Advice for St. Matthew's University

[Alfie99]

Hi all,

I was hoping to look for some first hand knowledge regarding St. Matthews. So, I know it isn't one of the "big 4" and that it's not fully accredited in all 50 US states. But there are some attractive things I have found about this school, so I was hoping to learn more from former students or anyone else who has researched the issue. I have a friend studying there right now and he is loving it. He said they prepare you really well for the step exams (he scored 95th percentile on step 1), the small class sizes are great (~50) so all the profs know you by name and there are some good hospitals for clinical core rotations. And the Country seems like the safest and easiest to travel to, plus it is WAY cheaper than SGU. Also, the matching spots didn't look so bad either. Internal at Mayo, Neurosurgery, general surgery at Cleveland Clinic, etc.

For those that have studied there, were you able to do all your clinical core rotations at one hospital and was the decision in your hands? If I went, I would really like to do them all at Mt Sinai in Chicago so that I could hope to land a residency in peds there.

What were the glaring negatives? Were clinical rotations as disorganized as some people have led me to believe?

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[bedevilled ben]

Hi all,

I was hoping to look for some first hand knowledge regarding St. Matthews. So, I know it isn't one of the "big 4" and that it's not fully accredited in all 50 US states. But there are some attractive things I have found about this school, so I was hoping to learn more from former students or anyone else who has researched the issue. I have a friend studying there right now and he is loving it. He said they prepare you really well for the step exams (he scored 95th percentile on step 1), the small class sizes are great (~50) so all the profs know you by name and there are some good hospitals for clinical core rotations. And the Country seems like the safest and easiest to travel to, plus it is WAY cheaper than SGU. Also, the matching spots didn't look so bad either. Internal at Mayo, Neurosurgery, general surgery at Cleveland Clinic, etc.

For those that have studied there, were you able to do all your clinical core rotations at one hospital and was the decision in your hands? If I went, I would really like to do them all at Mt Sinai in Chicago so that I could hope to land a residency in peds there.

What were the glaring negatives? Were clinical rotations as disorganized as some people have led me to believe?

If money is your primary concern then you should look at one of the "big 4" that is less-expensive than SGU. But honestly, money shouldn't be your primary concern for your medical education if you're coming to the Caribbean. The opportunity cost should be your greatest concern, and minimizing that over the course of your medical education should be your primary concern. You should make your decisions as if you are NOT going to be the exception, you are NOT going to be in the 99th percentile of your class, and you are NOT going to get that residency at Mayo or Hopkins. Because statistically the odds are stacked against you. Are you better off paying $240k and getting your first-choice residency or paying $150k and being delayed a year (or more?) because you couldn't match? Tread lightly and don't expect that you're going to be that rockstar or special snowflake that defies the odds.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

My advice would be don't go to that school. Most or all of the medical student community will agree that the big 4 should be your last resort. Going to a school with accreditation issues is not a good idea. Your residency options after graduation are tight coming from a foreign school, much tighter when its not a well known foreign school, and even tighter when there are entire states you cant practice in.

If you really cant get into the big 4, you should probably start to think of other career options. Im not trying to be a jerk here, but the best advice I can give you is to start thinking of a plan other than medical school.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

And also, here is an entire thread about how shtty that school is

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/why-to-avoid-st-matthews-university.882646/

 

[Alfie99]

My advice would be don't go to that school. Most or all of the medical student community will agree that the big 4 should be your last resort. Going to a school with accreditation issues is not a good idea. Your residency options after graduation are tight coming from a foreign school, much tighter when its not a well known foreign school, and even tighter when there are entire states you cant practice in.

If you really cant get into the big 4, you should probably start to think of other career options. Im not trying to be a jerk here, but the best advice I can give you is to start thinking of a plan other than medical school.

For the first point, fair enough. I emailed to see the actual matching statistics from the school but have yet to hear back. My plan is to first apply broadly to US MD and DO schools and the Caribbean is my absolute last resort. My stats are above competitive average for all DO schools, but as a Canadian, I am slightly worried about the stigma of DO coming back to Canada. I know this stigma doesn't really exist in the US, but it is different back home, as I have talked to a few MDs here and they believe it does in fact carry a stigma despite being nearly identical training. I just wanted to hear some opinions of students who went to St. Matthews to hear about their experience.

 

[Alfie99]

And also, here is an entire thread about how shtty that school is

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/why-to-avoid-st-matthews-university.882646/

No, it's not. It is a post from someone who is barely literate bashing the school and then positive anecdotes from students who actually attended the school. I think a lot of students that run into trouble in the Caribbean are because they are not cut out for medical school in the first place. I think most of the students shouldn't be in med school in the first place, so no wonder they screw up the step 1, are disorganized during their clinical rotations, and go unmatched. But Canadians who just miss the mark in Canada (this can be with >3.8 >32) are smoking it down in the sun.

 

[Alfie99]

Here is the match list from 2013. https://www.stmatthews.edu/alumni-residency-placement?id=196, which is pretty consistent from years previous.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

Fair enough. I would be a little concerned though that they advertise a class size of 50ish students but their match list has about 150.

Your best bet is to head over to valuemd.com if you want to hear from current students. That forum is more frequented by carib students than this site's forum.

 

[Skip Intro]

You will never be able to practice in certain states if you go to St. Matthews. Plan your life accordingly.

-Skip

 

[PteFabulous]

What province are you from? It is very difficult to get into residency in Canada, much more so then the States. So when you go to a Caribbean school, you have to be okay with probably matching in the States, and it doesn't help you to go to a school where you are automatically not eligible to apply to certain states.

 

[rgguy19]

I'm not advocating for you to go to St. Matthews but I go there and just matched yesterday & I'll just share my experience. I think my class started with ~140 (this was a few years ago), but so many people drop or or take longer than the 4 years because they failed courses. The class sizes are def. smaller now (or so I've heard), but I have no idea by how much. So match lists having 150 people is a product of students who have fallen back or failed to match from previous years AND the fact that like all Caribbean medical schools, semesters start in Jan, May, & Aug compared to just one in US schools. I thought my education was pretty sufficient, but you do have to put a lot of work outside the classroom. When I did basic sciences, we took subject NBMEs after each course so we would be able to see how we compared to our US equivalents. Rotations were pretty easy to set up, although it does take some work to get them back to back without even just a few weeks or a month here and there. Lastly, I think the match list speaks for itself. If you have any questions, I'll answer honestly.

 

[Skip Intro]

St. Matthew's website gives only the 2013 Match list as most current posted there:

https://www.stmatthews.edu/alumni-residency-placement?id=196

And, for the record, I'd be pretty pissed if Ross had listed my name. Just not necessary.

-Skip

 

[piyalis]

I'm not advocating for you to go to St. Matthews but I go there and just matched yesterday & I'll just share my experience. I think my class started with ~140 (this was a few years ago), but so many people drop or or take longer than the 4 years because they failed courses. The class sizes are def. smaller now (or so I've heard), but I have no idea by how much. So match lists having 150 people is a product of students who have fallen back or failed to match from previous years AND the fact that like all Caribbean medical schools, semesters start in Jan, May, & Aug compared to just one in US schools. I thought my education was pretty sufficient, but you do have to put a lot of work outside the classroom. When I did basic sciences, we took subject NBMEs after each course so we would be able to see how we compared to our US equivalents. Rotations were pretty easy to set up, although it does take some work to get them back to back without even just a few weeks or a month here and there. Lastly, I think the match list speaks for itself. If you have any questions, I'll answer honestly.

Can you tell me more about the difficulty of classes, you say that many fail them, why? What do you mean by taking some work to get them back to back? What does that entail?

 

[piyalis]

St. Matthew's website gives only the 2013 Match list as most current posted there:

https://www.stmatthews.edu/alumni-residency-placement?id=196

And, for the record, I'd be pretty pissed if Ross had listed my name. Just not necessary.

-Skip

I'm considering applying to Smu and I want to know about their match list too! It seems like it's a great school, I've read some negativity, but after searching online I've found some success stories, so it can't be bad, right? Neha Kapil, Faculty at Rush-Copley Family Medicine Residency, Demetria Hernandez, Faculty at Weill Cornell Medical College, Sina Haeri, Assistant Professor at Baylor College of Medicine, Hamed Abbaszadegan and Nilda Franco, both Faculty at Banner Health Internal Medicine Residency, Asha Shajahan, Professor at Oakland University William Beaumont School of Medicine.

 

[DocBlin]

The real issue is not whether you can succeed by attending SMU, but if you can obtain a residency position... SMU's match lists from 2009 to 2013 (2014 not posted yet) is impressive with the #s matching. But those #s are not from one trimester class. They could be a combination of upto 5 trimester graduates. As I have written in other blogs, my son's 2006 SMU starting date class of 88 only matched approx 20+. So this "weeding out" process starts from day 1 at SMU. Passing all the courses, than the STEPS, than matching... is a very challenging course or mountain to climb. Few do accomplish that lofty goal while many many do not. That was a 2006 timeline. Today's is even more difficult. I might recommend in todays atmosphere think about DO schools or post bacc degrees to improve your stats. Offshore medical education for US students is soon to become a thing of the past, additional med and DO schools opening, not as many new residency positions opening, so at some point the #s of US MD/DO grads will = the # of residency openings/positions. Again this is my personal perspective. For me personally, my son has signed a very nice Urgent Care contract, starting in July 2014. As an US MD physician for over 40 years I see your concerns in attending off shore med schools in 2014. Good Luck in your pursuit....

 

[piyalis]

The real issue is not whether you can succeed by attending SMU, but if you can obtain a residency position... SMU's match lists from 2009 to 2013 (2014 not posted yet) is impressive with the #s matching. But those #s are not from one trimester class. They could be a combination of upto 5 trimester graduates. As I have written in other blogs, my son's 2006 SMU starting date class of 88 only matched approx 20+. So this "weeding out" process starts from day 1 at SMU. Passing all the courses, than the STEPS, than matching... is a very challenging course or mountain to climb. Few do accomplish that lofty goal while many many do not. That was a 2006 timeline. Today's is even more difficult. I might recommend in todays atmosphere think about DO schools or post bacc degrees to improve your stats. Offshore medical education for US students is soon to become a thing of the past, additional med and DO schools opening, not as many new residency positions opening, so at some point the #s of US MD/DO grads will = the # of residency openings/positions. Again this is my personal perspective. For me personally, my son has signed a very nice Urgent Care contract, starting in July 2014. As an US MD physician for over 40 years I see your concerns in attending off shore med schools in 2014. Good Luck in your pursuit....

I do not agree that Offshore medical education for US students is soon to become a thing of the past, and I think PRETTYBOYSWAG is right on the money:

"Not going to happen. First, most of the people applying to offshore schools will still be rejected by the newly opening medical schools because these are the applicants who tend to have lopsided resumes (high GPA, low MCAT vice versa). Thus, they will still apply to the Caribbean schools. As long as applications are sent in, the Caribbean schools will continue to accept and enroll students.

What happens 4 years later when these students graduate? Well the majority will apply to mid-low tier residencies, typically in primary care because the highly competitive specialties will be eaten up by the US graduates. The new US MDs will simply add to this competition for highly desired residencies. Even with the increased pool of US MDs, there will still be a need for primary care physicians. This is the reason that Caribbean schools were founded, and it will still hold true in the future. In fact, there is expected to be an even greater need for PCPs due to Obamacare reducing physician reimbursements.

Bottom line is, the Caribbean schools won't be closing by 2017."
PRETTYBOYSWAG, Dec 10, 2012

 

[piyalis]

As far as residencies, as a physician yourself, have you helped your son secure one due to your connections? Did your son want to go into Family Medicine or was he forced into it because he wasn't competitive for other specialties? Why didn't you (your son I mean consider DO schools? Why did you choose SMU over the other schools in the caribbean? If my parents were doctors, trust me I would not be going to the caribbean, I would've been schooled from day 1 on how to succeed and become a doctor. Attending off shore med schools in 2014 is not any different than 2006, I don't think. And it's not any easier to get into a US med school now than it was in the past, always has been competitive and always will be! So, you have to be sure that you will succeed, that you have what's necessary to succeed in med school (whether in the US, DO, or caribbean, it doesn't matter).

 

[DocBlin]

Thanks for the responses. As I stated the previous posting was from, "my personal perspective". Each person has their own reasons, as did my son, for going the caribbean route. In a nut shell he was to start dental school, did a 180 to medicine but was off cycle and did not desire to wait an additional year. You can not recall the 2006 era, but he was accepted off cycle to 2 English, one Irish, and 5 caribbean med schools (including the top 2). We visited them all and he decided upon SMU. His reasons were close to Miami (less than 90 minutes by air), knew recent graduates who were doing well, and the possible transfer after StepI. As for his May 2010 graduation from SMU, he matched prelim surgery. He was very successful being given a cat spot but his heart was in FM. He applied to 10 programs and pre matched to the one he is finishing at now, & has a contract for Urgent Care position. But today 2014, I see the recent matches at his residency are shifting towards US MD/DO so you all keep thinking the won't be an match issue when by 2017 there will be. The #s of "new" US grads will be approaching the #s of residency spots. Yes the competition for "all" spots is on. I know of 3 US MD grads who were at higher tier med schools, matched 3 to 4 levels below what they hoped for. My thoughts are just my viewing of the near future. Can you succeed at a off shore med school? today and in the future? Only time will tell. It was much easier before 2012..

 

[Skip Intro]

Hey, DocBlin. Your insights regarding your son are appreciated. However, here's some additional information regarding some perceptions in your post about the changes going on in residency appointments, which we covered in depth on this other thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/really-lost-need-advice.981187/#post-13848849

I invite you to read it from that point in the thread where it started, as it may have a different perspective than you currently do. Likewise, your assumptions seem to be predicated on the "nothing's going to change" principle regarding number of residency spots. The fact is there is a predicted massive doctor shortage in the U.S. over the next 20 years, and there will necessarily have to be something done to create more GME training spots, not less (or freezing them). Also, this year's Match added an additional 900 positions, and Caribbean grads fared about as well as they did last year.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uplo...ain-Residency-Match-Results-Press-Release.pdf

Likewise, my concern with schools like SMU is that kids will go there and then their life circumstances will change down the line. There are at least 9 or 10 states where they currently can't get a permanent medical license. This may affect life decisions that they cannot now foresee. Plan accordingly. That's my motto.

-Skip

 

[piyalis]

Likewise, my concern with schools like SMU is that kids will go there and then their life circumstances will change down the line. There are at least 9 or 10 states where they currently can't get a permanent medical license. This may affect life decisions that they cannot now foresee. Plan accordingly. That's my motto.

-Skip

I only know of California, Indiana, Kansas, and North Dakota, which other states am I not aware of?

 

[DocBlin]

Yes Skip Intro you are correct but I am still seeing the "swing" towards less US IMGs matching based upon slowly increasing #s of positions vs larger increasing #s of US MD/DO grads. At some point in time, I think sooner than later, these #s will equal. But as you said it is a waiting game in one of your earlier posts. I think we both agree to try and stay in US but as a last resort the caribbean route will still be there maybe.
As for additional states that SMU has "issues" with: Vermont, Tennessee, New Mexico, maybe Arkansas so the list is 7 to 10..

 

[Skip Intro]

I only know of California, Indiana, Kansas, and North Dakota, which other states am I not aware of?

Any medical board that maintains comity with California's board will refuse SMU graduates up and until California approves them. At that point, you will be able to get a license if you attended after that approval date. If you attended before, you will not be able to get a license unless you go back and re-take classes that were deemed deficient.

I don't make the rules. They don't have to make sense. This is how government works... or doesn't, as the case may be. Everything is black and white.

-Skip

 

[piyalis]

Any medical board that maintains comity with California's board will refuse SMU graduates up and until California approves them. At that point, you will be able to get a license if you attended after that approval date. If you attended before, you will not be able to get a license unless you go back and re-take classes that were deemed deficient.

I don't make the rules. They don't have to make sense. This is how government works... or doesn't, as the case may be. Everything is black and white.

-Skip

Who says the classes are "deficient"? What are you saying that California is not approving the school because their classes are "deficient"? Just because California doesn't approve it, doesn't mean it isn't a good school. I think people on this forum need to stop bashing this school.

"As for St. Matthews, I'm not sure exactly what the issue was with those particular medical boards. However, I vacationed in Grand Cayman recently and just happened to drive by their "campus"... which was in a building buried among many other businesses in an office park across the street from the Westin.

Not sure if this is part of the problem. There's probably more to it."

-Skip
Skip Intro,Sep 18, 2013

What's wrong with their "campus"? It's in a beautiful professional building on a beautiful well-developed island across the street from one of the world's most beautiful beaches! You're just jealous, you were probably hitting yourself in the head thinking why did I pay twice as much to go to a dump in a third world country, just so I can have the possibly to practice in California.

 

[Top Gun]

Who says the classes are "deficient"? What are you saying that California is not approving the school because their classes are "deficient"? Just because California doesn't approve it, doesn't mean it isn't a good school. I think people on this forum need to stop bashing this school.

"As for St. Matthews, I'm not sure exactly what the issue was with those particular medical boards. However, I vacationed in Grand Cayman recently and just happened to drive by their "campus"... which was in a building buried among many other businesses in an office park across the street from the Westin.

Not sure if this is part of the problem. There's probably more to it."

-Skip
Skip Intro,Sep 18, 2013

What's wrong with their "campus"? It's in a beautiful professional building on a beautiful well-developed island across the street from one of the world's most beautiful beaches! You're just jealous, you were probably hitting yourself in the head thinking why did I pay twice as much to go to a dump in a third world country, just so I can have the possibly to practice in California.

Sigh....

Nobody is bashing St. Matthew's, all right? Some of us don't even know if its a good school or not, because we've never studied there. But the fact is, a graduate from one of the big 4 schools (SGU, Ross, AUC, Saba) can get licensed in all fifty states, and an SMU grad cannot. I think there are at least 20 states an SMU grad is ineligible for licensure. Wouldn't it make more sense to go to a school where your options to practice aren't so limited? Carib grads have a tough time matching into residency as it is. Why make it even harder for yourself?

 

[Skip Intro]

Who says the classes are "deficient"? What are you saying that California is not approving the school because their classes are "deficient"? Just because California doesn't approve it, doesn't mean it isn't a good school. I think people on this forum need to stop bashing this school.

As I said, I don't make the rules. I have to play by them. This is not bashing. This finding of the California Medical Board, of which several other states maintain approval lists in comity with their board.

However, nothing in this section shall be construed to require the board to evaluate for equivalency any coursework obtained at a medical school disapproved by the board pursuant to this section.
...
In its discretion, the board may authorize an applicant who is deficient in any education or clinical instruction required by Sections 2089 and 2089.5 to make up any deficiencies as a part of his or her postgraduate training program, but that remedial training shall be in addition to the postgraduate training required for licensure.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=bpc&group=02001-03000&file=2100-2115

Again, this is legalese, not my words. You can look this up. And you should. It's hard to know where in life you may sail...

What's wrong with their "campus"? It's in a beautiful professional building on a beautiful well-developed island across the street from one of the world's most beautiful beaches! You're just jealous, you were probably hitting yourself in the head thinking why did I pay twice as much to go to a dump in a third world country, just so I can have the possibly to practice in California.

It's in an office park. It's not really a campus. Again, I said I don't know if this is a factor, as I clearly stated. But, many state medical boards require that a school actually be a school and on a campus with other certain requirements, like having a dedicated medical library with up-to-date medical journals (etc.) - all of which St. Matthews may already have.

Yes, Dominica is a third-world country. Show me anywhere on this forum where I've said otherwise and not advised students (or potential students) to consider this. A lot of people who started at Ross quite simply could not hack it, in larger part, because they couldn't stand the living conditions. I assure you that "jealousy" of living on Grand Cayman versus Dominica was never a consideration for me, but appears to belie some immature insecurity on your part. If I considered that paramount to my medical education, chance to place into a competitive residency in a lucrative field, and the temporary creature comforts of living on an island that I am now able to easily afford to travel to for vacation given my current lifestyle - at the expense of everything else including complete flexibility as to where I want to practice medicine - then, yes, I might have made the same choice as yourself.

-Skip

 

[drERMD]

This is in reply to original post. I am a 3rd semester student at St. Matthews and Im going to tell you exactly how it is down here. Im gonna break it down for you and mention everything regarding the school itself and campus and the island where its located. So starting with the school it self. DO NOT believe everything their website says. Its advertisement just like any other medical school out there. The class sizes here is small which is true but that does not mean you will get much help from the professors as you thin you may. My class size is about 30 students in total. Some professors will help you out of course because they want to educated their students but majority of them believe they are geniuses and do not care to help you at all. They will give you a billion powerpoint slides and tell you okay go learn it on your own and anything could be tested even if its not in our powerpoint or notes we given you (this happen all the time in this school) . They will literally try to fail 3/4 for the class so they could repeat the course next semester and this is very common in this school. They are known to do this so and make money from their students like this that is why they only accept about 30 students a semester because they will make the same amount as a school who accepts 100 students a semester. They accept 30 students and make them repeat a course or two each semester and they pretty much made the same amount of money from that student as if they were taking two students. If they notice that everyone in the course is doing really well by the time the drop deadline comes around, they will get all of the professors to create a un-passable exam so 95% of the class fails it and now they are failing the course and will have to repeat and pay again. Our final exams here are shelf exams just like any other medical school. Only thing is that here if we do not get a high score on our shelf then it will not be counted at all and we will get a zero for it and will automatically fail the course even if you are at an average of 90% before the shelf exam. So we will have to get a 70% on the shelf for it to just count into our final grades. You may think 70% is easy, but you have not seen the shelf yet. Also since our curriculum here is much faster than the ones in US and many other Caribbean medical schools, we end up taking shelf exams with material that has not even been taught to us yet and we just have to figure it out on our own. Many of our shelf exams had material from courses we haven't even taken yet because the exam the school distributes is for higher semester med students in US. So I guess in a way like someone on here says the school prepares you for your step exams is like 5% true. The school does not prepare you but you prepare yourself because you are always being tested on things you haven't seen yet and just need to study it on your own. To sum this up for academics pretty much if you have a great background in biology and physiology you will need to work hard but for anyone else you will need to work 10 times as hard compared to the normal medical student. The school will try to screw you and has been doing so for a long time because thats how they make their profit from only accepting like 30 students a semester compared to other schools that accept 100 students. Next is on to the interview for acceptance into this school. If you get an interview, the first question and most repeated question you will get is how are you going to pay for the school? They do not offer loans to students and are not government funded so you will need to pay out of pocket and they want to know upfront right away. They want to know where you are getting the money from and if you can afford all your years there. So first question is how will you pay for this and if you tell them oh I'll be paying with my own money or my parents will pay for it from theirs, they you are golden and will get accepted for sure. That is all they really care for. Next topic is accreditation. The school is accredited in NY and FL. Which means you will not have a problem doing rotations in those states. Accreditation does not mean you can't do your residency and such there. Its only for rotations. We had the clinical department come to campus and discuss with us about the rotations and when we asked them questions regarding rotations and can we do it all in one location in these states they said maybe and maybe not...its like if you get lucky to do it then you may be able to. They were like you will pretty much be doing a lot of traveling between rotations to different locations unless you want to wait months for it to open up there. So pretty much don't listen to what the website says its completely different from what actually goes on down here. Next topic would be the campus itself. The campus is in grand cayman and its not actually owned by the school but rented from a company that is why we haven't been accredited yet in many other states. The island is pretty safe and people are friendly but be ready to spend big money when you get here because everything is like triple the price to wherever you are coming from. They have pretty much everything that is the same as back in states or Canada but just way more expensive. Regarding tuition for now it has increased an extra $1000 this year and they sent us an email that it will increase $1000 every fall semester to accommodate for educational expenses. So pretty much they will be increasing costs every year while failing many students. There is currently only 110 of us on campus now and they will try their hardest to make majority of us repeat classes each semester so they will make a profit from us because we told them in our interviews that we can afford it. At the moment I am deciding of transferring out of here. I currently haven't had to repeat anything yet but the amount of work I put into my studies to barely just pass is unbelievable. My recommendation for you is to try another Caribbean school if you can. You will make a big mistake and will cost you lots of money. I seen many of my classmates here go through it and pay so much for repeating classes that its ridiculous. Many professors of the great professors have left the school to teach at other schools because they didn't like the way the school was begin ran. If you are looking to practice in California, then do not attend here because we are banned from California due to not being accredited the first time and then the owner at the time sued California for not accrediting SMU and California banned us for accreditation for good. If you are accepted into another school then definitely attend it and avoid SMU seriously you will not regret avoiding this school. When we got here like a year ago the first thing they told us is don't listen to what people are saying on those forums about our school they are just upset because they were not accepted here and wanted to bash the school...so I listened to them and really ignored what people said but now looking back they were absolutely right about every single thing they mentioned. So thats about it. This is advice coming from a current student so listen well and make your decision as you wish. Good luck with everything.

 

[DocBlin]

drERMD; Nice post but even under an assumed name you need to be concerned the St Matts Gestapo might find you out. I wonder why stay in this situation and not transfer out or start over in US/Do med schools. You only would lose time plus you might have a leg up on MD1's. Things change as I have stated in previous posts. SMU was having between 80 to hundreds matriculate in the mid 2000's (2005 to 2010). But no loans, less potential match #'s, costs have not only dampened SMU but most caribbean med schools. I again believe it will only become more difficult. Understand as 'Skip Intro' says it is their rules and we all must play by them (paraphrasing Skip). Going the IMG route is a 'major' weeding out process. Gaining an acceptance is easy but finishing the required obstacles as the required courses, the Steps, clinical rotations to obtain the MD degree is the first major hurdle. Than the passing of Step I, II k, II s with good scores is next. The third trail is obtaining interviews for residency than matching. YES matching that most stress rewarding process, but that is the most difficult hurdle. After starting the residency than Step III, passing the boards, obtaining a license to practice medicine in your chosen state, are all the final things to over come. NOT! You still need to start a practice or find employment. But all in all medicine is a wonderful life that we all should appreciate. Look into yourself and see if you still have that burning desire to be a 'DOCTOR'. Than either correct your situation or prove them wrong!

 

[Skip Intro]

Uggh... drERMD. Paragraphs. Please. Let me first re-post what you said (verbatim, italicized, and with appropriate paragraph breaks) and then respond.

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This is in reply to original post.

I am a 3rd semester student at St. Matthews and Im going to tell you exactly how it is down here. Im gonna break it down for you and mention everything regarding the school itself and campus and the island where its located.

So starting with the school it self. DO NOT believe everything their website says. Its advertisement just like any other medical school out there. The class sizes here is small which is true but that does not mean you will get much help from the professors as you thin you may. My class size is about 30 students in total.

Some professors will help you out of course because they want to educated their students but majority of them believe they are geniuses and do not care to help you at all. They will give you a billion powerpoint slides and tell you okay go learn it on your own and anything could be tested even if its not in our powerpoint or notes we given you (this happen all the time in this school) . They will literally try to fail 3/4 for the class so they could repeat the course next semester and this is very common in this school. They are known to do this so and make money from their students like this that is why they only accept about 30 students a semester because they will make the same amount as a school who accepts 100 students a semester. They accept 30 students and make them repeat a course or two each semester and they pretty much made the same amount of money from that student as if they were taking two students.

If they notice that everyone in the course is doing really well by the time the drop deadline comes around, they will get all of the professors to create a un-passable exam so 95% of the class fails it and now they are failing the course and will have to repeat and pay again. Our final exams here are shelf exams just like any other medical school. Only thing is that here if we do not get a high score on our shelf then it will not be counted at all and we will get a zero for it and will automatically fail the course even if you are at an average of 90% before the shelf exam. So we will have to get a 70% on the shelf for it to just count into our final grades. You may think 70% is easy, but you have not seen the shelf yet.

Also since our curriculum here is much faster than the ones in US and many other Caribbean medical schools, we end up taking shelf exams with material that has not even been taught to us yet and we just have to figure it out on our own. Many of our shelf exams had material from courses we haven't even taken yet because the exam the school distributes is for higher semester med students in US.

So I guess in a way like someone on here says the school prepares you for your step exams is like 5% true. The school does not prepare you but you prepare yourself because you are always being tested on things you haven't seen yet and just need to study it on your own.

To sum this up for academics pretty much if you have a great background in biology and physiology you will need to work hard but for anyone else you will need to work 10 times as hard compared to the normal medical student. The school will try to screw you and has been doing so for a long time because thats how they make their profit from only accepting like 30 students a semester compared to other schools that accept 100 students.

Next is on to the interview for acceptance into this school. If you get an interview, the first question and most repeated question you will get is how are you going to pay for the school? They do not offer loans to students and are not government funded so you will need to pay out of pocket and they want to know upfront right away. They want to know where you are getting the money from and if you can afford all your years there. So first question is how will you pay for this and if you tell them oh I'll be paying with my own money or my parents will pay for it from theirs, they you are golden and will get accepted for sure. That is all they really care for.

Next topic is accreditation. The school is accredited in NY and FL. Which means you will not have a problem doing rotations in those states. Accreditation does not mean you can't do your residency and such there. Its only for rotations. We had the clinical department come to campus and discuss with us about the rotations and when we asked them questions regarding rotations and can we do it all in one location in these states they said maybe and maybe not...its like if you get lucky to do it then you may be able to. They were like you will pretty much be doing a lot of traveling between rotations to different locations unless you want to wait months for it to open up there.

So pretty much don't listen to what the website says its completely different from what actually goes on down here.

Next topic would be the campus itself. The campus is in grand cayman and its not actually owned by the school but rented from a company that is why we haven't been accredited yet in many other states. The island is pretty safe and people are friendly but be ready to spend big money when you get here because everything is like triple the price to wherever you are coming from. They have pretty much everything that is the same as back in states or Canada but just way more expensive.

Regarding tuition for now it has increased an extra $1000 this year and they sent us an email that it will increase $1000 every fall semester to accommodate for educational expenses. So pretty much they will be increasing costs every year while failing many students. There is currently only 110 of us on campus now and they will try their hardest to make majority of us repeat classes each semester so they will make a profit from us because we told them in our interviews that we can afford it.

At the moment I am deciding of transferring out of here. I currently haven't had to repeat anything yet but the amount of work I put into my studies to barely just pass is unbelievable. My recommendation for you is to try another Caribbean school if you can. You will make a big mistake and will cost you lots of money. I seen many of my classmates here go through it and pay so much for repeating classes that its ridiculous.

Many professors of the great professors have left the school to teach at other schools because they didn't like the way the school was begin ran. If you are looking to practice in California, then do not attend here because we are banned from California due to not being accredited the first time and then the owner at the time sued California for not accrediting SMU and California banned us for accreditation for good. If you are accepted into another school then definitely attend it and avoid SMU seriously you will not regret avoiding this school.

When we got here like a year ago the first thing they told us is don't listen to what people are saying on those forums about our school they are just upset because they were not accepted here and wanted to bash the school...so I listened to them and really ignored what people said but now looking back they were absolutely right about every single thing they mentioned.

So thats about it. This is advice coming from a current student so listen well and make your decision as you wish. Good luck with everything.

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[Skip Intro]

drERMD,

I will say this: there were a lot of Ross fail-outs populating the forums a dozen years ago who said similar things about the professors stacking the deck against the students. While what you say may be true at SMU, the bottom line is that it was not true at Ross and typically only from the people who couldn't hack the material who then went on the forums to lash out. I never failed a course at Ross. The tests were hard. Sometimes the information on the tests did not seem like it was necessarily covered in class, but I never had (for example) a Pharm question on a Path test. The material is hard. This is medical school, after all.

I think the bigger take-home message in your post is the regulatory problems you may face if you choose this program. I can only say this over and over and over again: make sure whichever school you choose is going to provide you a pathway to permanent licensure in the state you ultimately want to practice in.

Good luck. I hope everything works out for you.

-Skip

 

[iBellai]

Uggh... drERMD. Paragraphs. Please. Let me first re-post what you said (verbatim, italicized, and with appropriate paragraph breaks) and then respond.

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@skip you are a very patient man!

 

[drcrispmd]

I only know of California, Indiana, Kansas, and North Dakota, which other states am I not aware of?

Tennessee as well. SMU grads can do residency in TN but not get licensed after residency. There are more that I have heard from SMU grads, but can't remember.

 

[Medman2013]

I am Canadian and currently a 3rd year student at SMU. I can tell you with 100% honesty that the peolpe posting negative comments about the school are either 1. Not students there so how can they judge it or 2. Were too lazy to study so they failed out. If you are willing to study hard and take medical school seriously, this is a great school. Of my entire class, the lowest step 1 grade that I have heard of is a 217, with an average of about 225 and a high of 256. At my last rotation, 2 of the surgical residents were former SMU students. Bottom line is, if you are motivated, work hard and not an idiot- SMU is a great choice. Feel free to send me messages if you have questions.

 

[gyngyn]

Feel free to send me messages if you have questions.

How many people started with you as MS 1's?

 

[Euclid]

Why St. Mathews? They are California disapproved. SMU, MUA, and Saba are owned by the same company. Why go to the worst of the three?

 

[Medman2013]

How many people started with you as MS 1's?

I was in the January intake and we started with about 35. I will be honest, this is not the same amount that made it all the way through. But this is because people have this idea that getting into Med School is the difficult part (which is the case with the US, but not the Carribean), and then once they get to the island they don't study. So many students get to the island and all they do is party, so they fail out -> then come on to these websites and write a ****ty review about the school. I have never met a successful student at my school that has complained about it. Work hard = Good Step score = Good residency.

 

[Medman2013]

Why St. Mathews? They are California disapproved. SMU, MUA, and Saba are owned by the same company. Why go to the worst of the three?

Personally I chose SMU because I have a friend who got his MD through SMU and spoke highly of it. I also had family friends who lived on the island. Cayman does not have any of the 3rd world problems that some of the other Caribbean countries have. I'm not insulting any of ROSS, St. Georges, AUC, SABA etc. because I have never been there. Honestly, it was the only school I applied to and I have never looked back. It might be easier to get into that other schools (ROSS, St, Georges) but I guarantee it is not less difficult. SMU prides themselves on there Step 1 success and consequently they make sure every person who gets to that level is well prepared. Unfortunately, this means a lot of lazy/non-committed people fail. And they blame the school and post on this site. Bottom line- med school is not easy and if you don't pass, it is your fault.

At no point in my clinical rotations have I felt less prepared than any of the ROSS/AUC students that I was with.

 

[gyngyn]

I was in the January intake and we started with about 35. I will be honest, this is not the same amount that made it all the way through. But this is because people have this idea that getting into Med School is the difficult part (which is the case with the US, but not the Carribean), and then once they get to the island they don't study. So many students get to the island and all they do is party, so they fail out -> then come on to these websites and write a ****ty review about the school. I have never met a successful student at my school that has complained about it. Work hard = Good Step score = Good residency.

How many matched?

 

[muqalia]

When your a foreign grad, life is gonna be tougher come match date when compared to US grads. If your school is not accredited in some of the biggest states your path to matching becomes that much harder. I understand many will attend schools like SMU because its cheaper and/or may have a friend from SMU that has matched. For those that wish to attend, I suggest you look over the advice of those that have done this before you and see what they think. Don't get wrapped up in stories where individuals have matched. True it is possible but most of those individuals have had to overcome huge obstacles and have beat the odds. Stick with the schools where your chance of matching is highest and schools that are accredited in all states. Funny things happen in life and who knows which states your destiny lies in.

 

[roadlesstraveledmd]

Hi all,

I was hoping to look for some first hand knowledge regarding St. Matthews. So, I know it isn't one of the "big 4" and that it's not fully accredited in all 50 US states. But there are some attractive things I have found about this school, so I was hoping to learn more from former students or anyone else who has researched the issue. I have a friend studying there right now and he is loving it. He said they prepare you really well for the step exams (he scored 95th percentile on step 1), the small class sizes are great (~50) so all the profs know you by name and there are some good hospitals for clinical core rotations. And the Country seems like the safest and easiest to travel to, plus it is WAY cheaper than SGU. Also, the matching spots didn't look so bad either. Internal at Mayo, Neurosurgery, general surgery at Cleveland Clinic, etc.

For those that have studied there, were you able to do all your clinical core rotations at one hospital and was the decision in your hands? If I went, I would really like to do them all at Mt Sinai in Chicago so that I could hope to land a residency in peds there.

What were the glaring negatives? Were clinical rotations as disorganized as some people have led me to believe?

I am a practicing physician and a graduate of SMU. My advise to you is do not go to ANY FMG school that is not recognized by the state of California. It will cause licensing issues as I had to hire a lawyer and still had problems. My preparation was dismal at best but that was a decade plus ago. My advice to you is get the extra masters degree or retake the MCAT if you have to t get into a US school, if not go with SGU, SABA, or one that is recognized in CA as many licensing boards use this they don't want to visit every school.