2014 APPIC internship Application Thread

[AcronymAllergy]

Silly question that has probably been covered before, but I couldn't find anything!

When an internship site says that it requires a minimum number of hours and phrases it like so: "minimum of XXX intervention and assessment hours," do people interpret that as meaning "XXX intervention hours" AND "XXX assessment hours," or cumulatively at least XXX hours in total.

So for example, if this internship site requires a "minimum of 12 million intervention and assessment hours," do I actually need 24 million total, equally split between the two?

(Obviously this question is only applicable for sites that don't include the minimums on the APPIC info page but have another page somewhere on the internet that provides more info. And clearly I could email the site, but I don't want to sound like an idiot if I am totally alone in my finding the phrasing ambiguous.)

I'd always taken it to mean that it's XXX number of intervention and assessment hours combined (so 12 million total for your example).

As for the cost, I was surprised to hear that it'd gone up, although to APPIC's credit, I believe they said it was an issue with the vendor having raised its costs rather than something they'd wanted to do themselves.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Always at home]

Silly question that has probably been covered before, but I couldn't find anything!

When an internship site says that it requires a minimum number of hours and phrases it like so: "minimum of XXX intervention and assessment hours," do people interpret that as meaning "XXX intervention hours" AND "XXX assessment hours," or cumulatively at least XXX hours in total.

So for example, if this internship site requires a "minimum of 12 million intervention and assessment hours," do I actually need 24 million total, equally split between the two?

(Obviously this question is only applicable for sites that don't include the minimums on the APPIC info page but have another page somewhere on the internet that provides more info. And clearly I could email the site, but I don't want to sound like an idiot if I am totally alone in my finding the phrasing ambiguous.)

I would interpret that as 12 million hours, not 24 million hours. If they wanted 24 million hours split between intervention and assessment, I am assuming (well, I hope) they would be that specific.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Does anyone have a sense of if and how much weight research-focused sites give to manuscripts that are under review?

 

[Ollie123]

Some weight?

That's a tough question to answer. Someone with zero publications is not going to become competitive based on what they have under review. My impression is that in general, the people competitive for these sites are usually well past the point where a few things under review would make or break their CV. They already have 5-20 publications in good (or great) journals. Its like having poster presentations - they show some degree of research involvement for someone who has little, but if someone has a dozen publications and several major grants, no one is really going to care about their posters.

That said, that's just my impression as someone applying this year though, so take it for what its worth. Its also important to consider the range of "research-y-ness" we're talking about. Brown/Western/MUSC/etc. is not the same as a mid-range VA that values research but doesn't expect the same level of productivity.

I'm going to try to have at least 1-2 things under review when I apply just to show I'm continuously writing/submitting but I'd honestly be shocked if it made a difference (and question what's wrong with the folks reviewing my app if they did care that much). I guess another thing that might be nice is if you are publishing something VERY in line with the work of a particular research preceptor that doesn't show in your publication history. That's sort of the reason I like seeing under review/in progress stuff on people's CV in the first place - it gives a sense of what the person is currently working on (though I know some here disagree with whether it is good to include).

 

[DoctorRiver]

Hello! I am planning on applying to only VA Medical Centers that have strong trauma-focused opportunities (e.g., Cincinnati, Baltimore, Boston, Durham). I'm in a PsyD program and have a lot of research experience, but limited publications *for now*. What are some thoughts about this imbalance? Additionally, any thoughts on how to truly make it through this process? My essays are written and the cover letters have begun now that the sites are updating. Good luck to all, we can do it!

 

[erg923]

Hello! I am planning on applying to only VA Medical Centers that have strong trauma-focused opportunities (e.g., Cincinnati, Baltimore, Boston, Durham). I'm in a PsyD program and have a lot of research experience, but limited publications *for now*. What are some thoughts about this imbalance? Additionally, any thoughts on how to truly make it through this process? My essays are written and the cover letters have begun now that the sites are updating. Good luck to all, we can do it!

I think all VAs have strong focus in trauma.

The internship imbalance has been discussed extensively in multiple threads on this board. Just do a search. I do not think there are any "secrets." You have to be a strong applicant, good at interviewing and selling yourself and how your experiences, training, and future goals match the sites training needs/model. After that, its just statistics at work.

 

[NotTheHoff]

Is it a good or bad idea to include unfunded grants on your CV if applying for research-oriented internships?

I personally don't see an issue with including it. Most grant proposals don't get funded, and funding decisions are made on a variety of issues, so it doesn't reflect poorly on the work. At the same time, this can give you an opportunity to highlight your experience in conceptualizing your research and considering the practical materials necessary to get it running.

It most likely won't impact things greatly either way, even for a research heavy internship. If there are potential opportunities to keep a project running after you complete internship, though, it could help to highlight any experience that would make that appear viable.

 

[Call Me Watson]

Quick Question: I can't seem to find where the four essays are listed on the APPIC site. Could anyone help direct me?

Thank you!

 

[erg923]

From my recollection, they are not on the website, they are part of (and listed on) the web-based APPI application. You have to log into that.

 

[psychrat]

How are everyone’s applications coming along? So far I finalized my list of sites and cleaned up my CV. Now I am reading some sample essays to get the juices flowing. I need to stop procrastinating these essays and start to write. I think I am being avoidant since they are so short yet so important.

 

[cara susanna]

Pretty good. I have first drafts of my cover letters done (currently being looked at by someone) and am currently on the 3rd or so draft of my essays.

 

[Ollie123]

Wowza you guys are far along. I've been busy prepping for some training I just finished and getting my dissertation up and running - haven't touched it since mid-July. Trying to get a couple papers out the door too.

I have a semi-final list of sites (pending a few updating their materials so I can make sure they didn't eliminate the things I'm interested in) and that's about it. Still probably a few too many - I'm struggling to get it down to 15. Want to include a few less competitive VAs but don't want to give up any of my super-research-heavy places to do so.

I'm feeling pretty comfy with the clinical orientation essay since I think I have a fairly unique idea for it that should stand out. The research statement I've basically got already from putting together myriad grant applications. The other two seem way too BS-y to me so I'm waiting for a moment of inspiration/procrastinating (I prefer to think of it as the former ). My CV and hours are mostly up to date (again, thank you grant apps) though I have a revision of an article under review at Abnormal I'm reeeaallly hoping I can get in press before applications are due since I think that would be a nice application booster. As long as it doesn't go back out to reviewers a third time I think its doable.

The application process doesn't seem too bad (at least relative to grants) - I just hate how much time its taking away from other activities that will matter much more in the long-term.

 

[cara susanna]

I got it down to 18 sites and I'm comfortable with that number. I was able to eliminate a few when I was reading the website and realized that the fit wasn't really that great.

 

[Ollie123]

Yeah...my struggle is just that pretty much every VA has addiction and health psych stuff and truthfully any of them would be better than not matching. Still have a bunch (16-17) of super-competitive ones all of which would be great and then a list of 20 others that would be fine and I'd like to get some of them in there just so I have a few places that aren't of Yale/Brown/etc. caliber. I might start knocking some out based on location/cost-of-living (e.g. UCSF) just given I have other options that seem equally as good but won't be as crippling financially - if it was like post-doc and I got to pick offers I'd definitely apply there but not sure I'm willing to roll the dice on a match. I think I may just need to hedge my bets and hope I get into one of my top choice AMCs since those are certainly the best fit. Its just hard to know what to expect since there seems to be so much randomness in the process.

 

[Avocadobunny]

Hi everyone! I am so glad this thread is up again to help us through this hellish process. Unfortunately This will be my second year applying I know this question has been asked in previous threads but I can't seem to find the answer! I am curious what everyone thinks as to how to go about applying to a site that you applied to last year. For the sites I got interviews at and obviously did not match with I have no reservations about explicitly stating in my cover letter why I am still a good fit and what I have done in the last year to become a more competitive applicant. My question is what to do about sites that I did not receive an interview at? A few very important variables have changed that have made me a much better fit with these sites and I am hopeful to receive an interview this time around, however, I am unsure whether to mention if I applied last year or not. If I mention I applied last year but didn't receive an interview and did not match might these sites not want to extend an interview this time around? Or, if it do not mention I applied then I cannot highlight the specific things that make me a better match and if for some reason they remember I applied might they wonder why I didn't mention it? This is probably splitting hairs but I would really appreciate any input as I am more anxious this time around (if thats even possible) and cannot not match again! Thanks so much!

 

[Dream Chaser]

Hi everyone! I am so glad this thread is up again to help us through this hellish process. Unfortunately This will be my second year applying I know this question has been asked in previous threads but I can't seem to find the answer! I am curious what everyone thinks as to how to go about applying to a site that you applied to last year. For the sites I got interviews at and obviously did not match with I have no reservations about explicitly stating in my cover letter why I am still a good fit and what I have done in the last year to become a more competitive applicant. My question is what to do about sites that I did not receive an interview at? A few very important variables have changed that have made me a much better fit with these sites and I am hopeful to receive an interview this time around, however, I am unsure whether to mention if I applied last year or not. If I mention I applied last year but didn't receive an interview and did not match might these sites not want to extend an interview this time around? Or, if it do not mention I applied then I cannot highlight the specific things that make me a better match and if for some reason they remember I applied might they wonder why I didn't mention it? This is probably splitting hairs but I would really appreciate any input as I am more anxious this time around (if thats even possible) and cannot not match again! Thanks so much!

Greetings Avacadobunny. Last year was my second year applying and I also struggled with the idea of what to say in cover letters to site I would be applying to for a second time (some I received interviews with, while others I did not). I ended up revising my cover letters to them and finding a better way to demonstrate fit of the site with my prior experiences and career goals. I did not mention that I had applied to them the year prior. I ended up with interviews with sites that had rejected me the year before and was also invited back to interview with some of the sites I had interviewed at my first year (they remembered me and were happy that i had considered them again). I ended up matching at my number 1 site, which was also a site I interviewed at my first year and ranked number 1. Although going through this process a second year can be tough, it is important to stay positive and improve on what you can (interview skills, writing, etc.) good luck!

 

[docma]

Hi everyone! I am so glad this thread is up again to help us through this hellish process. Unfortunately This will be my second year applying I know this question has been asked in previous threads but I can't seem to find the answer! I am curious what everyone thinks as to how to go about applying to a site that you applied to last year. For the sites I got interviews at and obviously did not match with I have no reservations about explicitly stating in my cover letter why I am still a good fit and what I have done in the last year to become a more competitive applicant. My question is what to do about sites that I did not receive an interview at? A few very important variables have changed that have made me a much better fit with these sites and I am hopeful to receive an interview this time around, however, I am unsure whether to mention if I applied last year or not. If I mention I applied last year but didn't receive an interview and did not match might these sites not want to extend an interview this time around? Or, if it do not mention I applied then I cannot highlight the specific things that make me a better match and if for some reason they remember I applied might they wonder why I didn't mention it? This is probably splitting hairs but I would really appreciate any input as I am more anxious this time around (if thats even possible) and cannot not match again! Thanks so much!

If you believe a site is a good fit and you meet their target qualification, definitely apply again for all the reasons just stated by Dreamcatcher. Also, I think many TDs respond positively to the ability to state that you were disappointed not to (match, interview) but are so certain of your interest (if you are) that you are applying again and hopeful they will consider you again. Remember that TDs have to exclude many applicants they might like to meet, simply because they cannot interview more than a certain number. They may be pleased to see you in the crowd again and you can highlight what makes you an even stronger candidate this year. Things like dissertation progress, more experience with a specific population, etc., are often the tipping factor, so don't shy away from good sites where you missed last time. If you have to exclude some due to limitations on your own number of apps, get some advice from mentors about where is most likely to like your gumption in coming around again....or even email a TD and ask if a repeat application is welcome, given added experience, etc. To me, a repeat application suggests motivation and TDs want to spend time interviewing folks who really are motivated to match with them.

 

[pavlove]

Hi all - this is a (hopefully not super redundant) question about including non-sanctioned clinical hours on my APPI. So, I have approximately 100 assessment hours completed with patients at a CMHC as part of an ongoing research project. These hours were not "practicum sanctioned" per my department guidelines, as these assessment hours were supervised by a psychiatrist and a Counseling Psych PhD (as opposed to a Clinical Psych PhD).

Now, I have ~1200 hours of approved clinical hours without this experience (including a good amount of assessment hours), so I'm not necessarily worried about overall hours. However these additional assessment hours are with my population of interest (SMI) and I want this experience to be clear on my APPI. I intend to be clear that this experience occurred outside of my regular practicum, but I'm not sure where on the APPI I should include them... "non-practicum clinical experience?"

input from anyone who has been in a similar situation is appreciated. thanks!

 

[Ollie123]

I was always under the impression the hours couldn't be counted unless officially sanctioned by the university as a "practicum" but that you should include them on your CV rather than in the APPI itself.

 

[pavlove]

Yeah that is my understanding as well... I knew they would not "count" technically (and I have not included them in my tally thus far), but I guess I just always heard other students say "include them in the 'other' section of your APPI!" for hours that were outside of practicum, so I had assumed there was a structured/specific way to do this. My program is fairly strict (as it should be) with sanctioning clinical hours, so it's pretty normal for students to have "outside practicum" hours from research.

Including on the CV is probably the way to go. Thanks for your response

 

[docma]

Hi all - this is a (hopefully not super redundant) question about including non-sanctioned clinical hours on my APPI. So, I have approximately 100 assessment hours completed with patients at a CMHC as part of an ongoing research project. These hours were not "practicum sanctioned" per my department guidelines, as these assessment hours were supervised by a psychiatrist and a Counseling Psych PhD (as opposed to a Clinical Psych PhD).

Now, I have ~1200 hours of approved clinical hours without this experience (including a good amount of assessment hours), so I'm not necessarily worried about overall hours. However these additional assessment hours are with my population of interest (SMI) and I want this experience to be clear on my APPI. I intend to be clear that this experience occurred outside of my regular practicum, but I'm not sure where on the APPI I should include them... "non-practicum clinical experience?"

input from anyone who has been in a similar situation is appreciated. thanks!

Just put them in the "other" clinical experience section, as you would with any application-relevant clinical employment. There is no distinction between "counseling" psychologist and "clinical" psychologist that matters in terms of the qualifying supervision (both are licensed psychologists) and the work assessing the target population is something you don't want them to overlook.

 

[psychrat]

Question: I administered quite a number of self-report inventories (BDI’s, BAI’s, etc.) for my MA thesis. I know this does not count as hours, but could I count them under the number of BDI’s and BAI’s, etc. administered?

 

[CheetahGirl]

I was always under the impression the hours couldn't be counted unless officially sanctioned by the university as a "practicum" but that you should include them on your CV rather than in the APPI itself.

I agree.

Question: I administered quite a number of self-report inventories (BDI’s, BAI’s, etc.) for my MA thesis. I know this does not count as hours, but could I count them under the number of BDI’s and BAI’s, etc. administered?

It’s my impression that you cannot include any research assessments unless they are clinical administrations (i.e. for the benefit of patient care only and the research was an aside). If I'm wrong, someone please correct me. Seems like you can do the same as Pavlove and include them in your CV, but not APPIC application.

I've heard from several faculty members that you must err against 'stretching' the details of the application. It's ultimately your responsibility, but your DOT has to review and approve so hopefully she/he will catch any 'fluff' before an applicant gets 'innocently' caught misinforming sites in an interview (which is an automatic dismissal from the match w/o a refund).

Calculating hours is nerve-wracking, but also a good trip down memory lane.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

It’s my impression that you cannot include any research assessments unless they are clinical administrations (i.e. for the benefit of patient care only and the research was an aside). If I'm wrong, someone please correct me. Seems like you can do the same as Pavlove and include them in your CV, but not APPIC application.

If I'm remembering correctly, that's the way I'd always heard and approached it as well. I administered a good number of measures as a part of my masters thesis, but didn't count any of them in my tallies on the APPIC. I think there might've been an "other" section somewhere that I mentioned them, but that's about it.

Then again, in this particularly case, I don't know that adding on some brief self-report inventories such as the BDI and BAI is really going to help an application all that much, if at all (unless you don't have any otherwise). Thus, I wouldn't stress too much about not having them in there.

 

[docma]

Question: I administered quite a number of self-report inventories (BDI’s, BAI’s, etc.) for my MA thesis. I know this does not count as hours, but could I count them under the number of BDI’s and BAI’s, etc. administered?

You are right that you cannot count the hours. But since you have administered that number for research purposes the number could go into the appropriate column on the "count" list I suppose. I agree with another poster that it is not at all likely to be a "make or break" item. And you should go with what you ATD is comfortable with. Realistically TDs will be scanning for which of the tests relevant for their site you have some background in and BDI/BAI are not likely to matter a lot one way or the other as there is not a proficiency gradient with a measure like this--while there is with something like Rorshach or neuropsych measures.

 

[Always at home]

If I'm remembering correctly, that's the way I'd always heard and approached it as well. I administered a good number of measures as a part of my masters thesis, but didn't count any of them in my tallies on the APPIC. I think there might've been an "other" section somewhere that I mentioned them, but that's about it.

Then again, in this particularly case, I don't know that adding on some brief self-report inventories such as the BDI and BAI is really going to help an application all that much, if at all (unless you don't have any otherwise). Thus, I wouldn't stress too much about not having them in there.

Since you mentioned it, I just realized that I did not include measures that I used for my Masters thesis in my APPIC application. I still got matched. So, yeah, probably does not matter one way or another, especially if they are basic measures.

 

[psychrat]

Since you mentioned it, I just realized that I did not include measures that I used for my Masters thesis in my APPIC application. I still got matched. So, yeah, probably does not matter one way or another, especially if they are basic measures.

Thanks this is helpful. I will leave them out. I have a bunch of the smaller measures anyway, and feel that my more extensive/integrative assessments are the ones they will probably be interested in. I just wasn't sure,

 

[Always at home]

Thanks this is helpful. I will leave them out. I have a bunch of the smaller measures anyway, and feel that my more extensive/integrative assessments are the ones they will probably be interested in. I just wasn't sure,

Understandable

I probably could have added an additional 5-6 measures, which I administered (they were self-reports) to about 130 participants. But I just left them off. I do not think it would have made a difference in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I am hoping my internship site lets me be involved (as much as an intern can be involved) in the internship process while I am there. I would definitely like to see how the process pans out.

It was pretty interesting being "on the other side". I wish it was a requirement for all sites to involve their interns in the process.

Not everyone who's applying to a VA has done a VA prac. I haven't, and I'm applying to some VA sites.

If someone does not have VA experience then they should probably have experience w. significant/chronic psychopathology, substance abuse, and/or trauma. I did not have any prior VA experience and I was very competitive for VA sites because I had a strong background in the above (in addition to a lot of assessment/diagnostic hours).

 

[AcronymAllergy]

It was pretty interesting being "on the other side". I wish it was a requirement for all sites to involve their interns in the process.



If someone does not have VA experience then they should probably have experience w. significant/chronic psychopathology, substance abuse, and/or trauma. I did not have any prior VA experience and I was very competitive for VA sites because I had a strong background in the above (in addition to a lot of assessment/diagnostic hours).

Agreed with all of the above. We were slightly involved in the selection during internship, and have been "tapped" much more heavily for both internship and postdoc selection while on fellowship, and it's been an interesting experience.

As for VA experience, VAs do tend to like folks with prior experience, but as T4C mentioned, it's not a "kiss of death" if you have none...with a caveat: if there's no VA nearby at which to work, that's one thing; but if there's a VA available (particularly one where your program has an established externship) and you didn't work there, then yes, that'll look bad. My program didn't have a training relationship with the only VA within a few hours of us, so I'm imagining my experience in multiple other settings made up for that in helping me to land a VA internship, which in turn helped with the VA postdoc.

 

[Terapueta24]

"That's a tough question to answer. Someone with zero publications is not going to become competitive based on what they have under review. My impression is that in general, the people competitive for these sites are usually well past the point where a few things under review would make or break their CV. They already have 5-20 publications in good (or great) journals."

I wouldn't take yourself out of the running if you don't have 5-20 publications in good or great journals. I had 1 published book chapter and 5 papers under review and I was interviewed at MUSC and matched at a site that gives you a half day of dedicated research time. My application did show a strong interest in research - being an RA on NIH grants, etc, and pubs in great journals don't hurt. But I think you should still include papers under review.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I wouldn't take yourself out of the running if you don't have 5-20 publications in good or great journals. I had 1 published book chapter and 5 papers under review and I was interviewed at MUSC and matched at a site that gives you a half day of dedicated research time. My application did show a strong interest in research - being an RA on NIH grants, etc, and pubs in great journals don't hurt. But I think you should still include papers under review.

Depending on your research, the cycle to actually get published may fall more heavily in yrs 3, 4, 5...so under review is definitely worth considering, but you need to have a track record of the other stuff: working on grants, posters, symposiums, etc.

 

[CheetahGirl]

Agreed with all of the above. We were slightly involved in the selection during internship, and have been "tapped" much more heavily for both internship and postdoc selection while on fellowship, and it's been an interesting experience.

As for VA experience, VAs do tend to like folks with prior experience, but as T4C mentioned, it's not a "kiss of death" if you have none...with a caveat: if there's no VA nearby at which to work, that's one thing; but if there's a VA available (particularly one where your program has an established externship) and you didn't work there, then yes, that'll look bad. My program didn't have a training relationship with the only VA within a few hours of us, so I'm imagining my experience in multiple other settings made up for that in helping me to land a VA internship, which in turn helped with the VA postdoc.

What if you have VA experience, but not as a clinical psychology doctoral student? In my 'vast' clinical research experience , I worked at a VA for two years on the SCI unit (loved the work and loved the people - patients & staff, alike). It was very hands-on experience: I was in charge of the overall study, the data, reporting to the grant funding agency, and very involved in patient care (our core research team was an MD, a PA, and me). It was a once in a lifetime opportunity. I also presented the data internationally and nationally during several conferences. We continued this research, but at another major medical center. When the funding ended, we pulled out of the VA...so I continued this work for another 3 years.

There were only two clinical psychologists on the unit, but I hardly ever interacted with them - they would come to our weekly team meetings but strangely were very quiet and did not contribute much (I think it had to do with hospital politics). I'm targeting this VA again for internship applications because the training program is great and many folks from my program end up there year after year. I have clinical experience with trauma (my main focus & dissertation topic), chronic psychopathology, dual diagnoses, and assessment, including neuropsych testing. Can you tell I'm dying for at least an interview?

I'm hoping so, but will this help (having had this type of experience)? Because VAs are so competitive, I'm wondering if I would get an interview without my prior VA experience (based on my own merit). Maybe this should be in the WAMC thread. Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

[cara susanna]

I'd love a WAMC thread for internship apps I think it's difficult because it's so much more of a crapshoot, though.

Like I said, my program doesn't offer a VA prac and none of our past applicants seemed to have trouble matching to a VA internship. I'm applying without any VA experience but trauma is a big focus of mine.

 

[CheetahGirl]

I'd love a WAMC thread for internship apps I think it's difficult because it's so much more of a crapshoot, though.

Like I said, my program doesn't offer a VA prac and none of our past applicants seemed to have trouble matching to a VA internship. I'm applying without any VA experience but trauma is a big focus of mine.

So, Cara, you're applying to VAs on your merit alone. But my question is if my prior VA experience will make me more competitive than someone like you. Well, enough for an interview. Or should I just back off and focus on my experience more (not so much my prior experience & comfort level with the VA system)?

I'm really wondering what those who have been at VA sites think because of their keen insight.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I'd say prior experience with the VA in just about any capacity could theoretically help, although if it weren't part of my doctoral training, I personally wouldn't play it up too much other than to briefly mention it in my cover letter (and of course on my CV) somewhere.

 

[CheetahGirl]

Awesome! Thank you!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

It's worth mentioning bc it lets them know you have some exposure to VA culture, nomenclature, etc.

 

[InNae]

FWIW, I had no VA experience and most of my clinical training was in anxiety and mood broadly, which of course sometimes incidentally included trauma. There was a VA near me and my grad program did place students in practica at that VA, but I did not pursue those practica. I got interviews at all the VAs to which I applied, and I did my internship at a research-heavy VA. My program has a strong history of placing interns at VAs, and I think the reason is that we received excellent training in basic, transferrable clinical skills, including outstanding training in delivering EBTs. It was an easy transition to a VA environment. I think fewer than 1/2 of my intern class had prior VA experience.

CheetahGirl, I realize you were joking with cara about being more competitive, but it nonetheless might be helpful to consider that you need to meet the bar for a particular internship's interview phase, not necessarily have "better" experience than other applicants. I hope that makes sense - I'm quite certain, for example, that several of my fellow interns had had stronger training in trauma with veterans or others, but still I met the bar.

 

[CheetahGirl]

FWIW, I had no VA experience and most of my clinical training was in anxiety and mood broadly, which of course sometimes incidentally included trauma. There was a VA near me and my grad program did place students in practica at that VA, but I did not pursue those practica. I got interviews at all the VAs to which I applied, and I did my internship at a research-heavy VA. My program has a strong history of placing interns at VAs, and I think the reason is that we received excellent training in basic, transferrable clinical skills, including outstanding training in delivering EBTs. It was an easy transition to a VA environment. I think fewer than 1/2 of my intern class had prior VA experience.

CheetahGirl, I realize you were joking with cara about being more competitive, but it nonetheless might be helpful to consider that you need to meet the bar for a particular internship's interview phase, not necessarily have "better" experience than other applicants. I hope that makes sense - I'm quite certain, for example, that several of my fellow interns had had stronger training in trauma with veterans or others, but still I met the bar.

Thank you and T4C for your replies also. Yes, I was being facetious, and I get what you are saying about meeting the 'bar.' My training-so-far most likely meets that bar, but I'm still trying to figure out what that bar is (for this one particular VA) in order to get an interview. There are several training rotations offered that I feel would compliment my base-training that I have yet to experience (i.e. working with geriatric populations, etc.). I know that an applicant should continue to look at internship as an extension of training, but I want to make sure that they see I'm a good fit if I believe that I am. I was also looking for advice on how to frame the previous, non-doctoral training experience. I believe I know what to write in my statements now. And I'm so glad I posted here b/c I may have come across boastful about my previous experience had I not inquired about how to frame the past.

Thanks again!

 

[InNae]

I'm glad you're feeling more confident about your app materials. I think it's completely appropriate to note in cover letter and/or in a statement that you became quite familiar with the VA population during your two years doing x, and that you look forward to continuing your training with that population, and especially subpopulation z (e.g., geriatric). I think one common misconception (that you don't hold!) is that veterans are homogenous with respect to many demographic characteristics, when in fact the diversity of age, gender, sexual orientation, race/ethnicity (in addition to the diversity of presenting problems) is considerable and, at least to me, quite appealing.

 

[Avocadobunny]

Ok, so in my internship anxiety am I missing something about training models? I understand that scientist-practitioner internship training sites look for applicants that have a lot of research experience and usually a couple if not more publications in reputable peer-reviewed journals. Additionally, I understand that practitioner-scholar programs usually focus on clinical application of skills and may or may not look for an applicant that has research experience and / or publications (it seems like it varies from site to site?) SO, what is a scholar-practitioner model? Is it basically a site that values research and clinical skills equally? I honestly cannot find much about this training model... anyone know the difference? Thanks!

 

[erg923]

There is no difference. They just transposed the words.

 

[Avocadobunny]

There is no difference. They just transposed the words.

Ok that's exactly what I thought but why do that and make it so confusing??? Ugh!

 

[erg923]

I went to a VA facility that was pretty hardlined about their scientist-practitioner training philosophy (and research was excpect while you were there), but I was hardly a research hound in grad school and had mimimal production of peer-reviewed stuff. Lots of papers and posters though. Others in my cohort had less than me. I think for these sites, they need to see that you were involved and that you are a capable of scholary inquiry. Its really the Browns and Palo Alto VA type sites (academy sites) that need to see a nice track record of productivity.

 

[BoilerBoy]

Hi there,

I worked at a site that heavily emphasized report writing, and even with my very best drafts, my supervisors always took the time to give me thoughtful edits. When you submit an example report, is it assumed that it will be edited to reflect the edits that you and your supervisors agreed upon, or is it supposed to be entirely your independent construction?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Hi there,

I worked at a site that heavily emphasized report writing, and even with my very best drafts, my supervisors always took the time to give me thoughtful edits. When you submit an example report, is it assumed that it will be edited to reflect the edits that you and your supervisors agreed upon, or is it supposed to be entirely your independent construction?

I always took it to mean the final version, and I also always checked with the supervisor to be sure they were ok with me submitting that report. I opted to submit samples that had as little editing as possible, though.

 

[Avocadobunny]

I went to a VA facility that was pretty hardlined about their scientist-practitioner training philosophy (and research was excpect while you were there), but I was hardly a research hound in grad school and had mimimal production of peer-reviewed stuff. Lots of papers and posters though. Others in my cohort had less than me. I think for these sites, they need to see that you were involved and that you are a capable of scholary inquiry. Its really the Browns and Palo Alto VA type sites (academy sites) that need to see a nice track record of productivity.

That's for sharing this, I have pretty much eliminated scientist-practitioner model sites from my list because I did not think I would be competitive. While I'm involved in two research teams and have been an RA for a year, clinical work has been the focus of my grad school training. I currently have two pubs that are in review and about 9 papers / presentations. Any thoughts about if eliminating all scientist-practitioner models is the best way to go? Thank you!

 

[thewesternsky]

Avocado bunny -- Definitely don't eliminate scientist-practitioner sites. Remember, the mode number of publications for applicants is 0. There will be some people with more competitive research records than you, but you would likely have a shot at some of these sites, especially if you show your match in other ways.

 

[neuronic]

Avocado bunny -- Definitely don't eliminate scientist-practitioner sites. Remember, the mode number of publications for applicants is 0. There will be some people with more competitive research records than you, but you would likely have a shot at some of these sites, especially if you show your match in other ways.

I completely agree. Internship is meant to be a clinical training year. Brown, UCSF, among some others are more outliers and are more suited to clinical science folks, but unless a site specifies providing you with at least one day of protected research time, your clinical training will be given more weight. Pubs can definitely help, but not a deal breaker, as most sites will use a multiple regression type approach with considerations of hours, training sites, quality of training sites, recs, pubs, dissertation status, fit, etc.

This next part is for the larger questions about VAs. As for being competitive for a VA slot, prior experience can help land an interview, but will not always help you get ranked above folks without prior VA training. During the interview, they want to make sure you can emotionally handle working with veterans subjected to poly-trauma, amputations, sexual trauma, etc. They want to know you can process hearing about massacres of civilians, women, children, babies in graphic detail, and are able to handle the military culture of the VA (your gender will have an impact on how you are viewed and treated by veterans). With that said, working with veterans is an incredibly rewarding experience. Just make sure in your cover letters, that the site feels they can train you. If you say you are a good fit because they have x,y,z, and you have done x,y,z, then what can they really offer you. So make sure you address wanting to obtain the a,b,c to supplement x,y,z.