3.8 and 42 - good numbers but red flags and mediocore ECs

[NVdisG]

Hi.

cGPA sGPA both are 3.7 or 3.8 by the time I apply

MCAT 42 14/14/14

EC:
will have 4 years of EMS experience as driver and emt
community health club - Eboard member freshman and sophomore year - 4 hours a week during school year
religious club all 4 years (just a member so 1 hour a week)

hobbies
took private pilot's license lessons freshman year - 2 hours a week
weight lifting - 4 hours a week

shadowing:
5 hours EM doc, 8 hours allergist, 20 hours pulm/cc, 5 hours oncologist

red flags: 2 alcohol violations (one freshman year and one junior year)

NY resident and want to stay close to home preferably. Have not done any research and would love to be accepted anywhere especially SUNY Downstate. What are my chances

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[jk1006]

have fun going to pretty much any school you want with those stats

 

[darkjedi]

It would be tough to break into the top-10 without some sort of research, even with stats like yours, but that might not be your goal. You also need significantly more volunteering/shadowing hours.

 

[mcloaf]

Hi.

cGPA sGPA both are 3.7 or 3.8 by the time I apply

MCAT 42 14/14/14

EC:
will have 4 years of EMS experience as driver and emt
community health club - Eboard member freshman and sophomore year - 4 hours a week during school year
religious club all 4 years (just a member so 1 hour a week)

hobbies
took private pilot's license lessons freshman year - 2 hours a week
weight lifting - 4 hours a week

shadowing:
5 hours EM doc, 8 hours allergist, 20 hours pulm/cc, 5 hours oncologist

red flags: 2 alcohol violations (one freshman year and one junior year)

NY resident and want to stay close to home preferably. Have not done any research and would love to be accepted anywhere especially SUNY Downstate. What are my chances

As Darkjedi said, without research and without some other sort of hook top 10 will probably be a stretch.

Also consider that having repeated violations is MUCH more serious than just the one as a freshman. It's hard to put forth a redemption story if you're still doing the same **** as a junior. Did you do any sort of classes or community service after your infractions?

I can't speak to the SUNY schools as I don't know much about them, but your safest bet will be to apply to a ton of schools in the hopes of finding somebody willing to take a gamble on your questionable judgment because of your stats.

have fun going to pretty much any school you want with those stats

Yeah no. OP can probably safely count on getting an MD at a fine school, but it's not like Harvard and their kind are rolling out the red carpet for anybody with good numbers. They choose not to interview plenty of them every year, not to mention those who lack research or remarkable ECs and who have blemished records. Every time somebody with a 40+ makes a thread there are like 10 people who pop in to say "Enjoy Harvard/Hopkins" without having any idea what they're talking about.

 

[Goro]

My gut reaction is that you'll get interviews, but that 2nd alcohol violation shows that you didn't learn your lesson, and you're more likely to be wait-listed/rejected. You may have to put some time between this and applications.

In addition, the ECs look like you're putting in the bare minimum, as opposed to someone who really wants to be a doctor. An acceptance to medical school isn't a reward for being smart or getting good grades, it's a privilege.

Hi.

cGPA sGPA both are 3.7 or 3.8 by the time I apply

MCAT 42 14/14/14

EC:
will have 4 years of EMS experience as driver and emt
community health club - Eboard member freshman and sophomore year - 4 hours a week during school year
religious club all 4 years (just a member so 1 hour a week)

hobbies
took private pilot's license lessons freshman year - 2 hours a week
weight lifting - 4 hours a week

shadowing:
5 hours EM doc, 8 hours allergist, 20 hours pulm/cc, 5 hours oncologist

red flags: 2 alcohol violations (one freshman year and one junior year)

NY resident and want to stay close to home preferably. Have not done any research and would love to be accepted anywhere especially SUNY Downstate. What are my chances

 

[NVdisG]

I'm not sure if I'm interested in a top 10 school. I'd rather just get started with my medical education as soon as I graduate rather than take a year to do research. And yes I do have community service for the 2nd infraction.

 

[inycepoo]

Yeah no. OP can probably safely count on getting an MD at a fine school, but it's not like Harvard and their kind are rolling out the red carpet for anybody with good numbers. They choose not to interview plenty of them every year, not to mention those who lack research or remarkable ECs and who have blemished records. Every time somebody with a 40+ makes a thread there are like 10 people who pop in to say "Enjoy Harvard/Hopkins" without having any idea what they're talking about.

+4052134

Also, shout-out to dat username doe. BWAHAHAHAHAHA

[YOUTUBE]lc0zKB88XPM[/YOUTUBE]

 

[inycepoo]

OP should be able to get love at plenty of schools, but none of that top 20 killing to have him sort of thing. Also, he's gotta prepare some story to back up that double violation. Alcohol incidents can be seen as especially stupid and irresponsible, so it's much bigger of a problem than it looks on paper. By the time you're a junior, especially, there's just no excuse that would fly. That, with the minimum ECs as Goro pointed out, closes lots of doors that would've been wide open with a LizzyM score of 79.

 

[487806]

have fun going to pretty much any school you want with those stats

mcloaf already made it clear but I'll repeat the important point. It's a terrible misconception to assume that high stats lead to a shoe-in at Top 20 schools. That is wrong and get that thought out of your mind.

OP, I'm not exactly sure what your research experience is (if it exists). In that case, don't apply top heavy.

 

[TriagePreMed]

It would be tough to break into the top-10 without some sort of research, even with stats like yours, but that might not be your goal. You also need significantly more volunteering/shadowing hours.

I agree. Very unlikely for top 20 because of those 2 factors. MD acceptance? Probable if the alcohol is overlooked. I'm still surprised schools care. Alcohol is so rampant in college. If you don't have a violation is because you didn't get caught, but you know you did it.

 

[inycepoo]

I agree. Very unlikely for top 20 because of those 2 factors. MD acceptance? Probable if the alcohol is overlooked. I'm still surprised schools care. Alcohol is so rampant in college. If you don't have a violation is because you didn't get caught, but you know you did it.

Gross generalization. Not everyone drinks in college. (I sure as hell don't.)

 

[darkjedi]

At my undergrad, there were pretty ridiculous rules about having alcohol in your dorms. If you were older than 21, you were limited to only a 6-pack of beer or one bottle of wine per room. If your RA had it out for you, there was nothing to stop him from writing you up for an alcohol violation, even if you were just drinking with your buddies at home watching a movie or playing games. We had some really backwards rules when I was still there, left over from a super conservative dean who had left not so long ago.

I do agree though, that while one violation can be overlooked, two is a little more difficult to play off.

 

[aspiring20]

one alcohol violations has zero impact; but two, and you could have a problem because of the "pattern".

but you have stellar stats, and i would add in some volunteering hours.

other than that, you should be set!

 

[sunflower18]

Gross generalization. Not everyone drinks in college. (I sure as hell don't.)

+1. I really dislike the huge cultural obsession with alcohol, and the generalization that all college students either drink or are socially inept. This doesn't help OP at all, but it's a point that I feel is important to make.

Anyway, back on topic, I agree with the general consensus in that research is super important for top schools. MSAR shows that, for many of them, ~95% have research experience. If you're not shooting for those, I think that great MCAT score could definitely get you looked at from many MD programs who might have otherwise strayed due to the alcohol violations.

Best of luck OP, and congrats on that beautiful MCAT score!!

 

[TriagePreMed]

Gross generalization. Not everyone drinks in college. (I sure as hell don't.)

But that's probably because you had no friends.

 

[inycepoo]

But that's probably because you had no friends.

Man, nice comeback! Extra props on the originality. You must be really good at socializing huh.

You're straight up pathetic if you think alcohol is necessary for making friends. If you require alcohol to meet and mingle with people, something is seriously wrong with your social skills. Those who don't drink to have fun are not socially awkward at all. In fact, we're actually better at socializing than you'll ever be because we don't need the influence of a chemical to enhance our sociability. We're intrinsically better at hanging with people from the get-go.

 

[xffan624]

Man, nice comeback! Extra props on the originality. You must be really good at socializing huh.

You're straight up pathetic if you think alcohol is necessary for making friends. If you require alcohol to meet and mingle with people, something is seriously wrong with your social skills. Those who don't drink to have fun are not socially awkward at all. In fact, we're actually better at socializing than you'll ever be because we don't need the influence of a chemical to enhance our sociability. We're intrinsically better at hanging with people from the get-go.

This is why we college drinkers make stupid generalizations because the non-drinkers come off as judgmental. Although I love them cause they make great DDs!

I would say the statistics bear out that the majority of college students drink at some time to varying degrees so the point that one alcohol violation is more accepted is still valid. How many ADCOM's drank during college (and some even more than that, given the generation)? Most, but not all, of course.

Two violations might be an issue for some ADCOM's but I think some who probably think the drinking age should be 18 anyway might overlook. OP will get in somewhere if he applies broadly and early. Certainly not really a good candidate for the top tiers in spite of the MCAT.

OP, improve your EC's before you apply, and address the alcohol violations maturely and openly and you will definitely improve your options.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Man, nice comeback! Extra props on the originality. You must be really good at socializing huh.

You're straight up pathetic if you think alcohol is necessary for making friends. If you require alcohol to meet and mingle with people, something is seriously wrong with your social skills. Those who don't drink to have fun are not socially awkward at all. In fact, we're actually better at socializing than you'll ever be because we don't need the influence of a chemical to enhance our sociability. We're intrinsically better at hanging with people from the get-go.

If you read my comment, it implies you need friends to go out drinking with, not that drinking creates friends, so nice try sport.

See, I'm in my late 20s and I don't drink much at all anymore by choice, but I also remember my experiences with alcohol in college which were not a big deal. I also realize the amount of college students that drink is significantly larger than those that don't and the world hasn't imploded because of college kids drinking, so I realize it's bull**** when we think a couple of infractions regarding alcohol by a young person are meaningful.

 

[inycepoo]

If you read my comment, it implies you need friends to go out drinking with, not that drinking creates friends, so nice try sport..

Lol sure then you're terrible at this implication commenting thing, then.

 

[ciestar]

If you read my comment, it implies you need friends to go out drinking with, not that drinking creates friends, so nice try sport.

See, I'm in my late 20s and I don't drink much at all anymore by choice, but I also remember my experiences with alcohol in college which were not a big deal. I also realize the amount of college students that drink is significantly larger than those that don't and the world hasn't imploded because of college kids drinking, so I realize it's bull**** when we think a couple of infractions regarding alcohol by a young person are meaningful.

I went to Penn State, where stuff like that is the norm.
I was in the minority because I didn't drink or party, it changed a bit once I turned 21 since it was legal and all. Still, not a big deal. To each his own, but you must be careful. Getting caught twice is not good.

 

[ES2]

I went to Penn State, where stuff like that is the norm.
I was in the minority because I didn't drink or party, it changed a bit once I turned 21 since it was legal and all. Still, not a big deal. To each his own, but you must be careful. Getting caught twice is not good.

I think a lot of people are overlooking how easy it is to get an alcohol IA. At least at my school, being in a room with a shot glass was grounds to be written up for alcohol, and it happened several times to people in my dorms.

OP, I may not have a whole lot of experience, but with those stats, I doubt anything with alcohol will affect your chances of matriculating somewhere.

 

[ciestar]

I think a lot of people are overlooking how easy it is to get an alcohol IA. At least at my school, being in a room with a shot glass was grounds to be written up for alcohol, and it happened several times to people in my dorms.

OP, I may not have a whole lot of experience, but with those stats, I doubt anything with alcohol will affect your chances of matriculating somewhere.

That happened to a friend of mine.. Just arrived at a party where there was drinking and got an underage just for being there. Granted, he was planning on drinking but that's not the point, guilt by association really does exist

 

[TriagePreMed]

I think a lot of people are overlooking how easy it is to get an alcohol IA. At least at my school, being in a room with a shot glass was grounds to be written up for alcohol, and it happened several times to people in my dorms.

OP, I may not have a whole lot of experience, but with those stats, I doubt anything with alcohol will affect your chances of matriculating somewhere.

Exactly. I don't know what people think an alcohol IA is. Just having had a sip of a beer is already grounds for an IA. What do you think you have to do to get an alcohol IA? Drink a 24 pack and then run naked into the dean's office while she's teleconferencing to CNN?

 

[Leoz M Jiliums]

What kind of chance does a person with Good grades, but weak/average ECs have to get into a top 10 school? I don't have as many ECs as most people, but I've done mine for 5+ years each.

 

[mcloaf]

Exactly. I don't know what people think an alcohol IA is. Just having had a sip of a beer is already grounds for an IA. What do you think you have to do to get an alcohol IA? Drink a 24 pack and then run naked into the dean's office while she's teleconferencing to CNN?

You guys are sort of missing the point. I can't speak for everybody else in this thread, but I'm well aware that often they can be nothing more than wrong place wrong time situations. Boohoo. From an admissions standpoint that doesn't get you off the hook. When you've got hundreds of applicants for every seat in your medical school class you're looking for any potential reason to thin the herd, and something that would cause you to question an applicant's judgment is a good place to start. Sure, maybe you just got unlucky and ended up with an IA, but either way people will prefer the similarly qualified applicant without the potential judgment issues.

I don't think a single alcohol related IA would keep anybody who was otherwise qualified out of medical school, but it's not going to be ignored either. Even if your interviewers don't worry it, about it's still a good reason to not offer an interview in the first place, or to toss you on the waitlist if you might otherwise be admitted.


And again, in the case of multiple IA's things shift much more since you can no longer claim it was a one-time affair, you learned your lesson, etc.

What kind of chance does a person with Good grades, but weak/average ECs have to get into a top 10 school? I don't have as many ECs as most people, but I've done mine for 5+ years each.

It would be best to start your own thread rather than derailing this one, where you can lay out your situation fully and get better feedback. But since you asked, weak/average ECs and good grades alone are unlikely to cut it.

 

[inycepoo]

Exactly. I don't know what people think an alcohol IA is. Just having had a sip of a beer is already grounds for an IA. What do you think you have to do to get an alcohol IA? Drink a 24 pack and then run naked into the dean's office while she's teleconferencing to CNN?

Depends on the school, so those generalizations don't exactly hold true at a lot of place.

At my college and those like mine, you would have to run naked on the streets to score an IA. They're hard to come by, so to me an IA is really bad.

This is obviously not so at other colleges; I just wanted to point out that gross generalizations are this matter aren't as accurate as you'd believe.

 

[Leoz M Jiliums]

It would be best to start your own thread rather than derailing this one, where you can lay out your situation fully and get better feedback. But since you asked, weak/average ECs and good grades alone are unlikely to cut it.

I would, but I'm afraid of the ****storm I'd get for making a WAMC titled "3.9+,40+, can I getz the Harvard."

 

[inycepoo]

I would, but I'm afraid of the ****storm I'd get for making a WAMC titled "3.9+,40+, can I getz the Harvard."

No, if you bring up the fact that you have major lacking in your ECs (which it seems like it, sorry man), you will get good responses. Include your school list.

Also, do you have a legitimate reason for wanting to attend a top 20? It doesn't seem like you enjoy research all that much with only summer stints.

 

[ChemEngMD]

I would, but I'm afraid of the ****storm I'd get for making a WAMC titled "3.9+,40+, can I getz the Harvard."

Quote from the dean of admissions at a top 10 school:

"For every person with a 40 on the MCAT, there are 20 more just like them. We want people who are unique and fit our mission and community."

Most top 20 schools want: unique individual story, leadership experience, research experience, and a certain X factor that shows that you have what it takes to be successful and eventually be an asset to their school.

They want to turn out physicians who are going to be leaders in their fields and add additional clout and prestige to the school. Harvard wants future surgeon generals, heads of the WHO, top healthcare advocates, and major researchers. Having a high GPA and MCAT doesn't necessarily spell that out...they can be part of the equation, but you need those other factors (shown through your ECs) to really be competitive at these schools.

Not to mention that all the top 20 schools are vying for a lot of the same students...those of us who have had early top 20 interviews have been running into the same people at the interviews...so if you're weeded out at some, you'll likely be weeded out by many because a lot of them are looking for the same types of people.

 

[Leoz M Jiliums]

.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Depends on the school, so those generalizations don't exactly hold true at a lot of place.

At my college and those like mine, you would have to run naked on the streets to score an IA. They're hard to come by, so to me an IA is really bad.

This is obviously not so at other colleges; I just wanted to point out that gross generalizations are this matter aren't as accurate as you'd believe.

God, you're really becoming one of the most frustrating people on these forums. It seems your existence relies on you trying to be right on everything. Obviously we are speaking in general terms on these forums, and since they ask to explain your IA, it is only expected that something where you go around naked on the streets would be evaluated more harshly. The point being discussed is that most of the time alcohol IA is just bs and even "repeat offenses" are bs too. I'm glad I never got caught drinking because I'd hate to have uptight people act holier-than-thou and judge me over a few beers. Same with pot if we want to extend the argument.

 

[inycepoo]

God, you're really becoming one of the most frustrating people on these forums. It seems your existence relies on you trying to be right on everything. Obviously we are speaking in general terms on these forums, and since they ask to explain your IA, it is only expected that something where you go around naked on the streets would be evaluated more harshly. The point being discussed is that most of the time alcohol IA is just bs and even "repeat offenses" are bs too. I'm glad I never got caught drinking because I'd hate to have uptight people act holier-than-thou and judge me over a few beers. Same with pot if we want to extend the argument.

Can you read? Did I say you were wrong and I'm right? Bringing in another perspective on a forum (a place where discussion and opinions are thrown around) shows that I want to be right on everything? Good luck in life with those reasoning skills...

In any case, breaking the law is breaking the law. Doesn't matter if it's booze, weed, or coke. Would possessing and shooting heroine be any different than underage drinking if it were just as "not dangerous"? Is that how values run these days?

Just because something is widespread and not as harmful as other banned substances doesn't mean it's right to act like the law says otherwise. Underage drinking should be written up and taken seriously for such this reason. Those who don't do it aren't "holier" than those who don't; they're just more respectful of the law than others, and that has potential to speak a lot about their character, which I guess is why adcoms and employers still care about IAs to this day.

 

[IlDestriero]

I think you'll be fine. If your goal was a major research university you might have more trouble than you think.

 

[LizzyM]

Mine is just one school but I'm pretty sure we aren't too worried about alcohol IAs. They never play into the decision to waitlist or decline if the applicant has been granted an interview.

The "law" is applied unevenly from school to school so it would be unjust to be hard on students from strict schools knowing that many other applicants were equally guilty but weren't written up. Furthermore, this is a law that didn't exist when many of us were in college and we really don't take a hard line against campus alcohol (many college presidents favor a change in the law, btw) although from a health and safety perspective, I can see the value. On the other hand, when I was in college, we didn't have to "pre-game" because the party we'd be attending would be dry, we often drank in supervised settings where a bartender or waitress was trained to cut of patrons who had been overserved, and just the cost of alcohol kept our consumption in check.

 

[TriagePreMed]

In any case, breaking the law is breaking the law. Doesn't matter if it's booze, weed, or coke. Would possessing and shooting heroine be any different than underage drinking if it were just as "not dangerous"? Is that how values run these days?

You've entered the point of true ridiculousness. Thank god you're not a judge or you'd give the same sentencing to a rapist as you do a teenager jaywalking. Hell, you'd probably put them in the same cell.

 

[inycepoo]

You've entered the point of true ridiculousness. Thank god you're not a judge or you'd give the same sentencing to a rapist as you do a teenager jaywalking. Hell, you'd probably put them in the same cell.

*ignores questions asked*

*brings up two straw mans*

*feels accomplished/justified*

Pathetic.

 

[darkjedi]

this thread has gotten a bit out of hand

 

[aspiring20]

OP, what did the school require you to do for those IAs? take a class? put on probation?

 

[yankeefan812]

I think the important thing to remember is being upfront about your IA and how you explain it. For example, my freshman year I received two alcohol related IA's, one for simply being in a room with a shot glass and another non-academic probation as I was sent to the hospital from campus. My reasoning - after seemingly being unable to hold in beer I went home and tested positive for Celiac sprue, a disease that runs in my family. Needless to say no more beer for me. I know my situation is unique but just remember IA's won't kill you, especially if you're upfront and honest with your explanation.

 

[aspiring20]

I think the important thing to remember is being upfront about your IA and how you explain it. For example, my freshman year I received two alcohol related IA's, one for simply being in a room with a shot glass and another non-academic probation as I was sent to the hospital from campus. My reasoning - after seemingly being unable to hold in beer I went home and tested positive for Celiac sprue, a disease that runs in my family. Needless to say no more beer for me. I know my situation is unique but just remember IA's won't kill you, especially if you're upfront and honest with your explanation.

are you applying this cycle? if so, good luck!

 

[yankeefan812]

are you applying this cycle? if so, good luck!

I am, thanks!