Drop Medicine because of Verbal Reasoning?

I am in your shoes my friend. First time I got a 21 with a 6 in VR, second time I got a 26Q (9/6/11) so we are like VR twins lol. My third attempt is coming up on June 21st. I have been doing slightly better in VR lately and I can only think of one reason why. Since Jan I have read about four books cover to cover. Doesn't sound like alot or anything special. But just sitting down and focusing on reading something/anything was a big help. I realize my problem is with the time pressure and I just read faster without taking the time to focus on actually reading. Not sure if just trying to read a good book while studying and pushing the test back a little bit would help you or not. It has seemed to help me though. Only thing I can say helps with comprehension is more reading. Not necessarily passages but reading in general. It does take a long time though so not sure your best route since I am still trying to figure it out.

If this is what you want DO NOT GIVE UP! I have bombed the VR twice now and I refuse to fail because of it. I will figure it out eventually even if it takes me until I am thirty. I'll get it. You should find this mentality. Good luck

CaribbeanBlue said:

I am in a big dilemma.

I will be taking the MCAT for the third time on 4/28. I voided the test in september and took my exam in Jan for a score of 10/6/11.

My problem is obviously the verbal reasoning. I have tried every strategy out there from princeton review to EK and more of even my own that I thought may work, but what it really comes down to is the fact that sometimes i don't even understand what the **** the passage is really saying. That and sometimes I'm never really sure what the answer is when I break it down to 50/50 because one answer's logic seems just as convincing as another and then I totally disagree with the answer reasonings on EK.

I have been scoring nothing higher than a 7 on verbal for my third preparation for the MCAT on EK 101 passages.
I am not ESL, but I realize that my issue is that I just never really read books and was so used to just skimming my whole life.

Should I honestly just give up after this last attempt and stop trying while it isn't too late? It is just so sad that the only thing stopping me from medical school is verbal since I haven't shown ANY signs of improvement in almost a year. Again, I tried all the strategies but all the strategies still require you to understand the passage, which I have trouble doing for some passages and I end up missing around 5 questions from that particular passage.

Should I just cancel my test date and hope to apply again June of 2013 or not even bother?

Thanks.

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That is probably the root of your problem right there. Don't disagree with the correct answer. Be open minded as to why that is the correct answer, and try to understand why the author believes that's the correct answer.

My recommendation is to postpone taking the MCAT for a bit so you can prepare for Verbal. Verbal is frustrating, but it does test an important skill: critical thinking. Take a political science, sociology, or any other course that will have you reading a lot of essays that make a point. Read as much as you can. As you read, however, don't read for the details. Only read for the ideas. Verbal is an idea test, not a detail one.

A lot of docs I know have been in your position. Don't give up now. Put the time and energy in to improving the skills that Verbal tests. You'll be a better doc because of it.

DocAbroad said:

My recommendation is to postpone taking the MCAT for a bit so you can prepare for Verbal. Verbal is frustrating, but it does test an important skill: critical thinking. Take a political science, sociology, or any other course that will have you reading a lot of essays that make a point. Read as much as you can. As you read, however, don't read for the details. Only read for the ideas. Verbal is an idea test, not a detail one.

A lot of docs I know have been in your position. Don't give up now. Put the time and energy in to improving the skills that Verbal tests. You'll be a better doc because of it.

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This, and for that it helps to develop a wide knowledge base. Get comfortable reading text that might be boring to you. If you learn to love to read everything, it'll make it easier. And if you're not criticizing any of EK's answers, you're doing if wrong. If you're criticizing most of them, you're doing it wrong.

First of all, don't drop medicine just because your verbal reasoning is weak.
Second of all, this strategy along with the previously mentioned strategies may help:

Prove every answer wrong until you're left with one answer choice, regardless of whether it looks good or bad.

What does this mean? Say you have a question:

1. Which one of the following arguments was blah blah blah...

A. ...
B. ...
C. ...
D. ...

Essentially, the idea is to look at each answer individually, find evidence from the passage that either supports it or not, and go on to the next answer.

I think many people do poorly on verbal reasoning (like myself in the beginning) because they look for the answer that looks RIGHT instead of looking for the answer that is CORRECT. What I'm saying is that you will have 4 answer choices that look very bad and so you have eliminate 2 or 3 just to pick the one that's left, even if it looks bad. Verbal reasoning is all about interpretation and sometimes, your interpretation of the passage is not the same as the author's.

You will be slow in the beginning using this strategy but I believe this will help. Why? Because this was my high school AP Lit teacher's strategy. And he took me from a 1 on the exam to a 5. Even though the two exams are different, verbal reasoning is verbal reasoning.

I feel for you. Not grasping the passage must be extremely frustrating and there's really no way around not having that skill. Have you tried slowing down and working towards getting faster but still understanding the passage? If you try riding a bike with no training wheels the only thing you will gain is scraped knees.

Have you tried practicing not reading the passage and just analyzing the answer choices point blank? This could train you to gain knowledge from the questions themselves and make you focus on eliminating trap answers.

One thing that helped me was not trying to pick the correct answer. When you do this you are looking for something to sound correct and MCAT writers don't play the game fairly. I pick out the wrong answers. When you are down to two don't think "which on of these is right", you'll be more successful thinking "which one of these can I more likely cross out". Think about it, they essentially give you the answer... you just have to identify the wrong ones.

I wish you the best of luck. If you stick with it, you will achieve your goals. I hope Verbal doesn't stop someone from making the difference they want. That's just silly.

Shalashaska said:

First of all, don't drop medicine just because your verbal reasoning is weak.
Second of all, this strategy along with the previously mentioned strategies may help:

Prove every answer wrong until you're left with one answer choice, regardless of whether it looks good or bad.

What does this mean? Say you have a question:

1. Which one of the following arguments was blah blah blah...

A. ...
B. ...
C. ...
D. ...

Essentially, the idea is to look at each answer individually, find evidence from the passage that either supports it or not, and go on to the next answer.

I think many people do poorly on verbal reasoning (like myself in the beginning) because they look for the answer that looks RIGHT instead of looking for the answer that is CORRECT. What I'm saying is that you will have 4 answer choices that look very bad and so you have eliminate 2 or 3 just to pick the one that's left, even if it looks bad. Verbal reasoning is all about interpretation and sometimes, your interpretation of the passage is not the same as the author's.

You will be slow in the beginning using this strategy but I believe this will help. Why? Because this was my high school AP Lit teacher's strategy. And he took me from a 1 on the exam to a 5. Even though the two exams are different, verbal reasoning is verbal reasoning.

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Listen to this advice. I scored a 15/14/13 and I used this strategy. I also tutor students in verbal reasoning using this strategy.

Jack

Prove every answer wrong until you're left with one answer choice, regardless of whether it looks good or bad.

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This is the best advice you are going to get. Do some more practice passages, untimed, using this strategy and see if it helps. I am one of those people verbal was "made for." One of my majors is philosophy, so I've been reading and interpreting difficult texts every semester since freshmen year. But I was still only getting 10's or 11's. This strategy boosted me to consistently getting in the 12-13 range on VR.

VISUALIZE what you're reading. No joke this helps a lot. If you force yourself to become interested in a passage it becomes easier to understand. If you let your mind wander then you arent reading, you are just "looking over"

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This is also a huge factor. Your brain takes its cues from you. If you allow yourself to become interested in the text, your brain will figure, "Hey, this must be important," and will remember and understand the passage better. It may seem weird, but enjoying the text IS equivalent to focusing on the text. If you read without enjoying the passage, focusing only on, "OMG, I gotta understand this so that I can do well, focus, focus," then your brain will not pay any attention to the text, only on the imminent doom you are pre-occupied with. Try to enjoy the passages in and of themselves, and try to learn from them. Treat them as ends in themselves rather than the means to answering questions. I've laughed out loud while reading some passages, and become absolutely intrigued by others. And you can only respond that way to a passage if you understand it. It may take slightly longer to read a passage you enjoy, but when I take that time, it takes me only 30 seconds to answer questions and I very rarely have to go back to the text, because I remember almost everything.

JustMeditate said:

This is the best advice you are going to get. Do some more practice passages, untimed, using this strategy and see if it helps. I am one of those people verbal was "made for." One of my majors is philosophy, so I've been reading and interpreting difficult texts every semester since freshmen year. But I was still only getting 10's or 11's. This strategy boosted me to consistently getting in the 12-13 range on VR.



This is also a huge factor. Your brain takes its cues from you. If you allow yourself to become interested in the text, your brain will figure, "Hey, this must be important," and will remember and understand the passage better. It may seem weird, but enjoying the text IS equivalent to focusing on the text. If you read without enjoying the passage, focusing only on, "OMG, I gotta understand this so that I can do well, focus, focus," then your brain will not pay any attention to the text, only on the imminent doom you are pre-occupied with. Try to enjoy the passages in and of themselves, and try to learn from them. Treat them as ends in themselves rather than the means to answering questions. I've laughed out loud while reading some passages, and become absolutely intrigued by others. And you can only respond that way to a passage if you understand it. It may take slightly longer to read a passage you enjoy, but when I take that time, it takes me only 30 seconds to answer questions and I very rarely have to go back to the text, because I remember almost everything.

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Every time I get a passage that I "enjoy" reading and understand, I get the most questions wrong in that passage. The passages where I'm like..."wtf did I just read?" are the ones that I get none to 1 wrong. I think there's something wrong with me...

CaribbeanBlue said:

I am in a big dilemma.

I will be taking the MCAT for the third time on 4/28. I voided the test in september and took my exam in Jan for a score of 10/6/11.

My problem is obviously the verbal reasoning. I have tried every strategy out there from princeton review to EK and more of even my own that I thought may work, but what it really comes down to is the fact that sometimes i don't even understand what the **** the passage is really saying. That and sometimes I'm never really sure what the answer is when I break it down to 50/50 because one answer's logic seems just as convincing as another and then I totally disagree with the answer reasonings on EK.

I have been scoring nothing higher than a 7 on verbal for my third preparation for the MCAT on EK 101 passages.
I am not ESL, but I realize that my issue is that I just never really read books and was so used to just skimming my whole life.

Should I honestly just give up after this last attempt and stop trying while it isn't too late? It is just so sad that the only thing stopping me from medical school is verbal since I haven't shown ANY signs of improvement in almost a year. Again, I tried all the strategies but all the strategies still require you to understand the passage, which I have trouble doing for some passages and I end up missing around 5 questions from that particular passage.

Should I just cancel my test date and hope to apply again June of 2013 or not even bother?

Thanks.

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Apply to DO...DONT GIVE UP ON YOUR DREAM

Temperature101 said:

Apply to DO...DONT GIVE UP ON YOUR DREAM

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I may be incorrect on this but won't a 6 screen him out of DO schools too

Follow the advices mentioned above they really do work.

To be honest, reading books (or not reading books) has nothing to do with it. My whole life I skimmed assigned readings and summer reading books. I've always been a good writer, but I never wanted to read. In fact, the first book I ever read completely through was Complications my sophomore year of college; Yes, you read that right.

That said, I was averaging 11-12 on the AAMC FLs and about the same on the EK VR 101s and TPRH VW tests. I took the MCAT on April 5, and it was a retake. My first one was 2-3 years ago and I got a 10 on VR without doing any prep.

To me, the most important part of VR is pattern recognition. The wrong answers are always some form of the same traps. Those traps being things like:

1. Common opinion about the topic, but NOT what is stated in the passage. For example, the passage talks about how racism is good, and one of the answers describes how racism is bad. You'll want to pick the one that says racism is bad, but it will be wrong based on the passage.

2. An answer that makes sense, but is too extreme. Words like always and never should be a red flag. Tentatively cross them out unless you know all the other answers are wrong; this won't happen often, if ever. I remember one question (during prep) that the correct answer invovled an always/never situation.

3. An answer that is too broad. The answer tries to apply the reasoning and beliefs within the passage to an entirely unrelated topic or sounds too much like your girlfriend hinting that she wants you to tell her she isn't fat, but won't come out and just ask you if you think she's fat.

4. An answer that is only partly true, and therefore completely wrong. These are pretty common, and the true portion of the answer will probably be the first part of the answer to get people who aren't reading the entire answer. For example, the passage says that roses are usually red, sometimes white, but never another color. Then one of the answer choices is "Roses are usually red, sometimes white, and the rarest color is pink." Partially right = completely wrong.

You don't have to know details from the passage. You do need to know the main idea and get a feel for the author's opinion. If you can get into the author's head, you can usually immediately throw out 2/4 answer choices. Think like the author, not like yourself. That's the key to VR.

Whiteshoes said:

I may be incorrect on this but won't a 6 screen him out of DO schools too

Follow the advices mentioned above they really do work.

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I agree that a 6 would be automatically screened out especially if not ESL.

typicalindian said:

Every time I get a passage that I "enjoy" reading and understand, I get the most questions wrong in that passage. The passages where I'm like..."wtf did I just read?" are the ones that I get none to 1 wrong. I think there's something wrong with me...

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OMG, right?! Me too!

...

There is some awesome advice on this thread!

psychkub said:

OMG, right?! Me too!

...

There is some awesome advice on this thread!

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There is, I'm gonna try some of it out when I do some verbal later.

CaribbeanBlue said:

I want to say thanks to all the great replies. The problem still is just me understanding some of the passages. I will usually end up forgetting certain details and even forget where they are located in the passage. I have tried doing the "read halfway then look at questions" but then the questions usually pertain to things later in the passage.

I usually always come out to missing 14-18 out of the 40 due to one or two bad passages where I miss like 5 due to my lack of understanding reading...


If I can pull an 8 on this verbal on the 28th, should I apply in June??

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Try a different technique. Maybe you need to write notes or make annotations.

If your get a 25-27 + you should be able to get into a DO school. Don't give up medical school without ever applying. A lot of international students have problems with VR.. it's not the most important part of the MCAT. Keep grinding away and do ALL AMCA practice tests. Good luck!

xroc said:

That is probably the root of your problem right there. Don't disagree with the correct answer. Be open minded as to why that is the correct answer, and try to understand why the author believes that's the correct answer.

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Agree 100% . . . Do not argue with the explanation. Accept it, learn from it, and move on. Disagreeing with the explanation means that you are MISSING SOME CRITICAL POINT 99% of the time. Take that shoddy explanation, readjust your perspective to see the truth in it. . . ie, learn and adjust. Resisting is part of what might be keeping you down. . . . In sport the team that is whining about the bad calls just gets frustrated.

Shalashaska said:

First of all, don't drop medicine just because your verbal reasoning is weak.
Second of all, this strategy along with the previously mentioned strategies may help:

Prove every answer wrong until you're left with one answer choice, regardless of whether it looks good or bad.

What does this mean? Say you have a question:

1. Which one of the following arguments was blah blah blah...

A. ...
B. ...
C. ...
D. ...

Essentially, the idea is to look at each answer individually, find evidence from the passage that either supports it or not, and go on to the next answer.

I think many people do poorly on verbal reasoning (like myself in the beginning) because they look for the answer that looks RIGHT instead of looking for the answer that is CORRECT. What I'm saying is that you will have 4 answer choices that look very bad and so you have eliminate 2 or 3 just to pick the one that's left, even if it looks bad. Verbal reasoning is all about interpretation and sometimes, your interpretation of the passage is not the same as the author's.

You will be slow in the beginning using this strategy but I believe this will help. Why? Because this was my high school AP Lit teacher's strategy. And he took me from a 1 on the exam to a 5. Even though the two exams are different, verbal reasoning is verbal reasoning.

Click to expand...

POE was critical for me. Always look for the LEAST BAD answer. . . because in most cases they are all pretty f----d up answers. Stop being mad at the verbal section and prepare for the trickery that it serves.

typicalindian said:

Every time I get a passage that I "enjoy" reading and understand, I get the most questions wrong in that passage. The passages where I'm like..."wtf did I just read?" are the ones that I get none to 1 wrong. I think there's something wrong with me...

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Agree again. Enjoyment can be distracting (discussion on the biological implications of shrimp vomit) and in often cases impossible (benefits of complementing theory and logic in scientific progress). It is impossible to keep track of all the details in these passages but with practice you start to anticipate better, like a veloce-raptor (sp??)

Temperature101 said:

Apply to DO...DONT GIVE UP ON YOUR DREAM

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Ignore. Go for DO if you like DO methods. Go for MD if you like MD methods. DO schools try hard to eliminate non-sincere applicants. It is important to remain sincere.


In Conclusion:
With practice, the WTF passages start to become "familiar" in their ridiculousness so you get better at sensing tone, main idea and examples while moderating your over-imaginative inferences. POE is a powerful skill that requires UNDERSTANDING and ACCEPTING the answer explanations. See my other posts on Verbal reasoning and my 15 Lessons thread. I went from a 7-12 in the verbal section in a year with the major gain in the last 7 weeks before the test, so it is possible.

supportivehubby said:

Ignore. Go for DO if you like DO methods. Go for MD if you like MD methods. DO schools try hard to eliminate non-sincere applicants. It is important to remain sincere.

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DO schools do want people who are sincere about DO, but they also want people who are sincere about becoming a doctor. The latter is more important.

Obviously you can't say "I'm applying to your DO school because I know I can't get into MD schools," but you have to be realistic. If you really want to be a doctor, no matter how much you hate DO methods, or think they are worthless, if you can't get into MD, DO is your only chance.

CaribbeanBlue said:

If I can pull an 8 on this verbal on the 28th, should I apply in June??

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YES.

For ****s sake, are there enough negative people here? The MCAT is just one section, albeit a big one, of your application. Let me restate that: ONE. And the verbal section? Again, one. There are hundreds of factors that go into whether or not you will get a secondary request/interview/acceptance. If you're strong in most other aspects, there's no reason you won't get in because of a sub par verbal score. Every application has weaknesses.

Three things: first, you can prove to the committee that you can read and write analytically in your personal statement and secondaries.

Second, apply judiciously; some schools screen out MCAT scores below 8 in any field, some screen out below a total score (i.e. under 25). The University of Washington, my in-state school, automatically sends secondaries and considers for interview if you have over a 20 MCAT, 2.75 GPA, and are an in-state applicant. Look to see what the individual school policy is.

Third, my dear friend just got in last cycle with a 28M--12P/12B/4V. Where? Georgetown. ****ing Georgetown with a 28M, as well as in-state, and one other private MD school. Not DO. Her application was strong overall, even though it was weak in verbal and writing.

Focus on the strategies people have mentioned here, then step back and breathe. You're probably psyching yourself out to some degree the more you stress. Slow down, read the passage carefully, outline passages, go to your university Writing Center for tutoring, whatever it takes to get more comfortable. Then focus on the rest of your application and remember that it's just one part. If you've put in the effort elsewhere and this is really what you want to do, there's no reason you can't make it.

xGeorgettex said:

YES.

For ****s sake, are there enough negative people here? The MCAT is just one section, albeit a big one, of your application. Let me restate that: ONE. And the verbal section? Again, one. There are hundreds of factors that go into whether or not you will get a secondary request/interview/acceptance. If you're strong in most other aspects, there's no reason you won't get in because of a sub par verbal score. Every application has weaknesses.

Three things: first, you can prove to the committee that you can read and write analytically in your personal statement and secondaries.

Second, apply judiciously; some schools screen out MCAT scores below 8 in any field, some screen out below a total score (i.e. under 25). The University of Washington, my in-state school, automatically sends secondaries and considers for interview if you have over a 20 MCAT, 2.75 GPA, and are an in-state applicant. Look to see what the individual school policy is.

Third, my dear friend just got in last cycle with a 28M--12P/12B/4V. Where? Georgetown. ****ing Georgetown with a 28M, as well as in-state, and one other private MD school. Not DO. Her application was strong overall, even though it was weak in verbal and writing.

Focus on the strategies people have mentioned here, then step back and breathe. You're probably psyching yourself out to some degree the more you stress. Slow down, read the passage carefully, outline passages, go to your university Writing Center for tutoring, whatever it takes to get more comfortable. Then focus on the rest of your application and remember that it's just one part. If you've put in the effort elsewhere and this is really what you want to do, there's no reason you can't make it.

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The problem is that some schools won't even read your PS if your MCAT is too low. 12/4/12 is probably a very special circumstance. Getting into MD with a balanced 28 is hard enough; near impossible with a 4 on any section unless you know someone.

I don't know who suggested it but for the AAMC I just took I tried to picture the story the passages were telling in my head and that really helped me understand what was going on. Maybe try doing that?

typicalindian said:

I don't know who suggested it but for the AAMC I just took I tried to picture the story the passages were telling in my head and that really helped me understand what was going on. Maybe try doing that?

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This works for a lot of passages. Something that helped me a lot was realizing (I think I got this from wikipremed) that the passages are not written by the AAMC. They are pulled from real articles with real authors who were trying to persuade or inform people. They didn't write it with the purpose of confusing pre-meds. With that in mind, I started to read the passages as if it was written just for me to read. It helped a lot (hopefully).

MedPR said:

The problem is that some schools won't even read your PS if your MCAT is too low. 12/4/12 is probably a very special circumstance. Getting into MD with a balanced 28 is hard enough; near impossible with a 4 on any section unless you know someone.

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Right, some schools. That's why I'm recommending that the OP be judicious in selecting schools to apply to. Some schools won't consider students without a balanced score, while some just require above a certain composite score. My friend didn't know anyone special. She just took her score for what it was and focused on the rest of her application and she picked schools that wouldn't automatically screen her out. Granted, she also had about a 3.8 cum and 3.6 science GPA, so it goes back to the 'overall strong application' argument.

The bottom line is that the MCAT is one portion of the application process. If you've got an overall strong application, one hole won't destroy your chances. If you've got swiss cheese, on the other hand, well... God speed.

xGeorgettex said:

Right, some schools. That's why I'm recommending that the OP be judicious in selecting schools to apply to. Some schools won't consider students without a balanced score, while some just require above a certain composite score. My friend didn't know anyone special. She just took her score for what it was and focused on the rest of her application and she picked schools that wouldn't automatically screen her out. Granted, she also had about a 3.8 cum and 3.6 science GPA, so it goes back to the 'overall strong application' argument.

The bottom line is that the MCAT is one portion of the application process. If you've got an overall strong application, one hole won't destroy your chances. If you've got swiss cheese, on the other hand, well... God speed.

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How did she know which schools wouldn't automatically screen her out? I could use a similar list for GPA requirements

Georgette is correct to refocus this discussion towards encouraging our fellow SDNer. GO CB!!

Carribbean Blue: You can make this happen, with or without a perfect score in verbal. You should only stop pursuit of this goal if you decide another professional route is more appealing to you. Success, however, is not just dependent on dreams, it is also dependent on your success and confidence as an applicant. . . . Every school has random filter methods, some are MCAT total, MCAT subscore, GPA, community service hours, etc. That is why it is challenging and important to select schools that speak to your interests professionally and that you MATCH with as an applicant vs only ones that have a famous name or high ranking. . . . famous name and ranking should only be bonuses, if you even care about them. Personally, I like bonuses like gym-access, lack of snow and a cheap cost-of-living.

Good luck!!! You will surely be sucking up some of these awesome tips. There are so many because there are so many learning styles and so many skills to hone for the verbal section. Speed, big-picture comprehension and answer selection are the three major hurdles in this section, I believe. . . target your weakness and don't forget to stick to your changes!!! It is very common to jump on a new approach and then fall back into old habits after a few hours/days. You need to re-condition yourself over many passages and you need to remind yourself of the things you are doing and the things you need to avoid doing.

MedPR said:

If you really want to be a doctor, no matter how much you hate DO methods, or think they are worthless, if you can't get into MD, DO is your only chance.

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Sorry, I know this is about supporting Caribbean Blue but I have to respond to the above statement to keep CB and other pre-meds facing the MCAT-Beast and the convoluted trails of the Verbal Section from losing faith in themselves:
I do not agree with this advice and think it represents a serious, ethical flaw in judgment. If you hate DO methods and believe that the DO degree represents worthless methodologies then you should not pursue DO. Inter-professional relationships are the future of medicine requiring respect and understanding of all medical professionals, MD, DO, NP, PA, RN and on and on. Additionally I would disregard the superfluous end-of-world phrase "your only chance" that keeps the cortisol levels high in pre-meds. . . You have many chances and many aspects of your application.

Also, the more advice you can get from Attendings, Residents, Med Students the better since they are successful applicants.

supportivehubby said:

Sorry, I know this is about supporting Caribbean Blue but I have to respond to the above statement to keep CB and other pre-meds facing the MCAT-Beast and the convoluted trails of the Verbal Section from losing faith in themselves:
I do not agree with this advice and think it represents a serious, ethical flaw in judgment. If you hate DO methods and believe that the DO degree represents worthless methodologies then you should not pursue DO. Inter-professional relationships are the future of medicine requiring respect and understanding of all medical professionals, MD, DO, NP, PA, RN and on and on. Additionally I would disregard the superfluous end-of-world phrase "your only chance" that keeps the cortisol levels high in pre-meds. . . You have many chances and many aspects of your application.

Also, the more advice you can get from Attendings, Residents, Med Students the better since they are successful applicants.

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Ok, so if you disagree that DO is the only option for people who can't get into MD, but still want to be doctors, what would you suggest someone with a 3.0 undergrad GPA, a 3.2 SMP, and a 28 MCAT (after 3 retakes) do? This isn't my application profile, but I think it's a good example of someone who has a chance at DO and no chance at MD.

Also, advice from attendings may or may not be useful as they were applicants probably over a decade ago. The application process and competitiveness was way different a decade ago. The same is true for some residents.

CaribbeanBlue said:

So sad story, after reading all of the encouraging posts, I decided to try and stick with my test date on the 28th and took EK Practice Test 12... and got a 6...

Looks like I just need to hone in reading skills, honestly. Would it be a bad idea to just take time to read newspapers/articles/journals for several months to a year, take the MCAT then and THEN apply to medical school??

I believe I would then be dropping the exam on April 28th... in which the deadline is the 14th am I correct?

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Reading non-MCAT material may help, it may not, but it certainly won't hurt. Have you tried any of the AAMCs? EK was much harder for me than the AAMCs were.

MedPR said:

Ok, so if you disagree that DO is the only option for people who can't get into MD, but still want to be doctors, what would you suggest someone with a 3.0 undergrad GPA, a 3.2 SMP, and a 28 MCAT (after 3 retakes) do? This isn't my application profile, but I think it's a good example of someone who has a chance at DO and no chance at MD.

Also, advice from attendings may or may not be useful as they were applicants probably over a decade ago. The application process and competitiveness was way different a decade ago. The same is true for some residents.

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No duder. Her point was that if you hate the DO degree and what it stands for, then you shouldn't do it because you don't really respect it.

There are plenty of other things worth doing in medicine.

typicalindian said:

Every time I get a passage that I "enjoy" reading and understand, I get the most questions wrong in that passage. The passages where I'm like..."wtf did I just read?" are the ones that I get none to 1 wrong. I think there's something wrong with me...

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Hey. Okay. I'm sorry.

But I laughed out loud when I read this.

Good luck and keep it coming. My verbals score has been stuck for a while. I'm trying really hard to get it to budge but it has been tough tough tough.

ridethecliche said:

No duder. Her point was that if you hate the DO degree and what it stands for, then you shouldn't do it because you don't really respect it.

There are plenty of other things worth doing in medicine.

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Well I was pretty careful about clarifying that if you can't get into MD and you want to be a doctor, then DO is the only other option. I didn't say being a DO was the only other degree or career choice in medicine as a whole.

It's like when you RSVP to a wedding and have to choose chicken or fish. If you're deathly allergic to fish, but you hate chicken, you can either eat chicken or not eat at all. It wasn't trying to be a dick in the original post, I was just saying that MD and DO are the only degrees you can get if you want to be a doctor (except for PhD, but that's a completely different story). Logically, if MD isn't an option because you aren't competitive enough (like me and a lot of others), then DO is your only chance. If for some strange reason you hate DO enough to not be a physician, then that's your choice.

ridethecliche said:

Hey. Okay. I'm sorry.

But I laughed out loud when I read this.

Good luck and keep it coming. My verbals score has been stuck for a while. I'm trying really hard to get it to budge but it has been tough tough tough.

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Haha yea I think something may have clicked finally...I got an 11 on verbal during yesterdays AAMC

MedPR said:

How did she know which schools wouldn't automatically screen her out? I could use a similar list for GPA requirements

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There's no 'official list,' but schools will post it on their website usually or, if not, you can just email them and ask. It's worth the three minutes of email typing to figure out whether or not you're wasting your time. We both attended a tour of the school and the dean of admissions went over requirements. The school only required a minimum of 20 MCAT and 3.75 GPA for secondaries to be granted and interviews to be considered in-state, as an example.

CaribbeanBlue said:

So sad story, after reading all of the encouraging posts, I decided to try and stick with my test date on the 28th and took EK Practice Test 12... and got a 6...

Looks like I just need to hone in reading skills, honestly. Would it be a bad idea to just take time to read newspapers/articles/journals for several months to a year, take the MCAT then and THEN apply to medical school??

I believe I would then be dropping the exam on April 28th... in which the deadline is the 14th am I correct?

This is pretty sad... considering I always score double digits on sciences and have pretty decent cGPA/sGPAs as well.

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Okay, I'll keep saying this, but if your application is overall strong (which is what you're implying to me), I'd say go for it. If you pull a 28-30 with a 4-6 in verbal, try applying anyway (assuming you have the funds, also), just be selective and make sure you won't be automatically screened out by emailing the school you're interested in applying to first.

Then, whether or not you apply, start strengthening your application for a second round. If medicine is what you want, a year off isn't so bad. Spend a year reading and prepping verbal. Maybe pick up an AP Literature/Language prep book--the skills I picked up in intensive high school classes are, oddly enough, what have carried me through verbal. Check out the '100 books everyone should read' list and pull from that. But don't spend your entire year freaking out about verbal--apply for internships, volunteer, shadow, take some extra classes, etc. Make the year you take off about being a better applicant overall, not about learning to read. If all goes well, you'll get in the first cycle and you'll have had some additional cool experiences to think back on later in life. If not, hunker down and try again.

xGeorgettex said:

There's no 'official list,' but schools will post it on their website usually or, if not, you can just email them and ask. It's worth the three minutes of email typing to figure out whether or not you're wasting your time. We both attended a tour of the school and the dean of admissions went over requirements. The school only required a minimum of 20 MCAT and 3.75 GPA for secondaries to be granted and interviews to be considered in-state, as an example.

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What school was this if you don't mind me asking?

Have you tried working with a private tutor or some one else who can provide you with one on one help. There is a medical student who posts on classifieds that offers verbal tutoring. I am sure you have already tried practicing with several methods, but i posted a thread in which I discuss how i raised my verbal score from a 7 to an 11 on my retake.
Here is a link to the thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=894010

don't give up. I was once in a very similar situation as you. Delay the mcat if you are not comfortable with your score. I had originally planned to apply to medical schools last year, but after receiving a low score of 22 on mcat in april of last year, I found myself asking the same question as you about dropping medicine and start looking for alternate career options. Fortunately, I convinced myself to stop complaining and started studying for a retake. I scored a 32 on my January mcat retake. If medicine is truly your dream, then don't let one section on the mcat come in its way. GOOD LUCK!

Whiteshoes said:

I may be incorrect on this but won't a 6 screen him out of DO schools too

Follow the advices mentioned above they really do work.

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I was given an interview and placed on the waitlist at a DO school with a 10/6/12 and 3.67 GPA. They said the biggest reason I was on the waitlist was because I had applied so late (about a week before the deadline, I wasn't going to apply at all because people had told me a 6 just wouldnt cut it, but a DO convinced me to with his point being, what do you have to lose? If you dont get in you dont get in, but you sure as hell arent getting in without applying) and because my app was a little light on community service. At the very end of the conversation with the dean he said, "oh you may think about trying to get the 6 up", but it seemed like the biggest deal was the other two things. I did, however, retake on april 5 to try and get that verbal up. Thought it was pretty tough, but fingers crossed!!

Bottom line, at least with my experience, a 6 doesn't mean you've got no chance!

CaribbeanBlue said:

I am in a big dilemma.

I will be taking the MCAT for the third time on 4/28. I voided the test in september and took my exam in Jan for a score of 10/6/11.

My problem is obviously the verbal reasoning. I have tried every strategy out there from princeton review to EK and more of even my own that I thought may work, but what it really comes down to is the fact that sometimes i don't even understand what the **** the passage is really saying. That and sometimes I'm never really sure what the answer is when I break it down to 50/50 because one answer's logic seems just as convincing as another and then I totally disagree with the answer reasonings on EK.

I have been scoring nothing higher than a 7 on verbal for my third preparation for the MCAT on EK 101 passages.
I am not ESL, but I realize that my issue is that I just never really read books and was so used to just skimming my whole life.

Should I honestly just give up after this last attempt and stop trying while it isn't too late? It is just so sad that the only thing stopping me from medical school is verbal since I haven't shown ANY signs of improvement in almost a year. Again, I tried all the strategies but all the strategies still require you to understand the passage, which I have trouble doing for some passages and I end up missing around 5 questions from that particular passage.

Should I just cancel my test date and hope to apply again June of 2013 or not even bother?

Thanks.

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Check out my blog (below), and you can read my experience with EK101's Verbal Reasoning. Read slowly, methodically plot out the story line in your head, and summarize every paragraph before proceeding. If you cannot succinctly paraphrase a paragraph within a passage, then you do not fully comprehend what is going on. Accordingly, you will doubt yourself, be unable to quickly eliminate silly prospective answers, and spend time searching back through the passage for the "explicit" answer. However, likely, the answer is one that usually must be inferred and/or is implicit. Hence, will run out of time.

I am not trying to pimp my blog, but I am seriously documenting my experience with EK101 right now. Let me know if I can do anything to help. Best of luck, friend.

Google mcat verbal virtuoso

Heard about it in a podcast. Sdn didn't think much of it if you search on here but you might think differently. If you do try it please post again and let us know what happened.

dmf2682 said:

Google mcat verbal virtuoso

Heard about it in a podcast. Sdn didn't think much of it if you search on here but you might think differently. If you do try it please post again and let us know what happened.

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i actually got this a few weeks ago, and have to say it's been doing wonders! got a 6 on VR last summer, retaking it this Friday. if you look at my other posts, at least in the TPRH verbal workbook which is supposed to be closer to the real thing and is also tougher (the questions are asked similar to the ones on real test), ive been getting a range of 11-13s. soo yea get it!

CaribbeanBlue said:

I am in a big dilemma.

I will be taking the MCAT for the third time on 4/28. I voided the test in september and took my exam in Jan for a score of 10/6/11.

My problem is obviously the verbal reasoning. I have tried every strategy out there from princeton review to EK and more of even my own that I thought may work, but what it really comes down to is the fact that sometimes i don't even understand what the **** the passage is really saying. That and sometimes I'm never really sure what the answer is when I break it down to 50/50 because one answer's logic seems just as convincing as another and then I totally disagree with the answer reasonings on EK.

I have been scoring nothing higher than a 7 on verbal for my third preparation for the MCAT on EK 101 passages.
I am not ESL, but I realize that my issue is that I just never really read books and was so used to just skimming my whole life.

Should I honestly just give up after this last attempt and stop trying while it isn't too late? It is just so sad that the only thing stopping me from medical school is verbal since I haven't shown ANY signs of improvement in almost a year. Again, I tried all the strategies but all the strategies still require you to understand the passage, which I have trouble doing for some passages and I end up missing around 5 questions from that particular passage.

Should I just cancel my test date and hope to apply again June of 2013 or not even bother?

Thanks.

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The trick is practicing speed-reading. Try subscribing to a sciencey magazine like SciAm and go through as many passages as you can. The MCAT takes a lot of their passages out of that mag. I did that for weeks and nailed a 12 on VR

Good luck, and I'm in the same boat as you. I'm doing horrible in Verbal, but I'm pressing on. GLGL!

Good idea; that thought never crossed my mind. Would you intentionally allot an amount of time while reading, or would you just read naturally?

I have the same exact problem as the OP. I simply can't do overly abstract passages, usually about philosophy or art. I uploaded two examples of which I only got about half the answers http://imgur.com/a/e3oYo. For example, in passage II, I feel fine through the first 3 paragraphs, then I am lost.

I have done A LOT of practice passages and there simply is no improvement. Half the time I get through a passage like this and I have no idea what the **** it's about. I have no idea what the main idea is, what the point of each paragraph is, or what the **** he is ever talking about. Sometimes I wonder if maybe my vocab isn't big enough, if it's because I've never had any exposure to philosophy texts, etc.

I took the MCAT once and got a 13/7/13/S. I took the test and just hoped for the best since I was usually around 9 or so on AAMC tests, but I want to aim for a 10. I'm redoing all the AAMC tests now and I don't see any improvement over my scores from last time, I'm still around a 9 consistently. I don't think I'm an idiot, I just feel there is something lacking in my education background that I just can't put a finger on. I don't read a lot, but enough that reading comprehension shouldn't be this big of a deal. I know someone who only learned to speak English when he was 10 years old, and still speaks very slowly and awkwardly, who can get a 10 on this section consistently. So why the **** can't I do that?

UGGGHHHH I ****ing hate the verbal