27 - Any Hope?

[TabbyDragon]

MCAT: 27

PS - 7, VR - 11, BS - 9

cGPA 3.81, sGPA 3.66

EC: A ton of volunteering, ~120 hours shadowing, 100+ hours volunteering at a hospital, and I'm looking to get a scribe job (I know it's too late for AMCAS, but it might help with secondaries/interviews). I was also a TA for Gen Bio in college.

I am a California resident.

If you were to ask my premed advisor, he would probably say it's hopeless and DO schools are all I have. Thus, I haven't told him my score and I'm feeling pretty discouraged. Note that I do NOT want to retake. I really don't think I'll do much better; my practice tests were 27-29. I was hoping for a 30, but it didn't happen. I'm willing to work with the 27, though.

By the way, I know that that PS score is pretty bad, but I am honestly terrible when it comes to physics. I don't do too badly in gen chem, but physics has always just been so difficult for me. I did what I could to learn it, but I don't know how much my brain can comprehend. Another reason why it would be pointless to retake.

I majored in Bio, but I'm more of a music/writing/drawing person than a "science nerd" (no offense to the science nerds ). I'm hoping my personal statement will make me stand out, but who knows. I also hope the VR score will help a bit.

Now for my dilemma. I want to go to Loma Linda, but I am open to other schools here in CA, or in TX, NV, AZ, WA, or OR. I think I would be a really good fit for Loma Linda, so I would like to know my chances there, as well as for other schools in CA and the states mentioned. I really don't want to go the DO route, so I'm not sure it's even worth applying. I'm open to convincing on that topic, but I understand this is the MD forum, so there may be a bias.

Sorry for the novel; like I said, I like to write. Thank you for any and all feedback!

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[DK2014]

Here it is honestly. Your premed advisor was being truthful.

Unless you are URM or have some insane EC's, that 27 will keep you out of all California MD schools, including Loma Linda. I'd say you have a very, very slim chance at an interview at Riverside... but not likely. CA schools look for at least a 30 mcat, and are among the toughest schools in the nation to get in. TX schools don't really take OOS students, and OR and WA take OOS students with ties to the states, so unless you have ties to those states, don't bother. AZ schools are also known to have low OOS rates, so I'm not too hopeful for you there I'm afraid.

 

[DK2014]

You should be applying mainly DO if you really want to be a doctor.

 

[candbgirl]

To say you are open to convincing on DO med school seems rather strange. People can only tell you to check out and research DO to programs. We really can't convince you because med school is a huge commitment and only you know what is best for you. I will say you should spend some significant time reading and learning about DO philosophy. Then you can make an informed decision!

 

[el_duderino]

Below-average MCAT with verbal as the highest score certainly isn't going to do you any favors. Your relatively average science GPA isn't helping make up for it either.

I think MD is probably out of the question. You may have a shot at DO. I'm not going to try to "convince" you to go DO. If you genuinely want to be a physician you'll do it. If you don't genuinely want to be a physician there are other far more motivated people waiting in a long line behind you.

 

[Goro]

100% concur. OP, 27 is circling the drain territory for MD apps. You don't have the luxury of being choosy for MD schools, they do.

You're fine for any DO program, including mine.

Western and TUCOM-CA are in your backyard.

BTW, all TX schools are very OOS-unfriendly.

You should be applying mainly DO if you really want to be a doctor.

 

[lmn]

Not sure why you are opposed to become a DO, but if you really want to become a doctor, I would recommend reading a lot more indepth about DO programs and seeing if it is something that may interest you. I don't intend to convince you because honestly I don't see any reason why I should convince you on how to do something better for your future...

 

[TabbyDragon]

Thanks, guys. I mentioned "convincing" on the DO programs because I wasn't sure if that was really my only hope, but it sounds like it is. I have done thorough research on DO programs, and I agree with some of it, but not all.

I'm so upset with myself...I want this more than anything.

 

[TabbyDragon]

So, to squash that tiny bit of optimism that won't go away, is Loma Linda completely off the table? I talked to a student on campus who said that not as much weight is put on the MCAT. Also, I'm not SDA, but I am Christian, very active in church.

 

[lmn]

So, to squash that tiny bit of optimism that won't go away, is Loma Linda completely off the table? I talked to a student on campus who said that not as much weight is put on the MCAT. Also, I'm not SDA, but I am Christian, very active in church.

I'm not sure what their 10th-90th percentile MCAT is as my MSAR expired, but you may have a chance at them if you have a strong background of faith affiliation. If you have the money go ahead and apply to them as well if you want.

 

[TabbyDragon]

I'm not sure what their 10th-90th percentile MCAT is as my MSAR expired, but you may have a chance at them if you have a strong background of faith affiliation. If you have the money go ahead and apply to them as well if you want.

Thank you so much; I appreciate the encouragement. I may have a strong background; I've been volunteering in my church consistently since I was a child. Now they've hired me there.

I think I'm going to give Loma Linda and UCR a shot. I know UCR wants local people and wants them to stay, so there may be the slightest of chances there. Maybe. I also really liked how Western sounded when I went to their seminar, so I'll be looking into that too, and give those DO schools a second chance.

I don't have a bias against DOs as doctors, but I know there can be, and that was my concern.

Also, I mentioned those specific states, not to be choosy (I know I can't be), but to just have a starting point with this thread of what options I may have.

 

[BobGadha]

Loma Linda is approximately: 10th 26- 90th 35 med. 30.

 

[TabbyDragon]

Loma Linda is approximately: 10th 26- 90th 35 med. 30.

Thank you! Maybe there is a chance, albeit a small one. I'm going to submit my application as early as possible to maximize my chances.

Does anyone have any tips for improving my chances? Not sure what I can do at this point, but I'm willing to try.

 

[StBernardsRule]

Unless you are a URM, I think the 27 MCAT is just going to be a deal breaker. If money is no issue then sure apply, but unfortunately you are competing against an extremely competent application pool and just about everyone who has gotten this far really, really wants this. There just isn't a way to make up for a low MCAT, especially from your demographic (non-URM in California is probably the worst combination you can get).

 

[BestDoctorEver]

@TabbyDragon ... Since your chances are good for DO, apply to 7-8 DO and 20+ low tier MD that are not 'mcat-obsessed'

 

[gyngyn]

So, to squash that tiny bit of optimism that won't go away, is Loma Linda completely off the table? I talked to a student on campus who said that not as much weight is put on the MCAT. Also, I'm not SDA, but I am Christian, very active in church.

If you are a chaste, devout non-drinker with a validated commitment to serve Christ through healing, your MCAT would not rule you out ( though the median is still 31). LL along with Stanford are the only two CA schools that admit and interview more OOS than IS, however.

 

[TabbyDragon]

Thank you, everyone, for your replies!

@StBernardsRule Yeah, I know the 27 ruins pretty much anything else I have going for me. I have thought about retaking, but I want to apply as early as possible, so I'm really torn. And if I do even worse, well...

@BestDoctorEver Is there a list of MD schools out there that aren't MCAT-obsessed? I haven't been able to dig up anything. Is it just ones with a low average matriculant MCAT?

@gyngyn Yep, that would describe me. I come from a private Christian university, so I know the drill. My advisor said that Loma Linda likes applicants who have already been in that environment.

Sorry, I have another question: how does one show ties to a certain state? Is it that you had to have lived there?

 

[gyngyn]

@BestDoctorEver Is there a list of MD schools out there that aren't MCAT-obsessed? I haven't been able to dig up anything. Is it just ones with a low average matriculant MCAT?

Those would be the mission based schools: HBCU's and the schools in Puerto Rico. Your MCAT is at or near the 90th% in Puerto Rico, but you would need to be fluent in Spanish to get one of the few non-islander positions.

 

[BobGadha]

Thank you, everyone, for your replies!

@gyngyn Yep, that would describe me. I come from a private Christian university, so I know the drill. My advisor said that Loma Linda likes applicants who have already been in that environment.

I think it would be worth a shot.

 

[TabbyDragon]

@gyngyn I'm white and not fluent in Spanish. Didn't think it could get any worse for me, did you?

@BobGadha Thank you, sir! I think so, too. And that's a very fine mustache you have.

I'm having a tough time finding schools that would be worth applying to with AMCAS, and DO schools are a whole different thing. I want to apply now because of the chance with Loma Linda, but if I'm honest, I would probably do better on the 2015 MCAT. I don't know how much applying now would hurt my chances if I had to reapply, but from what I've read, it doesn't look good to reapply.

 

[el_duderino]

I would apply to Loma Linda and a bunch of DO schools if I were you.

 

[tofuuu]

You need to re-take the MCAT if you really want to get into an MD program.
In my opinion, it is easier to improve on the science section compared to the verbal section.

I would suggest taking another year off to improve on your MCAT and to strengthen your extracurriculars.

 

[GypsyHummus]

If you are a chaste, devout non-drinker with a validated commitment to serve Christ through healing, your MCAT would not rule you out ( though the median is still 31). LL along with Stanford are the only two CA schools that admit and interview more OOS than IS, however.

Do mission statements really play that much of an impact on admissions?

Do state schools (non California ones) exhibit similar devotion to state students?

 

[lmn]

Do mission statements really play that much of an impact on admissions?

Do state schools (non California ones) exhibit similar devotion to state students?

When you choose one of the schools with the strongest mission statements, yes.

Most public state schools favor their own, check the MSAR for specifics.

 

[gyngyn]

Do mission statements really play that much of an impact on admissions?

Do state schools (non California ones) exhibit similar devotion to state students?

1. yes, huge.
2. CA public schools do have an IS bias. It's just that there are 3x the number of competitive candidates in CA than there are seats for. That doesn't even count the other 1500+ very good candidates who might have gotten into a state school if theirs was another state...

 

[TabbyDragon]

You need to re-take the MCAT if you really want to get into an MD program.
In my opinion, it is easier to improve on the science section compared to the verbal section.

I would suggest taking another year off to improve on your MCAT and to strengthen your extracurriculars.

So it will hurt me to apply now vs. waiting until next year?

If I become a scribe, will I still need to strengthen my ECs? There are quite a few ECs I didn't mention.

 

[gyngyn]

So it will hurt me to apply now vs. waiting until next year?

If I become a scribe, will I still need to strengthen my ECs? There are quite a few ECs I didn't mention.

Your EC's are not the weak link in your application. You could be Mother Teresa incarnate and not get into an MD school this year. You are fine for DO. You can either get a 33+ on the MCAT and apply next year or apply to DO and be a medical student next year.

 

[tofuuu]

So it will hurt me to apply now vs. waiting until next year?

If I become a scribe, will I still need to strengthen my ECs? There are quite a few ECs I didn't mention.

I don't particularly think your extracurriculars are weak. I'm just listing another benefit of taking a year off.

The rule of thumb that my premed advisor told me was that you need at least a 30 to have a chance with MD programs.
I actually know quite a few people with a 30 that got into a MD program.

 

[TabbyDragon]

@tofuuu My apologies, I misunderstood! That is what my advisor told me, also. I would have been perfectly happy with a 30, and with my practice tests I got so close.

So, would it be a bad idea for me to apply this year and see if I get into an MD program? If I don't, but I retake the MCAT and do better, will my chances still be hurt because I'm reapplying?

 

[DrCharlemagne]

@tofuuu My apologies, I misunderstood! That is what my advisor told me, also. I would have been perfectly happy with a 30, and with my practice tests I got so close.

So, would it be a bad idea for me to apply this year and see if I get into an MD program? If I don't, but I retake the MCAT and do better, will my chances still be hurt because I'm reapplying?

Most people on SDN say there is a bias against reapplicants, but as a successful one I'm not sure how true that is in all cases. What is definitely true is it's an expensive, difficult, protracted mistake to make. If this is truly your heart's desire, it can do you no harm to take a gap year, do some work, continue with your ECs and slam your MCAT. Ask in your church if anyone is a physics whiz; I wound up being able to get "get it" with a tutor who took the time to invest in me and tailored the lessons to the way I think (he was more of a music and less of a science person too). I'm betting there's a kind heart in your congregation who would be willing and able to help you.

 

[TabbyDragon]

Most people on SDN say there is a bias against reapplicants, but as a successful one I'm not sure how true that is in all cases. What is definitely true is it's an expensive, difficult, protracted mistake to make. If this is truly your heart's desire, it can do you no harm to take a gap year, do some work, continue with your ECs and slam your MCAT. Ask in your church if anyone is a physics whiz; I wound up being able to get "get it" with a tutor who took the time to invest in me and tailored the lessons to the way I think (he was more of a music and less of a science person too). I'm betting there's a kind heart in your congregation who would be willing and able to help you.

Thank you so much; I've been taking everyone's words to heart, but this really resonated with me. I'm starting to think more and more that I'll be able to do much better on a retake, so maybe that's what I need to do. It's just a matter of deciding to go for it this year or wait for the new one. I think I would do better on the new one, but then I would probably be taking it in spring. This is going to sound silly, but I think taking the MCAT in spring is a bad idea for me. I get sick constantly every single spring, and this spring was no exception. I was sick on test day and could barely speak. I hate allergies. Anyway, I will have to figure out timing.

As for getting a tutor, while my church is amazing and people are more than happy to help, I'm not sure who would be knowledgeable in physics. I will have to ask around!

Thanks again! Also, would you be willing to share your story with me? You can PM me if you want.

 

[tofuuu]

@tofuuu My apologies, I misunderstood! That is what my advisor told me, also. I would have been perfectly happy with a 30, and with my practice tests I got so close.

So, would it be a bad idea for me to apply this year and see if I get into an MD program? If I don't, but I retake the MCAT and do better, will my chances still be hurt because I'm reapplying?

You want to avoid reapplying at all cost. It's expensive, you're wasting your time, and I was told that most schools don't like re-applicants.
This isn't a race. It doesn't matter whether you get into a program this year or next year, you'll still be a doctor. So there should be no reason for you to feel like you need to rush through the process. If you don't feel ready or if there's even the slightest doubt, I'd wait to apply.

If you apply this year and get into a DO but not a MD, would you still go to the DO school? If yes, then go ahead. But your chances of getting into an MD is really low so I wouldn't expect too much.

 

[DrCharlemagne]

Thanks again! Also, would you be willing to share your story with me? You can PM me if you want.

There's not much to my story - I graduated with a degree in psychology and was already considering medical school. I did two years of bench research in my field, found the volunteering I did in the ED more rewarding, and so I applied to a post-bac (I had no pre-reqs). During that year my folks divorced, and it was ugly, so I wound up taking another gap year, and stupidly applied late the next cycle. When I didn't get off the waitlist, I made some serious personal changes, recruited a friend who would hold me accountable and got everything I could in as timely as I could, and this year I landed three II, two acceptances, and am one incredibly happy lady. This is a marathon, not a sprint, so take the long view.

BTW, the finding a tutor in the church thing was just a starting point, but you never know who might know somebody who knows somebody who is a real whiz. You never know, that is, until you ask. Good luck.