes down to the realization that your job (no matter what discipline you are under) is to make your manager/boss "look good" and this can come about in many different ways depending on the industry. If you don't like it, then find another job/boss.

Now, I'm not going to tell people that you should not do pharmacy if you're only doing it for the money. Everybody has their reasons and who's to say one reason is better than the other. I have to say that engineering has treated me well. So, I don't hate the career. I see the positives and negatives of both pharmacy and engineering. I happen to enjoy pharmacy more and am willing to risk all the money I may make (salary, 401K contributions, bonuses, etc) in order to work in a career that I find more enjoyable.

Before anyone does the switch, make sure you know what you're getting yourself into. Volunteer or work in a pharmacy. Different pharmaceutical settings will give you different experiences.

I have a computer engineering degree and have worked as a software engineer for the past 5 years. I've decided to switch to pharmacy because I'm passionate about the field.

I'm an exceptional developer and have completed all sorts of projects (mostly C#.NET and C++). However, I'm turned off by the work and lack the desire and drive to succeed in this field. I read books on health and wellness rather than video games and new coding standards (every year I have to read 1000 page bible on a new language, I'm learning AJAX at the moment).

You've gotta pick something that you are interested in, money aside.

If you don't stay up late and write code in your free time, play video games, or subscribe to MSDN magazine or Popular Mechanics then don't go into Software. Otherwise, you'll be miserable. Also, many of my friends are losing their jobs due to the economy... and I just took a 15% paycut to keep mine. So yeah, the money can be good, but it all depends on the market.

Good luck

RealUnreaL said:

Thanks for your respond and your advise.
It will be a hard road but well,what the hell,let's do it...

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Why not do both...Pharmacy Informatics check it out!

As they say, the grass is greener on the other side.

If you want to make good money as a pharmacist right after graduating from pharmacy school you'll need to work in retail pharmacy. I suggest you get a job as a pharmacy technician and see how you like that. If you can handle it for >~6 months you can probably make it in retail.

I only say this b/c you seem to be too focused on the salary. Working as a tech now will prevent you from facing a harsh awakening if and when you pursue pharmacy school and decide to work in retail.

Dude you are write Pharmacists do make that much a year my uncle he make 160K a year now it took maybe 2-5 years to get that much.