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I was wondering if anyone knows (or has an opinion) about Ameripath's GI fellowship. - Thanks,
Ameripath GI fellowship
- Thread starter moodydoc
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YOu mean Quest right, there is no more Ameripath, they were bought by quest.
I know this probably doesn't help but it sounds like **** City to me and a good way to set yourself up for an unrewarding career with no job security.
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I think a better question is would you be restricted for working Ameripath for the rest of your life? How do private practice groups view Ameripath trained candidates? Can you jump into a private practice gig after the fellowship if you had to (more options other than just working for Ameripath the rest of your life)? What is the job security if you had to work Ameripath the rest of your life (ie. what if things change in the future and they dont need you anymore and boot you...how easy would it be to hook up with a private practice group after years of working for Ameripath?
These are questions Id like the answers to as well.
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You mean Quest.
I know most surg path subfellowships are unregulated and anyone can call anything they want a "fellowship", but even for those that hate academics hate publications and just want to job signing out cases in private practice and make lots of money have to realize that any worthwhile fellowship has to have some academic component to it.
A quest GI fellowship will have no multidisciplinary conferences with gastroenterologists, oncs, rad-oncs, radiologists and GI surgeons. There will be no big name people there getting consults. It will be just signing out cases that are reviewed by some other schmoe.
And I think a quest fellowship would not be the best route to move onto a broad-spectrum private practice job or a GI job in academics. ANd when the Govt eventually makes TC for an 88305 not all that lucrative, Quest will drop your ass like a bad crack habit and they will get out of the business altogether. Unless of course they pass the reduction in reimbursement on into your salary.
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I think Robert Petras runs the fellowship actually (or used to anyway). It is all GI biopsies and there is not a significant liver/pancreas/biliary tract/etc component. It does set you up well to work in a pod-lab type place (i.e. staying with Ameripath/Quest) but it would not set you up to work in academics. I don't know about a general private practice but getting "the fellow from Ameripath" doesn't quite ring the same as getting "the fellow from Duke" or "the fellow from UCSF" or "the fellow from [insert big academic center here]" (etc, etc you get the idea).
I would look elsewhere unless you think a GI biopsy only career at a referral lab is the bast career path for you.
I would look elsewhere unless you think a GI biopsy only career at a referral lab is the bast career path for you.
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Any ideas of how the Ameripath fellowship compares to the other corporate GI fellowships i.e. Caris Diagnostics or GI Pathology Partners. Are these other fellowships similar in that they only set you up to work at there lab or is there chance to move into private practice?
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I would avoid those fellowships like a pig with the flu. If your lifelong dream is to work at Quest, you can obviously do that coming out of a real GI fellowship.
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If you're interested, you should call one of these places to ask. They may have a loose affiliation w/ an academic center where you'd be able to see non-biopsy specimens, or they may allow you to have outside rotations.
While a GI fellowship at an university setting would be ideal, there aren't very many of them, & they tend to be pretty competitive. It's possible that you'd be better suited for someone like Quest, but I'm not sure if a private practice looking for a GI pathologist would turn you away. Most of the GI specimens, in a private practice environment, are likely going to be biopsies anyway. Sometimes, I get the impression that some of these jobs just want you to have a certificate that says you did a GI fellowship.
You should also keep in mind that sometimes it isn't where you train, it's who you train w/. If you're being taught by a reputable GI pathologist at Quest, I don't think you'll have a hard time finding a job.
On a side note, I haven't heard anyone mention any disadvantages of doing a DP fellowship at an Ameripath-affiliated (Dermpath Diagnostics) lab.
----- Antony
While a GI fellowship at an university setting would be ideal, there aren't very many of them, & they tend to be pretty competitive. It's possible that you'd be better suited for someone like Quest, but I'm not sure if a private practice looking for a GI pathologist would turn you away. Most of the GI specimens, in a private practice environment, are likely going to be biopsies anyway. Sometimes, I get the impression that some of these jobs just want you to have a certificate that says you did a GI fellowship.
You should also keep in mind that sometimes it isn't where you train, it's who you train w/. If you're being taught by a reputable GI pathologist at Quest, I don't think you'll have a hard time finding a job.
On a side note, I haven't heard anyone mention any disadvantages of doing a DP fellowship at an Ameripath-affiliated (Dermpath Diagnostics) lab.
----- Antony
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Where is the GI Pathology Partners fellowship located? I want to make sure I have it in the list on the wiki.
BTW, a friend of mine will be doing the Ameripath/Quest fellowship with Petras. From what he says, it sounds like a pretty nice deal, with a salary nearly double what a typical fellowship pays, lots of money for travel, and a good volume of cases. The cons of the program are some of the things already mentioned: biopsy only (no liver/panc), not much research being done (may be a plus if you don't want to do research), possibly less prestigious than an academic center. Another person I know did this fellowship a few years back and is now employed in a private group doing GI path. This person seemed to be happy with the fellowship, for what it is worth.
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A good friend of mine did a GI fellowship with Dr. Petras at Ameripath (now quest) GI institute several years ago. She is now a partner in a private practice situation. It was a very good choice for her because one of the partners in her current group had trained with Dr. Petras. I think she was a very competative candidate because of the training, but she now signs out all general surgical pathology cases, not solely GI specimens.
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Regarding the Caris GI pathology fellowship, it is actually more well-rounded than most people would think.
Caris gets a decent amount of general surgical pathology cases(breast, prostate, bladder, soft tissue, you name it), which the fellow is able to as much or as little as they want to.
6 weeks of the fellowship is spent with a hospital-based private practice group in the Dallas area which has very active pancreatic surgeons and liver transplant service...... all of which the fellow is integrated into.
2 weeks of the fellowship can be spent at the VA hospital in Dallas, spending time in the endoscopy suites
Caris also has a relationship with UT-Southwestern and the fellow spends 1/2 day each week their attending the clinical GI and Liver conferences, as well as any interesting conferences the UTSW pathology dept. puts on.
So at least regarding Caris............the GI fellowship is much more than just signing out mucosal biopsies all day.
Hope the info helps.
Caris gets a decent amount of general surgical pathology cases(breast, prostate, bladder, soft tissue, you name it), which the fellow is able to as much or as little as they want to.
6 weeks of the fellowship is spent with a hospital-based private practice group in the Dallas area which has very active pancreatic surgeons and liver transplant service...... all of which the fellow is integrated into.
2 weeks of the fellowship can be spent at the VA hospital in Dallas, spending time in the endoscopy suites
Caris also has a relationship with UT-Southwestern and the fellow spends 1/2 day each week their attending the clinical GI and Liver conferences, as well as any interesting conferences the UTSW pathology dept. puts on.
So at least regarding Caris............the GI fellowship is much more than just signing out mucosal biopsies all day.
Hope the info helps.
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Great info! Thanks. Do you mind if I post this on the Pathology Wiki? I will cite this thread as a reference of course. The info would be posted here:
http://pathinfo.wikia.com/wiki/Caris_Diagnostics_Program_(Dallas)
Do you learn how to be unethical at the Caris fellowship? Or do the pathologists divorce themselves from the sleazy Caris admins and sales reps and pretend none of that goes on behind their backs? I'm guessing the latter.
They offer kickbacks (free stuff) to medical groups to get their business. In business parlance, they "work with the group to identify cost-saving methods and opportunities to increase income." However, some of this is just venting because I don't like what they do and it benefits their shareholders and the groups they serve almost solely at the expense of pathologists (both their own and the ones whose business they steal). Other big labs are similar but Caris' tentacles are somewhat larger. However, I must admit I am not completely informed about this and they have not really impacted our group terribly.
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Isnt this illegal? I've heard of it...so why can't they be prosecuted for this?
Here's a post from Oppenheimer's (OURlab fame) blog years back:
EMR donations: Who is paying the money, where is it from?
Commercial labs, including my own, are now offering six-figure "donations" of EMR (Electronic Medical Record) software, maintenance, and training to clinicians. While this is not illegal, it does bring to bear the possiblity of conflict of interest.
Just where is the money coming from ??? From patients and insurance companies of course. And unneccessary medical testing (triple immunohistochemical stains, working up multiple prostate cores when only working up the most severe is required, routine UroVysion FISH analysis on non-smokers with microhematuria) provides the excess revenue which can be skimmed off the bottom line to support these donations.
Clinicians should know that accepting EMR docations could incentivze laboratories to run unnecessary tests ultimately paid for by their patients co-pay and deductibles. Labs that do not have to make a profit for external investors have less of an incentive to overutilize lab resources.
These guys are ripping patients and insurance companies off.
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My group has to deal with this garbage all the time against competing labs. All as a direct result of too many pathologists who will settle for this kind of crooked outfit for employment.
It's a direct result of unethical clinicians, not primarily the pathologists. Caris pays their pathologists quite well, often better than private practices. And the pathologists don't directly do all the shady stuff unless it's a lab that orders too many immunos. So yes while pathologist oversupply is an issue, it is far from the most important issue. It's also a direct result of shoddy oversight by insurance companies, regulating agencies, the supposedly socialist government, and even patients. Doesn't the OUR lab participate in this stuff to some extent?
Sheesh, I would think you guys would be a little brighter than this to just keep blaming pathologist oversupply for everything. But I guess the simplistic argument is always the easiest one.
Examiner: What was the cause of the Civil War?
Apu: Actually, there were numerous causes. Aside from the obvious
schism between the abolitionists and the anti-abolitionists,
there were economic factors, both domestic and ...
Examiner: Wait - just say slavery.
Apu: Slavery it is, sir.
Sheesh, I would think you guys would be a little brighter than this to just keep blaming pathologist oversupply for everything. But I guess the simplistic argument is always the easiest one.
Examiner: What was the cause of the Civil War?
Apu: Actually, there were numerous causes. Aside from the obvious
schism between the abolitionists and the anti-abolitionists,
there were economic factors, both domestic and ...
Examiner: Wait - just say slavery.
Apu: Slavery it is, sir.
