2014 Charting the Outcomes?

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mybubbles627

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Will there be a new Charting the Outcomes of the Match for 2014? They haven't had a new one since 2011 I believe. It would be nice to have updated board scores, publications, etc for matching.
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mybubbles627 said:
Will there be a new Charting the Outcomes of the Match for 2014? They haven't had a new one since 2011 I believe. It would be nice to have updated board scores, publications, etc for matching.
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The Careers in Medicine website from AAMC claims they use data from 2012-2013 when showing you these figures for each specialty. Idk where they get it from.
 
No new charting outcomes for the foreseeable future; the AAMC and NRMP aren't playing nice when it comes to the data used for analysis.
 
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b-real said:
No new charting outcomes for the foreseeable future; the AAMC and NRMP aren't playing nice when it comes to the data used for analysis.
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Ridiculous.
 
I e-mailed them asking if they were going to make it happen and this was the response "That’s what we are working to make happen. Hopefully we will have it in September 2014."
 
mybubbles627 said:
I e-mailed them asking if they were going to make it happen and this was the response "That’s what we are working to make happen. Hopefully we will have it in September 2014."
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After all the applications have been submitted for the class of 2015. Well, at least they're trying.
 
Kaputt said:
After all the applications have been submitted for the class of 2015. Well, at least they're trying.
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Will the data they provide change anything that you do in the application cycle? Probably not.
 
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ratherbefishing said:
Will the data they provide change anything that you do in the application cycle? Probably not.
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Well, some folks applying to ENT, plastics, and ortho may be using outdated numbers. For all we know the average Step 1 for ENT now is 250-something. Sub-average people would thus probably apply to a back-up specialty when in 2011 their numbers would have been okay. Slightly extreme example, I admit.
 
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Kaputt said:
Well, some folks applying to ENT, plastics, and ortho may be using outdated numbers. For all we know the average Step 1 for ENT now is 250-something. Sub-average people would thus probably apply to a back-up specialty when in 2011 their numbers would have been okay. Slightly extreme example, I admit.
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250 is probably a bit extreme, I would guess that the averages are several points higher at best. i doubt the national trend of increase in step score has been a result more people getting 250+, rather it's more likely b/c more people are getting in the 230's and 240's.
 
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Serous Demilune said:
The Careers in Medicine website from AAMC claims they use data from 2012-2013 when showing you these figures for each specialty. Idk where they get it from.
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I heard this too. I think they release the means for each specialty.
 
Serous Demilune said:
The Careers in Medicine website from AAMC claims they use data from 2012-2013 when showing you these figures for each specialty. Idk where they get it from.
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do you have a link showing those figures?
 
FIREitUP said:
do you have a link showing those figures?
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The source?

It's the Association of American Medical Colleges. Characteristics of Entering Residents, 2012-2013. Washington, DC: Association of American Medical Colleges; 2013

Just because they don't release the charting data doesn't mean they can't share the means of Step 1 and Step 2.
 
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@JackShephard said:
The source?

It's the Association of American Medical Colleges. Characteristics of Entering Residents, 2012-2013. Washington, DC: Association of American Medical Colleges; 2013

Just because they don't release the charting data doesn't mean they can't share the means of Step 1 and Step 2.
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i found the info, thanks. interesting that the mean for derm is 241 with a standard deviation of 16

ENT was 244 with a standard deviation of 13.
 
ratherbefishing said:
Will the data they provide change anything that you do in the application cycle? Probably not.
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That data can be useful when applying, especially when the data we have is already 3 cycles old. For the class of 2016, they will be using 5 year old data if no new data is released for 2014's match. Also, there is more data in that report that simple # of pubs and step scores data.

It's not likely to change what specialties people are applying to, but it may mean the difference between looking for an extra 5-10 low/mid tier programs to apply to or not, for example.
 
Nidor said:
On a side note, does anyone know if there is data available on if the Step one scores follow a normal distribution? (I always assumed it had a bimodal division because of the many international medical students taking it)
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The absolutely do not. The NBME has published multiple articles in Academic Medicine and other similar journals where they have said this. You can also do a quick look at the 2011 Charting the Outcomes Data and see that it's skewed. However, when it comes to averages for specific specialties, I don't know if those are Gaussian or not. My sense is that they are close just by eyeballing the histograms from CTO.
 
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operaman said:
The absolutely do not. The NBME has published multiple articles in Academic Medicine and other similar journals where they have said this. You can also do a quick look at the 2011 Charting the Outcomes Data and see that it's skewed. However, when it comes to averages for specific specialties, I don't know if those are Gaussian or not. My sense is that they are close just by eyeballing the histograms from CTO.
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Cite just one paper that gives the Step 1 score distribution.
 
tantacles said:
Do you think that makes you a reliable source?
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I've learned that medical people in general are very inflexible when it comes to adapting or using information. Somehow reasoning that if info doesn't come from a triple blinded randomized control trial that it can't be useful or believed.

Here's a simple method.

1. How important is the decision (1-10)? In this case, it's a 1.
2. Can someone make lots of money off of it? In this case, no. That means there won't be any RCTs anytime soon.
3. Who might know and can they be trusted? In this case, the people who are obssessive about Step scores and fraternize with those involved in writing questions.
 
@JackShephard said:
I've learned that medical people in general are very inflexible when it comes to adapting or using information. Somehow reasoning that if info doesn't come from a triple blinded randomized control trial that it can't be useful or believed.

Here's a simple method.

1. How important is the decision (1-10)? In this case, it's a 1.
2. Can someone make lots of money off of it? In this case, no. That means there won't be any RCTs anytime soon.
3. Who might know and can they be trusted? In this case, the people who are obssessive about Step scores and fraternize with those involved in writing questions.
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Did you think that I wasn't being sardonic?
 
@JackShephard said:
I've learned that medical people in general are very inflexible when it comes to adapting or using information. Somehow reasoning that if info doesn't come from a triple blinded randomized control trial that it can't be useful or believed.

Here's a simple method.

1. How important is the decision (1-10)? In this case, it's a 1.
2. Can someone make lots of money off of it? In this case, no. That means there won't be any RCTs anytime soon.
3. Who might know and can they be trusted? In this case, the people who are obssessive about Step scores and fraternize with those involved in writing questions.
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Unless I see a graph of the data with my own two eyes, I'm not going to take your word for it.
 
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chronicidal said:
Unless I see a graph of the data with my own two eyes, I'm not going to take your word for it.
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I'd expect no less from you.

And even if someone came up with a graph, you would be able to find flaws in the data or the methodology.
 
@JackShephard said:
I'd expect no less from you.

And even if someone came up with a graph, you would be able to find flaws in the data or the methodology.
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I just want to see descriptive stats of the Step 1 scores of a nationally representative sample from recent years. It's not that hard to screw up.
 
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chronicidal said:
I just want to see descriptive stats of the Step 1 scores of a nationally representative sample from recent years. It's not that hard to screw up.
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Right. If it was public info, I'm sure the SDN community would have found it by now.
 
I mean the red bars in the graph. They are labeled "national" but I always thought the score distribution of the usmle was a big secret. If that's true then scores are clearly negatively skewed.
 
DCBFan said:
I mean the red bars in the graph. They are labeled "national" but I always thought the score distribution of the usmle was a big secret. If that's true then scores are clearly negatively skewed.
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The red bars are the people who took the USMLE Step 1 last year (nationally).
 
DermViser said:
The red bars are the people who took the USMLE Step 1 last year (nationally).
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According to the Careers in Medicine website, the average Step 1 for derm in 2012-2013 was 241, down from 244 in 2011. Derm is becoming less competitive like rads.
 
llort1337 said:
According to the Careers in Medicine website, the average Step 1 for derm in 2012-2013 was 241, down from 244 in 2011. Derm is becoming less competitive like rads.
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Like you were told in the Dermatology forum, if you think an avg. board score difference of 3 pts. of those who matched, means that a specialty is somehow getting less competitive, then you are an utter fool.
 
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@JackShephard said:
They release those to all the deans. Our school released a similar chart with our scores/national scores.

Anyhow, this supports exactly what was said above.
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I don't think he was disagreeing with you. He was just asking for actual proof.
 
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Every time someone posts in here I keep thinking that charting outcomes 2014 is out

And then I look and it's pointless arguing

arg
 
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One day, there will be a thread that lasts more than a week and doesn't devolve into a pissing contest.
One day.
 
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2014 Charting Outcomes will be released on September 16th!
 
The day after 4th years submit their ERAS applications? Well wouldn't that be considerate of them.
 
With all the brouhaha about how competitive derm is (241 according to careers in medicine), I was surprised to find ENT at 244.
 
compstomper said:
With all the brouhaha about how competitive derm is (241 according to careers in medicine), I was surprised to find ENT at 244.
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The only brouhaha is on SDN. Just for truths sake, you realize 241 and 244 and pretty negligible in terms of an actual difference right?
 
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