Additional remuneration for fellowship?

[dEviantrAdiologist]

Hey all,

I am finishing up radiology residency this year and will be going on to do a fellowship prior to HPSP payback. Will I be eligible for extra pay because of this fellowship or will I just get paid as a BC radiologist when I go active?

Thanks a lot for your help!

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[delicatefade]

I can't answer your question but have one of my own.

How many more years does this add to your payback for HPSP?

 

[USAFGMODOC]

I am in currently in rads residency and unfortunately there is NOT any extra pay for your fellowship skills...

I am pondering fellowship after residency vs. finishing my last 4 years and retiring and then doing fellowship......

 

[RichL025]

On my sub-i's, I was told that each year of fellowship incurs an additional two years of service obligation. Nice for Ortho (1y fellowships), but I'm guessing it's not so nice for the IM subspecialty folks.

No, that's not quite correct-

Each year of fellowship incurs an extra one year of commitment... with a minimum additional obligation of two years.

Examples:
one year fellowship = two year extra commitment

two year fellowship = two year extra commitment

three year fellowship = three year extra commitment

 

[dEviantrAdiologist]

I can't answer your question but have one of my own.

How many more years does this add to your payback for HPSP?

I (fortuitously) was fully deferred for both residency AND fellowship (NADDS) so I only owe my four year medical school HPSP commitment. It would've been nice to get a few extra bucks for doing a fellowship... oh well.

 

[dEviantrAdiologist]

I am in currently in rads residency and unfortunately there is NOT any extra pay for your fellowship skills...

I am pondering fellowship after residency vs. finishing my last 4 years and retiring and then doing fellowship......

I was faced with the same decision and decided to try for a fellowship before going active purely for the fact that I would be less likely to do a fellowship after/during my payback. The only problem with this scenario is you MUST go to the preselection board two years prior to finishing residency, otherwise your fellowship options can be limited (unfilled spots after the conventional fellowship match).

 

[Dr. Dukes]

Sorry for the (slight) hijack...
Does anyone know how applying for Army surgical fellowships works. I know I will go from med school to a six year surgical residency, but is it possible to go straight to fellowship, or will I spend time as a general surgeon with a unit somewhere? If this is the case (time as a general surgeon) are there any broad timelines for getting back into training (3 years as a surgeon, 4, 5,...17)? I realize it changes on "the needs of the Army" but even a generalization would be great.
Thanks a lot.

 

[RichL025]

Right now "current policy" is for all graduating general surgeons to serve a "utilization tour" (1-3 yr) before fellowship - but this is not rigidly enforced. You apply in your fourth year of residency if you wish to apply for a civilian fellowship (I think you can get military fellowships by applying in your 5th year).

So, to directly answer your question - you stand a chance of getting permission for a fellowship right out of residency, and if you don;t get permission to apply for a fellowship, you can do as little as a 1-year utilization tour before re-applying.

 

[NavyFP]

No, that's not quite correct-

Each year of fellowship incurs an extra one year of commitment... with a minimum additional obligation of two years.

Examples:
one year fellowship = two year extra commitment

two year fellowship = two year extra commitment

three year fellowship = three year extra commitment

The two year commitment for a one year fellowship only applies if you have no remaining med school/residency time. If you have additional time owed, it is year for year, so a one year fellowship has one ADDITIONAL year of commitment to be served consecutively with other time owed.

 

[RichL025]

The two year commitment for a one year fellowship only applies if you have no remaining med school/residency time. If you have additional time owed, it is year for year, so a one year fellowship has one ADDITIONAL year of commitment to be served consecutively with other time owed.

Perhaps for the Navy, but not for the army.

This issue just came up among some fellowship trained surgeons at my program...

 

[Dr. Dukes]

Perhaps for the Navy, but not for the army.

This issue just came up among some fellowship trained surgeons at my program...

What happened?

 

[RichL025]

There was some ambiguity in the published guidelines for fellowship payback a few years ago, to the point where surgeons were led to believe that if they only did a one-year fellowship, they would only incur an extra year ADSO. It was either last year or the year before where surgeons started discovering that when the end of their commitments were being reported to them, it was a year longer. Who the hell would be happy if they suddenly find out they owe an extra year? Even if they would have been OK with that extra year in the first place...

There were actually a few people who had already gotten off active duty when the army tried to notify them they still had a year left <g>. Figure the odds if they ran right back to square that away <g>.

Anyway, of course there was alot of hard feelings (rightly so) about this - to clear up the confusion, AMEDD sent out notices last year clarifying the ADSO obligation for fellowships in plain language so there would be no future confusion - the "plan language" version was what I descrided above.

 

[Dr. Dukes]

Right now "current policy" is for all graduating general surgeons to serve a "utilization tour" (1-3 yr) before fellowship - but this is not rigidly enforced. You apply in your fourth year of residency if you wish to apply for a civilian fellowship (I think you can get military fellowships by applying in your 5th year).

So, to directly answer your question - you stand a chance of getting permission for a fellowship right out of residency, and if you don;t get permission to apply for a fellowship, you can do as little as a 1-year utilization tour before re-applying.

How hard is it to get permission to apply for a fellowship? Does the Army look at its list of AD docs and say "we already have 4 vascular trained surgeons, so we don't need any more for X years, so you're SOL" or is it more an issue of getting out of your spot as a general surgeon and getting a replacement?
Thanks!