2007 Match Lists

[DoctaJay]

I'm surprised so many went into OB/GYN. Alot of other match lists indicate that folks are fleeing from that speciality.

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[Mortal_Lessons]

Damn. P & S is freakin' stacked in neurosurgery. Why does the school have such a strong placement in ns?

 

[dutchman]

Is it safe to say that the schools that have not published their matchlists at this point are trying to hide something?

 

[cubbbie]

Damn. P & S is freakin' stacked in neurosurgery. Why does the school have such a strong placement in ns?

I would guess that a good portion of the people who matched in neurosurgery had an idea that that is what they wanted to do from the beginning and perhaps chose Columbia for that reason. Columbia is forever known for their neurosurgery program.

 

[Guile]

Damn. P & S is freakin' stacked in neurosurgery. Why does the school have such a strong placement in ns?

Columbia is known for placing students in surgery and surgical subspecialties.

Their nickname is Columbia College of Surgeons and Surgeons.

 

[riceman04]

Penn's match list was quite crazy this year...just saw it last Thursday and will post it if I can get a copy this Thursday.

...unless someone has already posted it.

 

[Mortal_Lessons]

I would guess that a good portion of the people who matched in neurosurgery had an idea that that is what they wanted to do from the beginning and perhaps chose Columbia for that reason. Columbia is forever known for their neurosurgery program.

I want to agree with you, but I'm still puzzled by this: If you look at Columbia's match list, all their ns matches were outside the institution. What you are saying would make sense if 4th year students matched INTO their home institution rather than OUT of P&S. That way, entering medical students that know beforehand that they are intersted in ns would go to Columbia because of "in-breeding." But that doesn't seem to be the case. Columbia's ns program is very prestigious, but I don't see how this translates into sending so many medical students OUT of the institution for ns. I could definitely see it drawing many top applicants into the school if they were going to stay at the school or for residency.

During your 4 years of med school you aren't being trained as a specialist. How does the strength of your home institution's specialty program affect how well you do outside your home institution in that specialty, especially if you're a med student (not a resident)?

 

[Guile]

I want to agree with you, but I'm still puzzled by this: If you look at Columbia's match list, all their ns matches were outside the institution. What you are saying would make sense if 4th year students matched INTO their home institution rather than OUT of P&S. That way, entering medical students that know beforehand that they are intersted in ns would go to Columbia because of "in-breeding." But that doesn't seem to be the case. Columbia's ns program is very prestigious, but I don't see how this translates into sending so many medical students OUT of the institution for ns. I could definitely see it drawing many top applicants into the school if they were going to stay at the school or for residency.

During your 4 years of med school you aren't being trained as a specialist. How does the strength of your home institution's specialty program affect how well you do outside your home institution in that specialty, especially if you're a med student (not a resident)?

They didn't match at Columbia because (at least for two of them) they were too busy matching at the top NS program in the country--Barrow Neurological Institute.

You go to a med school with a strong program in something because it will help you match at strong programs elsewhere. The world of academic medicine is quite small, so everyone knows everyone else. Your PD at Columbia can make calls for you to help you match, plus even without a call, his letter means a lot--a lot more than a letter from XYZ medical school.

 

[cubbbie]

During your 4 years of med school you aren't being trained as a specialist. How does the strength of your home institution's specialty program affect how well you do outside your home institution in that specialty, especially if you're a med student (not a resident)?

People who are interested in a particular field will choose a school with the best opportunity to get recommendations, do research, and do rotations with the bigwigs in that field. Other factors will come in for the match; I don't think they would necessarily choose a med school with the hopes of matching at the same school.

I work at a university that is particularly strong in urology, and similarily, the med school produces more than a normal amount of urology matches. In that case, though, I would think it has more to do with those students finding particularly great mentors at their home institution.

 

[Mortal_Lessons]

They didn't match at Columbia because (at least for two of them) they were too busy matching at the top NS program in the country--Barrow Neurological Institute.

You go to a med school with a strong program in something because it will help you match at strong programs elsewhere. The world of academic medicine is quite small, so everyone knows everyone else. Your PD at Columbia can make calls for you to help you match, plus even without a call, his letter means a lot--a lot more than a letter from XYZ medical school.

Yes--Barrow is definitely one of the best! MGH, one of Harvard's teaching hospitals, is also considered to have one of the best ns programs, yet if you take a look at Harvard's Match List, there is little to zero matches in ns. How do you explain this? Also, I wonder if this logic applies to UCSF, which is also considered one to have one of the best programs for ns, or to JHU, another one with a superb ns program. All I mean to point out is that Columbia is disproportionately represented in ns even among its peers (Harvard, JHU, UCSF) with "top-notch" ns programs.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Is it safe to say that the schools that have not published their matchlists at this point are trying to hide something?

No -- it's just safe to say that no one at that school is reading this thread. Lots of schools don't release their match list online. It seems like most of the lists posted here are from students who got it from their admin.

 

[Lorienne7]

I want to agree with you, but I'm still puzzled by this: If you look at Columbia's match list, all their ns matches were outside the institution. What you are saying would make sense if 4th year students matched INTO their home institution rather than OUT of P&S. That way, entering medical students that know beforehand that they are intersted in ns would go to Columbia because of "in-breeding." But that doesn't seem to be the case. Columbia's ns program is very prestigious, but I don't see how this translates into sending so many medical students OUT of the institution for ns. I could definitely see it drawing many top applicants into the school if they were going to stay at the school or for residency.

During your 4 years of med school you aren't being trained as a specialist. How does the strength of your home institution's specialty program affect how well you do outside your home institution in that specialty, especially if you're a med student (not a resident)?

Because neurosurgery is so competitive, a LOT of people who are interested in it take a year off to do research. As a Columbia med student interested in neurosurgery, you probably have access to more resources in the neurosurgery department than folks at most other med schools, the most important resource being the opportunity to do really advanced neuro research with some of the best neurosurgeons in the country. Doing cutting-edge research with a big name PI would make your application very competitive pretty much anywhere you want to go whether it's BNI or Columbia itself.

 

[Guile]

yet if you take a look at Harvard's Match List, there is little to zero matches in ns. How do you explain this?

Simply that no one at Harvard wanted to do NS this year.

 

[Mortal_Lessons]

People who are interested in a particular field will choose a school with the best opportunity to get recommendations, do research, and do rotations with the bigwigs in that field. Other factors will come in for the match; I don't think they would necessarily choose a med school with the hopes of matching at the same school.

I work at a university that is particularly strong in urology, and similarily, the med school produces more than a normal amount of urology matches. In that case, though, I would think it has more to do with those students finding particularly great mentors at their home institution.

That makes sense. It just seems like there are other schools with great xyz programs that don't necessarily match very heavily in xyz. For some reason, in addition to the fact that it has a great ns program, Columbia has this self-perpetuating image where med school applicants who want to become neurosurgeons choose Columbia to match into ns. And then they actually do match into ns, keeping the image alive and well.

 

[Medikit]

Wake Forest University?!?!?!?!?

Haven't heard anything about the list, try calling them.

 

[cubbbie]

Columbia has this self-perpetuating mechanism where med school applicants who want to become neurosurgeons choose Columbia to match into ns. And then they actually do match into ns, keeping the mechanism alive and well.

I actually liked mechanism better, so I switched it back.

Yeah, I have no knowledge about how P&S's ns program actually compares to other institutions, but I think the above statement is right on.

 

[Mortal_Lessons]

By the way, I'm interested in ns but wasn't accepted to Columbia, so I won't be there to help perpetuate the image. But I'm sure there are plenty of other '11s who will do just that. In my case, I'll be helping whatever school I'm at later this year expand its ns image. Thanks for your replies.

 

[cubbbie]

By the way, I'm interested in ns but wasn't accepted to Columbia, so I won't be there to help perpetuate the image. But I'm sure there are plenty of other '11s who will do just that. In my case, I'll be helping whatever school I'm at later this year expand its ns image. Thanks for your replies.

On the flip side, I may end up at Columbia but I'm not interested in ns, so I guess you could say I'm helping the cause to diminish Columbia's and augment your school's ns image.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

I actually liked mechanism better, so I switched it back.

Yeah, I have no knowledge about how P&S's ns program actually compares to other institutions, but I think the above statement is right on.

do you honestly think that its all smoke and mirrors? just a self-perpetuating system? Do you honestly think going to Columbia doesnt truly give you an edge for neurosurgery matching?

thats very naiive.

Columbia is the cutting-edge for neuro research. Ask any MSTP applicant interested in research. Students that hope to pursue neuro should go to Columbia b/c of the research oppurtunities and the ability to acquire recommendations from the top members of the field. This would definitely help in matching ridiculously well!

Note that I did not say that you cannot match well into neurosurgery if you don't go to Columbia. I'm just saying that there is substance to what some would call simply coincidental.

What I do wonder is how many of these ridiculous NS matches are MSTP students that concentrated in neuro research...

 

[cubbbie]

do you honestly think that its all smoke and mirrors? just a self-perpetuating system? Do you honestly think going to Columbia doesnt truly give you an edge for neurosurgery matching?

thats very naiive.

Columbia is the cutting-edge for neuro research. Ask any MSTP applicant interested in research. Students that hope to pursue neuro should go to Columbia b/c of the research oppurtunities and the ability to acquire recommendations from the top members of the field.

Note that I did not say that you cannot match well into neurosurgery if you don't go to Columbia. I'm just saying that there is substance to what some would hope would be simply coincidental.

no no no. you need to read all the posts ... and stop saying i'm naive. the guy was talking about TOP ns programs, and why P&S seems to do the best among the TOP programs. and you would be naive to think that perception doesn't play a role in relative rankings among similar caliber programs.

 

[Mortal_Lessons]

do you honestly think that its all smoke and mirrors? just a self-perpetuating system? Do you honestly think going to Columbia doesnt truly give you an edge for neurosurgery matching?

thats very naiive.

Columbia is the cutting-edge for neuro research. Ask any MSTP applicant interested in research. Students that hope to pursue neuro should go to Columbia b/c of the research oppurtunities and the ability to acquire recommendations from the top members of the field. This would definitely help in matching ridiculously well!

Note that I did not say that you cannot match well into neurosurgery if you don't go to Columbia. I'm just saying that there is substance to what some would hope would be simply coincidental.

Obviously, neither cubbbie nor I believe it's all smoke and mirrors. Please read some of the above discussion before making this judgement. Other schools, too, have great ns programs, yet have "off" years where little to zero of their students match into ns. This is where the self-perpetuating image comes in. Students go to Columbia with the intention of becoming neurosurgeons at a disproportional volume than other peer schools with "top-notch" ns programs.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

no no no. you need to read all the posts ... and stop saying i'm naive. the guy was talking about TOP ns programs, and why P&S seems to do the best among the TOP programs. and you would be naive to think that perception doesn't play a role in relative rankings among similar caliber programs.

oh sorry now i feel like an idiot. didnt feel like reading through it all, ah

and just read a few of the last posts out of context

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Obviously, neither Cubbie nor I believe it's all smoke and mirrors. Please read some of the above discussion before making this judgement. Other schools, too, have great ns programs, yet have "off" years where little to zero of their students match into ns. This is where the self-perpetuating image comes in. Students go to Columbia with the intention of becoming neurosurgeons at a disproportional volume than other peer schools with "top-notch" ns programs.

I have a feeling that many MSTP students at Columbia are interested in neuro, and likely go into the field...

 

[Mortal_Lessons]

I have a feeling that many MSTP students at Columbia are interested in neuro, and likely go into the field...

That'a solid suggestion. I'd be interested to know how many of their ns matches were MSTP. It seems like more and more these days it takes a solid foundation in research (nowadays a PhD) to match into a top ns program. Anyways, I'm off to to do some more homework. Good night. And thanks cubbbie for helping me figure this out and potentially helping me augment my future school's ns image!

 

[Dr. Dodger Dog]

Is it safe to say that the schools that have not published their matchlists at this point are trying to hide something?

Many schools do not make their match lists public because they want to protect the privacy of their students.

 

[Critical Mass]

Many schools do not make their match lists public because they want to protect the privacy of their students.

Thank you for pointing this out!

There is probably somebody in Washington wondering why the flip some a-hole on SDN in Florida is posting her name on the Internet. Definitely agree with Bagel as well.

Show some respect. If you link to a school site, then it's pretty much on the school; but SDN policy is to not modify posts, so cut it out with the names. Students can't decline to release their match result to their schools AFAIK.

I happen to feel that it is not your right to know where a particular student matched. I'm fine with statistics and all, but there is something jacked about listing actual names.

 

[falcine]

Yes--Barrow is definitely one of the best! MGH, one of Harvard's teaching hospitals, is also considered to have one of the best ns programs, yet if you take a look at Harvard's Match List, there is little to zero matches in ns. How do you explain this? Also, I wonder if this logic applies to UCSF, which is also considered one to have one of the best programs for ns, or to JHU, another one with a superb ns program. All I mean to point out is that Columbia is disproportionately represented in ns even among its peers (Harvard, JHU, UCSF) with "top-notch" ns programs.

I'm a med student at Columbia interested in neurosurgery so I'll try to clarify as well as make some general statements.

It is true that Columbia tends to send several students (i.e. more than the norm) into neurosurgery every year. In fact, that was a main attraction for me too to come here as a medical student. A big reason for it is the support from the department. Dr. Quest is a well known neurosurgeon and advisor for medical students here. Also, several of the P&S grads are residents and attendings in the department, which makes for great resources and role models.

I don't know if the department is particularly partial to Columbia students, but there are several P&S grads in the program here. Nonetheless, there are only 3 positions, so people have to (or choose to) go elsewhere sometimes. This year to my knowledge, none of the students were MSTP but almost all of them completed an extra year of dedicated research DURING medical school.

Of course I'm biased but my sense is, while not impossible otherwise, it generally helps to go to a top tier medical school to be accepted into TOP neurosurgery programs (e.g. Barrow, UCSF, Mayo Clinic, MGH, Columbia, Hopkins, etc.) because our faculty are very helpful in gearing us in the right direction. There are also more opportunities for research and so forth. Regardless, all the students that match to these programs are stellar as far as grades, scores, etc..so everything counts.

So bottom line: Dr. Quest and others in the department are very proactive in guiding med students here who have the right credentials and want to pursue neurosurgery.

 

[nosugrefneb]

Falcine, do you think part of it is also that you have a neurosurgery rotation during third year too? Yours is the only school I've heard of that does that, although I wouldn't be surprised if there were others. Nonetheless, it's hard to get interested in something when you have zero exposure to it, which is often the case with things like NS, urology, radonc, etc. at many schools unless you use up a bunch of time to do electives in them.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

I'm surprised so many went into OB/GYN. Alot of other match lists indicate that folks are fleeing from that speciality.

Which ones?

There were only 6 open OB/GYN spots this year after the regular match...

 

[Dooooom]

Anyone have GW's Match List?!?!?!?!?!

 

[jaydoc07]

Anesthesia
Univ. of Kansas (7)
Univ. of Kansas Wichita (2)
Rush Univ.
Michigan
Nebraska
Case Western (2)
Loyola
Northwestern

Dermatology
Missouri-Columbia

Emergency Medicine
Ohio State
Christiana Care, Newark
Methodist Hosp. Sacramento
Wright State
Oregon H&S
George Washington
UMKC (2)

Family Medicine
Univ. of Kansas KC (3)
Univ. of Kansas Wichita (8)
UMKC (2)
Research Med. Center, KC (5)
Salina, KS (4)
Univ. of Minnesota
Arizona
Ohio State

Internal Medicine
Vanderbilt
Wake Forest (2)
Univ. of Kansas (9)
Stanford
Ohio State
Loyola
UIC
Brown
Colorado
St. Joe Hosp. Denver
Brooke Army
Barnes-Jewish
Iowa (2)
Mayo (3)
Lahey Clinic
South Carolina (2)
Rush

Medicine Prelim
Oklahoma
Case Western
Univ. of Kansas (2)

Med-Peds
Baylor
UMKC
Cincinnati
Minnesota

Neurology
Northwestern
Michigan
Colorado
Iowa
Mayo

OB/GYN
Univ. of Kansas KC(4)
Univ. of Kansas Wichita
Methodist, Dallas
Reading
UMKC (2)
Texas A&M-SW
North Carolina
Texas Tech

Pediatrics
Univ. of Kansas KC (3)
Yale
Northwestern
Stanford
Children’s Mercy KC (3)
Nevada
Children’s LA
Univ. of Kansas Wichita (3)
Oregon H&S
Michigan
Florida
Wake Forest
Creighton

Psychiatry
Penn
Univ. of Kansas

PM&R
Mayo

Radiology
Univ. of Kansas (2)
Texax A&M-SW
Nebraska
UT Houston
Wisconsin-Madison
UMKC
Mayo
Oregon H&S

ENT
Univ. of Kansas
Oregon H&S

General Surgery
Mayo
Oregon H&S
Univ. of Kansas Wichita (2)
Univ. of Kansas KC
Central Iowa

Neurosurgery
Nebraska
Kentucky
Utah

Orthopedics
Vanderbilt
KU Wichita
UIC
Univ. of Kansas KC (2)

Plastic Surgery
Stanford

Surgery Prelim
Howard
KU Wichita
Berkshire Mass.

Transitional
Navy

 

[45408]

Is it safe to say that the schools that have not published their matchlists at this point are trying to hide something?

Nope. My school's match list looks quite nice to me, but the PDF that they sent to all the students says something like "for your personal use only," so I'm not posting it here. If the school posts a version available to the public, I'll have it on here right away.

EDIT - to elaborate, our match list says this at the bottom: "Student record information is protected by the Federal Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA). No information regarding an individual student, other than that defined as directory information, may be communicated to a third party without the express written consent of the student." So, please, people, don't post names on match lists. If it's linked on the school's website, then it's fair game.

 

[HumbleMD]

Nope. My school's match list looks quite nice to me, but the PDF that they sent to all the students says something like "for your personal use only," so I'm not posting it here. If the school posts a version available to the public, I'll have it on here right away.

EDIT - to elaborate, our match list says this at the bottom: "Student record information is protected by the Federal Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA). No information regarding an individual student, other than that defined as directory information, may be communicated to a third party without the express written consent of the student." So, please, people, don't post names on match lists. If it's linked on the school's website, then it's fair game.

So true. I think its good advice to avoid posting anyone's name on SDN in general. Most poeple (myeself included) enjoy anonymity.

 

[The Doctor]

University of North Carolina (UNC) at Chapel-Hill

Match Lists for the past seven years:

http://www.med.unc.edu/sa/residencymatch/residencyplacements.htm

 

[Knowitall99]

Has anybody posted NYU's list yet? If it's for student use only, could somebody maybe post an anonymous breakdown by specialty like the other programs have?

 

[boom]

does anyone have the Case Western List?

 

[cubbbie]

does anyone have the Case Western List?

They gave it to us at 2nd look. Anybody know if there's an electronic copy? (Maybe on iApply?) If not, I guess I could type it out ...

 

[jjmack]

Falcine, do you think part of it is also that you have a neurosurgery rotation during third year too? Yours is the only school I've heard of that does that, although I wouldn't be surprised if there were others. Nonetheless, it's hard to get interested in something when you have zero exposure to it, which is often the case with things like NS, urology, radonc, etc. at many schools unless you use up a bunch of time to do electives in them.

at vandy you can do ns if you want during surgery clerkship. is it required at columbia?

 

[nosugrefneb]

at vandy you can do ns if you want during surgery clerkship. is it required at columbia?

Sure, you can probably elect do a rotation on the NS service during surgery at most schools, but the impression I got was that NS is a scheduled rotation for everyone at Columbia during third year. Maybe I'm wrong...I don't go there. Falcine?

 

[Dooooom]

Anyone have GW's Match List? Or know if They release one?

 

[Doctor&Geek]

That'a solid suggestion. I'd be interested to know how many of their ns matches were MSTP. It seems like more and more these days it takes a solid foundation in research (nowadays a PhD) to match into a top ns program.

http://mdphd.columbia.edu/alumni/06-05.html

Keep clicking on the right. Last 4 years, no Columbia MSTP to NS.

 

[farikanok]

does anyone have the stanford match list?

 

[desidr]

http://mdphd.columbia.edu/alumni/06-05.html

Keep clicking on the right. Last 4 years, no Columbia MSTP to NS.

2006: [un-named]
Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins University

 

[medpro]

I just saw it but it was marked read-only so I can't post it. There were 103 matches out of 105, including matches at Duke (x2), Stanford, Baylor, Vandy, Emory (x2), Mayo, U Mich (x2), U Penn (x3), San Francisco, U Wash (x2), USCD, Cornell, U Pitt, U Va (x6), UCLA, U Wisc (x2) and Wake (19).

 

[Mortal_Lessons]

http://mdphd.columbia.edu/alumni/06-05.html

Keep clicking on the right. Last 4 years, no Columbia MSTP to NS.

Thanks for the information, Doctor&Geek. Appreciate it. While there were no MSTP to NS in the last 4 years, Falcine, a current Columbia student, mentioned that many of last year's NS matches had stayed an extra year to do research. Thanks again.

 

[Doctor&Geek]

Heh, see above for my mistake.

I've been told that for top level programs in ANY specialty clearly want research, but of course the question for me is that are folks seeing research as a means to an end only? And are the folks in charge aware of this too?

 

[ghip]

Thanks for the information, Doctor&Geek. Appreciate it. While there were no MSTP to NS in the last 4 years, Falcine, a current Columbia student, mentioned that many of last year's NS matches had stayed an extra year to do research. Thanks again.

This is nrmp data, so no neurosurgery, but notice that ~90% of applicants to derm, plastics and radonc have published research. The proportion of matched students with pubs is even higher. It would be silly to apply to NS without some research. I'm sure even Barrow, which is not an academic program, wants to see your name in print somewhere. You don't have to go MSTP to get a publication, but you're lucky if you get one during a 3 mo. elective.

http://www.nrmp.org/matchoutcomes.pdf

 

[bobbybee22]

why arent more people posting their school's match list?

 

[45408]

why arent more people posting their school's match list?

why aren't more people like you just going out and searching for them on the school's website? not every school makes a big priority out of spreading their match lists to the world.

 

[Dr Chooch]

Does anyone have Indiana's match list?