advice for new pharmacy students

[sunshao]

Advice for new incoming pharmacy students would be great! Can also be anything u wish u knew as a incoming student

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[trailerpark]

Switch to med school.

 

[anewmanx]

Take these years to educate yourself on the process of opening your own pharmacy. The less time you have to be dependent on someone else for your job security the better, especially with the massive number of pharmacy schools opening and pumping out grads.

Also, expect almost every person on here to whine and complain about how doom and gloom it is, and how the sky is falling. Even though the vast majority of them have jobs, and many have even jumped between different jobs multiple times in the last few years. You won't find much, if anything, encouraging being written on this forum.

 

[nguyenulm]

Take these years to educate yourself on the process of opening your own pharmacy. The less time you have to be dependent on someone else for your job security the better, especially with the massive number of pharmacy schools opening and pumping out grads.

Also, expect almost every person on here to whine and complain about how doom and gloom it is, and how the sky is falling. Even though the vast majority of them have jobs, and many have even jumped between different jobs multiple times in the last few years. You won't find much, if anything, encouraging being written on this forum.

Good job bro. Your posts are always so enlightening.

 

[owlegrad]

You won't find much, if anything, encouraging being written on this forum.

I don't think I agree with that.

 

[Sunshine98]

Live poor during and after you graduate. Pay off those loans! Take extra shifts when you can to do it. Strive to be debt free!

 

[anewmanx]

Good job bro. Your posts are always so enlightening.

Well, I've been browsing here six months and more than 3/4 of the advice I have read towards new students/graduates is negative. I call it as I see it.

 

[BMBiology]

I don't see things as "negative" or "positive". I see myself as posting what I know and what I have experienced. I actually think SDN presents things better than how it is. Many of the "veterans" on this forum graduated during the boom years and are doing better than other pharmacists. We are not getting pushed around like those in their 50s and we are not desperately looking for hours like the new graduates.

We are not trying to discourage anyone from pharmacy. We know if someone decides not to go, another would be happy to take his seat. We are also not competing with the new grads.

If it is raining outside, don't you want to know so you can bring an umbrella?

 

[fauxden]

Yeah- I'd probably count that money you paid to hold your spot as stupid tax and drop out.

 

[anewmanx]

The current unemployment rate for pharmacists is currently around 3.2% for the industry as a whole.

The current unemployment projections for graduating pharmacists by 2018 are 20%.

That sounds scary until you realize that 20% figure is 3000 people from the projected graduating class size, or less than 1% of the projected workforce in 2018. Currently there are around 300,000 pharmacists, with a projected growth of 10,000-12,000 a year. That puts us squarely between 340,000 and 348,000 pharmacists, 96.8% employed gives us 329,120 - 336864 employed, minus those who don't get jobs when they graduate (3000,) gives us 326,120 of 340,000 - 333,864 of 348000 employed. Consequently, by 2018 the projected unemployment rate is therefore between 4.08 and 4.06% unemployment rate.

The sky is falling.

I'd ****ing kill to be in a career field that considers an overall unemployment rate below 5% to be a problem.

Even if there was a shortfall of 3000 per annum during the next four years you're still looking at 6.7% - 6.6%. That's ****ing awesome.

Unemployment rates in Europe are averaging 25% in many countries. Real unemployment in the United States (since our official statistics don't count people who stopped looking for jobs,) is estimated to be as high as 20-25%.

Life is good for pharmacists, dentists, doctors, etc... Just not as cushy as it used to be. People are upset because they can't get sign-on bonuses and free company cars anymore like they could when there was a shortage. First world problems.

Useful articles:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-...rate-20-american-families-everyone-unemployed

http://www.pharmacypracticenews.com/ViewArticle.aspx?d=Operations & Management&d_id=53&i=October 2013&i_id=1006&a_id=24255

 

[BMBiology]

If you are fine with 6.7% unemployment rate then you have pretty low expectation.

What is the definition of being "employed". If you can only get 8 hours a week, does that mean you are "employed"? That may work if the government is paying for your education but it is not going to work when you have 150-250 k in student loan debt.

I also don't think it is fair that you are comparing us to the Europeans. They are not graduating with the amount of student loan debt like us.

If I am a new graduate, why would I care that some guy who graduated in 2006 is doing well? Time has changed and I am in the same boat as other new graduates. And it is going to get worse. Pharmacy schools are continuing to expand and multiply.

 

[owlegrad]

Well, I've been browsing here six months and more than 3/4 of the advice I have read towards new students/graduates is negative. I call it as I see it.

I think this was directed at me.

I would say we have a small number of vocal posters who are negative. But there are lots of positive feedback as well.

 

[anewmanx]

I think this was directed at me.

I would say we have a small number of vocal posters who are negative. But there are lots of positive feedback as well.

To be honest I've found many of your posts, (as I've read a lot of older posts as well,) are generally positive.

 

[anewmanx]

If you are fine with 6.7% unemployment rate then you have pretty low expectation.

Scores of military and soldiers put their lives on the line for less than 36k a year to avoid the rampant REAL unemployment rate out there. People with PhD's struggle to get jobs at McDonalds.

6.7% sounds pretty good to me. Hell, one year employed as a pharmacist is equal to four or five years putting your life on the line as a soldier. You could still live better than 50% of Americans by working every other year. Yeah, I guess my expectations are low.



A husband wife pharmacist team could work five years and retire to mexico, or similar tropical low income area, before their thirties. Wow, life's tough.

 

[BMBiology]

Since you are comparing everyone to a pharmacist from a soldier to a PhD working at McD, why don't you compare U.S soldiers to Chinese soldiers? Do they also get paid 36 k a year? Free college education? Health insurance?

One thing I never hear you talk about is student loan. So let's keep it simple and fair. Let's not compare apples to oranges.

P.S., now is your chance to mention (again) about your free education.

 

[anewmanx]

Since you are comparing everyone to a pharmacist from a soldier to a PhD working at McD, why don't you compare U.S soldiers to Chinese soldiers? Do they also get paid 36 k a year? Free college education? Health insurance?

One thing I never hear you talk about is student loan. So let's keep it simple and fair. Let's not compare apples to oranges.

P.S., now is your chance to mention (again) about your free education.

Chinese soldiers make a decent living wage for their country. Enough money to go out and have fun, and they get their uniforms, food, medical care, and place to sleep for free. People compete for academic achievement scholarships funded by the government to pay for their university education. Chinese soldiers in academy study English, Calculus, and a number of other college level subjects free of charge. So yeah, comparatively, they have a good deal in their country. It's just that cost of living is rock bottom low in China. Those stationed in higher income areas are given bonuses by the local governments to ensure they are comfortable.

It takes a full time pharmacist less than three years to pay off their student loans, if they're frugal. So many excuses you make for your negative attitude. Deferrement, IBR, there are a lot of options while someone is waiting to get a good pharmacist position. They can, oh God forbid, go work at starbucks and set up an income based repayment plan.

And to be accurate, my education isn't free. I paid with my health. What have you done?

Furthermore, now the US Government is paying ME every month to go to school, on top of my tuition. God bless the GI Bill. I earned it.

 

[oldstock]

The current unemployment rate for pharmacists is currently around 3.2% for the industry as a whole.

The current unemployment projections for graduating pharmacists by 2018 are 20%.

That sounds scary until you realize that 20% figure is 3000 people from the projected graduating class size, or less than 1% of the projected workforce in 2018. Currently there are around 300,000 pharmacists, with a projected growth of 10,000-12,000 a year. That puts us squarely between 340,000 and 348,000 pharmacists, 96.8% employed gives us 329,120 - 336864 employed, minus those who don't get jobs when they graduate (3000,) gives us 326,120 of 340,000 - 333,864 of 348000 employed. Consequently, by 2018 the projected unemployment rate is therefore between 4.08 and 4.06% unemployment rate.

The sky is falling.

I'd ******* kill to be in a career field that considers an overall unemployment rate below 5% to be a problem.

Even if there was a shortfall of 3000 per annum during the next four years you're still looking at 6.7% - 6.6%. That's ******* awesome.

Unemployment rates in Europe are averaging 25% in many countries. Real unemployment in the United States (since our official statistics don't count people who stopped looking for jobs,) is estimated to be as high as 20-25%.

Life is good for pharmacists, dentists, doctors, etc... Just not as cushy as it used to be. People are upset because they can't get sign-on bonuses and free company cars anymore like they could when there was a shortage. First world problems.

Useful articles:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-...rate-20-american-families-everyone-unemployed

http://www.pharmacypracticenews.com/ViewArticle.aspx?d=Operations & Management&d_id=53&i=October 2013&i_id=1006&a_id=24255

I guess you based that figure 10-12K on 130 schools (at the end of 2014) x ~ 100 student/class/school. What if they hit 200 schools soon ??

Employed or not, what do you think about the salary is going to be like then (vs the 150-250K student loans for pharmacy schools) ?? What about the lengthy residency that will likely be getting longer to compete for a job ?? PGY10 anyone ??

 

[BMBiology]

^^ Pay off your student loans in 3 years? Maybe if you go to a state school and live at home but not when you have 250 k.

Work for Starbucks and get on IBA/PAYE and your loans will be gone after 20/25 years? What world do you live in? You would still need to pay taxes in the amount that is forgiven and expect the tax bill to be huge since you have not been aggressively paying off your loans.

Decisions have consequences. It doesn't make you better than anyone here so please get off your high horse.

 

[BMBiology]

Job growth of 10,000-12,000 positions per year? That fool is still using old data.

The new projection from 2012 to 2022 is 41,400 positions so about 4100 positions per year:

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/mobile/pharmacists.htm

Of course you would have known this if you had actually worked in the profession.

 

[a student]

You know what I think? It might be a good thing that new grads have high debts. Someone who is 300k in debt will not survive on 50k/year. That means no matter how despirate they are, they can't drag the salary down too low. =)

 

[oldstock]

You know what I think? It might be a good thing that new grads have high debts. Someone who is 300k in debt will not survive on 50k/year. That means no matter how despirate they are, they can't drag the salary down too low. =)

well, you never know... the salary is determined by supply/demand, not by whether or not you can survive

 

[PharmtoCS]

You know what I think? It might be a good thing that new grads have high debts. Someone who is 300k in debt will not survive on 50k/year. That means no matter how despirate they are, they can't drag the salary down too low. =)

well, you never know... the salary is determined by supply/demand, not by whether or not you can survive

They can easily survive on $50k/year and $300k debt with IBR.

...until the "tax bomb" hits them 20 or 25 years later.

 

[oldstock]

They can easily survive on $50k/year and $300k debt with IBR.

...until the "tax bomb" hits them 20 or 25 years later.

I love to hear more about it....

 

[anewmanx]

The point is you can survive on IBR until you land a position as a Pharmacist. How *****ic do you have to be to suggest staying on a starbucks job for 20 years.... seriously, you people are smarter than that.

If you rack up 250k in student loan debt you're just stupid and irresponsible. What's wrong with living with your parents? What difference does it really make, rent runs a national average of around $1000. If you can't afford that, get roomates. You'll end up paying less than $400 a month, or $4800 a year. If that really cuts so much into your student loan repayment, you're not frugal.

Bottom line is there are some people who like to complain and have nothing good to say. Meanwhile one in four American households have NO ONE working in them according to the BLS. That's the real unemployment rate, not that garbage they put in the news to keep the market from crashing.. the figure in the news doesn't count individuals not looking for employment; nice trick. So until pharmacists are facing 20-25% unemployment, there's not really a much better option out there. Unless you have the chops for medical school and are willing to work 80hr work weeks for slave wages during residency and fellowship.

The residency argument is stupid since you don't need a residency to work retail, where the majority of jobs are at. Any job market is a living system, and it will balance itself out. Worrying about the number of schools opening is a moot point, as the rising unemployment level, advent of residencies for hospital positions, and rising tuition will eventually drive people away from enrolling in favor of medical school.

It never ceases to amaze me how negative some people can be. To encourage every single person who asks for advice to abandon the career field is just ******ed. There are only a handful of professions that one can easily do anywhere in the world, why discourage someone from pursuing one of them? If they had what it took to go to medical school instead, I'm sure they would.

Also, there is a certain thing called attrition. Some people will die, some people will retire, and some people will move on to other fields. Unfortunately, the magnitude of the attrition is unknown until it occurs.

 

[kobywon]

Just wondering if anybody has any helpful advice for me regarding pursuing a career in pharmacy. I have been accepted to pharmacy school, but I am still on the fence about whether or not to take the seat. I'm married with 3 children and would need to sell my house immediately and pack up and move 9 hours away. I am currently in construction where I make an average of 120k per year. However, I graduated college ( Health Science) in 1999 and now want to pursue something that allows me to use my mind rather than destroying my body. Physically my body is "tired" and the long days have taken its toll. My question to any pharmacy students or pharmacists is if you were in my position would you take the risk of a decent paying job and security to pursue a career in pharmacy?

 

[BMBiology]

It never ceases to amaze me how negative some people can be. To encourage every single person who asks for advice to abandon the career field is just ******ed. There are only a handful of professions that one can easily do anywhere in the world, why discourage someone from pursuing one of them? If they had what it took to go to medical school instead, I'm sure they would.

It is easy to be dismissive by saying you are just being "negative". Show me how am I being negative? I gave you some facts. Whether or not you decide to listen is up to you. If it is raining outside, am I being negative by telling you to bring an umbrella?

 

[fauxden]

Just wondering if anybody has any helpful advice for me regarding pursuing a career in pharmacy. I have been accepted to pharmacy school, but I am still on the fence about whether or not to take the seat. I'm married with 3 children and would need to sell my house immediately and pack up and move 9 hours away. I am currently in construction where I make an average of 120k per year. However, I graduated college ( Health Science) in 1999 and now want to pursue something more mentally stimulating. Physically my body is "tired" and the long days have taken its toll. My question to any pharmacy students or pharmacists is if you were in my position would you take the risk of a decent paying job and security to pursue a career in pharmacy?

yeah I wouldn't do it. I'm a non-retail pharmacist.

 

[oldstock]

Just wondering if anybody has any helpful advice for me regarding pursuing a career in pharmacy. I have been accepted to pharmacy school, but I am still on the fence about whether or not to take the seat. I'm married with 3 children and would need to sell my house immediately and pack up and move 9 hours away. I am currently in construction where I make an average of 120k per year. However, I graduated college ( Health Science) in 1999 and now want to pursue something more mentally stimulating. Physically my body is "tired" and the long days have taken its toll. My question to any pharmacy students or pharmacists is if you were in my position would you take the risk of a decent paying job and security to pursue a career in pharmacy?

expect no difference in pharmacy, esp. retails. If you have worked in pharmacy, you already knew that. The avg pharmacist's salary is about 100-120K, same as what you are making now. It is up to you to determine if the cost of "stimulating" your brain is worth the cost of time and money (avg 150-250K debt for attending 4 years of pharmacy school) and additional residency/training.

 

[rxwaiting]

Advice for new incoming pharmacy students would be great! Can also be anything u wish u knew as a incoming student

Look at tuition trend, job market trend in your area, best or worst scenario. study hard don't fail that will get you a Pharm.d!

 

[sunshao]

wow what did I do=( I meant to give hints or help for going through pharmacy school like helpful books or tips to do well, but it blew up into something I never intended.

 

[oldstock]

wow what did I do=( I meant to give hints or help for going through pharmacy school like helpful books or tips to do well, but it blew up into something I never intended.

if you wanna tips for pharmacy schools, search around for past threads. I saw them plenty here on SDN. Too lazy to find a link for you

 

[a student]

Job growth of 10,000-12,000 positions per year? That fool is still using old data.

The new projection from 2012 to 2022 is 41,400 positions so about 4100 positions per year:

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/mobile/pharmacists.htm

Of course you would have known this if you had actually worked in the profession.

Du ma! That is not even enough jobs for half of each year's new grads. How is new grad umemployment rate not 50% already?

 

[Wheresmyaricept]

wow what did I do=( I meant to give hints or help for going through pharmacy school like helpful books or tips to do well, but it blew up into something I never intended.

In this thread: BMB is a dick but is technically right, which is the worst kind of dick.

 

[trailerpark]

Since when is pharmacy mentally stimulating... I think construction would be more stimulating.

 

[anewmanx]

Since when is pharmacy mentally stimulating... I think construction would be more stimulating.

I really enjoyed remodeling houses when I was a young buck. Something so relaxing about working with your hands. Too bad old age and injury creep up on us...

 

[anewmanx]

Du ma! That is not even enough jobs for half of each year's new grads. How is new grad umemployment rate not 50% already?

Because of the unknown factor of attrition every year. A certain number die, retire, or move on to something else every year. Otherwise the unemployment rate would be 50% plus for new grads. That's the sticky part of it. You can quote all the statistics you want, but what happens if 5,000 pharmacists decide to retire one year? Another 1000 die. Then 1000 of the new grads continue their education with a PhD or switch to Medicine (which from what I've read on here and valuemd, quite a few have done in the past.) That gives you 7000 openings in the right direction. How many pharmacists leave regular salaried positions every year to open their own pharmacies? These are all numbers that remain a mystery to us. Does a residency become a way to pad previously staffed positions with two people? I.E. we had a full priced pharmacist, and we replaced him with two pharmacy grad students in "residency" for less than half the salary (plus that big fat check we get from the government for residency training.) There are any number of ways that the number of open positions can change faster or slower than estimates. That's why they're estimates and not facts.

Estimates don't account for everything that may happen any given year. Take for instance the recent house bill to expand healthcare access to vets. They have allocated something like 4 billion to hire new doctors, nurses, pharmacists, etc.... no telling how many new VA pharmacist jobs will crop up. They're also building new facilities.

Btw: cursing at me in Vietnamese (du ma) was unnecessarily. I didn't call you hijo de puta.

 

[anewmanx]

wow what did I do=( I meant to give hints or help for going through pharmacy school like helpful books or tips to do well, but it blew up into something I never intended.

Had to do something to pass the time when there's no class this week. Seriously though, SDN is a great place to have pointless arguments on the internet.

 

[a student]

Because of the unknown factor of attrition every year. A certain number die, retire, or move on to something else every year. Otherwise the unemployment rate would be 50% plus for new grads. That's the sticky part of it. You can quote all the statistics you want, but what happens if 5,000 pharmacists decide to retire one year? Another 1000 die. Then 1000 of the new grads continue their education with a PhD or switch to Medicine (which from what I've read on here and valuemd, quite a few have done in the past.) That gives you 7000 openings in the right direction. How many pharmacists leave regular salaried positions every year to open their own pharmacies? These are all numbers that remain a mystery to us. Does a residency become a way to pad previously staffed positions with two people? I.E. we had a full priced pharmacist, and we replaced him with two pharmacy grad students in "residency" for less than half the salary (plus that big fat check we get from the government for residency training.) There are any number of ways that the number of open positions can change faster or slower than estimates. That's why they're estimates and not facts.

Estimates don't account for everything that may happen any given year. Take for instance the recent house bill to expand healthcare access to vets. They have allocated something like 4 billion to hire new doctors, nurses, pharmacists, etc.... no telling how many new VA pharmacist jobs will crop up. They're also building new facilities.

Btw: cursing at me in Vietnamese (du ma) was unnecessarily. I didn't call you hijo de puta.

I was not cussing at you! Du ma is more of an expression like damn or ****. Besides, I wasn't even replying to you.
But anyways, are you saying the bls calculation does not include estimated retiring pharmacists?

 

[pacethis]

Just wondering if anybody has any helpful advice for me regarding pursuing a career in pharmacy. I have been accepted to pharmacy school, but I am still on the fence about whether or not to take the seat. I'm married with 3 children and would need to sell my house immediately and pack up and move 9 hours away. I am currently in construction where I make an average of 120k per year. However, I graduated college ( Health Science) in 1999 and now want to pursue something that allows me to use my mind rather than destroying my body. Physically my body is "tired" and the long days have taken its toll. My question to any pharmacy students or pharmacists is if you were in my position would you take the risk of a decent paying job and security to pursue a career in pharmacy?

Someone above just posted 20% unemployment for those who would graduate in 2018, that would be the next starting class. While they tried to soften those numbers by spreading them amongst all working pharmacists, the truth is that those with jobs will more likely keep them and new grads will be unemployed. Based on that, along with the debt, I could never recommend it really to anyone as a financial decision.

However, for you, I can fully recommend against it. First, you already make a very good wage. You'll give up 1/2 million dollars in wages over the next four years, plus taking on 150k plus in student debt. By the time you figure lost wage and pay off your student loans, you'll give up somewhere around $70k per year for an entire decade, which is all that's left of your new salary after taxes. But wait, there's more - you're married with 3 children. You're going to have to move your children, give up a large portion of their childhood, and strain the marriage you theoretically would like to stay in.

The truth is, I understand it way more than most ever will. I started four years ago, and graduated one month ago. I'm currently studying for my boards and am hopeful to be employed in a relatively short time. I'm excited about my life, don't get me wrong. However, my life is much different than it used to be. I was married with 2 children when I started, ages 1 and 5. My marriage only lasted 4 months after starting, and while your mileage may vary, I saw roughly half of preexisting marriages fail over the course of pharmacy school students. Does you wife work now? She will likely have to for the next four years...how does that change your relationship? Do you have any idea how many times you will have to give up time with your family to study? The sad truth is that pharmacy school is just not set up for those that have families. I'm graduating a few months late because my daughter sprained her ankle and I had to miss an exam to take her to the doctor. I was appalled when I wasn't allowed to take the test, despite the fact that I notified my professor the night prior to the exam, had pictures and medical records of the sprain. I have full custody of my children and there was no one else to take her to the doctor. The professor gave me a zero on the exam, causing me to fail the course (I had passed the other 3 exams). The official reasoning was that "family member's medical excuses are not excusatory for an exam".

Simply stated, it's not worth it for a man in your position. You stand to lose everything - and gain very little. If you want a less physical career, then work yourself into a position that gives you that. I had similar reasons for taking this path and am roughly a year older than you. You will be the oldest in your class, or at least very close. Are you prepared to pull all-nighters to study again? Dont' kid yourself listening to students who didn't have to do these. You have kids, and responsibilities, which means it's likely you won't be able to study until everyone else goes to bed. Is it doable? Absolutely - you can accomplish anything you set your mind to. Is it worth it? Not likely for a married man with children and a well paying job...

Best of luck in your decision,
Joshua, PharmD

 

[oldstock]

Someone above just posted 20% unemployment for those who would graduate in 2018, that would be the next starting class. While they tried to soften those numbers by spreading them amongst all working pharmacists, the truth is that those with jobs will more likely keep them and new grads will be unemployed. Based on that, along with the debt, I could never recommend it really to anyone as a financial decision.

However, for you, I can fully recommend against it. First, you already make a very good wage. You'll give up 1/2 million dollars in wages over the next four years, plus taking on 150k plus in student debt. By the time you figure lost wage and pay off your student loans, you'll give up somewhere around $70k per year for an entire decade, which is all that's left of your new salary after taxes. But wait, there's more - you're married with 3 children. You're going to have to move your children, give up a large portion of their childhood, and strain the marriage you theoretically would like to stay in.

The truth is, I understand it way more than most ever will. I started four years ago, and graduated one month ago. I'm currently studying for my boards and am hopeful to be employed in a relatively short time. I'm excited about my life, don't get me wrong. However, my life is much different than it used to be. I was married with 2 children when I started, ages 1 and 5. My marriage only lasted 4 months after starting, and while your mileage may vary, I saw roughly half of preexisting marriages fail over the course of pharmacy school students. Does you wife work now? She will likely have to for the next four years...how does that change your relationship? Do you have any idea how many times you will have to give up time with your family to study? The sad truth is that pharmacy school is just not set up for those that have families. I'm graduating a few months late because my daughter sprained her ankle and I had to miss an exam to take her to the doctor. I was appalled when I wasn't allowed to take the test, despite the fact that I notified my professor the night prior to the exam, had pictures and medical records of the sprain. I have full custody of my children and there was no one else to take her to the doctor. The professor gave me a zero on the exam, causing me to fail the course (I had passed the other 3 exams). The official reasoning was that "family member's medical excuses are not excusatory for an exam".

Simply stated, it's not worth it for a man in your position. You stand to lose everything - and gain very little. If you want a less physical career, then work yourself into a position that gives you that. I had similar reasons for taking this path and am roughly a year older than you. You will be the oldest in your class, or at least very close. Are you prepared to pull all-nighters to study again? Dont' kid yourself listening to students who didn't have to do these. You have kids, and responsibilities, which means it's likely you won't be able to study until everyone else goes to bed. Is it doable? Absolutely - you can accomplish anything you set your mind to. Is it worth it? Not likely for a married man with children and a well paying job...

Best of luck in your decision,
Joshua, PharmD

I vote it this the #1 post for this thread !! GL with everything !!

 

[PharmtoCS]

Just wondering if anybody has any helpful advice for me regarding pursuing a career in pharmacy. I have been accepted to pharmacy school, but I am still on the fence about whether or not to take the seat. I'm married with 3 children and would need to sell my house immediately and pack up and move 9 hours away. I am currently in construction where I make an average of 120k per year. However, I graduated college ( Health Science) in 1999 and now want to pursue something that allows me to use my mind rather than destroying my body. Physically my body is "tired" and the long days have taken its toll. My question to any pharmacy students or pharmacists is if you were in my position would you take the risk of a decent paying job and security to pursue a career in pharmacy?

Computer engineering might be a career that allows you to still earn up to $120k/year and use your mind without destroying your body or going into $200k+ in debt. You can probably take a few night classes at your local CC or university to see if the career path is a good fit for you.

 

[kobywon]

Since when is pharmacy mentally stimulating... I think construction would be more stimulating.[/Q

Someone above just posted 20% unemployment for those who would graduate in 2018, that would be the next starting class. While they tried to soften those numbers by spreading them amongst all working pharmacists, the truth is that those with jobs will more likely keep them and new grads will be unemployed. Based on that, along with the debt, I could never recommend it really to anyone as a financial decision.

However, for you, I can fully recommend against it. First, you already make a very good wage. You'll give up 1/2 million dollars in wages over the next four years, plus taking on 150k plus in student debt. By the time you figure lost wage and pay off your student loans, you'll give up somewhere around $70k per year for an entire decade, which is all that's left of your new salary after taxes. But wait, there's more - you're married with 3 children. You're going to have to move your children, give up a large portion of their childhood, and strain the marriage you theoretically would like to stay in.

The truth is, I understand it way more than most ever will. I started four years ago, and graduated one month ago. I'm currently studying for my boards and am hopeful to be employed in a relatively short time. I'm excited about my life, don't get me wrong. However, my life is much different than it used to be. I was married with 2 children when I started, ages 1 and 5. My marriage only lasted 4 months after starting, and while your mileage may vary, I saw roughly half of preexisting marriages fail over the course of pharmacy school students. Does you wife work now? She will likely have to for the next four years...how does that change your relationship? Do you have any idea how many times you will have to give up time with your family to study? The sad truth is that pharmacy school is just not set up for those that have families. I'm graduating a few months late because my daughter sprained her ankle and I had to miss an exam to take her to the doctor. I was appalled when I wasn't allowed to take the test, despite the fact that I notified my professor the night prior to the exam, had pictures and medical records of the sprain. I have full custody of my children and there was no one else to take her to the doctor. The professor gave me a zero on the exam, causing me to fail the course (I had passed the other 3 exams). The official reasoning was that "family member's medical excuses are not excusatory for an exam".

Simply stated, it's not worth it for a man in your position. You stand to lose everything - and gain very little. If you want a less physical career, then work yourself into a position that gives you that. I had similar reasons for taking this path and am roughly a year older than you. You will be the oldest in your class, or at least very close. Are you prepared to pull all-nighters to study again? Dont' kid yourself listening to students who didn't have to do these. You have kids, and responsibilities, which means it's likely you won't be able to study until everyone else goes to bed. Is it doable? Absolutely - you can accomplish anything you set your mind to. Is it worth it? Not likely for a married man with children and a well paying job...

Best of luck in your decision,
Joshua, PharmD

Thank you for your advice, I truly appreciate it. This is such a huge decision in our lives that I don't want to blow it by making the wrong decision. My wife is a school teacher but has not worked since before my oldest child (12) was born. Your experience sounds exactly what myself and family would endure and it seems like it might be a poor choice if I take the seat I was offered. Thanks again for the advice.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Thank you for your advice, I truly appreciate it. This is such a huge decision in our lives that I don't want to blow it by making the wrong decision. My wife is a school teacher but has not worked since before my oldest child (12) was born. Your experience sounds exactly what myself and family would endure and it seems like it might be a poor choice if I take the seat I was offered. Thanks again for the advice.

I will try to give wan unbiased analysis. Don't expect pharmacist jobs to be restful and mentally stimulating. Are there cushy jobs in pharmacy? Yes, but they are few and hard to get. 2/3 of the pharmacists work retail, so you must plan with that as the default outcome. For cushy and/or mentally stimulating jobs you need to get into to clinical, long term care, research, specialty, or management. Those probably constitute <5% of the pharmacist jobs. You can get into it, but you need careful planning, lot of effort in getting the right grades/internship/residency/connections. Luck and fate will play a big part and is beyond your control. Your family need to be prepared to endure your hardship with you.

Financially while construction might be hot right now, you know how it was in 08-10. So while on paper it might not make sense right now, you need to anticipate the cyclic nature of that field. I think going for an alternative career is a good idea for the long run, I'm not convinced that pharmacy school is the best option. You might want to consider being an PA if you want healthcare, petro engineering for applied sciences, or acturary if you are good with numbers.

 

[BF7]

delete

 

[kendrick lamar]

lol, this is my advice:
First, use this forum sparingly. There will be a lot of advice and talk here that seems daunting, especially as a pharmacy student: don't be discouraged, but understand the reality of this field and work your way through it if this is what you really want to do. This is the best insight and offer I'll give you as a graduate and what I learned in pharmacy school that I wish I could have acted upon earlier.
1. I don't know what kind of program you're in, but if you're in a 0-6 program or if you're at a school that isn't just a pharmacy school (that has an undergrad/grad/medical campus or something) make huge use of the resources around you. Don't know what others may think about this, but don't just restrict yourself to "just pharmacy". Do know your pharmacy faculty, as they can help guide you, write your LOR if you plan to do residency, etc. but I feel like there are drawbacks to being a pharmacy department stickler. Take some classes in various areas if your schedule can allow, talk to other faculty from other department (management, public health). Join organizations that aren't necessarily just for pharmacists. Attend workshops, meetings and lectures that relate to things you are interested in. And use this opp to network, network, network. I feel like the more open-ended your study is and if you have some knowledge of things like technology, management, clinical etc. a little can go a long way, maybe.
2. Get a tech job ASAP!!! Don't even wait until you get your intern license if you can become a tech. If you can't find a tech job, then insist on volunteering. Some hospitals don't allow volunteers for privacy reasons, but some retail chains might. Just do what you can. It doesn't hurt to try and ask. Don't get discouraged if you have to volunteer. A volunteer position is better than wasting time looking for a paid position if you tried everything and can't find one. and a volunteer position can easily become paid. AND gives you great networking opportunities.
3. Try to create your CV early. Get a LinkedIn. Use your school's career center services as early as you can.

Almost everybody I know recently has gotten a pharmacy position. 80% of those are in retail. 15% are doing residency. 90% of those doing residency are doing it in a VA hospital. Are you willing to work retail when you graduate? Are you willing to work retail if you can't find another pharmacy position or a residency of your liking? If you can see yourself doing retail when all else fails, you'll be okay. It is becoming difficult out there, but be flexible and aware.

 

[kendrick lamar]

Your family need to be prepared to endure your hardship with you.

This.
Although nobody depends on me, and I'm pretty young (graduated from a 0-6 program) I definitely feel my family is finding it taxing to see me frustrated.

 

[sunshao]

Does anyone know anyone doing pharmacy through the army? My cousin is doing it for med school and they are paying it for her. I wouldn't mind going through the military way if I am somehow put on the reserves like she is, but I haven't seen anything that will pay for pharmacy school in full, most only do 120k cap for 4 years.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Pacethis put is very eloquently. @kobywon my advice (bear in mind, I am a low-risk person and my advice is based on that.) I would keep your job. You have a very good paying job. I would not risk the family upheaval & the huge college debt, for a job that will just pay you similarly (and a job, which you currently have no idea if you will consider the working conditions better or worse than what you currently have.) Pharmacy is a very stressful job, many pharmacists thrive on that stress, but others don't. Working construction, you haven't had to deal with the continuously deal with people as you will have to in most pharmacy jobs--you may find that you like the physical work of construction better. If it were me, I would keep doing construction as long as a could, if I reached the point where I physically couldn't do it anymore, that is when I would look at other career options. Is your degree an associates or a bachelor's? If its an associates, then I would recommend getting your bachelors via on-line or night classes. If its a bachelors, then consider that insurance for the future. As someone else mentioned, can you work yourself into a management job in construction, where the work would not be a physically taxing, but where you don't have to take on the huge risks of pharmacy school?

 

[PharmDCandidate2014]

Yeah- I'd probably count that money you paid to hold your spot as stupid tax and drop out.

We call it the sinking Titanic.

 

[H8_CVS]

Get the hell out before you become a retail b*tch!