Accused of cheating!

[chigirl78]

Just a thought...
I attended a school with an honor code and some of my classmates were cheating (rather obviously). When some friends and I confronted the prof., he told us that all he could do was keep an eye on the suspected cheaters. We got into a long conversation about litigation against instructors and how it is now virtually impossible for people to be failed/expelled for cheating without solid evidence.

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[southerndoc]

You know what... this thread is actually VERY BENEFICIAL for future undergrad and med students as well as others.... it is a warning for others not to even attempt to cheat, sometimes its better to fail a test/exam then go through all this hassle....

NOW with that said... I'm not saying that monet cheated.... I hope that it is a big misunderstanding and that you're exonerated.... good luck buddy

One shouldn't cheat based on morals, not based on whether they could get caught.

I wish monet the best of luck. I wonder what evidence they have to support their claim. Please do keep us informed of the committee's decision.

 

[MustafaMond]

I don't get this. They must have some compelling evidence to support her contention that you were cheating. Suspicion is not enough. Without evidence, they wouldn't hold an inquiry. Something is wrong here. There has to be something to back up her claim, if not it would have never gotten to this point. But, as you say, everyone next to you has a different exam. So, I don't get it. What could it be?

Sounds like there is something else going on, that has not been posted.
Monet must have been acting reaallly suspicious (ADD or not) to get called to a DC without any proof.

Monet, they probably have some proof... I would advise you to DENY EVERYTHING!

And if you did cheat for real (my suspicion) dont post it here. They could be reading this.

 

[SolidGold]

Yes, there are student representatives on the committee. Why?

I always think that these types of committees are more fair if there are students involved, thats all.

 

[Vincristine]

Monet, I re-read this thred twice thinking I had missed a post, but looks like not. So there was a disciplinary committee held without you ever giving any sort of statement or telling you specifically what this proctor is alledging you did? This sounds rediculous unless there is clear-cut evidence that you did something wrong. If this committee met already, I think you should certainly speak to someone (not a student, but a dean, or administrator) about what you are being acused of. What are they doing now -- Deciding on a punishment before you even know the story?

 

[ocean11]

Just a thought...
I attended a school with an honor code and some of my classmates were cheating (rather obviously). When some friends and I confronted the prof., he told us that all he could do was keep an eye on the suspected cheaters. We got into a long conversation about litigation against instructors and how it is now virtually impossible for people to be failed/expelled for cheating without solid evidence.

Southerndoc I agree cheating is wrong based on morals...

chigirl78... why would you tattle tale to the prof?!? why not confront the student/s yourself instead of getting them into trouble behind their backs?!?

 

[monet]

To clear things up, there was only one test, not duplicates.
The proctor submitted an accusation that I was looking around the room, at someone's paper, ect. The committe met to see if there was any "good" evidence. That is all I know for now.
I am sure I will have to go meet with someone about this, which is fine with me. The sooner the better!

 

[JRod]

Isn't is your word against hers? I don't think you will get a mark on your record, probably just a warning!

 

[edmadison]

OMG, I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading.

My first piece of advice for you would be to take everything you read in here from anyone who isn't an attorney with a large grain of salt. For those of us who are attorneys, you should take our advice with an only slightly smaller grain of salt.

Find out everything you can about you school's disciplinary process. Is this in writing? It may be in the student handbook or posted on the web. Is yours a state school? If so, you are protected by due process. They must give you so sort of hearing before taking action. If the school is private, the requirements are likely less. Finally do nothing until you talk to an attorney. Don't worry about the money, its worth it -- we're talking about your career. Find one who specializes in this sort of stuff. You should be able to get referrals, general practice attorneys know who the specialists are. Be carefull with the school's attorney because this person's client is probably the institution that is accusing you. Do not confront anyone, don't tape any conversations without consent (this is illegal in many jurisdictions). Wait for the advice of a qualified individual before acting.

It's probably OK to wait until you here from the committee to go further. They may determine there is not enough evidence and thus you'll not need to go further.

Good luck and don't take advice from people who don't know what they're talking about,

Ed

 

[Seaglass]

Good luck and don't take advice from people who don't know what they're talking about

Always good advice . . . assuming you know what you're talking about.

C

 

[SolidGold]

The proctor submitted an accusation that I was looking around the room, at someone's paper, ect.

So it's a proctor that is accusing you and not one of your classmates? That changes things.

 

[stoic]

Though I'm no legal expert, it sounds like the school has absolutely no case. He said/she said a pretty useless argument. Again, I'm not an attorny, but usually in this type of situation it's best to keep your mouth shut and let the dean or whoever ask you questions. When you have to respond, keep it short and simple. EG:

Dean: "where you cheating?"
you: "no"
Dean: "then why did you look around?"
you: "looked to see what the hell was going on at the door next to me"


Please keep us updated.

Dave

 

[SaltySqueegee]

So any new news? This thread is almost like a 90210 soap drama.



I hope everything works out well,

-Tom

 

[monet]

Emadisson, you are an attorney? Thanks for the post. I actually ran into my academic dean at school today, she said she would be sending a letter by the end of the week in regards to the "issue."
If I were to speak to a lawyer where would I begin?

 

[Mr. Rosewater]

Emadisson, you are an attorney? Thanks for the post. I actually ran into my academic dean at school today, she said she would be sending a letter by the end of the week in regards to the "issue."
If I were to speak to a lawyer where would I begin?

wow, that's all she said to you?? I must say i would've probably gone crazy demanding information. anyway, my continued best wishes....

 

[SaltySqueegee]

Emadisson, you are an attorney? Thanks for the post. I actually ran into my academic dean at school today, she said she would be sending a letter by the end of the week in regards to the "issue."
If I were to speak to a lawyer where would I begin?

Damn, what is with the cold hearted nature of the faculty and administrative peoples that you are dealing with. You would think they would be somewhat understanding, and wanting to contact you to see what your take is on the whole situation; considering the fact that this is your reputation and a$$ on the line and all... hmmm...

Something just isn't adding up.

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

If I were you I would have set up a meeting to discuss the matter and tell them you are innocent. They may be taking your silence on the issue as an admission of guilt. You should set up a meeting with them.

 

[edmadison]

Emadisson, you are an attorney? Thanks for the post. I actually ran into my academic dean at school today, she said she would be sending a letter by the end of the week in regards to the "issue."
If I were to speak to a lawyer where would I begin?

Yes, I am an attorney. You could get a referral from many places. As I said before, general practice attorney's know the specialists. I think a good place to start is with the University Ombudsman. At my institution, they only deal with ADA type stuff, but yours is likely more broad. You should also see if there is a student legal assistance program, many school have these and they might help you or point you in the right direction. Does your school (or the undergrad) have an honor council? They may know some local attorneys. Is there a law school associated with your univeristy or in your town? If so you could find out studies educational law and they may be able to recommend someone outside the ivory tower. No luck yet?, find an older friend or family member in the area that knows a good general practice attorney. If all else fails, you can call the county bar association. They usually have a referral program -- but make sure the person they refer you too has some knowledge in the area.

Good luck,

Ed

 

[SaltySqueegee]

If I were you I would have set up a meeting to discuss the matter and tell them you are innocent. They may be taking your silence on the issue as an admission of guilt. You should set up a meeting with them.

I second this. If someone were to make an attack on my reputation, career, etc. I would make damn clear for them my stance, and would want to know what they are thinking and discussing in return. This whole quiet secretive meeting crap sounds like a secret society or some sort of conspiracy...

"... it wasn't the primary proctor... there was a secondary proctor on the grassy knoll. Damn it's a setup! Bail out, this test is a booby-trap, it's all gonna blow!"

 

[Kluver Bucy]

I had ten testes in two weeks.

No wonder you're thinking about contacting the informant: you've got a lot of balls!

Seriously, though, I'm sure the administration will give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[zoolander]

Saltysqueegy hit it- something's not adding up.

Do you know if your school is on any sort of mission against cheating and could be trying to make an example of you?

Something similar went down at our next-door business school a few years ago.

The administration wanted to tighten grade standards at a place perceived as "easy" by kicking out underperforming people... one guy fought tooth and nail and the other was mellow about it. You can probably guess which one got kicked out, and which one stayed w/out any mention on his record. Having ran into them both recently their career paths have been pretty divergent since then.

It sounds like you need to go on an early offensive here and show that you're serious about clearing your name to avoid long-term consequences.

Anyone know the legal angle on this?

 

[Purifyer]

When I was on my psychiatry run, my [young] consultant was a US grad who had just emigrated here. He told me that when he was in med school, 8 kids in his class were accussed/caught cheating in one episode. Four defended themselves, denied cheating but admitted they may have been 'looking around', four got attorneys and threatened the school with god knows what.

All those who defended themselves were expelled and nothing happened to the kids who hid behind their lawyers. Apparently

 

[gschl1234]

Bump. Any updates? Hang in there, Monet.

 

[Moose1]

Anything new with this? Where's the OP??
This is what keeps me coming back to SDN allo forums!

 

[Meritina]

Anyone who sits in the front seat or corner is subject to being distracted from all the paper shuffling when people turn their stuff and and feet stomping as they get out of the room. anytime i was placed in such a seat, i requested to move, and there were even times i got up in the middle of the exam and moved to a quiet seat.

that proctor was very inconsiderate to not realize the position you are in during an exam, even for someone who does not have ADD and is just a bit anxious (uhm, totally expected during an exam). i cannot imagine how difficult it must have been for you to sit in such a place with having ADD. I have had proctors tell me to keep my head down - give me a break, as if i'd trust anyone elses answers more than my own...

oh, i'm so sorry you are going through this. I hope it is resolved soon, keep us informed.

 

[mfleur]

I can't believe how hard core the proctors are at your schools. I've never heard anything out of any of our's. We even have breakfast set up outside of the hall and can get up and leave anytime we want. Maybe they are more laid-back because we are pass/no pass. Good luck to the OP!

 

[MustafaMond]

I know that you tend to trust someone from SDN, but has anyone thought that monet may be guilty?

I can't believe a provtor could just see something accidenatly. Monet's assertion of ADD in the original post also points towards fraud.
My hunch is that Monet DID cheat and will get a just punishment.

 

[idq1i]

chigirl78... why would you tattle tale to the prof?!? why not confront the student/s yourself instead of getting them into trouble behind their backs?!?

According to most honor codes, if you have witnessed someone cheating, it is your duty to report him

 

[southerndoc]

I know that you tend to trust someone from SDN, but has anyone thought that monet may be guilty?

I can't believe a provtor could just see something accidenatly. Monet's assertion of ADD in the original post also points towards fraud.
My hunch is that Monet DID cheat and will get a just punishment.

Why hasn't she posted anything in a while?

 

[stoic]

Hmm... this is interesting. I wonder if there is a reason Monet has posted in awhile? I hope she didn't get nailed with some bad news. And if she did, I hope it all works out in the end.

But I'd like to know (even though really I have no business knowing).

MONET!!!! UPDATE PLEASE!!!!

 

[hakksar]

According to most honor codes, if you have witnessed someone cheating, it is your duty to report him

Well actually all the honor codes that I am familiar with (Air Force Academy and University of Colorado School of Medicine) require you to confront the person you feel violated honor code within a certain time period. This is supposed to occur BEFORE you report the person to the honor council or any other group (ie proffs or deans office etc). This is to prevent plausible misunderstandings from becoming witch hunts.

 

[OTheHorror]

maybe she just made the whole thing up...

and got tired of keeping it up

 

[SolidGold]

AHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Where the hell are you Monet?

Don't tell me you made this crap up.

 

[Maple]

bump

 

[12R34Y]

well....if you look at her profile she has been posting on the opthomology section as recently as a couple of days ago and quite frequently.

obviously must have been made up.

sh'e moved to another forum.

 

[OTheHorror]

we've been had

 

[mig26x]

Punk'ed???

 

[SaltySqueegee]

It was a good drama while it lasted...

 

[Maple]

Why would you assume that Monet's story was a hoax. She isn't obligated to post updates here. I would have liked to know if things turned out ok for her, but if she'd rahter not say then, that's fine too.

 

[MoosePilot]

Anyone gone out on a limb and PM'd her to see how she's doing lately? I know it's a wild idea, but if you're really concerned, I'd recommend it.

 

[cooldreams]

possibility 1) she was expelled and is now trying to do something eye related... (perhaps research on that lazy-eye-when-you-are-taking-a-test syndrome)...

possibility 2) psych major wanting to study the extent of cheating in various institutions of higher learning, (hence now the reason to have moved on because you all BORED HER TO DEATH with no more juicy news)

possibility 3) med skoo flunky/wannabe/hater that just wanted to make fun of the naivity of the typical medical student and attempted to pluck a chord close to home....

possibility 4)

 

[azzarah]

I believe her.
Even if she did cheat, she must have been through so much stress that she wouldn't do it ever again any way.
We all make mistakes sometimes. It's not my place to judge her.

 

[MustafaMond]

(perhaps research on that lazy-eye-when-you-are-taking-a-test syndrome:

 

[45408]

In most states, it's legal to tape the conversation as long as one person knows about it (as in you). Why would it be illegal? That's like saying you can't record your IMs or e-mails with other people.

 

[Eyecon82]

Yeah, that way you can escalate things to a felony. Good thinking there!

uhmm...no it all depends on what state you are from...... almost all states, except for a few are what they call 1 party consent states. Meaning, if one party consents to recording a conversation, it's legal.

As for not contacting the accuser, I would do it because it shows you are innocent if you are confronting the accuser and i would definetly record it not only to perhaps catch the accuser trip on a lie, but in order to protect yourself incase she says you threatened her or some other absurd lie

---------------------
The federal law makes it unlawful to record telephone conversations except in one party consent cases which permit one party consent recording by state law. What that means is a person can record their own telephone conversations without the knowledge or consent of the other party in those states that allow one party consent.


It's important to understand the difference between what has become known as one party consent and two party or all party consent. One party consent simply means that one party to the conversation must have knowledge and give consent to the recording. Two party or all party consent means that every party to the conversation must have knowledge and give consent to the recording.
----------------------
Alabama: One Party <[email protected]>
Alaska: One party <[email protected]>
Arizona: One Party <[email protected] (Matthew Cummings)> <[email protected]>
Arizona: No party consent for person owning telephone service. <[email protected]>
Arkansas: One Party <[email protected]>
California: Two Party <[email protected]> (3)
Colorado: One party <PZenner104>
Connecticut Two Party <[email protected]> (STEVE FREDERICKSEN) (9)
Delaware: Two Party <[email protected]> E. Moreland
District Of Columbia One Party <[email protected]>
Florida: Two Party <[email protected]>
Georgia One Party <[email protected] (Bob Griggs)> (8.)
Hawaii ::One Party <[email protected]>
Idaho: One Party <[email protected]>
Illinois One Party <[email protected] (Bob Hrodey)> (1.)
Indiana One Party <[email protected]> (5)
Iowa One Party <[email protected]>
Kansas: One Party <[email protected]>
Kentucky One party <[email protected]>
Louisiana One Party <[email protected] (Patrick Adams)> <[email protected]>
Maine: One Party <[email protected]> E. Moreland
Massachusetts Two Party <[email protected]> (11.)
Maryland Two Party <[email protected]> (10.)
Michigan One party <[email protected]> < [email protected]>
Minnesota One Party <[email protected]>
Mississippi One Party <[email protected]> (ron crowe)
Missouri One Party <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Minnesota One Party <[email protected]>
Montana Two-party <[email protected]> (Warren Levicoff) (12.)
Nebraska One Party <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Nevada: One Party <[email protected]> E. Moreland
New Hampshire Two Party <[email protected]> (13.)
New Jersey One Party <[email protected]>
New Mexico: One Party <[email protected]>
New York One Party <[email protected]><[email protected]> (6)
North Carolinia One Party <[email protected]>
North Dakota One Party <[email protected]>
Oklahoma: One Party <[email protected]>
Oregon One Party <[email protected]> <[email protected] (Phil Agrue)> (14.)
Ohio One Party <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Pennsylvania Two Party <[email protected]> (15.) <[email protected]> (7) <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Rhode Island: One Party <[email protected]> E. Moreland
South Carolina One Party <[email protected]>
South Dakota: One Party <[email protected]>
Tennessee One Party <[email protected]> (ron crowe)
Texas One Party <[email protected]>
Utah One Party <[email protected]>
Vermont One Party <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Virginia One Party <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
West Virginia: One Party <[email protected]>
Washington Two Party <[email protected]>(4)
Wisconsin One Party (but only two admissable)<[email protected]> <[email protected] (Bob Hrodey)> (2)
Wyoming: One Party <[email protected]>

 

[stinkycheese]

If you read her recent posts, she is looking to transfer, so I'm assuming something didn't go very well at her meeting.

 

[Heather Noelle]

That made me smile too!

But back to the topic....Good luck with this. I'm sure it will all work out once you've presented your case. I'm on the honor committee at my school, and it's innocent till proven guilty. Your words mean just as much as the others. Good luck with this! You have my thoughts!

 

[omores]

If you read her recent posts, she is looking to transfer, so I'm assuming something didn't go very well at her meeting.

Recent posts? The only recent ones I saw were about here eyeglass prescription. Where were they, and what did they say?

And Sledge, way to hijack the statistics thread! Hasn't worked yet, alas.

 

[misyel]

Recent posts? The only recent ones I saw were about here eyeglass prescription. Where were they, and what did they say?

And Sledge, way to hijack the statistics thread! Hasn't worked yet, alas.

It's so sad, I'm hung up on this drama too... where can I find the recent postings? I've searched on SDN, and only found the presciption glasses posting!!! =)

 

[MustafaMond]

Does anyone know of any examples when a statistical anaylysis can be wrong. Like winning the lottery, basically any times when the odds are really high but proven to be wrong.

From a lounge post 3 days ago.
I bet someone analysed that the odds were high that she cheated.