2012 NRMP Data

[pathstudent]

The 2012 data is out and after a brief rise in interest by US med students in the mid 00s it seems pathology is declining.

In 2012 there were 521 patholgy spots and only 262 (50.3) were filled by US med students. The only specialty with less interest is family medicine which filled 48% with US med students but it is worth noting that there are 2750 family med spots, so I suppose one could say Fam Med is way more attractive to US students than pathology. In 2005 there were 325 US path matchers. In 2010 65.0% of spots filled with US students but there were only 503 spots.

Looking at the data from 2004 to 2012 it does seem like there has been about 15-20% decrease in US path applicants.

One thing I find striking is that one pathologist is produced for every 5 family practice docs. Isn't that grossly irresponsible in this day and age when there is a dearth of primary care physicians?

Lastly this is the list of specialties that fill with more than 90% US students. They are all smaller fields like pathology:
Radiation Oncology (pgy1 and pgy2)
Vascular SUrgery
Plastic Surgery
Orthopedic Surgery
Dermatology
ENT
Thoracic Surgery.

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[gbwillner]

This is probably a result of a self-fulfilling prophecy:

1. come to this board, biatch about the terrible job market and that no US grads want to go into Path

2. Senior med students read biatch posts, decide path sucks and want to avoid it

3. Students tell their friends path sucks and they should avoid it

4. US students don't apply to path, relative number of US grads applying drops

5. Continue ad nauseum

6. Profit?

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

Perhaps students are doing their research. We have med students hang with us after their first year of school and I am brutally honest with them about the field.

How could anyone look at the current mess in the lab industry and wanna go into it? The business is getting more and more consolidated each year so less options for work.
ZERO job security compared to other specialities.
No recruitment is needed since there are 50 applicants for each job.
Pathologists doing 3 times the work they used to do so less positions.
Many high volume screening tests under attack for various reasons.
In-office labs proliferating.
Not to mention disruptive technology on the horizon to reduce demand even more.
I feel like writing all the problems with pathology and putting them in Billy Joel's "We didnt start the fire." You could easily make a 3 or 4 minute song.

 

[KeratinPearls]

Perhaps students are doing their research. We have med students hang with us after their first year of school and I am brutally honest with them about the field.

How could anyone look at the current mess in the lab industry and wanna go into it? The business is getting more and more consolidated each year so less options for work.
ZERO job security compared to other specialities.
No recruitment is needed since there are 50 applicants for each job.
Pathologists doing 3 times the work they used to do so less positions.
Many high volume screening tests under attack for various reasons.
In-office labs proliferating.
Not to mention disruptive technology on the horizon to reduce demand even more.
I feel like writing all the problems with pathology and putting them in Billy Joel's "We didnt start the fire." You could easily make a 3 or 4 minute song.

How do large reference labs survive with the proliferation of in office labs? Does anyone know how they are doing?

 

[yaah]

Shoot man, it's only natural that more people go into family med than pathology. That's primary care. Pathology is a niche field. Like rad onc. Med schools are decreasing their 2nd year exposure to pathology, more are using virtual slides instead of real lab experience. People who want to do path have to seek it out, essentially.

In terms of this comment:

How could anyone look at the current mess in the lab industry and wanna go into it? The business is getting more and more consolidated each year so less options for work.
ZERO job security compared to other specialities.
No recruitment is needed since there are 50 applicants for each job.
Pathologists doing 3 times the work they used to do so less positions.
Many high volume screening tests under attack for various reasons.
In-office labs proliferating.
Not to mention disruptive technology on the horizon to reduce demand even more.
I feel like writing all the problems with pathology and putting them in Billy Joel's "We didnt start the fire." You could easily make a 3 or 4 minute song.

Try listing all the problems with medicine as a career. You can't just criticize path and ignore the general trends. Reimbursement is falling, people are trying to do more with less time, etc. Private practice partnership is starting to disappear in favor of hospital employment or multispecialty group employment. The "reference lab" of the clinical field is the multispecialty hospital group.

At least we are not lawyers with an essentially 50% unemployment rate on graduation!

 

[Arctic Char]

Shoot man, it's only natural that more people go into family med than pathology. That's primary care. Pathology is a niche field. Like rad onc. Med schools are decreasing their 2nd year exposure to pathology, more are using virtual slides instead of real lab experience. People who want to do path have to seek it out, essentially.

In terms of this comment:


Try listing all the problems with medicine as a career. You can't just criticize path and ignore the general trends. Reimbursement is falling, people are trying to do more with less time, etc. Private practice partnership is starting to disappear in favor of hospital employment or multispecialty group employment. The "reference lab" of the clinical field is the multispecialty hospital group.

At least we are not lawyers with an essentially 50% unemployment rate on graduation!

true, and a good point. at least the law schools are starting to realize the trend and cutting back on supply.

 

[Pathwrath]

This is probably a result of a self-fulfilling prophecy:

1. come to this board, biatch about the terrible job market and that no US grads want to go into Path

2. Senior med students read biatch posts, decide path sucks and want to avoid it

3. Students tell their friends path sucks and they should avoid it

4. US students don't apply to path, relative number of US grads applying drops

5. Continue ad nauseum

6. Profit?

As much as I would like to believe otherwise, I don't think this board is that influential.

 

[Substance]

Even in Canada, pathology on the whole is the least popular specialty.

The lack of interest in it stems from multiple factors: students don't like undergrad labs and think pathology is a lot like that; pathology isn't given a lot of respect in med school curricula or in hospitals; microscopes are a pain in the ass to look through; the technology is pathology is antique; there's not a lot of perceived independence; autopsies are gross; the field is FMG heavy; there's a stigma that unlikeable people who have no social skills go into it; the pay is less than other fields (that was until recently here); its not competitive.

Notice how I didn't say lack of patient contact was a factor? Radiology has little to no patient contact and yet still manages to be quite popular. Nor did I say med school exposure: rad onc gets even less exposure and might be the most competitive specialty in the US.

The pros of pathology - good hours/pay ratio, few to no nights, relatively light call, and a relatively good malpractice environment don't seem to be enough to draw people into it.

 

[pathstudent]

Shoot man, it's only natural that more people go into family med than pathology. That's primary care. Pathology is a niche field. Like rad onc. Med schools are decreasing their 2nd year exposure to pathology, more are using virtual slides instead of real lab experience. People who want to do path have to seek it out, essentially.

Well yeah yaah my point was that just because fam med was the only specialty with a lower us match percentage than path doesn't mean fam med is less popular than path.

I have finally decided that path slots need to be cut so that they fill with 80% amgs or more. Yes path is a niche field like rad onc but why does rad onc fill over 90% with us med students?

And this forum has no affect on path lack of appeal. Path darkest years were around 1998 and this forum didn't exist.

I think path is in for bleak times with the coming bundled payments. We will be competing for income with elite docs in ortho, rad onc, derm, radiology, et ... They will have a hard time respecting us seeing that path only fills 50% with us students while they fill near 100%.