Addressing Grade V Mobilizations

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Jarrodmac10

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After graduation I discovered one of the students in my undergraduate cohort was attending a DC program in Oregon. I recently spoke with him regarding the manipulation bill in WA and he had some interesting comments regarding the aforementioned and scope of practice. Below are a couple of his quotes...

"To say that there aren't some DC's out there that shouldn't be calling themselves Physical Therapists (actually, the proper term for a Chiro practicing PT in WA state is Physiotherapy- not a Physical Therapist) is absolutely true"

- Does anyone else agree that DCs should not be promoting "physical therapy" in their clinic?

"D.C. provides training to be a Primary Care Physician, it includes nutrition, pathology, simple surgery, physical therapy, manipulation, and even minor pharmacology."

- Baffled by this quote regarding PT.

My point is not to stir up the stupid turf war between PTs and DCs, but to ask fellow PTs or SPTs how to address this guy and educate him on the topic. It frustrates the hell out of me, especially since DCs are lobbying so hard to prevent the spinal manipulation bill in WA to be passed. I've tried showing him the articles via APTA, but then he responds by sending me his curriculum and informs me that it mirrors traditional MD programs, and therefore they are more qualified to treat every patient with every illness. Why do they think they can prescribe PT services?

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After graduation I discovered one of the students in my undergraduate cohort was attending a DC program in Oregon. I recently spoke with him regarding the manipulation bill in WA and he had some interesting comments regarding the aforementioned and scope of practice. Below are a couple of his quotes...

"To say that there aren't some DC's out there that shouldn't be calling themselves Physical Therapists (actually, the proper term for a Chiro practicing PT in WA state is Physiotherapy- not a Physical Therapist) is absolutely true"

- Does anyone else agree that DCs should not be promoting "physical therapy" in their clinic?

"D.C. provides training to be a Primary Care Physician, it includes nutrition, pathology, simple surgery, physical therapy, manipulation, and even minor pharmacology."

- Baffled by this quote regarding PT.

My point is not to stir up the stupid turf war between PTs and DCs, but to ask fellow PTs or SPTs how to address this guy and educate him on the topic. It frustrates the hell out of me, especially since DCs are lobbying so hard to prevent the spinal manipulation bill in WA to be passed. I've tried showing him the articles via APTA, but then he responds by sending me his curriculum and informs me that it mirrors traditional MD programs, and therefore they are more qualified to treat every patient with every illness. Why do they think they can prescribe PT services?

Jarrodmac,

The idea that manipulation is questioned as being within the scope of a physical therapist and that chiropractors are physician's trained in pathology, physiotherapy, minor surgery and pharmacology is laughable at best.

Tell your friend to face the facts, i.e. DC school is easy to get into, they're not trained by PT's, RD's or pathologists, they contribute little to nothing to research, high loan default rate, not mainstream in training or practice. Chiropractors are right on par with naturopathic doctors as being physician's.
 
Jarrodmac,

The idea that manipulation is questioned as being within the scope of a physical therapist and that chiropractors are physician's trained in pathology, physiotherapy, minor surgery and pharmacology is laughable at best.

Tell your friend to face the facts, i.e. DC school is easy to get into, they're not trained by PT's, RD's or pathologists, they contribute little to nothing to research, high loan default rate, not mainstream in training or practice. Chiropractors are right on par with naturopathic doctors as being physician's.

I agree, fiveoboy. I almost showed him the entrance statistics of current DPT programs compared to DC schools, but didn't want him to feel belittled or below me. His mentality, along with many other DCs and DC students are warped into thinking they can treat CHF to Ulcerative Colitis... makes no sense to me.
 
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Every health care profession does this. I have a pharmacist friend and he tells me how they're trying to widen their scope of practice as well (which makes sense in some ways). PTs want direct access. DCs want physical therapy. We're all fighting for a bigger piece of the pie. The question is who deserves it?
Side note, the law here says DCs can practice physical therapy, but I'm not sure if they can bill for it. Kind of how PTs here have direct access but insurance still requires a script. Can they bill for PT there?
 
Every health care profession does this. I have a pharmacist friend and he tells me how they're trying to widen their scope of practice as well (which makes sense in some ways). PTs want direct access. DCs want physical therapy. We're all fighting for a bigger piece of the pie. The question is who deserves it?
Side note, the law here says DCs can practice physical therapy, but I'm not sure if they can bill for it. Kind of how PTs here have direct access but insurance still requires a script. Can they bill for PT there?

There's a difference between expanding one's scope of practice and claiming to practice another profession. On a continuum of legitimacy they're on exact opposite sides. The fact is chiropractors want to float on a profession like physical therapy as some modality they can provide on the side or something. No training, no contribution to the profession, misleading advertising with regard to physical therapy. Reeks of quackery if you ask me.
 
OP,
Respond by introducing your SDC friend to EBM and to such sites as Cochran.org. Then explain their lack of. :D

We also have pathology and pharmacology in our curriculum.

From my own experience:
I actually tried to give DCs the benefit of the doubt. But when my daughter was born I was approached by a DC offering 'infant spinal correction' services. I didn't even bother to inquire the details. "No thanks ma'am".

There is no evidence that spinal corrections help you get over your flu. The MMR is safe and the research the DCs keep quoting was defunked and the data was proven to be made up. The DC was trying to lecture me on this matter during my daughter's first pediatrician visit. "Don't listen to the pediatrician, don't immunize, blah blah blah". If I shouldn't listen to the pediatrician, then why were you there, lady?!

Probably not representative of all DCs but what a first impression.
 
Every health care profession does this. I have a pharmacist friend and he tells me how they're trying to widen their scope of practice as well (which makes sense in some ways). PTs want direct access. DCs want physical therapy. We're all fighting for a bigger piece of the pie. The question is who deserves it?
Side note, the law here says DCs can practice physical therapy, but I'm not sure if they can bill for it. Kind of how PTs here have direct access but insurance still requires a script. Can they bill for PT there?

They cannot bill or advertise physical therapy in the state of WA.
 
OP,
Respond by introducing your SDC friend to EBM and to such sites as Cochran.org. Then explain their lack of. :D

We also have pathology and pharmacology in our curriculum.

From my own experience:
I actually tried to give DCs the benefit of the doubt. But when my daughter was born I was approached by a DC offering 'infant spinal correction' services. I didn't even bother to inquire the details. "No thanks ma'am".

There is no evidence that spinal corrections help you get over your flu. The MMR is safe and the research the DCs keep quoting was defunked and the data was proven to be made up. The DC was trying to lecture me on this matter during my daughter's first pediatrician visit. "Don't listen to the pediatrician, don't immunize, blah blah blah". If I shouldn't listen to the pediatrician, then why were you there, lady?!

Probably not representative of all DCs but what a first impression.

I actually came across a DC offering "puppy/animal adjustments". I tried really hard not to judge. As far as the SDC goes, he'll just respond by saying how DCs use EBM in every approach. Here's another story, I told my fiancé's Uncle (DC) that I just completed my first semester of DPT school... He respond by telling me that I can now be one's primary Doctor. I responded by saying that nobody should be a primary, other than a physician and maybe a DNP.
 
I actually came across a DC offering "puppy/animal adjustments". I tried really hard not to judge. As far as the SDC goes, he'll just respond by saying how DCs use EBM in every approach. Here's another story, I told my fiancé's Uncle (DC) that I just completed my first semester of DPT school... He respond by telling me that I can now be one's primary Doctor. I responded by saying that nobody should be a primary, other than a physician and maybe a DNP.

How in the world can anyone be a primary anything in any field with only 1 semester of schooling? I wonder if that's what they teach in chiropractic school or if they're just that dumb to not know better. As far as I know, a primary care doctor means an MD/DO who has completed a family medicine residency (that means graduated medical school and then completed the residency in full). Not attended the first class of medical school and then you're a neurosurgeon. So dumb it's beyond me.
 
I actually came across a DC offering "puppy/animal adjustments". I tried really hard not to judge. As far as the SDC goes, he'll just respond by saying how DCs use EBM in every approach. Here's another story, I told my fiancé's Uncle (DC) that I just completed my first semester of DPT school... He respond by telling me that I can now be one's primary Doctor. I responded by saying that nobody should be a primary, other than a physician and maybe a DNP.

Perhaps he mistakenly thought that since you are in DPT school, not PT school, that you would have direct access to patients, which could in a way be thought of as 'primary' care. But if I understand correctly, being a DPT doesn't add any direct access privileges over a MSPT or BSPT (correct me if I'm wrong here).

Or perhaps you misunderstood him. I doubt he meant "Oh you're going to be a DPT? Heck, now you can treat strep throats and do gyno exams!".
 
They cannot bill or advertise physical therapy in the state of WA.

I think this is true in many (all?) states, as it should be. Physical therapy is physical therapy.

Now, can a chiro prescribe some exercises for a patient or utilize various modalities? Absolutely.
 
There's a difference between expanding one's scope of practice and claiming to practice another profession. On a continuum of legitimacy they're on exact opposite sides. The fact is chiropractors want to float on a profession like physical therapy as some modality they can provide on the side or something. No training, no contribution to the profession, misleading advertising with regard to physical therapy. Reeks of quackery if you ask me.

Float on PT? Chiropractors have been around for over 100 years. :confused:
 
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Perhaps he mistakenly thought that since you are in DPT school, not PT school, that you would have direct access to patients, which could in a way be thought of as 'primary' care. But if I understand correctly, being a DPT doesn't add any direct access privileges over a MSPT or BSPT (correct me if I'm wrong here).

Or perhaps you misunderstood him. I doubt he meant "Oh you're going to be a DPT? Heck, now you can treat strep throats and do gyno exams!".

Yes he thought that exactly, that I had the same scope as an MD. I think he thought I could do that because he believes his scope resembles an MD's, and that a Doctorate means I could treat any disease or illness presented to me.
 
Yes he thought that exactly, that I had the same scope as an MD. I think he thought I could do that because he believes his scope resembles an MD's, and that a Doctorate means I could treat any disease or illness presented to me.

I doubt it. But I don't know him like you do, so I'll take your word for it.
 
Float on PT? Chiropractors have been around for over 100 years. :confused:

When you claim to practice, provide, be board certified or licensed in physical therapy or physiotherapy when you're not a PT or physiotherapist, then you're floating on the profession of physical therapy. If chiropractic was around for 5 thousand years it would make no difference. Your colleagues masqeurade as being PT's as if it's some certificate they can get on a weekend and then make money, and try to make themselves look more legitimate. It's unprofessional, misleading quackery at its finest.
 
I think this is true in many (all?) states, as it should be. Physical therapy is physical therapy.

Now, can a chiro prescribe some exercises for a patient or utilize various modalities? Absolutely.

Tell your idiotic collegues that when they prescribe some exercises (likely instructed by some personal trainer who the chiropractor introduces as a PT), or some hot packs that it's not physical therapy or physiotherapy. It's called "exercise" or "a hot pack." And don't kid yourself thinking a chiropractor knows better than a PT with regard to exercise and disease/NMSK conditions.
 
Tell your idiotic collegues that when they prescribe some exercises (likely instructed by some personal trainer who the chiropractor introduces as a PT), or some hot packs that it's not physical therapy or physiotherapy. It's called "exercise" or "a hot pack." And don't kid yourself thinking a chiropractor knows better than a PT with regard to exercise and disease/NMSK conditions.

You missed your calling as a diplomat.
 
You missed your calling as a diplomat.

I refuse to show diplomacy toward a profession that insults mine with this type of behavior. Actions speak a lot louder than words. You would never see me claiming to practice another profession, how unprofessional and disrespectful. Perhaps you should make some real arguments instead of pretending that me calling your collegues idiots is some main talking point and then changing the subject -- this guy isn't a diplomat. Guess what, you profession claims to practice physical therapy! Wake up!
 
I refuse to show diplomacy toward a profession that insults mine with this type of behavior. Actions speak a lot louder than words. You would never see me claiming to practice another profession, how unprofessional and disrespectful. Perhaps you should make some real arguments instead of pretending that me calling your collegues idiots is some main talking point and then changing the subject -- this guy isn't a diplomat. Guess what, you profession claims to practice physical therapy! Wake up!

To be honest, my comment about diplomacy could apply to any of your posts that involve any other profession. And I'm not alone in that opinion.
 
I refuse to show diplomacy toward a profession that insults mine with this type of behavior. Actions speak a lot louder than words. You would never see me claiming to practice another profession, how unprofessional and disrespectful. Perhaps you should make some real arguments instead of pretending that me calling your collegues idiots is some main talking point and then changing the subject -- this guy isn't a diplomat. Guess what, you profession claims to practice physical therapy! Wake up!


It's sad that you don't ever seem to realize you're insulting your own profession with the vitriolic nature of all of your posts. There are many posters here who are early on in their years as a therapist and are impressionable. You could choose to demonstrate how to argue a point of view in a professional fashion, but you either don't understand how to, or you're not interested in being an effective advocate for your profession. You'd rather spit out venom in the form of angry words and ad hominem attacks.

Supposedly, you want more respect for your profession, but choose to interact in an unrespectable fashion.

Well, you haven't earned my respect with any of your posts here at SDN, but you've earned my pity. It must be hard and unsatisfying to be as angry as you apparently are.
 
Please detail your thoughts on the topics of this thread. I would really like to know how to make a strong point that will expose the issues above and also make it clear how unacceptable it is to:

imply one's a physical therapist/physiotherapist when you're not
imply physical therapy/physiotherapy are generic terms
make lofty claims of academic training

How can I be an effective advocate for my profession from your point of view? Please show me as I'm actually an impressionable physical therapist as well.

Sorry
 
It's sad that you don't ever seem to realize you're insulting your own profession with the vitriolic nature of all of your posts. There are many posters here who are early on in their years as a therapist and are impressionable. You could choose to demonstrate how to argue a point of view in a professional fashion, but you either don't understand how to, or you're not interested in being an effective advocate for your profession. You'd rather spit out venom in the form of angry words and ad hominem attacks.

Supposedly, you want more respect for your profession, but choose to interact in an unrespectable fashion.

Well, you haven't earned my respect with any of your posts here at SDN, but you've earned my pity. It must be hard and unsatisfying to be as angry as you apparently are.

:thumbup:
 
After graduation I discovered one of the students in my undergraduate cohort was attending a DC program in Oregon. I recently spoke with him regarding the manipulation bill in WA and he had some interesting comments regarding the aforementioned and scope of practice. Below are a couple of his quotes...

"To say that there aren't some DC's out there that shouldn't be calling themselves Physical Therapists (actually, the proper term for a Chiro practicing PT in WA state is Physiotherapy- not a Physical Therapist) is absolutely true"

- Does anyone else agree that DCs should not be promoting "physical therapy" in their clinic?

"D.C. provides training to be a Primary Care Physician, it includes nutrition, pathology, simple surgery, physical therapy, manipulation, and even minor pharmacology."

- Baffled by this quote regarding PT.

My point is not to stir up the stupid turf war between PTs and DCs, but to ask fellow PTs or SPTs how to address this guy and educate him on the topic. It frustrates the hell out of me, especially since DCs are lobbying so hard to prevent the spinal manipulation bill in WA to be passed. I've tried showing him the articles via APTA, but then he responds by sending me his curriculum and informs me that it mirrors traditional MD programs, and therefore they are more qualified to treat every patient with every illness. Why do they think they can prescribe PT services?

The first quote is unwieldy to me - but, I'm assumign he means that DC's should be able to call themselves Physiotherapists. Here are some points I would make to refute his argument:
1. I would wonder about a profession that wants to call themselves something other than what they have recieved their degree in. I know of no allpoathic or osteopathic physician who treats patients with musculoskeletal conditions and wants to be called a physical therapist or physiotherapist. Why do DCs want to be called something else? My guess is it has to do with the fact that PT arose from traditional allopathic medicine, and DCs want to be associated with that. It gives them some of the legitimacy that their profession has historically tended to lack.
2. What type of exposure do they get to "Physiotherapy?" IF we look at the Oregon Board of Chiropractic Examiners, it looks like they require a whopping 120 hours of "Additional Education." for their Physiotherapy Certification. Three weeks worth of physiotherapy and they have met the requirements for their physiotherapy certification. Seems to me that every PT that graduates now gets far more hours of exposure to spinal manipulation than the 120 that's required for chiro physio certification. So, if they want to argue they can "practice" physiotherapy, they better drop their arguement about PTs performing manipulation because we have way more exposure to HVLA than they do to physio.
3. The whole DC as PCP argument is beyond the pale. I'm not sure how to broach this tpoic with your friend, as it indicates he has become indoctrinated in a way of thinking that is beyond rational. The EBM DCs I know all agree that their scope of practice is limited to conservative treatment of musculoskeltal pain.
 
Float on PT? Chiropractors have been around for over 100 years. :confused:

I think what Five means it that many Chiropractors are craving some legitimacy, or something that portrays their profession in a light less susceptible to being viewed as quackery.

And, we PTs have been around longer:D
 
I think what Five means it that many Chiropractors are craving some legitimacy, or something that portrays their profession in a light less susceptible to being viewed as quackery.

And, we PTs have been around longer:D

If we are saying that there are DCs that call themselves PTs, I would have to disagree. I've never seen it. Maybe it has happened, I don't know. But after many years in chiro practice, I've never seen it. Now I know there have been cases of DCs stating that they offer "physical therapy", but as I said earlier I think this has been largely regulated against these days, as it should be.

Regarding the term "physiotherapy", my experience has been that this refers to things like electric stim, ultrasound, and other modalities. I guess it does kind of sound similar to "physical therapy", but I don't think the intention was to trick patients into thinking DCs were PTs.

I think most DCs like being DCs and don't wish to be PTs. And that's not a knock on PTs, lest anyone misunderstand my sentiments.
 
If we are saying that there are DCs that call themselves PTs, I would have to disagree. I've never seen it. Maybe it has happened, I don't know. But after many years in chiro practice, I've never seen it. Now I know there have been cases of DCs stating that they offer "physical therapy", but as I said earlier I think this has been largely regulated against these days, as it should be.

Regarding the term "physiotherapy", my experience has been that this refers to things like electric stim, ultrasound, and other modalities. I guess it does kind of sound similar to "physical therapy", but I don't think the intention was to trick patients into thinking DCs were PTs.

I think most DCs like being DCs and don't wish to be PTs. And that's not a knock on PTs, lest anyone misunderstand my sentiments.

Physiotherapy was not thought of out of thin air, it is synonymous with physical therapy. PT's are called physiotherapists in virtually all other countries as far as I know, coincidental? Doubt it. Physiotherapy is not a generic term to describe e-stim and ultrasound because chriopractors advertise it that way on websites. Where did that come from? Certainly not from the PT community or training. I think the intention of physiotherapy certificiation was to imply that DC's need 4 years of training to pop backs and necks and then 3 weeks of physiotherapy "training" to know everything a PT knows. Hell, the patient's PT's see on average are more complex, older, more medication, more comorbidities, etc. But, 3 weeks of training? That's not even taught by PT's? I don't think so. PT school doesn't have "chiropractic" as the class name for manipulation instruction.

Further, there's lots of DC's who break the laws that are already established, i.e. state laws that protect the terms physiotherapy and physical therapy as only under the state practice act of a PT. I could probably post a thousand examples if needed.
 
I think the intention of physiotherapy certificiation was to imply that DC's need 4 years of training to pop backs and necks and then 3 weeks of physiotherapy "training" to know everything a PT knows

facetguy - I don't usually do this, but I agree with Five on this one. I hear quotes from patients that seem to imply this very thing - that PT can be performed in a DC's office (without a PT present). Now, the DC may be saying something different and the patient may be hearing what they want to hear, but I personally think that there's some fire behind this smoke. I'm not sure if it is coincidental or not, but these patients seem to come from DCs that are from more of a straight approach and want to be their patient's PCP, sell them suppliments, etc.
 
facetguy - I don't usually do this, but I agree with Five on this one. I hear quotes from patients that seem to imply this very thing - that PT can be performed in a DC's office (without a PT present). Now, the DC may be saying something different and the patient may be hearing what they want to hear, but I personally think that there's some fire behind this smoke. I'm not sure if it is coincidental or not, but these patients seem to come from DCs that are from more of a straight approach and want to be their patient's PCP, sell them suppliments, etc.

We need to make a distinction, though, between patient thoughts/beliefs and a DC's actual claims. Given the overlap in PT and chiro practices, patients can easily miss the distinctions and conflate the two; in other words they may have a belief that there isn't much difference. That's a lot different than a DC telling a patient "Yes, I do physical therapy here without a PT present, and there's no difference between chiropractic and PT". I'm sure we can come up with examples of the DCs making claims they shouldn't, but I don't think these are as common as is being implied. If nothing else, state regulations are in place (although I really doubt that there are many DCs out there trying to fool their patients into thinking they are PTs).

On the point about patient's being unclear about provider roles, I from time to time have patients ask me if I do injections and/or prescribe medications! Patients aren't always as up on this stuff as we are, which can breed misunderstanding.
 
We need to make a distinction, though, between patient thoughts/beliefs and a DC's actual claims. Given the overlap in PT and chiro practices, patients can easily miss the distinctions and conflate the two; in other words they may have a belief that there isn't much difference. That's a lot different than a DC telling a patient "Yes, I do physical therapy here without a PT present, and there's no difference between chiropractic and PT". I'm sure we can come up with examples of the DCs making claims they shouldn't, but I don't think these are as common as is being implied. If nothing else, state regulations are in place (although I really doubt that there are many DCs out there trying to fool their patients into thinking they are PTs).

On the point about patient's being unclear about provider roles, I from time to time have patients ask me if I do injections and/or prescribe medications! Patients aren't always as up on this stuff as we are, which can breed misunderstanding.

I really don't know if there is much overlap between a chiropractor and a physical therapist in terms of actual practice patterns. We do both see NMSK conditions predominantly of course, but the way they're treated seems to be quite different.

I once interviewed at a chiropractors office, who owned a PT clinic adjacent to his. During the interview he was showing me around and at one point said "Oh here's where I do my physical therapy...I mean physiotherapy."

I have never seen or heard of a Chiropractor saying that PT and chiropractic is the same, I have seen chiropractic websites claim that physiotherapy and physical therapy are the same, and then the chiropractor going into how he/she is priviledged to provide these services. Not only this, but a picture of someone else providing it as if it can be pawned off. Look on craigslist for the chiropractic clinics advertising for a "PT tech" or "PTA to assist the doctor in physical therapy." Manipulation is important, exercise and education is not apparently. Didn't a PT study recently come out that proved that patient's are more likely to be injured doing exercise vs manual therapy while under the care of a physical therapist? Chiropractors don't practice medicine but they do practice chiropractic medicine. Chiropractors aren't chiropractic physiotherapists but they do practice physiotherapy. How does that make sense?

Patients are definitely not up on this stuff, so we should make things as unambiguously clear as possible, then they would be up on this stuff eventually. Do we really expect someone to understand things that do not make any sense?
 
I really don't know if there is much overlap between a chiropractor and a physical therapist in terms of actual practice patterns. We do both see NMSK conditions predominantly of course, but the way they're treated seems to be quite different.

I once interviewed at a chiropractors office, who owned a PT clinic adjacent to his. During the interview he was showing me around and at one point said "Oh here's where I do my physical therapy...I mean physiotherapy."

I have never seen or heard of a Chiropractor saying that PT and chiropractic is the same, I have seen chiropractic websites claim that physiotherapy and physical therapy are the same, and then the chiropractor going into how he/she is priviledged to provide these services. Not only this, but a picture of someone else providing it as if it can be pawned off. Look on craigslist for the chiropractic clinics advertising for a "PT tech" or "PTA to assist the doctor in physical therapy." Manipulation is important, exercise and education is not apparently. Didn't a PT study recently come out that proved that patient's are more likely to be injured doing exercise vs manual therapy while under the care of a physical therapist? Chiropractors don't practice medicine but they do practice chiropractic medicine. Chiropractors aren't chiropractic physiotherapists but they do practice physiotherapy. How does that make sense?

Patients are definitely not up on this stuff, so we should make things as unambiguously clear as possible, then they would be up on this stuff eventually. Do we really expect someone to understand things that do not make any sense?


The following is an example taken from a local Chiropractic website:

Will you suggest exercises or other things I can do?

Yes. We have a full physical rehab area that is staffed with 4 therapists and you will get exercises/stretches to do at home. However, we will not give them to you until you are about 25% better. While you may have heard to push through the pain and keep on exercising-- doing stretches or exercises too soon can slow down the progress of the condition and actually make it worse. It’s important to allow time for tissue regeneration, and the reduction of inflammation, before starting back to certain physical activities. Don’t worry we’ll give you lots to do, when we determine you’re ready.

-- Just to be sure, I checked with the facility, and there are no physical therapists on staff, only "rehab specialists," for which no credentials were provided. If this isn't misleading, I'm not sure what is.
 
The following is an example taken from a local Chiropractic website:

Will you suggest exercises or other things I can do?

Yes. We have a full physical rehab area that is staffed with 4 therapists and you will get exercises/stretches to do at home. However, we will not give them to you until you are about 25% better. While you may have heard to push through the pain and keep on exercising-- doing stretches or exercises too soon can slow down the progress of the condition and actually make it worse. It’s important to allow time for tissue regeneration, and the reduction of inflammation, before starting back to certain physical activities. Don’t worry we’ll give you lots to do, when we determine you’re ready.

-- Just to be sure, I checked with the facility, and there are no physical therapists on staff, only "rehab specialists," for which no credentials were provided. If this isn't misleading, I'm not sure what is.

Extremely frustrating IMO.
 
If we are saying that there are DCs that call themselves PTs, I would have to disagree. I've never seen it. Maybe it has happened, I don't know. But after many years in chiro practice, I've never seen it. Now I know there have been cases of DCs stating that they offer "physical therapy", but as I said earlier I think this has been largely regulated against these days, as it should be.

Regarding the term "physiotherapy", my experience has been that this refers to things like electric stim, ultrasound, and other modalities. I guess it does kind of sound similar to "physical therapy", but I don't think the intention was to trick patients into thinking DCs were PTs.

I think most DCs like being DCs and don't wish to be PTs. And that's not a knock on PTs, lest anyone misunderstand my sentiments.

Depends on the state if this is legal. In AZ, using 'physiotherapy' or 'physiotherapist' when not licensed as a physical therapist is against the law.
Here is the link: http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/32/02042.htm&Title=32&DocType=ARS
But here is the appropriate text quoted from the above link:
"C. A person or business entity or its employees, agents or representatives shall not use in connection with that person's name or the name or activity of the business the words "physical therapy", "physical therapist", "physiotherapy", "physiotherapist" or "registered physical therapist", the letters "PT", "LPT", "RPT", "MPT", "DScPT" or "DPT" or any other words, abbreviations or insignia indicating or implying directly or indirectly that physical therapy is provided or supplied, including the billing of services labeled as physical therapy, unless these services are provided by or under the direction of a physical therapist who is licensed pursuant to this chapter. A person or entity that violates this subsection is guilty of a class 1 misdemeanor."
 
The following is an example taken from a local Chiropractic website:

Will you suggest exercises or other things I can do?

Yes. We have a full physical rehab area that is staffed with 4 therapists and you will get exercises/stretches to do at home. However, we will not give them to you until you are about 25% better. While you may have heard to push through the pain and keep on exercising-- doing stretches or exercises too soon can slow down the progress of the condition and actually make it worse. It's important to allow time for tissue regeneration, and the reduction of inflammation, before starting back to certain physical activities. Don't worry we'll give you lots to do, when we determine you're ready.

-- Just to be sure, I checked with the facility, and there are no physical therapists on staff, only "rehab specialists," for which no credentials were provided. If this isn't misleading, I'm not sure what is.

Exactly... I wonder if the terms "physical" and "therapists" are coincidental. Not only can chiropractors get "board certified" in physiotherapy, they can claim other people in their offices are "therapists." Really? For the record, real PT techs (the ones who work in PT clinics) are not therapists, nor do they think they are or are they introduced this way.
 
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Depends on the state if this is legal. In AZ, using 'physiotherapy' or 'physiotherapist' when not licensed as a physical therapist is against the law.
Here is the link: http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/32/02042.htm&Title=32&DocType=ARS
But here is the appropriate text quoted from the above link:
"C. A person or business entity or its employees, agents or representatives shall not use in connection with that person's name or the name or activity of the business the words "physical therapy", "physical therapist", "physiotherapy", "physiotherapist" or "registered physical therapist", the letters "PT", "LPT", "RPT", "MPT", "DScPT" or "DPT" or any other words, abbreviations or insignia indicating or implying directly or indirectly that physical therapy is provided or supplied, including the billing of services labeled as physical therapy, unless these services are provided by or under the direction of a physical therapist who is licensed pursuant to this chapter. A person or entity that violates this subsection is guilty of a class 1 misdemeanor."

True. Apparently chiropractors in AZ do not have to obey the law. Google "Chiropractor Physiotherapy AZ" and you can see all the class 1 misdemeanor worthy chiropractic websites.
 
The following is an example taken from a local Chiropractic website:

Will you suggest exercises or other things I can do?

Yes. We have a full physical rehab area that is staffed with 4 therapists and you will get exercises/stretches to do at home. However, we will not give them to you until you are about 25% better. While you may have heard to push through the pain and keep on exercising-- doing stretches or exercises too soon can slow down the progress of the condition and actually make it worse. It’s important to allow time for tissue regeneration, and the reduction of inflammation, before starting back to certain physical activities. Don’t worry we’ll give you lots to do, when we determine you’re ready.

-- Just to be sure, I checked with the facility, and there are no physical therapists on staff, only "rehab specialists," for which no credentials were provided. If this isn't misleading, I'm not sure what is.

"Rehab" certainly isn't a term owned by PTs, and "physical rehab" isn't that far off.

Using the term "therapist", I'll agree, can be misleading. Not that there aren't other various types of "therapists" in the world, but anyway... Perhaps a different term would be better. However, I don't think we can hang them on using the term "therapist" because they aren't saying "physical therapist" after all.
 
Depends on the state if this is legal. In AZ, using 'physiotherapy' or 'physiotherapist' when not licensed as a physical therapist is against the law.
Here is the link: http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/32/02042.htm&Title=32&DocType=ARS
But here is the appropriate text quoted from the above link:
"C. A person or business entity or its employees, agents or representatives shall not use in connection with that person's name or the name or activity of the business the words "physical therapy", "physical therapist", "physiotherapy", "physiotherapist" or "registered physical therapist", the letters "PT", "LPT", "RPT", "MPT", "DScPT" or "DPT" or any other words, abbreviations or insignia indicating or implying directly or indirectly that physical therapy is provided or supplied, including the billing of services labeled as physical therapy, unless these services are provided by or under the direction of a physical therapist who is licensed pursuant to this chapter. A person or entity that violates this subsection is guilty of a class 1 misdemeanor."

This is the type of law I was referring to earlier, and I'd imagine similar laws exists in many if not most states. And if they don't exist, then the PTs should make sure they do.
 
Facetguy -

I have to admit that I come across situations similar to the aforementioned somewhat frequently. Now, I'm pretty close to National Chiropractic College and the Chicagoland area has a pretty high percentage of DCs, so maybe that helps explain it.

I do find it concerning that this seems to happen far too commonly, particularly in states where there is legislation in place to prevent it.

Do you know if DCs who use the term physical therapy in states that declare it a protected term are subject to censure from their licensing board?
 
"Rehab" certainly isn't a term owned by PTs, and "physical rehab" isn't that far off.

Using the term "therapist", I'll agree, can be misleading. Not that there aren't other various types of "therapists" in the world, but anyway... Perhaps a different term would be better. However, I don't think we can hang them on using the term "therapist" because they aren't saying "physical therapist" after all.

In this case, it's not the term, but the intent, that I take issue with. You certainly don't see me advertising my "adjustment" table where I do my "Chiropractic Rehabilitation".."
 
In this case, it's not the term, but the intent, that I take issue with. You certainly don't see me advertising my "adjustment" table where I do my "Chiropractic Rehabilitation".."

The term "adjustment" has become commonplace among DOs (the few who do manipulation), and I wouldn't be surprised if there are PTs using that term too.

I'm not sure I understand the 'intent' part. Gimme a bit more on that.
 
Facetguy -

I have to admit that I come across situations similar to the aforementioned somewhat frequently. Now, I'm pretty close to National Chiropractic College and the Chicagoland area has a pretty high percentage of DCs, so maybe that helps explain it.

I do find it concerning that this seems to happen far too commonly, particularly in states where there is legislation in place to prevent it.

Do you know if DCs who use the term physical therapy in states that declare it a protected term are subject to censure from their licensing board?

I suspect some of the semantics problems are related to unclear legislation. I know that in one of the states in which I'm licensed I had to take a separate Board exam for "physiotherapeutic modalities" or something like that (it's been awhile!). So, if a DC takes a Board exam for "physiotherapy", I'd imagine s/he might advertise that s/he does "physiotherapy". Or perhaps some of the legislative language has been more recently changed to better define "physiotherapy" (in light of objections by PTs), leaving some DCs with a license that contains older language? That's purely a guess, but I can see how that might happen.

And, yes, Chiro Boards will take disciplinary action against any DC breaking the rules, especially if a direct complaint is lodged.
 
The term "adjustment" has become commonplace among DOs (the few who do manipulation), and I wouldn't be surprised if there are PTs using that term too.

I'm not sure I understand the 'intent' part. Gimme a bit more on that.

My point was that I think there is intention to deceive the public when you use the term physiotherapy or physical therapy or terms that imply that a PT is on staff and is providing care. Just like I would be misleading the public if I told people I did adjustment therapy. The average person would associate that with Chiropractic and assume that I was performing Chiropracty(is that a word?)
 
My point was that I think there is intention to deceive the public when you use the term physiotherapy or physical therapy or terms that imply that a PT is on staff and is providing care. Just like I would be misleading the public if I told people I did adjustment therapy. The average person would associate that with Chiropractic and assume that I was performing Chiropracty(is that a word?)

Speaking for myself, when I took that Board exam in "physiotherapeutic modalities", it never crossed my mind that I could then take that and trick patients into thinking I was a PT. So deception probably isn't the motivation across the board (not Board). The term "physiotherapy" has been common to chiro licensure, at least in some states. As I said earlier, this may have changed by now following PT outcry and the language may have changed; I honestly don't know.

Use of the term "physical therapy", as I've said many times now, should be restricted to PTs. It shouldn't be allowed for anyone else to use that term.

Other terms, like "rehab", are just common terms that could relate to many fields, PT and chiro included.

The term "therapist" is another ill-defined term that could mean any number of things. But I'll grant you that a patient could misconstrue things and believe that a "therapist" is a "physical therapist" when they aren't. That "therapist" could, however, simply be a "massage therapist", in which case they are a "therapist".

And the word you're looking for is Chiropractic :) .
 
"Rehab" certainly isn't a term owned by PTs, and "physical rehab" isn't that far off.

Using the term "therapist", I'll agree, can be misleading. Not that there aren't other various types of "therapists" in the world, but anyway... Perhaps a different term would be better. However, I don't think we can hang them on using the term "therapist" because they aren't saying "physical therapist" after all.

There's no excuse for this, these "therapists" are actually chiropractic assistants or chiropractic techs.
 
The term "adjustment" has become commonplace among DOs (the few who do manipulation), and I wouldn't be surprised if there are PTs using that term too.

I'm not sure I understand the 'intent' part. Gimme a bit more on that.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Adjustment is to Chiropractic is NOT as physical therapy is to physiotherapy or therapist. The intent is to imply chiropractors are not only trained in physical therapy but they can pawn it off to someone, call them whatever they want, and oversee it.
 
I suspect some of the semantics problems are related to unclear legislation. I know that in one of the states in which I'm licensed I had to take a separate Board exam for "physiotherapeutic modalities" or something like that (it's been awhile!). So, if a DC takes a Board exam for "physiotherapy", I'd imagine s/he might advertise that s/he does "physiotherapy". Or perhaps some of the legislative language has been more recently changed to better define "physiotherapy" (in light of objections by PTs), leaving some DCs with a license that contains older language? That's purely a guess, but I can see how that might happen.

And, yes, Chiro Boards will take disciplinary action against any DC breaking the rules, especially if a direct complaint is lodged.

There is no semantics, it's not being picky. DC schools or any other con ed or board certifications should not and never should have tried to claim training in physical therapy or physiotherapy or any other form of either those words. Physical therapist being trained in manipulation is not the same as a chiropractor claiming to be trained in physical therapy or physiotherapy.
 
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