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determinedfuture

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So today at work I finally got a chance to watch a thoracic surgical procedure. I was excited about it because I am really cool with the surgical doctor. However the anesthesiologist was very rude. Because I work in sterile processing, which is looked down on in the surgery department, he felt it was necessary to try and belittle me. Luckily the surgical doctor took up for me and told him to just let me watch and not worry about what department I'm from. I wasn't even there to watch him. After back and forth bickering, he finally put the patient to sleep. So unprofessional, but i guess some things cant be learned in school, you either have it or you dont. RESPECT. Personally, I feel people in the Healthcare field should encourage each other. It's already hard enough to pursue A career in medicine anyway. Although becoming a doctor is something im pursuing, I really hope I don't become like him. I will never forget what it was like and how someone gave me an opportunity. What it all boils down to is that no matter the title we are all human beings and there is a certain level of respect and integrity we should have for one another. I shouldn't have to showcase my B.S in biology to earn respect.....I wanted to say "Keep being rude, because I might take your job one day, but I didnt!" Lol....instead I'll let it shape my character....My love for medicine and the well being of others outweighs any ignorance.
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I'll be honest I read the title and thought this was gonna be another precious GallbLad post
 
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Be prepared, your entire M3 year will be about kissing the ass of people who who act like said anesthesiologist. Have fun.
 
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determinedfuture said:
So today at work I finally got a chance to watch a thoracic surgical procedure. I was excited about it because I am really cool with the surgical doctor. However the anesthesiologist was very rude. Because I work in sterile processing, which is looked down on in the surgery department, he felt it was necessary to try and belittle me. Luckily the surgical doctor took up for me and told him to just let me watch and not worry about what department I'm from. I wasn't even there to watch him. After back and forth bickering, he finally put the patient to sleep. So unprofessional, but i guess some things cant be learned in school, you either have it or you dont. RESPECT. Personally, I feel people in the Healthcare field should encourage each other. It's already hard enough to pursue A career in medicine anyway. Although becoming a doctor is something im pursuing, I really hope I don't become like him. I will never forget what it was like and how someone gave me an opportunity. What it all boils down to is that no matter the title we are all human beings and there is a certain level of respect and integrity we should have for one another. I shouldn't have to showcase my B.S in biology to earn respect.....I wanted to say "Keep being rude, because I might take your job one day, but I didnt!" Lol....instead I'll let it shape my character....My love for medicine and the well being of others outweighs any ignorance.
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Except when your ignorance affects the well being of others.

Anesthesiologist was probably worried about sterile precautions and making sure you were allowed to be in there.

Then again, I made a circulator nurse yell at the anesthesiology resident once because he kept playing with his mask and took it off his nose a few times during a case...
 
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The anesthesiologist has every right to inquire whether anyone in the room should be there.
If there were any doubt regarding patient safety, "rudeness" is the least important concern.
 
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I couldn't care less who the surgeon brings into the room to watch, but the circulating nurse would have to add watching you to the list of things she has to do. The surgeon will be busy doing other things, and policing the sterile fields and your potential violation of them, while everyone's job, isn't going to be my job unless you are my guest.
I would be curious to know what the anesthesiologist said, especially about sterile processing, who cares where you work.
 
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Why is sterile processing looked down upon? I would say it's a crucial job in the surgical field
 
gyngyn said:
The anesthesiologist has every right to inquire whether anyone in the room should be there.
If there were any doubt regarding patient safety "rudeness" is the least important concern.
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I agree that if given a choice between patient safety and being polite, patient safety wins. However, why can't we accomplish both sometimes?
 
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ridethecliche said:
Except when your ignorance affects the well being of others.

Anesthesiologist was probably worried about sterile precautions and making sure you were allowed to be in there.

Then again, I made a circulator nurse yell at the anesthesiology resident once because he kept playing with his mask and took it off his nose a few times during a case...
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I'm familiar with not contaminating the sterile field. I've shadowed many doctors before and even assisted them.
IlDestriero said:
I couldn't care less who the surgeon brings into the room to watch, but the circulating nurse would have to add watching you to the list of things she has to do. The surgeon will be busy doing other things, and policing the sterile fields and your potential violation of them, while everyone's job, isn't going to be my job unless you are my guest.
I would be curious to know what the anesthesiologist said, especially about sterile processing, who cares where you work.
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Exactly, the nurse documented my name and went over all the rules. I observed doctors before and I'm familiar with the sterile field. I knew everyone in there. The surgeon has been asking me to watch him and told me to just walk in with a mask and tell the nurse he requested me. The surgeon explained every detail and even showed me the piece of tumor removed from the lung. The anesthesiologist saw me in the room and the surgeon said explain to her what your doing. He looked at me with this look in his eyed said why she's from sterile processing. They way he said was as if I wouldnot understand and there was no point. His tone was so belittling that even the surgeon had to step in and tell him to quit being an A**hole. His exact words. I know disrespect when I see it
 
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it's funny how you're complaining about someone else being rude by being rude to an entire profession which happens to be the one that this website is devoted to
 
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turkeytomato said:
I agree that if given a choice between patient safety and being polite, patient safety wins. However, why can't we accomplish both sometimes?
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Civility is always preferred. I am not convinced OP is a good judge given her post.
 
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gyngyn said:
The anesthesiologist has every right to inquire whether anyone in the room should be there.
If there were any doubt regarding patient safety, "rudeness" is the least important concern.
Click to expand...
True, but when the anesthesiologist is right there when the doctor is telling the entire room that I'm shadowing him, then I see no need for the comment he made. But even the surgeon thought it was offensive and stepped in. I wasn't compromising the safety of the patient at all by watching. And if there was any concern I think the surgeon wouldn't have asked me to observe what he was doing. I wasn't near the patient, I was watching the monitor.
 
K1NG said:
Why is sterile processing looked down upon? I would say it's a crucial job in the surgical field
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Yesince you would think so, but working in that field is not the case, as agreed with many of my coworkers
 
Well, perhaps it was more about the surgeon telling the anesthesiologist to explain to you what he was doing. Depending on the surgeon, the patient, and how they said it, I might have told him to go sharpen the knives. Did he identify you as someone shadowing him or Ms DererminedFuture from sterile processing? How it was presented may have dramatically affected the outcome.
 
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determinedfuture said:
True, but when the anesthesiologist is right there when the doctor is telling the entire room that I'm shadowing him, then I see no need for the comment he made. But even the surgeon thought it was offensive and stepped in. I wasn't compromising the safety of the patient at all by watching. And if there was any concern I think the surgeon wouldn't have asked me to observe what he was doing. I wasn't near the patient, I was watching the monitor.
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Neither you nor we have any way of knowing if patient safety would have been compromised by your presence.
Anesthesia is in charge of determining the appropriateness of extraneous personnel (shadowing notwithstanding).
 
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Psai said:
it's funny how you're complaining about someone else being rude by being rude to an entire profession which happens to be the one that this website is devoted to
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The post is geared towards understanding that a title shouldn't determine your character and how you treat people. Nor does a title give u permission to be rude at any given point. I stated that you should be willing to help others who are looking for opportunities to advance their education. Be the example that someone can look up to.
 
Psai said:
it's funny how you're complaining about someone else being rude by being rude to an entire profession which happens to be the one that this website is devoted to
Click to expand...

The post is geared towards understanding that a title shouldn't determine your character and how you treat people. Nor does a title give u permission to be rude at any given point. I stated that you should be willing to help others who are looking for opportunities to advance their education. Be the example that someone can look up to.
IlDestriero said:
Well, perhaps it was more about the surgeon telling the anesthesiologist to explain to you what he was doing. Depending on the surgeon, the patient, and how they said it, I might have told him to go sharpen the knives. Did he identify you as someone shadowing him or Ms DererminedFuture from sterile processing? How it was presented may have dramatically affected the outcome.
Click to expand...

Well I've been working there for a year and I know almost every doctor in the hospital. Each of them know that I will be attending medical school and so they all wanted be to watch a few procedures. The surgeon said that I will be watching the entire procedure and that he wanTed me to get a feel for how things work in the OR. He asked the anesthesiologist to explain what he was doing and thats when he became rude.
 
determinedfuture said:
His tone was so belittling that even the surgeon had to step in and tell him to quit being an A**hole. His exact words. I know disrespect when I see it
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The quality of the work environment was clearly compromised by at least one person.
 
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determinedfuture said:
The post is geared towards understanding that a title shouldn't determine your character and how you treat people. Nor does a title give u permission to be rude at any given point. I stated that you should be willing to help others who are looking for opportunities to advance their education. Be the example that someone can look up to.
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how do you know it had anything to do with the title? did he say "as a doctor i'm kicking you out of the or"
 
gonnif said:
Great excerpt on this topic from "House of God" by Samuel Shem, a not so fictional account of intern at Mass General Hospital. An M3 would be even lower than an intern

"While the straight shot down from the top of the medical hierarchy got the intern, the intern was at the
bottom of the other hierarchies only indirectly. In many tricky ways he had the opportunity to be abused
at any time by Private Doctors, House Administration, Nursing, Patients, Social Service, Telephone and
Beeper Operators, and Housekeeping. The latter made the beds and regulated the heat, cold, toilets, linen,
and general repairs. The interns were completely at their mercy.

The House medical hierarchy was a pyramid—a lot at the bottom and one at the top. Given the mentality
required to climb it, it was more like an ice cream cone—you had to lick your way up. From constant
application of tongue to next uppermost ass, those few toward the top were all tongue. A mapping of
each sensory cortex would show a homunculus with a mammoth tongue overlapping an enormous
portion of brain. The nice thing about the ice-cream cone was that from the bottom, you got a clear view
of the slurping going on. There they were, the Slurpers, greedy optimistic kids in an ice-cream parlor in
July, tonguing and tonguing and tonguing away. It was quite a sight."
Click to expand...

oh very much so... A judgment of your professionalism in medical training is entirely dependent on your rung on the ladder. The short coat of a med student basically signals them as a rung below the people who scrub the toilets at night.
 
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Pholaffle said:
I'll be honest I read the title and thought this was gonna be another precious GallbLad post
Click to expand...

I was going to say exactly this!!!! Lol

But yeah, there are douchebags in every field, and medicine is no exception. I sometimes have nurses mutter things about "volunteers" to each other if I don't do something exactly right and in under .5 seconds while I'm volunteering. Kind of pisses me off sometimes, but you just have to take the duck approach and let it just roll off your feathers.
 
Sounds like 3 insecure people in a room together. All that drama doesn't matter. At the end of the day you can only account for yourself.
 
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determinedfuture said:
So today at work I finally got a chance to watch a thoracic surgical procedure. I was excited about it because I am really cool with the surgical doctor. However the anesthesiologist was very rude. Because I work in sterile processing, which is looked down on in the surgery department, he felt it was necessary to try and belittle me. Luckily the surgical doctor took up for me and told him to just let me watch and not worry about what department I'm from. I wasn't even there to watch him. After back and forth bickering, he finally put the patient to sleep. So unprofessional, but i guess some things cant be learned in school, you either have it or you dont. RESPECT. Personally, I feel people in the Healthcare field should encourage each other. It's already hard enough to pursue A career in medicine anyway. Although becoming a doctor is something im pursuing, I really hope I don't become like him. I will never forget what it was like and how someone gave me an opportunity. What it all boils down to is that no matter the title we are all human beings and there is a certain level of respect and integrity we should have for one another. I shouldn't have to showcase my B.S in biology to earn respect.....I wanted to say "Keep being rude, because I might take your job one day, but I didnt!" Lol....instead I'll let it shape my character....My love for medicine and the well being of others outweighs any ignorance.
Click to expand...
This anesthesiologist probably thought you were annoying. You sound like one of the kids who gets their name stitched into a white coat, honestly.

As premeds we're all scrubs; I haven't gone through 15+ years of school yet, so I don't think I deserve the utmost respect (a neurosurgeon once told me surgery is a hierarchy). I've shadowed my share of doctors and if they're rude, oh well. All of these women and men are overworked. You can't take it personally..

I wanted to say "Keep being rude, because I might take your job one day, but I didnt!" Lol....instead I'll let it shape my character....My love for medicine and the well being of others outweighs any ignorance."

:rolleyes:

You didn't say that to him because you would have gotten serviced.
.. Unless you want to become a CRNA, that is.
 
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WingedOx said:
Be prepared, your entire M3 year will be about kissing the ass of people who who act like said anesthesiologist. Have fun.
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Its not just M3 students. Somehow, all people are attracted/respond to those d-bags.
 
gyngyn said:
I would include the patient for 4.
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Yea, the surgeon and gas doc fighting right before general anesthesia is the last thing I'd want to hear, haha.
 
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NontradCA said:
Yea, the surgeon and gas doc fighting right before general anesthesia is the last thing I'd want to hear, haha.
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The patient is the most important person in the room.

With regard to the rest of this drama: ego is not your amigo.
 
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I'll second what @WingedOx said and add that there somehow are many dysfunctional people that somehow manage to practice medicine on a regular basis. Some of them have very abrasive personalities and seemingly can't work well with anyone. While I agree that everyone shouldn't be treated with a basic level of respect, understand that there are people out there that don't get that and will not accord you that. Some of those people may very well be your supervisors. I've heard a small number of stories of residents and attendings acting extremely unprofessionally (in a real "unprofessional" way, not nonsense BS "unprofessional") towards students and even patients. That's the way the world goes.

Maybe this person was a bad apple. Maybe you're misinterpreting what was said or misunderstood what was said. Who knows. One thing that's sure, though, is that being able to adapt to these rigid personalities and figuring out how to work around them is a critical skill both in life and in medicine. This will almost certainly not be the last person like that you encounter during your training or career.
 
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This is a pretty pretentious post for a pre-med who can't even write with proper grammar and punctuation. Your attitude in general doesn't sound any better than the person you were complaining about.
I'd probably be annoyed at you too.
 
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determinedfuture said:
True, but when the anesthesiologist is right there when the doctor is telling the entire room that I'm shadowing him, then I see no need for the comment he made. But even the surgeon thought it was offensive and stepped in. I wasn't compromising the safety of the patient at all by watching. And if there was any concern I think the surgeon wouldn't have asked me to observe what he was doing. I wasn't near the patient, I was watching the monitor.
Click to expand...

While it's great that the surgeons want you to see cases, I believe many hospitals strictly enforce the personnel allowed in the OR. In our hospital, medical/PA/nursing students are the lowest cut-off. Not all surgeons abide by this rule, but the rule is there for patient privacy and safety.

An operation is not some community production, nor was it meant to be a learning opportunity for you (since you're not a medical student). How many patients do you think would check the box "Yes" next to the question, "Would it be ok if non-students dropped in to watch just because?"

This is not about you. It was never meant to be about you. It doesn't matter if "the surgeon said so". If any of the physicians there don't want you there, more likely than not there's a good reason besides "just being a jackass". Not to mention, you disrupting the harmony between the anesthesiologist and the surgeon may compromise the efficiency of the operation and patient safety, which is something that must be avoided at all costs. Because, quite frankly, you're the least important person there.
 
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NontradCA said:
Yea, the surgeon and gas doc fighting right before general anesthesia is the last thing I'd want to hear, haha.
Click to expand...

"Who is this person and WHY ARE THEY IN MY O.R.? By the way Ms. Smith, take a few deep breaths and count backward from 10...."
 
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Finches said:
While it's great that the surgeons want you to see cases, I believe many hospitals strictly enforce the personnel allowed in the OR. In our hospital, medical/PA/nursing students are the lowest cut-off. Not all surgeons abide by this rule, but the rule is there for patient privacy and safety.

An operation is not some community production, nor was it meant to be a learning opportunity for you (since you're not a medical student). How many patients do you think would check the box "Yes" next to the question, "Would it be ok if non-students dropped in to watch just because?"

This is not about you. It was never meant to be about you. It doesn't matter if "the surgeon said so". If any of the physicians there don't want you there, more likely than not there's a good reason besides "just being a jackass". Not to mention, you disrupting the harmony between the anesthesiologist and the surgeon may compromise the efficiency of the operation and patient safety, which is something that must be avoided at all costs. Because, quite frankly, you're the least important person there.
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No he/she is the most important person there. The children are our future!
You will have my job, and you're welcome to it. I'll be on the beach or at the club.
 
Troll who constantly posted things like "You're not ever going to be a doctor, so what are you going to do?" or "all that work and you're going to be in so much debt!". I and others suspected he was doing this to discourage people from applying to med school so as to increase his own chances.

I vaguely recall his first posts as being really, really, ignorant of the app process. How ignorant? Almost criminally!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled SDN thread.


justadream said:
Lol can someone get me up to date about this guy?
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Something that working for $8/hr as a cashier at Home Depot taught me: don't take it personally when someone is rude to you. If you do, you'll spend 99% of your life angry and upset.
 
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determinedfuture said:
So today at work I finally got a chance to watch a thoracic surgical procedure. I was excited about it because I am really cool with the surgical doctor. However the anesthesiologist was very rude. Because I work in sterile processing, which is looked down on in the surgery department, he felt it was necessary to try and belittle me. Luckily the surgical doctor took up for me and told him to just let me watch and not worry about what department I'm from. I wasn't even there to watch him. After back and forth bickering, he finally put the patient to sleep. So unprofessional, but i guess some things cant be learned in school, you either have it or you dont. RESPECT. Personally, I feel people in the Healthcare field should encourage each other. It's already hard enough to pursue A career in medicine anyway. Although becoming a doctor is something im pursuing, I really hope I don't become like him. I will never forget what it was like and how someone gave me an opportunity. What it all boils down to is that no matter the title we are all human beings and there is a certain level of respect and integrity we should have for one another. I shouldn't have to showcase my B.S in biology to earn respect.....I wanted to say "Keep being rude, because I might take your job one day, but I didnt!" Lol....instead I'll let it shape my character....My love for medicine and the well being of others outweighs any ignorance.
Click to expand...
I remember watching Hopkins 24/7 and this doctor (I forgot his name, but he was pretty cool) is a gynecological oncologist and said that he doesn't like to come in to the room and say, "Hey, I'm Dr. _____." He likes to introduce himself with his first name because he wants the patient to feel like they are on the same level (like talking to a friend) and they know he is a doctor and why they are there. I think I would like to incorporate that, but not in residency, I don't want to get confused as the guy who picks up the trays lol (I'm Hispanic).
 
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hmmmm "thoracic surgical procedure" and "tumor." I wonder if it was an a-line, central line, double lumen kind of day for the anesthesiologist lol. That would explain the terseness.
 
determinedfuture said:
The post is geared towards understanding that a title shouldn't determine your character and how you treat people. Nor does a title give u permission to be rude at any given point. I stated that you should be willing to help others who are looking for opportunities to advance their education. Be the example that someone can look up to.


Well I've been working there for a year and I know almost every doctor in the hospital. Each of them know that I will be attending medical school and so they all wanted be to watch a few procedures. The surgeon said that I will be watching the entire procedure and that he wanTed me to get a feel for how things work in the OR. He asked the anesthesiologist to explain what he was doing and thats when he became rude.
Click to expand...

Wait I'm confused, have you been accepted this cycle and are just shadowing out of love for he field? Your posting history makes it appear as though you haven't even started the application process and yet you appear entitled enough to make a statement this bold. Maybe that's air of entitlement/pretentiousness was what was earning you that "look" from the anesthesiologist.
 
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Does OP really think a BS in biology is an accomplishment worth flouting?
 
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sb247 said:
Does OP really think a BS in biology is an accomplishment worth flouting?
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The other day people were flouting about their psychology degree in the page Humans of New York, so I would not be surprised by this.
 
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WingedOx said:
Be prepared, your entire M3 year will be about kissing the ass of people who who act like said anesthesiologist. Have fun.
Click to expand...

Or not. Agree that asskissing will get you farther. But from personal experience, I never kissed a single hospital or clinic ass in medical school. Never got any honors either, but so it goes. Match is match.
 
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