$1,400 Stimulus and $3,000 incr Child Tax Credit -- Should I work less?

[aqb]

ITS 2021 INCOME!
Yes, you won't get the prepayment in March 2021, but you should be able to reconcile in Spring 2022.

Can't you max 401ks?

Good to know. 401k already maxed.

Guess I’ll try to pump out another baby with the wife this month so it’ll come by December for another $1400

---

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[sfachine]

What evidence from the last decade makes you think otherwise? They've been debt spending for 2 decades.

The inflation is in the stock market.We are also printing money at a unheard rate,Interest rates are at zero.Medicare and Social Security are fiscal time bombs.

 

[owlegrad]

Except my original post was about small business owners; not Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos. And I still received those weird responses.

Concept is the same. If the owners can give themselves a raise, they can give raises to the workers as well.

If they can’t afford to pay their workers, they can’t afford to be in business.

 

[PharFromNormal]

$300/week unemployment is essentially $7.50/hr.

Maybe the employers should pay them more than that.

in NY the max unemployment benefit is $504/week if you were making 52k+ per year (25/hr)

Add the federal 300/week (also let’s just ignore the checks for now) and you’re at $804/week or $20/hr.

When I was a tech and intern and you said you could work 40 hrs per week and make 25/hr or work 0 hrs per week and make 20/hr.... the day parties with the boys all week would have been glorious.

Have kids? The equation gets even better.

To the answer of employers should just pay them more to make it worth their while... where is all this extra payroll spend coming from to do that?

 

[owlegrad]

in NY the max unemployment benefit is $504/week if you were making 52k+ per year (25/hr)

Add the federal 300/week (also let’s just ignore the checks for now) and you’re at $804/week or $20/hr.

When I was a tech and intern and you said you could work 40 hrs per week and make 25/hr or work 0 hrs per week and make 20/hr.... the day parties with the boys all week would have been glorious.

Have kids? The equation gets even better.

To the answer of employers should just pay them more to make it worth their while... where is all this extra payroll spend coming from to do that?

You wouldn't get $504/week if you lost your tech or intern job though, would you? They don't make 52k/yr.

 

[PharFromNormal]

Concept is the same. If the owners can give themselves a raise, they can give raises to the workers as well.

If they can’t afford to pay their workers, they can’t afford to be in business.

I didn’t see anything mentioned about owners giving themselves raises but not saying it didn’t happen.

If owners are putting more hours into their own business dont they deserve more? If they don’t take more and are working 60 hours instead of their previous normal of 40 because they can’t afford that other person that used to work for them... you’re going to say they don’t deserve to stay in business? A business owner working 1.5x for the same salary?

If they are ok with it ... who are you to say they shouldn’t be in business... didn’t know there were requirements on needing to employee others to run a business.

 

[PharFromNormal]

You wouldn't get $504/week if you lost your tech or intern job though, would you? They don't make 52k/yr.

Pharmacy Technician - Bronx, NY - Indeed.com

US Department of Veterans Affairs

www.indeed.com

Lemme know what that job listing says for salary for technician

 

[owlegrad]

I didn’t see anything mentioned about owners giving themselves raises but not saying it didn’t happen.

If owners are putting more hours into their own business dont they deserve more? If they don’t take more and are working 60 hours instead of their previous normal of 40 because they can’t afford that other person that used to work for them... you’re going to say they don’t deserve to stay in business? A business owner working 1.5x for the same salary?

If they are ok with it ... who are you to say they shouldn’t be in business... didn’t know there were requirements on needing to employee others to run a business.

If you look closely you will see I never said that. I actually don't know how much more owners deserve to be paid than their employees. Maybe there is no limit.

My only point was that companies not having enough money to give raises falls flat to me when those same companies can afford to give executives raises. The point is the profit goes to the top, not to the workers. If you can afford a raise to the top you can afford to pay more to the bottom. And for some reason, people believe the BS that companies cannot afford to pay more.

 

[PharFromNormal]

If you look closely you will see I never said that. I actually don't know how much more owners deserve to be paid than their employees. Maybe there is no limit.

My only point was that companies not having enough money to give raises falls flat to me when those same companies can afford to give executives raises. The point is the profit goes to the top, not to the workers. If you can afford a raise to the top you can afford to pay more to the bottom. And for some reason, people believe the BS that companies cannot afford to pay more.

I don’t think you should confuse small rural local independent businesses that could be decimated by increases in federal minimum wages, and mega corps with executives that demand high performance bonuses in exchange for executing layoffs, navigating through liquidation or bankruptcy etc.

If you have a problem with the megacorps issuing bonuses and raises to their execs that’s fine but don’t blame the execs for getting paid more, someone authorized that and at the end of that someone chain is the shareholders. Get pissed at the shareholders of cvs, notably blackrock probably a few other big firms, that they aren’t compensating people appropriately and say they are the problem that enables it.

 

[Chrish]

Concept is the same. If the owners can give themselves a raise, they can give raises to the workers as well.

If they can’t afford to pay their workers, they can’t afford to be in business.

Every small business owner is salaried. They get paid the same whether they work 40 hours or 80 hours a week. Their workers on the other hand are almost always hourly. So it’s an apple to orange comparison when it comes to their respective raises.

 

[JustFillIt]

Except my original post was about small business owners; not Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos. And I still received those weird responses.

Weird responses are in the eye of the beholder.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

The inflation is in the stock market.We are also printing money at a unheard rate,Interest rates are at zero.Medicare and Social Security are fiscal time bombs.

Inflation is calculated based on the price of goods. The stock market is just overvalued. PE ratios are ridiculous and it will correct eventually.

Social security trust will likely run out, but it's mostly funded by taxing current workers. Benefits will just be reduced. Not sure how that's a "timebomb."

Medicare is only expensive because we allow it to be. Healthcare is cheaper everywhere else. That might be a "timebomb" but not because of inflation.

 

[BidingMyTime]

I'm a libertarian, but even I can see that the idea that people are comfortably living on unemployment is ridiculous. Unemployment varies widely by states, but I don't know of any state where it is monetarily beneficial to collect unemployment, rather than get a job (the exception being, if one is only being offered part-time minimum wage jobs, the part-time salary might pay less then unemployment, at the same time it kicks someone out from getting unemployment.) Unless someone has a sugar daddy or mommy on the side, one is going to be finanically better off getting a job.

 

[NITRAS]

Inflation is calculated based on the price of goods. The stock market is just overvalued. PE ratios are ridiculous and it will correct eventually.

Social security trust will likely run out, but it's mostly funded by taxing current workers. Benefits will just be reduced. Not sure how that's a "timebomb."

Medicare is only expensive because we allow it to be. Healthcare is cheaper everywhere else. That might be a "timebomb" but not because of inflation.

When SS and Medicare become unfundable at current rates, there will be hard decisions of increasing taxes and reducing distributions.

I mean, I’d call it a timeBomb. It won’t cause an explosion, but it is serious flaw in the design of SS that has been known about for decades that will result in hard decisions (hence the reason the can has been kicked down the road).

I mean, the average 60 y/o has way more wealth than your average working person, but a good chunk of them have no money and plan other than SS.

My opinion is that government policy should focus on increasing productivity. Focusing on minimum wage is the wrong direction of governmental policy.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

When SS and Medicare become unfundable at current rates, there will be hard decisions of increasing taxes and reducing distributions.

I mean, I’d call it a timeBomb. It won’t cause an explosion, but it is serious flaw in the design of SS that has been known about for decades that will result in hard decisions (hence the reason the can has been kicked down the road).

I mean, the average 60 y/o has way more wealth than your average working person, but a good chunk of them have no money and plan other than SS.

My opinion is that government policy should focus on increasing productivity. Focusing on minimum wage is the wrong

Social Security is already figured out. The trust is just going to run out and benefits will be reduced. lol.

 

[Sine Cura]

Remember that "seniors" deserve to eat ****

Why u entitled to wealth redistribution sweaty

Researchers Decry Declining Births in America, But What Incentives Are There for People to Have Babies?

The pandemic has helped usher in a decline in new babies being born in America, continuing a trend of diminishing birth rates that threatens the replacement levels of the country’s population.

autos.yahoo.com

Dowell Myers, a professor in urban planning and demography at the University of South California, told CBS the situation is a crisis. Especially since the number of Americans who are 85 and older is expected to double by 2040.

“We need to have enough working-age people to carry the load of these seniors, who deserve their retirement, they deserve all their entitlements, and they’re gonna live out another 30 years,” said Myers. “Nobody in the history of the globe has had so many older people to deal with.”

 

[JustFillIt]

I'm a libertarian, but even I can see that the idea that people are comfortably living on unemployment is ridiculous. Unemployment varies widely by states, but I don't know of any state where it is monetarily beneficial to collect unemployment, rather than get a job (the exception being, if one is only being offered part-time minimum wage jobs, the part-time salary might pay less then unemployment, at the same time it kicks someone out from getting unemployment.) Unless someone has a sugar daddy or mommy on the side, one is going to be finanically better off getting a job.

Currently - my sugar momma is called GameStop.

 

[PharFromNormal]

I'm a libertarian, but even I can see that the idea that people are comfortably living on unemployment is ridiculous. Unemployment varies widely by states, but I don't know of any state where it is monetarily beneficial to collect unemployment, rather than get a job (the exception being, if one is only being offered part-time minimum wage jobs, the part-time salary might pay less then unemployment, at the same time it kicks someone out from getting unemployment.) Unless someone has a sugar daddy or mommy on the side, one is going to be finanically better off getting a job.

I think the gap is where you say “one is going to be financially better off getting a job.”
I don’t think anyone here disagrees with that.

What I believe, and others may have their own opinions that they are entitled to, is that peoples real actions and choices aren’t completely or even at all based on financial impact to them. There’s countless examples of things where it would be prudent for people to do X because it’s financially beneficial to them and a significant percent of people still don’t do it.

Hell look at the thousands of people that post on here complaining about student loans. I’m sure a significant portion of them could have went somewhere cheaper for undergrad or pre-reqs like even a community college and saved tons of money, but didn’t even though it would have financially made more sense.

There’s a good portion of people that haven’t been working or working as hard as they did before (and others that have worked extra hard) motivation to return to work for some can take more than a bigger check. Personally I know of job opportunities within my company that pay better, that I’m qualified for, that I could probably secure, but I don’t want the extra headache that comes along with it. There’s a marginal return on happiness based on pay. Sure the returns are higher in the lower rates but the pandemic has certainly changed many perceptions.

 

[PharFromNormal]

I'm a libertarian, but even I can see that the idea that people are comfortably living on unemployment is ridiculous. Unemployment varies widely by states, but I don't know of any state where it is monetarily beneficial to collect unemployment, rather than get a job (the exception being, if one is only being offered part-time minimum wage jobs, the part-time salary might pay less then unemployment, at the same time it kicks someone out from getting unemployment.) Unless someone has a sugar daddy or mommy on the side, one is going to be finanically better off getting a job.

Don’t just look at the incremental revenue that a person receives working vs unemployment, you also need to consider potential costs for them to return to work that they may not have when unemployed. Getting used to spending a lot of time with young kids vs. now also having to pay for childcare so you can work... transportation costs, people that have moved since the start of the pandemic, finding a new job altogether because your previous employer may not be around or staffing to the same levels yet....

I don’t want people to want to stay unemployed. There 100% are and will be people that continue to think that is, in their opinion, the best path forward for them, regardless of what you or I think. The goal should be to minimize that group. Financial offsets to remain unemployed doesn’t really help the cause to get them working again...

 

[PharmtoCS]

The inflation is in the stock market.We are also printing money at a unheard rate,Interest rates are at zero.Medicare and Social Security are fiscal time bombs.

Also the housing market. Home prices have skyrocketed within the last decade and especially so within 2020.

 

[lord999]

Inflation is calculated based on the price of goods. The stock market is just overvalued. PE ratios are ridiculous and it will correct eventually.

Social security trust will likely run out, but it's mostly funded by taxing current workers. Benefits will just be reduced. Not sure how that's a "timebomb."

Medicare is only expensive because we allow it to be. Healthcare is cheaper everywhere else. That might be a "timebomb" but not because of inflation.

CMS is a timebomb from an actuarial standpoint. The Trust is going to force a hard correction, and unlike SS which has an outlet due to the Greenspan commission, no one wants to deal with it. I expect it to crash and everyone is screwed.

SS is fine, despite the politics. The easiest fix is to remove the cap on income to the SS trust with the benefit ceiling in effect, and I'm in favor of that even though that does negatively affect my tax burden. That's basically what is going to happen.

But if any of us are expecting to be dependent on SS or CMS, I'd rethink that. I would plan for being on your own if all possible. It's nice if we can collect, but we shouldn't count on either. My personal expectation is that SS is paid like it is in other countries, too low to be meaningful in terms of purchasing power but avoids having to do other forms of social support.

And if nothing else, becoming a convict at 70 is an option. Just make sure it's a federal crime and not a state one. I think the Japanese have to boost their SS as it's costlier to imprison than just to pay out low benefits. Singapore also has this problem.

Why some Japanese pensioners want to go to jail

Japan is in the grip of an elderly crime wave. Poverty and loneliness are two of the possible causes.

www.bbc.com

 

[thecoolpharmboi]

Good to know. 401k already maxed.

Guess I’ll try to pump out another baby with the wife this month so it’ll come by December for another $1400

Oh wow....

 

[sfachine]

Social Security is already figured out. The trust is just going to run out and benefits will be reduced. lol.

That makes sense but it won't happen.They will print money.

 

[Sine Cura]

Government go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[rxdawg21]

The billionaires of America got richer during the pandemic. Can you even imagine what a billion dollars is? I cannot. I would be more sympathetic to the argument that businesses “can’t afford to pay more” if the billionaire owners weren’t getting more profit every day. Clearly they can afford to pay more since they are already paying more, just not to the working class.

To be fair I’m fairly certain they are getting richer due to their stocks skyrocketing. Which isn’t the same as paying their workers more. Although if you dug into the math I’m sure they could pay more.

but let’s look at Walmart. They have made between 10-15 billion net profit last few years. They employ 2.2 million. If they changed to neutral profit (break even) they could pay each worker an additional 6363 (using high end of 14 billion a year net profit) a year or $3 dollars an hour if dividing by 2080 ( yearly full time hourly person).
Of course above math is a little disengious. The higher earners don’t need this pay raise an majority of people that do aren’t full time and if they are they are working more like 33-36 hours a week. Unable to do exact math but you can see that if Walmart all the sudden paid all these people $15 bucks and didn’t drastically cut back labor (like they have with rapidly expanding self checkout) their profit would take significant hit. Of course I’m definitely not arguing thst these billionaires need that much money and The rapid growth and inequality is sickening. But money makes money, someone worth low millions still gonna em have much more money at a faster accumulation rate then the person with little savings based on investment returns etc. even if both getting same 10% returns. The guy with 1 million invested now has 1.1 million and the guy with 10k has 11k. It’s a perpetual cycle and much more to it then just increasing wages

 

[BenJammin]

This thread is doing nothing to dispel the belief that we're turning into a nation of deadbeats.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Instead of tax and spend the new strategy of the government is to print and spend.

 

[Sine Cura]

MMT is the new religion

 

[Sparda29]

Instead of tax and spend the new strategy of the government is to print and spend.

I mean, if you tell someone their job is nonessential and they cannot work, you gotta pay them instead of expecting them to get a different job that pays ****.

The restaurant workers and bartenders are probably the most affected and they certainly will not pick up fast food jobs or Walmart jobs when they were making bank with tips.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Social Security is already figured out. The trust is just going to run out and benefits will be reduced. lol.

or we eliminate the social security max tax per year and keep benefits the same - that would allow SS to last MUCH longer

 

[WVUPharm2007]

or we eliminate the social security max tax per year and keep benefits the same - that would allow SS to last MUCH longer

That would increase benefits markedly. But Social Security isn't going to "run out" the trust will just be exhausted. People will still be taxed and provide benefits for retirees.

 

[Dred Pirate]

That would increase benefits markedly. But Social Security isn't going to "run out" the trust will just be exhausted. People will still be taxed and provide benefits for retirees.

correct - but like you said, once the trust is exhausted - you either need to raise the withholding or lower benefits (or borrow the money since we all know our government loves to borrow money) - SS is the only regressive tax (that I can think of) that we have - meaning the lower income people are taxed at a higher rate than the higher income. Trust me, I love not having to pay SS withholding on my last few paychecks of the year, but I don't plan on relying on SS when I retire - I just don't put it into my calculations - anything that is still there is a bonus. I don't see the government reducing benefits- that is poitical suicide - old people vote - my idea would allow us to keep benefits the same for a much longer time.

 

[Chrish]

I mean, if you tell someone their job is nonessential and they cannot work, you gotta pay them instead of expecting them to get a different job that pays ****.

The restaurant workers and bartenders are probably the most affected and they certainly will not pick up fast food jobs or Walmart jobs when they were making bank with tips.

It’s like saying pharmacists won’t work for $45 an hour in future since they are used to $60 despite the saturation.

Your worth is determined by supply and demand; not based on what you used to make in the past. If your skill set is no longer in demand, you either acquire new skills and change the field or stick with what you know and bear the consequences.

 

[PharFromNormal]

It’s like saying pharmacists won’t work for $45 an hour in future since they are used to $60 despite the saturation.

Your worth is determined by supply and demand; not based on what you used to make in the past. If your skill set is no longer in demand, you either acquire new skills and change the field or stick with what you know and bear the consequences.

The worth of ones work may be heavily influenced by supply and demand.

But the individuals worth of that time spent working to get that ROI is influenced by several other factors. If the rate goes low enough I bet you’ll find more people seeking careers that may be paying less than the $45/hr because that’s what they want to do.

Pharmacist is a bad example to use from a pandemic perspective because they are essential workers that didn’t have a mass unemployment that we are trying to get people back to work for...

 

[Sparda29]

It’s like saying pharmacists won’t work for $45 an hour in future since they are used to $60 despite the saturation.

Your worth is determined by supply and demand; not based on what you used to make in the past. If your skill set is no longer in demand, you either acquire new skills and change the field or stick with what you know and bear the consequences.

This was nothing to do with supply and demand, this was due to government regulation telling people they can't work anymore. It should have been handled like the UK where you got paid 80% of your original pay while being furloughed (to a max of 2,500 GBP a month).

Either that, or increase the minimum wage to a living wage. If you're not gonna do that, then don't complain when people start looting and robbing.

 

[radio frequency]

Are we supposed to feel bad for them?

Pay them competitively. Offer $20-25/hr with 100% employer paid health insurance and 4 weeks vacation.

So much this. If you can't afford to pay non-poverty wages to your employees, you don't deserve to be in business.

 

[radio frequency]

or we eliminate the social security max tax per year and keep benefits the same - that would allow SS to last MUCH longer

Yes to this. Every year dating back to my first year as a pharmacist, I have hoped I would hit a salary that goes over the Social Security max so a few dollars of mine will be social security-free. I am now at a salary I never expected to make, yet the social security max keeps going up alongside my salary, and still every dollar I make is subject to it. I'm still just under the max! Such a frustrating goal to keep.

It really is kind of crazy they don't just eliminate the maximum. There shouldn't be a maximum. And yes...never count your social security funds before they are in your hands. If I get social security, it would be nice, but I never consider it in my retirement planning.

 

[owlegrad]

So much this. If you can't afford to pay non-poverty wages to your employees, you don't deserve to be in business.

Ha, I said the same thing.

 

[Sine Cura]

Walmart can afford to pay poverty wages

 

[Sunshine98*]

I just knew when Pharmacists were finally added to a stimulus package bill last year that bill would be dead. For those that do get $$ save it, invest it. Pretend it doesn't exist.

 

[lord999]

correct - but like you said, once the trust is exhausted - you either need to raise the withholding or lower benefits (or borrow the money since we all know our government loves to borrow money) - SS is the only regressive tax (that I can think of) that we have - meaning the lower income people are taxed at a higher rate than the higher income. Trust me, I love not having to pay SS withholding on my last few paychecks of the year, but I don't plan on relying on SS when I retire - I just don't put it into my calculations - anything that is still there is a bonus. I don't see the government reducing benefits- that is poitical suicide - old people vote - my idea would allow us to keep benefits the same for a much longer time.

And that's the actuaries' position as well. Too low a set of benefits, and you get constructive imprisonment (going to jail for financial reasons), too high a set and it bankrupts. The real problem is that this democracy fails to act until we are in a crisis, so a more nimble dictatorship is on our anxious minds. The other problem is that there is wage pressure downwards or productivity pressure upwards. We'll make our money, but we'll have to earn it.

That said, having a larger working and desperate underclass makes it easier for us to have household service and tradesmen. It's nice not having to worry about any house projects anymore as handymen are a lot cheaper than normal for some reason. The amount of money needed to hire a permanent domestic employee is now in the high $40s when it was in the $60s a decade ago.

 

[radio frequency]

And that's the actuaries' position as well. Too low a set of benefits, and you get constructive imprisonment (going to jail for financial reasons), too high a set and it bankrupts. The real problem is that this democracy fails to act until we are in a crisis, so a more nimble dictatorship is on our anxious minds. The other problem is that there is wage pressure downwards or productivity pressure upwards. We'll make our money, but we'll have to earn it.

That said, having a larger working and desperate underclass makes it easier for us to have household service and tradesmen. It's nice not having to worry about any house projects anymore as handymen are a lot cheaper than normal for some reason. The amount of money needed to hire a permanent domestic employee is now in the high $40s when it was in the $60s a decade ago.

I 100% agree with this, but I can't like it. Because that feels wrong.

 

[JustFillIt]

For whoever thinks inflation is not real:

I went to 5 guys last night and bought 1 double cheeseburger, 1 children’s cheeseburger, and 1 large fries (no drink or extras). Cost was 23 dollars.

I don’t care what kind of fancy charts I am shown or calculations which are skewed to hide reality - inflation is very real and it’s going to continue to get worse. In my opinion...

 

[Sine Cura]

Fast food prices have gone up but Five Guys is also a rip off.

I don't like buying drinks.


Shake Shack: Shackburger ($6.09) + fries ($3.09) = $9.18
The Habit Burger Grill (regional chain): Santa Barbara Char ($7.05) + Onion Rings ($2.99) = $10.04
In-N-Out: "usually" just order 2 cheeseburgers so definitely under $10

Five Guys: hamburger ($8.72) + "little fries" ($4.22) = $12.94



Also Chick Fil A spicy chicken meal is $8.09 pre tax

pre tax. those are literally the prices right now in my area

 

[iamapharmacist]

With all these asian hate crimes, im buying guns with my wife’s stimulus check. Come and get some.

 

[Sine Cura]

Remember Marky Mark actually had a successful career in entertainment.

The full list of Mark Wahlberg's racist hate crimes

Actor was charged for multiple racially motivated attacks as a teenager

www.independent.co.uk

 

[iamapharmacist]

Remember Marky Mark actually had a successful career in entertainment.

The full list of Mark Wahlberg's racist hate crimes

Actor was charged for multiple racially motivated attacks as a teenager

www.independent.co.uk

For sure and i love the dude but if he comes at me and my family for us being asian, imma put holes in his face.

 

[Sparda29]

With all these asian hate crimes, im buying guns with my wife’s stimulus check. Come and get some.

Lemme know where you find them and ammo in stock (at cheap prices).

 

[iamapharmacist]

Lemme know where you find them and ammo in stock (at cheap prices).

First time gun owner so i dont know what would be considered cheap but i did find some in rural area gun shops north of fort worth. Also bought a machete. Honestly, i feel like the machete is probably the best weapon to use on these attacks. Make sure the attacker does not walk away alive.

 

[Sparda29]

First time gun owner so i dont know what would be considered cheap but i did find some in rural area gun shops north of fort worth. Also bought a machete. Honestly, i feel like the machete is probably the best weapon to use on these attacks. Make sure the attacker does not walk away alive.

Machete seems like a good way to get yourself killed.

Stick to pepper spray.