MD & DO 3.25 cGPA, 3.1 sGPA, 32 MCAT. Advice & help with my list please.

[stumpedchick]

Hi everyone, I did a lot of maturing the last few years but like everyone, my GPA is haunting me. I still want to apply this year and was hoping you guys can help me with my list, particularly with adding allopathic schools. But if I don't get into any schools this coming cycle, I want to pursue a masters in global/public health for my second gap year because I love the field. But I feel like doing a post-bacc might be better in terms of increasing my chances. What do you guys think? Thanks in advance!

List (18)

• ATSU (Kirksville & Az)
• AZCOM
• CCOM
• Des Moines
• LECOM (Erie & Bradenton)
• LMU-DCOM
• NYIT
• Nova
• PCOM
• Touro (NY, CA, NV)
• UNECOM
• WVSOM
• Western (CA & OR)
• Any allopathic schools?

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[s5260205]

MD chances are near to none, and I would not suggest wasting your money in AMCAS. Your primary weakness is in GPAs, which could be re-mediated through grade replacement for DO schools and post-bacc/SMP for MD schools. It's up to you which ones you want to pursue. While your MCAT is competitive for all DO schools, your GPAs are too low and would likely result in less interview invites. Additionally, you should add more newer schools to maximize your chances.

 

[gyngyn]

A decent shot at MD would include a post bac.

 

[Stagg737]

A real shot at MD or DO would include a post bac (or significant grade replacement for DO), especially for someone coming from Cali.

 

[stumpedchick]

How are my chances looking for osteopathic schools? Should I not apply this year and focus on retaking the prereq classes?

 

[stumpedchick]

@AlbinoHawk DO & @Goro, you two have offered me much appreciated advice prior to me writing the MCAT. Can you offer me any new advice? How am I looking? Can I apply to my list of DO schools with my stats as is?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Apply and see. I don't find it unrealistic at any of those schools. Maybe some will be wary due to the low GPA, but it's also possible they give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Goro]

The downward trend in 5th year is worrisome. However, I think applying broadly should yield good results, especially with that MCAT score.

@AlbinoHawk DO & @Goro, you two have offered me much appreciated advice prior to me writing the MCAT. Can you offer me any new advice? How am I looking? Can I apply to my list of DO schools with my stats as is?

 

[stumpedchick]

Thank you all for your input.

 

[user3]

A real shot at MD or DO would include a post bac (or significant grade replacement for DO), especially for someone coming from Cali.

agree for MD but disagree for DO. Even with a 27 they would still have a great chance of getting in somewhere.

32 MCAT is at the top end of DO applicants, and the GPA's are above most cutoffs-- numerous interviews will be in store.

 

[Stagg737]

agree for MD but disagree for DO. Even with a 27 they would still have a great chance of getting in somewhere.

32 MCAT is at the top end of DO applicants, and the GPA's are above most cutoffs-- numerous interviews will be in store.

Disagree with the bolded. A 27 is below average at several schools on her list and would not give her 'great' chances of getting into most DO schools, especially with her GPA and fairly typical ECs. I believe they would get screened out pre-secondary at mine. No question the 32 helps a lot, but still doesn't change the fact that the GPA mediocre. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if OP applies and gets accepted, but I also wouldn't be surprised to hear she didn't get in either.

@stumpedchick, here is what I would do if I were in your shoes (if you want to go to a DO school). I would apply broadly (your list seems pretty good) to the upcoming cycle as early as possible, keep adding to your ECs, and try and get some grade replacement in over the summer. If you have any Cs in major classes (physio, genetics, chem, etc.), replace them and get As, it will not only help your GPA, but show you understand the core sciences. I doubt anyone is questioning that given your MCAT, but I would get rid of your grades of C or lower and make sure there are absolutely no holes that can be poked in your app. As others have stated, I think you're a decent applicant right now and will likely see a few iis. However, seeing as my stats were somewhat similar to yours and it took me 3 times applying DO and MD to get in, I wouldn't say you're golden by any means.

Like gyngyn said, if you don't want to go DO and only want MD, there's no way out of a post-bac.

 

[stumpedchick]

@Stagg737 Wow, thank you for the thorough advice. Should I replace my grades though if they are Bs? I have 4 Cs on my transcript, two from studying abroad. I've retaken the abroad ones (both As) back at my home institution but because the abroad institution is on the semester system they won't be replaced because my school operates in quarter system. I think my only chance at improving my GPA would be to retake all my prereqs (mostly Bs) which I am kind of reluctant to do because (1) it seems redundant seeing that I've studied bio/phys/chem extensively for the MCATs and (2) I've been so invested in gaining more medical/EC experience. But if that's what I have to do, then that's what I'll do.

 

[Stagg737]

That's a rough situation. If you've got any B minuses, especially in the sciences, they might be worth replacing if you can get solid A's. Otherwise it's probably not worth it. Keep building your ECs and apply to some SMPs as a back-up to cover your bases just in case. I can say that getting a 3.8 in my master's definitely helped my app out. Apply early, keep building ECs, and I think you've got a fair shot as it is. I'd always prepare for the 'what if' though.

 

[stumpedchick]

@Stagg737 I have one B- in chem. That's about it. I have three questions if you don't mind answering: (1) what ECs do you recommend me adding to my list? (2) wouldn't retaking my prereqs for my 2nd gap year (which would give me a AACOMAS 3.4 cGPA and 3.35 sGPA assuming I get all As) be more cost friendly and better than applying to an SMP and waiting for an acceptance? (3) Are you in osteopathic school right now?

 

[Stagg737]

1) I'd keep doing the scribe work as it's solid clinical exposure. You also don't mention any volunteer hours above other than the ones you did abroad. If you don't have them, I'd highly recommend putting some solid time in. It doesn't usually look good when you have a little international work without strong local volunteering experience. Adcoms tend to think the international stuff was more for personal vacation/fun than actual volunteering.

2) If you're only applying to DO schools I think it's a perfectly valid option. Killing an SMP would open potential doors at MD programs. At least that's how I see it, you may want to ask people like gyngyn, winged scapula, or lizziem as they could probably give you significantly better insight about the MD route.

3) Yes, M1. I had 2 DO iis and 1 MD. After I got accepted I withdrew from my other 2 iis and many of the other schools I had applied to. I'm very happy with my decisions about that cycle. Feel free to PM me if you have more questions.

 

[user3]

Disagree with the bolded. A 27 is below average at several schools on her list and would not give her 'great' chances of getting into most DO schools, especially with her GPA and fairly typical ECs. I believe they would get screened out pre-secondary at mine. No question the 32 helps a lot, but still doesn't change the fact that the GPA mediocre. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if OP applies and gets accepted, but I also wouldn't be surprised to hear she didn't get in either.

@stumpedchick, here is what I would do if I were in your shoes (if you want to go to a DO school). I would apply broadly (your list seems pretty good) to the upcoming cycle as early as possible, keep adding to your ECs, and try and get some grade replacement in over the summer. If you have any Cs in major classes (physio, genetics, chem, etc.), replace them and get As, it will not only help your GPA, but show you understand the core sciences. I doubt anyone is questioning that given your MCAT, but I would get rid of your grades of C or lower and make sure there are absolutely no holes that can be poked in your app. As others have stated, I think you're a decent applicant right now and will likely see a few iis. However, seeing as my stats were somewhat similar to yours and it took me 3 times applying DO and MD to get in, I wouldn't say you're golden by any means.

Like gyngyn said, if you don't want to go DO and only want MD, there's no way out of a post-bac.

http://mdapplicants.com/profile.php?id=27675&refname=Search Results&refuri=search,search_appstatus:accepted,search_school:167,psr:0,orderby:,order:
http://mdapplicants.com/profile.php...cepted,search_school:167,psr:0,orderby:,order:

 

[Stagg737]

http://mdapplicants.com/profile.php?id=27675&refname=Search Results&refuri=search,search_appstatus:accepted,search_school:167,psr:0,orderby:,order:
http://mdapplicants.com/profile.php?id=28108&refname=Search Results&refuri=search,search_appstatus:accepted,search_school:167,psr:0,orderby:,order:

n=2, so what? The first one had 300+ shadowing hours and 2000+ clinical volunteering/work hours along with other ECs that are unique (scuba diving and rock climbing). Even with all that, I'm surprised they got 12 interviews. I would assume they either had outstanding secondaries/LORs or they got very lucky, especially considering they were only accepted to 2 of those schools. The second person was non-trad who had active duty in the military, which automatically gives you a leg up at most schools, MD or DO. If more people that got rejected posted to MDapps it would be littered with individuals with those stats who got rejected.

As much as I hate to say it, in terms of ECs OP doesn't stack up to either of these candidates who both had strong ECs or life experiences. She has a strong MCAT, mediocre grades, and average ECs at best. I'd say she's an average candidate, maybe slightly above or below depending on if she's got personal experiences/goals that match up with what schools are looking for. She is by no means a sure thing, but I also think she's got a decent shot at a few ii's if she applies this cycle.

I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic. This is coming from someone who had an app very similar to OP and had to apply 3 times to get in. I also had several friends with somewhat similar stats that didn't get in. I also know people with lower stats that got in MD. It's never a sure thing. I'll stick by the statement that she should apply this cycle and do what she can to bring her GPA up and strengthen her ECs. I'd also recommend having something to fall back on, as I would have been absolutely screwed if I didn't (and that fallback 100% helped my app).

A real shot at MD or DO would include a post bac (or significant grade replacement for DO), especially for someone coming from Cali.

I'll amend this. "A real shot at MD or being able to really feel confident about getting in DO would include..." Does that work better?

 

[stumpedchick]

agree for MD but disagree for DO. Even with a 27 they would still have a great chance of getting in somewhere.

32 MCAT is at the top end of DO applicants, and the GPA's are above most cutoffs-- numerous interviews will be in store.

@Stagg737 Will you agree with this?

In all seriousness though, thanks for your thoughtful and sincere input. It's more comforting to know that I can improve on something vs thinking I'm a solid candidate and free sailing until applications open in June.

 

[stumpedchick]

The downward trend in 5th year is worrisome. However, I think applying broadly should yield good results, especially with that MCAT score.

Would you consider me for an II? If not, what are ways I can maximize my chances this coming cycle? Thanks, Goro. Your response is much appreciated.

 

[Stagg737]

@Stagg737 Will you agree with this?

In all seriousness though, thanks for your thoughtful and sincere input. It's more comforting to know that I can improve on something vs thinking I'm a solid candidate and free sailing until applications open in June.

Saying your GPAs are above most cutoffs is somewhat of a silly statement to me. Beating the cutoff doesn't make you competitive, it means they acknowledge you're not incompetent. This is why I am hesitant to say you're a strong applicant.

However, if you tell the right story in your PS and secondaries, then I think you should see more than 1 or 2, but I wouldn't automatically count on a lot more than that. Looking at your GPA breakdown, it looks like if you take out your 3rd year your numbers jump up to around 3.45/3.35 which are MUCH stronger stats than your current total GPA. I'd make sure every school you apply to knows what happened 3rd year and why that year doesn't accurately represent your abilities. I believe a 3.4 GPA with a 32 MCAT should yield several iis and a few acceptances at DO schools, you just have to show that those are the numbers that represent you.

 

[user3]

n=2, so what? The first one had 300+ shadowing hours and 2000+ clinical volunteering/work hours along with other ECs that are unique (scuba diving and rock climbing). Even with all that, I'm surprised they got 12 interviews. I would assume they either had outstanding secondaries/LORs or they got very lucky, especially considering they were only accepted to 2 of those schools. The second person was non-trad who had active duty in the military, which automatically gives you a leg up at most schools, MD or DO. If more people that got rejected posted to MDapps it would be littered with individuals with those stats who got rejected.

As much as I hate to say it, in terms of ECs OP doesn't stack up to either of these candidates who both had strong ECs or life experiences. She has a strong MCAT, mediocre grades, and average ECs at best. I'd say she's an average candidate, maybe slightly above or below depending on if she's got personal experiences/goals that match up with what schools are looking for. She is by no means a sure thing, but I also think she's got a decent shot at a few ii's if she applies this cycle.

I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic. This is coming from someone who had an app very similar to OP and had to apply 3 times to get in. I also had several friends with somewhat similar stats that didn't get in. I also know people with lower stats that got in MD. It's never a sure thing. I'll stick by the statement that she should apply this cycle and do what she can to bring her GPA up and strengthen her ECs. I'd also recommend having something to fall back on, as I would have been absolutely screwed if I didn't (and that fallback 100% helped my app).



I'll amend this. "A real shot at MD or being able to really feel confident about getting in DO would include..." Does that work better?

Don't make me tag people with comparable/lower scores that have been highly successful with DO apps...they will set the record straight that OP has GREAT chances for an acceptance with their list.

 

[user3]

@Stagg737 Will you agree with this?

In all seriousness though, thanks for your thoughtful and sincere input. It's more comforting to know that I can improve on something vs thinking I'm a solid candidate and free sailing until applications open in June.

read this-

You will be completely fine. Let me tell you my very fast story... And if you want you could probably find my WAMC post. My stats going into this round were 3.2 cgpa and sgpa with a 26 mcat . I then retook the mcat in August and got a 29. Pre-new mcat I received around 7 II And post I was closer to 10-11 and at the end of the day around 7 acceptances. I am not telling this story to brag but to give you hope that you will be just fine. Apply broadly and be open to anything.

 

[Stagg737]

And what else is in those people's apps? When people with well below average GPAs get in, it's either because they have strong ECS/life experiences to show they are mature enough to handle med school curriculum, they only applied to low-tier schools (some of which I would avoid if at all possible), or they got lucky. Both of your previous examples had strong ECs and I'm guessing your new example also did if they got that many iis and acceptances. I know more people than I can count on my fingers and toes who had below a 3.25 GPA and over a 28 MCAT (some of them over a 32) that didn't get in their first time applying, and many of them did apply broadly.

If you want stats instead of stories, here's a link to AACOMAS fact sheets. n=17,000. Click on the 2014 applicant summary report and look at the numbers. Sure, she's in the top 20% for the MCAT, but she's also in the bottom 25% of applicants in terms of GPA. I think we both agree that if she can convince schools that a 3.4-3.45 GPA (reflective of her's minus third year) is reflective of her abilities, she will be a solid candidate at most places and strong at some.

http://www.aacom.org/reports-programs-initiatives/aacom-reports/applicants

Also, I'd say she's probably fine now if she wants to shotgun the app and just go to a low-tier school if that's the only place she's accepted. However, there are a few schools, both MD and DO, that I would rather not attend given the option because of their match lists and low level 1 pass rates (if a school's pass rate is below 90% then it tells me either they're accepting too many people that shouldn't be in med school, or their curriculum is poor). I think OP is close enough to being a solid applicant at good schools, that she shouldn't have to settle on the weaker schools.

 

[Goro]

Because my school doesn't prescreen, wit your numbers, you'd get an II. Whether you get an accept is up to how well you do in the interview.

Would you consider me for an II? If not, what are ways I can maximize my chances this coming cycle? Thanks, Goro. Your response is much appreciated.